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Go get em PK

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mike

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May 7, 2017, 9:11:00 PM5/7/17
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You deserve a Stanley Cup and I can't wait to see you with it in Montreal. Ram it down their fucking throats and don't feel one bit ashamed to do so.

Jim Bauch

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May 7, 2017, 9:16:36 PM5/7/17
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On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 6:11:00 PM UTC-7, mike wrote:
> You deserve a Stanley Cup and I can't wait to see you with it in Montreal. Ram it down their fucking throats and don't feel one bit ashamed to do so.

Nothing against Shea Weber, who seems like a fine guy and did everything the Habs could reasonably have expected him to do, but I do relish the irony that the Predators have gone farther with the supposed dressing room cancer and unreliable showboat P.K. than they did with the supposed greatest leader-y leader who ever led.

Jim

Chuck

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May 7, 2017, 10:56:40 PM5/7/17
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Nashville seems to be a team that values an active defence playing offence during equal strength or PP. While Montreal views an active defence pushing offence during equal strength as a capital offence.

Nyssa

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May 8, 2017, 8:44:13 AM5/8/17
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Yeppers, GO PK!

As for Weber, I pity the guy since he was thrust into a
situation that was a no-win for him no matter what he did
on the team. Not his fault at all. He's a very good
defenseman, a very good leader, but the sparkle and dash
that was PK simply couldn't be replaced with the fans.

He did the best he could do in a touchy situation, so he
deserves a lot of credit for getting through it with his
honor intact.

If the Oilers manage to win Game 7 and advance, it's really
a laugh that little DD will be part of the push against
the Preds. He didn't do much in the pile-on the Oilers
did to the Ducks last night, so maybe his star is shining
a bit less with the coach and fans as his true weaknesses
start showing more.

It should be a VERY good series either way.

Pluck the Ducks! Go Oilers!

And a big high five to PK for the next round. Rest up,
because you're going to have your hands full coming up.

Nyssa, who now needs the Pens to kick the Caps' butt tonight

Nyssa

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May 8, 2017, 8:46:50 AM5/8/17
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And it's obvious which works and which doesn't.

GO PK!

Nyssa, who wonders what scheduling genius has us waiting until
Wednesday for the next Western Conference game

Gerry

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May 8, 2017, 8:52:50 AM5/8/17
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I wonder if any of the teams advancing to the final four will share the Habs' philosophy. The Rangers were probably closest, although they've had to open it up against the Sens at times, and also haven't received the goaltending they did in Round 1. The Ducks might be, although they have some heavier players and incredibly superior centers. If the Pens, Oilers, Sens, and Preds are going through, that's a lot of teams with more active D, eschewing the conservative risk-averse style.

l8r,
Gerry

Gerry

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May 8, 2017, 8:57:19 AM5/8/17
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On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 8:44:13 AM UTC-4, Nyssa wrote:

> As for Weber, I pity the guy since he was thrust into a
> situation that was a no-win for him no matter what he did
> on the team. Not his fault at all. He's a very good
> defenseman, a very good leader, but the sparkle and dash
> that was PK simply couldn't be replaced with the fans.

And only 9 more years on Weber's contract. I think we all like the guy, but there may be some discomfort at some point as the realization of just what the Habs did there sets in on more fronts.

l8r,
Gerry




Chuck

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May 8, 2017, 9:16:40 AM5/8/17
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Montreal's approach from the blue line created a logjam of players in front of the net where othe then Weber shots from the point were rarely a threat, and rarely on net. Even with Weber, without the extra space on a PP, they couldn't make his shot a more frequent threat while at equal strength. Plus the poor shooting from the other defence, made the Weber route to the net too predictable. While Nashville's defence across the board was effective at putting the puck on net. Sure there is a higher threat of a blue line turnover, but it pulls the opposition away from the net creating more room for Nashville forwards, more laneways to the net and a less predictable amount of perimeter passing. What did Montreal do to break the pattern? Every once in awhile they'd get away with using the backdoor play

Jim Bauch

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May 8, 2017, 12:42:41 PM5/8/17
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I've now forgotten where I saw it -- maybe at Habs Eyes on the Prize -- but someone recently wrote an article along the lines of "don't worry, Habs fans who want a complete rebuild: you'll get it soon enough!" The idea being that, with Weber's deal, and Price and Pacioretty due for new contracts soon, the Habs will have a lot of cap space committed to an aging core of players. You can ask the Canucks what that looks like.

