Five Years In: Grade Marc Bergevin

[Jim Bauch]

Seems they've been asking this question lately on Montreal 690 radio, so I thought I'd open a discussion here.

Positives:

With the exception of the 2015-16 debacle, the team has been competitive and worth watching during his tenure. However, this is mitigated somewhat by the fact that the key components (Price, Max, Galy, Gallagher, Subban, Markov) were already here when he took over.

Generally restored a sense of professionalism and dignity after the weirdness of the Gauthier regime. Not much in the way of leaks or internal chaos.

Seems to have a vision for the team that guides his moves; even if I often disagree with that vision, there is something to be said for a coherent approach.

Contract signings have generally been reasonable. The Plekanec and Emelin deals were a little generous, but not outright cap-killers, and they're the worst of the bunch.

Has avoided panic deals, especially at the trade deadline where prices tend to get high.

The "Bargain Basement" thing is actually a sensible approach. If you fill gaps with relatively cheap players, you can afford to have a low success rate, because the occasional successes (Byron, Radulov) outweigh the rather minimal consequences of cutting loose a bunch of low-paid "failures."

Willingness to cut loose underperforming players.

Negatives:

I think his overall vision is fundamentally wrong. If you gave me the guy who is arguably the world's best goaltender, I would try to build a run and gun team, dare teams to get into 40-40 shots on goal games, confident that my goalie can bail me out more often than theirs does, rather than play ultraconservative and get into 20-20 shots on goal games. Of course, pretty much 100% of NHL GMs seem to think Bergy's approach is best, so I don't count this factor for much.

The Subban file. From the arbitration fiasco to siding with his idiot coach over his superstar defenseman, to the Weber trade, Bergevin just decided that Subban wasn't his kind of guy and thereby mismanaged and squandered a key asset.

A clear impression that he is playing favorites on a personal level. Evidenced by the treatment of Subban, but also his excessive loyalty to Therrien among others.

Smug arrogance. His condescending answers in press conferences about how it's really really hard to find good players. The foxhole nonsense. I don't weigh this factor much since it's more of a personal irritant than something actually affects the team on the ice.

A failure to develop young talent. Possibly the most damning of them all. This was supposed to be the breakout year for Galchenyuk and Beaulieu; in some ways it still was for Galy, who put up good numbers over the season, but he spend parts of the playoffs on the 4th line. Beaulieu went from the #1 pairing to being a healthy scratch in the playoffs, and is presumed to be on his way out of town. I suppose we can declare Lehkonen a success story, but the rest of the pipeline isn't looking like much -- we'll have to see if Shipachev and/or Juulsen can make the jump to the NHL level. And the apparent unwillingness to make any kind of change at the AHL level suggests that MB thinks everything is A-OK on this front.

Overall Grade: B. Maybe that's a little generous on my part given the above analysis, but I want to keep things in perspective. You can do worse as a GM -- and the Habs have, with Houle and Gauthier. I might put Gainey on a par with Bergevin, and in fairness to Bergy, none of his moves were as bad as the Gomez trade.

Jim

[Gerry]

I don't feel like I can do this justice atm, but despite that, here goes.

Grade: F

Yes, get the grade out of the way off the top. The Habs have gone nowhere important, haven't won anything, don't seem to be poised to do so, have more questions than answers for the immediate future. I can't come up with any reasons to think the next 5 years will offer any improvement over the last 5. I stopped caring about the team. What bigger indictment could I really offer? I poured my heart and soul into the team for 30+ years, and now I follow them mechanically out of habit, but frankly could not give the proverbial rat's ass if they win or lose anymore.

Is Marc Bergevin solely to blame for this? I don't know. He didn't avert it, in any case. He kept an incompetent coach on waaaay too long. Sure, now they appear to have a competent coach for the next 5 years. What took him so long? But they also seem poised to have an inferior roster.

It is true that I like the Bargain Bin approach. I like low-risk accumulation of "bargain" players, and Jim pretty much nailed the reasons for why I think this is a good approach in general for NHL teams. You may or may not "win", but you basically lose nothing.