Jim

Gerry

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May 8, 2017, 3:51:51 PM5/8/17
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As usual a lot will depend on what they can pull off in the way of player development in the meantime. From where we are sitting, it probably doesn't look super-optimistic - the prospect pipeline doesn't scream out in abundance.

But that said, it's not always evident what the pipeline truly holds. Folks would probably peg the Habs' prospect list in the bottom third of the league, in general. But if you actually did get Sergachev emerging as a top-pairing, defender, if Juulsen landed as a solid citizen, somebody else stepped up and surprised (the new Jerabek?), if they kept Beaulieu and he progressed... well, the D could find itself somewhat secure, with the crusty veteran leadership of Weber to anchor them. Then I actually like the goaltending pipeline with Lindgren, McNiven, and even Fucale. Up front... much dicier to distill optimism, but let's say they kept Radulov long-term and he stayed good, if Lehkonen keeps getting better, Galchenyuk blossoms more fully, and... some other guys exceed expectations... it would have been nice to land even a 30-year old Shipachyov of course... but there could be other diamonds lurking in the rough that they somehow manage to get their hands on...

I mean, it's not *impossible* that they can just keep stringing along indefinitely, even shoring up from within. It'd take a lot of things going right. But that's what happens for a lot of teams that do actually perform well over the longer haul. An aging core doesn't *have to* translate directly into a rebuild phase. It could... maybe it _should_... but I can imagine them skipping past it, with luck. If you want to call it luck.

l8r,
Gerry

Jim Bauch

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May 8, 2017, 4:01:41 PM5/8/17
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On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 6:11:00 PM UTC-7, mike wrote:
> You deserve a Stanley Cup and I can't wait to see you with it in Montreal. Ram it down their fucking throats and don't feel one bit ashamed to do so.

Jack Todd with some Grade-A trolling in the Gazette:
http://montrealgazette.com/sports/jack-todd-habs-didnt-get-stiffed-with-subban-trade-that-had-to-be-made

"But how Subban and Nashville fare in the post-season has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. This was a deal that had to be made and anyone who sees the Man Mountain in front of Carey Price and thinks the Canadiens are worse off having Weber in town is flat out of his mind."

Ah, yes. The Man Mountain. All hail the Man Mountain! Yeesh. In a column that takes a lofty, dismissive attitude to the "many fans [who] cleave to [Subban] with a desperation," maybe you shouldn't use fawning nicknames like you're a 12-year-old asking Weber for his autograph.

And I would bet large sums of money that, if Nashville had lost in the 1st round the Habs advanced, Todd would be penning an I-told-you-so column explaining how those results were all about Leadership and lecturing us on how Bergevin knew best.

Jim

Jim Bauch

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May 8, 2017, 4:02:40 PM5/8/17
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Should I read anything into the fact that you didn't even mention Scherbak as a possible late bloomer?

Jim

Chuck

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May 8, 2017, 5:43:54 PM5/8/17
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This season the trade was a wash for Montreal. For Nashville they gained a player who supported more offence from their top pairing defencemen. Subban might score a little less then Weber, but Ellis and Jossi will more then cover the difference. Had Montreal kept Subban and the remainder of the defencemen performed the same as they did this season, I think the end result would match what they achieved this season. The trade itself was not a mistake. The stupidity was buying into MT's system, plus MB not making any other moves on defence, they had no pairings who supported each other at the points. Markov did, but age made it impossible to cover the skills the other defence failed to supply. He should have told MT, as much as you hate Subban, I can't trade him because I cannot find a puck moving defenceman to back up Markov. Beaulieu spins his wheels on the development treadmill and both Petry and Emelin have no puck sense when it comes to playmaking. Just changing Subban is a waste if the only move. So, MT if you don't like it, resign

Gerry

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May 9, 2017, 7:46:42 AM5/9/17
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On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 4:02:40 PM UTC-4, Jim Bauch wrote:
> Should I read anything into the fact that you didn't even mention
> Scherbak as a possible late bloomer?

Mm, well you could I suppose. I haven't seen any real signs that he'll make it. He'll be hitting Year 3 in the AHL next season, and I don't think too many stars last for that. New coaching there would definitely help him. But to me, he's like Galchenyuk with all faults magnified x10. Lots of skill, but maybe just not really focused enough to make it as an NHLer? He still has some time, but I definitely don't feel optimistic.

l8r,
Gerry

Gerry

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May 9, 2017, 8:01:14 AM5/9/17
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I would say if it arguably ended being a wash, then it was essentially on the strength of Subban being injured. I've watched him play a dozen times now. He's hurting for sure. He still tips the ice surprisingly when he's out there, and some of the advanced stats for him are eye-popping, but despite that, he's really not the same player he was at his best for the Habs. From what I've seen, he's at maybe 75% of his full effectiveness many nights.

And that 75% is what's good enough to arguably be essentially a wash overall with Weber. He supposedly doesn't bring all the intangibles and glowing old-school hockey god aura of Weber, but he's a lot more active and effective in the defensive zone and at moving the puck. He doesn't score as many goals as Weber, but he contributes to his team scoring more, and getting more chances, which in the end is actually more important.

Nashville fans loved Weber. A lot. I've seen polls now where they are essentially totally on board with the trade and you could probably number them among those who are flat out of their mind too, because they all agree that Subban is better than Weber. And "better" is simply better. Calling a guy a "Man Mountain" doesn't make him better. Steely-eyed glares and reputations don't make a guy better. Subban is better in front of Rinne, he'd be better in front of Price, he's just a better hockey player, period, regardless of urban mythology.

What I hope is that someday Nashville fans get to see Subban restored to his full healthy 100%. I hope his back issues aren't going to be chronic. If that ever happens and he gets back to full health, I don't think even fading mythology could save Weber, or by extension Bergevin, in the evaluation of that trade.

l8r,
Gerry



Chuck

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May 9, 2017, 8:30:02 AM5/9/17
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Individual talent gets a team only so far. What bugs me about Montreal is they have been clueless when it comes to understanding those strengths as to match them up with linemates and defence partners in order to push thier games to an even higher level. It's been system first, talent an afterthought

Chuck

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May 9, 2017, 1:21:24 PM5/9/17
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Late bloomer or early bloomer, does that matter to Montreal. Other teams can break inrookie defencemen. I see little sign of tolerance of "rookie moments" changing while they have a pressbox full of veterans

Jim Bauch

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May 13, 2017, 3:48:13 PM5/13/17
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On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 6:11:00 PM UTC-7, mike wrote:
> You deserve a Stanley Cup and I can't wait to see you with it in Montreal. Ram it down their fucking throats and don't feel one bit ashamed to do so.

Nice assist on the Game 1 OT winner....

Jim

Nyssa

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May 14, 2017, 9:30:56 AM5/14/17
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I was listening to Hockey Primetime yesterday afternoon on
Sirius and the host and his producer were commenting on
PK Subban's success in Nashville and the playoffs.

I found myself nodding in agreement when the host (Connor
McKenna) said that MB can only hope that Nashville loses
the series so he can feel vindicated by the PK trade. His
producer (Laura something-or-other) came back with how the
FANS in Montreal are doing the exact opposite and cheering
PK on to the Final and a possible win of the Cup. That a
win in the series and appearance in the Final will prove
MB that he was on the wrong end of the trade.

There was a bit more discussion about both PK and Weber,
but I have to agree with them for the most part. Based
on their observations and the sentiments expressed in this
newsgroup, I'd say that most Habs fans are of similar mind.

The idiot coach at the time may have pushed for the trade,
but it's all on MB and he gets to own it for the rest of
what's left of his career.

Wear it proudly, MB. It will be your legacy just like the
other poorly thought out trades in Habs history.

Nyssa, who is looking forward to cheering PK and the Preds
on to another win tonight

Chuck

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May 14, 2017, 10:18:14 AM5/14/17
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I hope the Preds do not have to fight the Refs tonight. They are up a game so the variable rule book will be against them. The game they credited the Ducks for checking, some of the credit should go to the Refs, and the leeway they granted the Ducks

Gerry

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May 15, 2017, 8:52:58 AM5/15/17
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I would say that fight against the refs might end up being the biggest one of this series for the Preds, and might even be one that they ultimately can't overcome. The Ducks are a heavy team, and they are clearly very comfortable playing outside the rules, and from what I saw last night, it was definitely a big advantage for them.

The game had a grand total of 5 minor penalties called, but probably more than 20 transgressions of the rules. The Preds have some grittier players too, but those guys are going to have to find ways of making an impact and understanding the latitude they have. Although some players don't have the same latitude as others, unfortunately.

l8r,
Gerry



Chuck

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May 15, 2017, 9:08:40 AM5/15/17
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Putting the whistle away and "let me play" rarely results in a 50 50 split when it comes to comparing the number of ignored infractions of both teams. It rewards grit at the expense of skill. Helps to keep close games close.