But that cannot be all you're good at if you want to avoid the "F".

I feel like I would absolutely despise Marc Bergevin in person. His smugness and alpha-persona may have seemed charming at first in relation to Gauthier, but it's pretty clear he's mostly a poseur. He thinks he's smart and funny, but we've seen enough to know that he's not really all that he thinks he is.

The front office is bloated with nepotism. The AHL staff has performed abysmally and development has suffered.

The Subban file could have warranted an "F" grade all on its own, but is relegated instead to basically just a line item in the litany.

Bergevin inherited the best goalie in the world, a bunch of top talent, and... has done absolutely nothing to build on it. He shuffled deck chairs in the bottom-6 for 5 years, and he's in serious danger of hitting an iceberg soon if any of those top players drops off further. His best goalie in the world is UFA after next season. He traded his Norris d-man. His top-5 scoring winger captain has more question marks than the Riddler atm. If he can't re-sign the miracle find of Radulov...??! The ship could sink pretty fast. There isn't much of a prospect pipeline set up to pump out the inrushing waters. They could sink like a stone in the Atlantic as soon as next season.

So... yeah, it's an "F". That team should have been ready to go somewhere, and even though all is not totally lost, those 5 years for sure are. Bergevin has been a failure so far. He'll get the next 5 years to try to turn things around, though, I have no doubt of that.

l8r,
Gerry

[Nyssa]

I'd go with a C minus. There are a lot of problems and very
few upsides that can be attributed to MB's tenure.

All the stuff you mentioned PLUS:

The John Scott incident. MB was a willing participant in
an event that was not only an embarrassment to the NHL,
but specifically to the two teams involved in what amounted
to a cover-up.

The lack of a solid development system. Just moving the
AHL team from city to city doesn't address the basic problem
of a lack of a coach capable of developing the talent
in the farm system. The coach there is simply not capable
of doing the job and should have been replaced long ago.

The pukey power play and the assistant coach in charge of
said pukey power play. There was some improvement being
seen once CJ took over, but it was only a glimmer and took
until the playoff games to be seen. Why didn't MB see what
was obvious and replace the PP coach long before CJ came?
Because he was one of the good old Foxhole boys, just like
MT had been.

The mishandling of my pet and other young players by MT
that went on way too long. How many of the prospects that
came to the team might have had a better chance to develop
under a coach who didn't use bullying and demeaning to
"inspire" or was intolerant of mistakes that are part of
the natural development of young players coming into the
NHL? It was MB's coach and it's his to own.

Credit where due for Radulov. But there have been many other
bargain finds that simply didn't work out and took up a
roster spot that could have been taken by one of the kids,
again assuming a coach was in place who knew how to teach
and develop said kids.

BTW has anyone heard of any new contract talks with Radulov?
Is something being discussed, or is MB just twiddling his
thumbs waiting until the last minute while other GMs
(especially in Vegas) are using their sharp pencils to
determine what will fit in their caps to be ready on July
1st?

I have no idea about his personality up close, so I'll
pass on comments about that beyond the obvious one that
he is loath to admit a mistake and then do something to
fix it. I cost us another year and a half with MT that
then wasted development time and burned time in the Carey
Price contract window.

There's more, but I'm still groggy from staying up to
listen to the Oilers' demise at the hands of the Ducks.
I really wanted the Ducks to crash and burn in Game 7,
but now I'm hoping that the Preds take 'em out instead.
(Go PK!)

Nyssa, who was also very amused at the Caps' regularly
scheduled choke last night

[Chuck]