Gerry

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May 15, 2017, 9:34:18 AM5/15/17
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In this case, I think they are going beyond "let 'em play"... there is that, and they for sure are ignoring numerous cases of interference, hooking, tripping, routine stuff like that. But perhaps more alarmingly, I think they are ignoring some plays that are actually downright vicious, and which certain players are feeling they can get away with in order to actually hurt opposing players. Some of the slashes and stickwork from the Ducks last night was clearly designed to injure. The officiating got onto a slippery slope and they just seem to be accelerating downhill.

l8r,
Gerry

Chuck

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May 15, 2017, 10:55:40 AM5/15/17
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I hate scrum hockey, unfortunately the NHL sees the endurance players must survive in the play-offs as a marketing tool. Games are kept close due to lax enforcement of the rule book rather then skilled defensive play. Third period penalty calls during close games are low. Recent two man advantages resulted from infractions the Refs are given no discretion, puck of the glass calls. Otherwise once a regular infraction is called, the whistle is put away. Full out cross checking, written off as "pushing" is tolerated during the playoffs because it contributes to the grit the NHL wants to sell along with increased tolerance of late hits

Jim Bauch

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May 22, 2017, 11:03:49 PM5/22/17
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On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 6:11:00 PM UTC-7, mike wrote:
> You deserve a Stanley Cup and I can't wait to see you with it in Montreal. Ram it down their fucking throats and don't feel one bit ashamed to do so.

Now already farther than he ever got with the Habs. Hell, farther than the Habs have gotten since P.K. was four years old.

Jim

Nyssa

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May 23, 2017, 9:03:29 AM5/23/17
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I'm really hoping that PK wins the Cup then sends a selfie
of himself holding it to his Foxhole buddies. "Thanks for
the memories, but I'll take Stanley" would be a nice caption.

Bitter? Yeah, you betcha!

I'm all on board for the Preds train now. Go PK!

Nyssa, who has been known to hold a grudge a time or two

gorgo...@gmail.com

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May 25, 2017, 3:02:50 PM5/25/17
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Some loser Leafs fans I know were chuckling and gloating on how they're enjoying how Habs fans must be freaking on Subes success. They're looking forward to seeing Habland Nova if and when the Preds win. I, of course, delighted in informing them that the majority of Habs fans are actually pulling for Sube and wish him well. It's pleasing to bust their bubble.

Mike

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May 25, 2017, 3:48:26 PM5/25/17
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On 05/25/2017 04:02 PM, gorgo...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some loser Leafs fans I know were chuckling and gloating on how they're enjoying how Habs fans must be freaking on Subes success. They're looking forward to seeing Habland Nova if and when the Preds win. I, of course, delighted in informing them that the majority of Habs fans are actually pulling for Sube and wish him well. It's pleasing to bust their bubble.
>
I can honestly say that for the first time in my life I will be watching
the Stanley Cup finals involving teams not named the Montreal Canadiens
and for the first time I will actually be pulling for a team not named
the Montreal Canadiens.

Anyone who says that most Habs fans must be sick about PK winning a cup
aren't paying attention.

Go PK!

Gerry

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May 25, 2017, 4:00:32 PM5/25/17
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The other thing that I find weird is Sens fans telling me how it must bug me that the Sens are winning. Wait, what? I live in Ottawa, I'm generally glad if the Sens do well. I don't have any particular grudge against the Sens. I don't normally care about them either way. But I find a lot of Sens fans seem to think there is a rivalry with the Habs? I never understood that.

l8r,
Gerry

Ed

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May 25, 2017, 5:43:46 PM5/25/17
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For some reason the media (Rogers talking heads) have been saying that for a year or two. I have no idea how they think there's a rivalry between the 2.

Nyssa

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May 25, 2017, 5:49:16 PM5/25/17
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I guess they're remembering a playoff series from a few
years ago between the Habs and the Sens that got pretty
nasty.

For me, I'm rooting for the Sens tonight. Not just because
Ottawa is a favorite city of mine, but because if we get
a Preds-Sens Final that means we're guaranteed to get a
Cup winner that has never won before which will be very
refreshing. (No, I don't count the old-time Sens team
from the 20s and 30s since it is history and a totally
different franchise. Although I knew the widow of one
of the players from 'way back then. Nice lady, nice
family...all hockey fans still.)

Nyssa, who is wishing she didn't have to wait until 8pm+
for the danged puck to drop

Ed

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May 25, 2017, 5:57:28 PM5/25/17
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Hey Nyssa, I'd take 8 pm any day. Try 9:30 for a start.
In the office by 7 AM.

Ed

Nyssa

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May 25, 2017, 6:49:32 PM5/25/17
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I agree with you there. Those 10:30pm starts were a killer,
and I usually didn't make it through the entire game. Mornings
do tend to come early. :)

Right now, I'd just like to get things started. I'm anxious
to see who the Preds will have as an opponent.

Then having to wait until MONDAY night for the first game
of the Final to start is going to be excruciating! Although
I would imagine more than a few of the players will welcome
the time off to do a bit of healing and resting before the
real fun starts.

Nyssa, who hopes that the week's rain finally stops for the
weekend so she can catch up on outside yard and garden work
and before she ends up with webbed feet

Jim Bauch

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Jun 5, 2017, 4:59:53 PM6/5/17
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I have to say that I'm baffled by this latest "controversy" involving P.K.

For those not familiar: at the end of Game 3, Subban and Crosby were seen exchanging words near the benches. In the post-game interview, Pierre McGuire asks Subban what Crosby said to him, and P.K. responds (paraphrasing) "Crosby was saying I have bad breath; I dunno, I used Listerine before the game...."

To me, this was obviously a joke. Presumably, whatever Crosby said to him was some combination of (a) not something Subban could repeat on live television; (b) just the usual dull trash talk not worth repeating; and/or (c) something Subban just figured should stay between them. In brushing it off with a joke, Subban was doing the right thing, following "the code," and possibly even doing Crosby and the NHL a favor. (To be clear: I don't imagine that Sid said anything racial or anything that doesn't get said a hundred times in an NHL game. But I figure neither Crosby nor the league wants it known that the league's best player goes around saying "fuck you asshole" or whatever when he's losing a game. Not that anyone should be surprised or offended by such comments, but....)

Well, apparently some idiots have taken it literally, and asked Crosby if he actually complained about P.K.'s breath, and when Crosby denied saying it, we now have a "controversy." Holy shit. Prepare yourself for some more "hot takes" about how see, this is Subban making it all about him, when it was so clearly an attempt to avoid controversy rather than start one.

Jim

Chuck

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Jun 5, 2017, 5:52:15 PM6/5/17
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If Crosby had a sense of humour, he'd say "you call that bad breath" next game I`ll chow down on a bag of onions just for you (Or anything else that is gross and smelly" I'll teach you what bad breath really is.

Jim Bauch

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Jun 5, 2017, 6:09:14 PM6/5/17
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Unfortunately, the CrosbyBot 3.0, while having the most up-to-date, state-of-the-art sports interview cliches, does not come with a humour module. Designers beta-tested one, but it apparently caused conflicts with the Whining to the Refs subroutines, so full implementation will have to wait for the next version.

Jim

Nyssa

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Jun 5, 2017, 6:22:17 PM6/5/17
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I agree with your take on it, Jim. That and PK might have
been doing a riff on that silly response that Kessel made
to McGuire during last season's playoffs when he misunderstood
a question about his breath.

And yep, the media has already come out with the "PK making
it all about him" mantra. Idiots. He was asked a stupid
question and he handled it the best way he could.

Plus I'll even give PK an additional thumbs-up by taking
some of the pressure off his less outgoing or experienced
teammates. By making comments and declarations to the press,
PK is taking a LOT of the media spotlight away from kids
who might not be able to handle it as well along with the
pressure of playing in the Final. Funny how none of the
talking heads have even thought of that angle since they're
so fast to think (and say) the worst about PK whenever
given even half an excuse just to make headlines and fill
up (hot)air time.

GO PK! Take it back to Pitt tied at two all, then get the
next one too.

Nyssa, who is looking forward to tonight's game after too
long a break between games

Chuck

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Jun 5, 2017, 6:43:55 PM6/5/17
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Don Cherry deprogrammed all the fun out of him. According to Cherry, having fun pisses off the opposition

Gerry

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Jun 6, 2017, 8:29:47 AM6/6/17
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On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 6:09:14 PM UTC-4, Jim Bauch wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, the CrosbyBot 3.0, while having the most up-to-date,
> state-of-the-art sports interview cliches, does not come with a
> humour module. Designers beta-tested one, but it apparently caused
> conflicts with the Whining to the Refs subroutines, so full
> implementation will have to wait for the next version.

Brilliant. :)

The Pens can be fun when to watch at times when they are rolling, but do they ever turn into some whiny spoiled children when they aren't winning. It's an interesting culture, because I can remember complaining about that kind of attitude from them several years ago too, and 80% of the roster has probably changed since then.

l8r,
Gerry




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