I would rate his grade as incomplete/fail. MT was the wrong coach for this team. The players did not fit thier planned stupid system. Wasn't really a team system, just an over reliance on one player to stop all the pucks. Changing just one key player in order to fit that lame system was stupid as the problems ran a lot deeper. Sure a veteran team got them a great start. Would have worked had the season been a short 100m dash instead of a marathon! The team ended the season sucking wind while the other team's who may have started slow, ended the season with a sprint. They had too many players who were expected to produce despite despite the lack of chemistry with linemates. They had too many players who disappeared for excessive number of games despite the multi season history of repeat performances MB did little to fix the problem. His trade deadline idea of quantity instead of quality drove his roster moves was a waste (exception being getting rid of DD). No transition plan between the AHL and NHL just sink or swim playing with illmatched linemates or zero patience for developing . chemistry. Always revert back to stone handed veterans, with the misguided hope the results would be different then the last few times. Clinching a playoff position later in the season and going out in the 1st round would count as a learning experience for a young team building for the future. Doing the same thing with a veteran laden team, veterans whose retirements are on the horizon just rewards the team with a crappy draft selection. Worst still if the team is aging out faster then the development can replace them. The Leafs had no problem getting 10 rookies into the line up compared to 1! For the Habs, even he wasn't a regular until the season was more then half over. I do not trust MB to make the core shaking moves required to fix this team. Tweaking will just extend the pain

[Mike]

Mike's performance review with Marc Bergevin

Scale is 1-5.
1-Excellent,beyond expectations 2- Exceeded some expectations, met all
others 3- acceptable, met expectations 4- below expectations needs short
term focus and improvement 5 failure, needs immediate and urgent improvement

1. Current year performance - 3
The team suffered mightily again this year but Bergy recognized the need
to make a change and the change seemed to have some success. However,
this is tempered with the idea that the same thing happened last year

2. Young Player development - 5
Too many young players under-performing, traded or never even making it
to the NHL. This is your focus for the next 4 months. I want to know
what has been put in place to ensure this is corrected. If its new
scouts, AHL coaches or whatever. I want to see a plan.

3. Scoring - 4 Its been a repeating problem for the entirety of your 5
years and last year had we had even a slight improvement in this during
the first round, we'd likely still be playing hockey.

4 Centre position - 5 - Tired of the excuses that its hard - so is my
shit sometimes but I have to struggle to get on with it anyway. Same
with you - fix it.

5. Defence/Goalies - 2. Fine job

6. Coaching 4 - good coach in place, took too long to make a decision,
sticking with coaching staff too long

7.Trades - 3 - doing a good job generally - PK/Weber still a wash for me

8 AHL Performance - 5 - no excuses - need immediate plans and
improvements. Also need proper direction.

Overall - 3.9 - Marc needs immediate improvement in several areas,
employee is placed on the PIP program - Personal Improvement Program and
is placed on probation. Monthly follow-ups to be scheduled.

[Jim Bauch]

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 6:25:24 AM UTC-7, Nyssa wrote:
> The John Scott incident. MB was a willing participant in
> an event that was not only an embarrassment to the NHL,
> but specifically to the two teams involved in what amounted
> to a cover-up.

Oh, geez -- I can't believe I forgot about that! Yeah, that one made me embarrassed to be a Habs fan. There's more to being a "classy" organization than just having nice pre-game ceremonies.

Jim

[Jim Bauch]

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 5:23:14 PM UTC-7, Gerry wrote:
> I don't feel like I can do this justice atm, but despite that, here goes.
>
> Grade: F
>
> Yes, get the grade out of the way off the top. The Habs have gone nowhere important, haven't won anything, don't seem to be poised to do so, have more questions than answers for the immediate future. I can't come up with any reasons to think the next 5 years will offer any improvement over the last 5. I stopped caring about the team. What bigger indictment could I really offer? I poured my heart and soul into the team for 30+ years, and now I follow them mechanically out of habit, but frankly could not give the proverbial rat's ass if they win or lose anymore.
>

Yeah, my grade was an attempt on my part to try to be objective and put my personal feelings aside. I'm in the same boat as you -- I didn't bother getting the Center Ice package this year, which meant I hardly saw any Habs games until the playoffs, and I didn't miss them. And I'm probably more depressed about the team's future than I was even in the depths of the late 90s/early 00s when Sergei Zholtok was our #1 center. This current team will probably make the playoffs again next year, but "pray that Price steals four series in a row" isn't much of a plan. And it looks like a steady decline after that as the core ages and the prospects are minimal. Perhaps more importantly, they're just not fun to watch most nights, even when they're winning. Any player who shows signs of flash and creativity has it wrung out of him, or is chased out of town.

Jim

[Jim Bauch]

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 8:41:05 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> Mike's performance review with Marc Bergevin

Mike, we disagree on the Weber trade, but otherwise I think yours is a solid evaluation. Though the corporate-speak gives me hives.

Jim

[Mike]

:-) I thought someone would appreciate that

[Gerry]

And so I don't think I can muster anything but an "F". The team is listless, uninteresting, and it actually seems to have reached that state by design. Who is the designer? Yeah, the guy who gets the "F". They're not dysfunctionally bad or anything. Now that Therrien is gone, there isn't glaring incompetence. They're just boring. It seems like a team of grinders, run by grinders, who have some of that old school hockey mythology so deeply embedded in the fabric of their being that they simply can't see things any other way. They're behind the times, and it's not going to get any easier for them the further behind they get. And so, in addition to being uninteresting in the present tense, there isn't really even any reason to hope for change or progression or anything else to offset the current state.

If I was Carey Price, I'd be asking them to fill the back of my F150 with gold, else I'm gone. He should be shooting north of $10M per. If the master plan is for him to win them four series singlehandedly, why not?

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

I see little upside having a front office bloated with retired hockey veterans who worship the culture you speak of. Former players more skilled at trying to give veterans another shot, then being effective at finding hidden talent that is looking at getting at getting their 1st shot at the NHL. I prefer the Pollock type of GM who had little if any ties to players along with no sentiment when they needed to be traded, demoted, waived or released. Too many players having careers extended due more to tenure then talent. I thought the cap would have pushed more of them out, unfortunately there are too many teams still willing to pay them for a level of skills they can rarely sustain

[offd...@gmail.com]

So, long time lurker but just had to weigh in on this one.
Most GM's get 3 - 5 years to show results and achieve some measure of success. If you consider making the playoff's a measure of success then yes MB has achieved that, but if you consider where/what he started with and where the team has progressed to in 5 years then it is no longer a measure of progression but one of stagnation. It's this fact alone that says F to me. You add on the MT debacle and PK trade and it's we need a new GM.
I agree with the good/bad you have already identified and it has taken me from an MB supporter to a this team wont make it to the next level if he remains. His biggest weakness appears to be his lack of flexibility. He gets a path and dogs it even when all the data points to a change, examples being, MT, DD, not recognizing what he had with PK and one of worse ones, the lack of growth from the AHL. Bergermiester just keeps doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, hmmm, isn't that an example of something...

[Gerry]

There has been a loooooong time available to be a long time lurker! :)

But that's a great assessment, I'd say. It's stagnation that is the real problem. The team has accumulated X-hundred points over those 5 years, and whatever that number X is, it's probably in the top-N of the NHL (where N probably looks like a pretty good number - Bergevin would probably like to quote it in his post-season press conference).

But nothing has really progressed. And the kiss of death is that there isn't really any indication that progression is imminent. There aren't tons of good young players who look ready to break out, there isn't a farm system brimming with top prospects. Sure there are *some* good youngsters around and on the way (I really like Lehkonen). But every team has *some*. You need to have LOTS to really get a good optimism going.

And until the team gets the Price and Radulov situations sorted out, you can even imagine it being on the brink of a collapse. The team can't score it's way out of a wet paper bag, and losing Radulov would be a big setback.

You don't have to fall off very far these days for it to seem like a disaster. The Habs finished #1 in their division with 103 pts. And Tampa Bay missed the playoffs with 94... just a 9-pt swing. 4 wins and a tie. The non-playoff teams are going to be pushing hard to step up. The Habs can't afford to lose a single step, yet it seems like a definite risk.

I don't get a sense that they even perceive the risk, really?

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

I think his lack of flexibility may come from the front office staff he surrounded himself with. Does he need a consensus from his group before making moves?

[Gerry]

I can imagine all his ex-players and macho men basically being an echo chamber that doesn't really affect much. Who knows. The advanced stats kid who didn't like the idea of the Subban trade sure didn't survive long.

l8r,
Gerry