Sergachev/Drouin trade

[Gerry]

Looks like it's starting...

[Gerry]

Sergachev+2nd for Drouin+6th...

Don't know what the conditions are, but at least in isolation this makes a lot more sense. I mean, the Habs need offense, and this isn't sideways for Galchenyuk, at least. Maybe it insulates them better towards trading Galchenyuk for a center as their followup, while still building some scoring.

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 3:12:20 PM UTC-4, Gerry wrote:
> Looks like it's starting...

Gaining a player requiring protection, so someone has to be traded or bumped off the list

[Mike]

On 06/15/2017 04:12 PM, Gerry wrote:
> Looks like it's starting...
>

yep

https://twitter.com/CanadiensMTL/status/875429633860263936

Was really excited about Sergachev. Not sure about this one.

[Mike]

On 06/15/2017 04:12 PM, Gerry wrote:

> Looks like it's starting...
>

Does this mean no Radulov I wonder?

[Chuck]

I`ll wait and see what other moves are made on defence. Montreal improves their offense while saving a young defenseman from a torturous entry into the NHL :)

[Gerry]

I think they still arguably needed a scoring winger anyway, a pure add, but especially if they move Galchenyuk for Duchene. Drouin is creative and a good playmaker. Actually might have looked good WITH Galchenyuk, but I have to assume they're not thinking of going that route.

l8r,
Gerry

[Gerry]

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 3:29:05 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote:

I wouldn't think so. Drouin on LW, Radulov on RW, and a good skating responsible center might be a nice line?

l8r,
Gerry

[Gerry]

Apparently the conditions on the picks are that they only swap hands if Sergachev plays < 40 games next season.

That's a fair condition IMHO... I think the jury is pretty much out on whether Sergachev is truly ready or not. Habs might have rushed him just out of desperation, but I'm not sold on him being ready in a more ideal scenario. He's unfortunately kind of in that grey zone where he's unchallenged by the game at the OHL level, but doesn't have any other options. This way, he'll have to really be earning his keep to prompt the Bolts to keep him on and pass on taking the 2nd.

l8r,
Gerry

[Mike]

On 06/15/2017 04:12 PM, Gerry wrote:

> Looks like it's starting...
>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK2FvcsSc9Q

Drouin originally drafted as a centre. If they sign Radulov

Radulov-Drouin-Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Danault-Lehkonen-Gallagher-Shaw-Plekaenc

That's a decent top 9 there boys. In fact, its a good top 9.

Defence might still be an issue but they could go out and snag Girardi
perhaps for not too high a price
Weber-Girardi-Markov-Petry-Beaulieu/Benn (one of these 2 is likely gone)

That's not too bad of a lineup

[Gerry]

I think it has been tried and determined long ago and even more conclusively that Drouin can't play center in the NHL. I mean, if they try to use him there, after what they went through/failed to go through with Galchenyuk, then wow, that would have some big irony in it.

l8r,
Gerry

[Jim Bauch]

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 12:45:42 PM UTC-7, Gerry wrote:
> Apparently the conditions on the picks are that they only swap hands if Sergachev plays < 40 games next season.

I'm seeing conflicting reports on that. First, NHL.com reports that the picks move if he plays MORE THAN 40 games:

"Tampa Bay general manager Steve Yzerman said the draft picks will be exchanged only if Sergachev plays 40 games during the regular season and Stanley Cup Playoffs combined with the Lightning next season. He added the second-round pick the Canadiens would send to the Lightning is the Washington Capitals' pick in 2018, acquired by Montreal in the June 24 trade that sent center Lars Eller to Washington."
https://www.nhl.com/news/montreal-acquires-jonathan-drouin-from-tampa-bay/c-289945898?tid=278542340

TSN says the same, but flips the pick, with a 2nd going TO Montreal:

"Two conditional picks were also exchanged in the deal – a second-rounder going to Montreal and a sixth-round pick heading to Tampa Bay – but neither of those picks will change hands if Sergachev appears in 40 or more regular season or playoff games next year."
http://www.tsn.ca/canadiens-acquire-drouin-from-lightning-for-sergachev-1.780437

I think the TSN report must be wrong, because why would Yzerman be commenting on which Habs' second rounder is involved if it's a 2nd going TO Montreal?


Jim

[Jim Bauch]

And Pierre Lebrun reports same as Gerry's version, which is the one that makes sense to me: the Lightning get the pick upgrade UNLESS Sergachev plays 40+ this season.

Jim

[Marty]

Hi everyone. As usual, I drop out after play-off defeat in depression, but
I guess I'm back now, early, because this is interesting.

Anyway, my thoughts on this trade. Well, I would call this the wild
riverboat gamble trade. By both teams. It is really hard to know how this
turns out.

The upside of both these guys is mysterious. Sergachev is so young, nobody
knows. Will he be sublime offensively and fine defensively, or will he be
a talented but selfish hotdog who drives coaches nuts with some crazy
gambles? In other words, will he be a poor man's Subban that plays akin to
the opinion of his fans or his detractors?! :)

Drouin. Is he just another Frenchy deemed too valuable by a Hab's
management team that wants a French star that they overlook all his
character flaws, or have the scored a player who already went through his
rough, character development period in Tampa, and is wiser and ready to
rise to the occasion in Montreal? His best stats aren't wildly impressive,
but they are decent and improving, and that darn contract looks nice. Not
crazy high. Long. Almost no distractions by it. If he is even decent (50
point player) he lives up to it. If he is better, he can be a fan star
with almost no negatives given the not-insane contract.


I remember yesterday how easy it was to figure out who to protect in the
draft, at forward. Everyone you wanted to, easy. Now what?

Marty

[Gerry]

So far my impressions from scattered juniors viewings of Sergachev is that he's kind of like Malakhov - the good version. He's not liable to doing wild things or taking wild chances, but he has the ability to go end to end when he sees the chance. He makes things look effortless. Some people mistake that for casualness, but for him playing 30 mins a game, he's conserving energy well, making generally good decisions. Some people wish there was more pace or energy in his game, but I think he's smarter playing in control like he does. Now, that isn't to say he's mistake-free. He makes some, but I don't think it's unusual for a young defenseman playing his situations. He's not flashy or ostentatious at all, he's good in all situations at both ends.

I think the main danger with him is just the inherent risk in development curve. For any young defenseman. But also with the Habs' track record factored in. And the danger of him stagnating if he had to go back to junior again. Those are legitimate risk items IMHO. Not enormous ones - obviously Tampa is not scared off by them. But it at least leaves some uncertainty on the table.

Whereas it seems like Drouin has cleared his main hurdles.

What I think will be bizarre is if they follow through on the latest chatter now and do something like trading Galchenyuk for a young defenseman. The supposed "fit" with Minnesota and Brodin is one example. Brodin is a good defensemen in the new smooth/unaggressive/non-flashy style. He plays his position well and is mobile, doesn't really put up any points. But it will add up to some weird sidewayness in the end, taking Drouin to replace Galchenyuk, handing him a nice 6-year contract that they weren't willing to hand Galchenyuk... and getting a little smaller, while not addressing the center position at all.

Brodin and Drouin instead of Sergachev, Galchenyuk, and Beaulieu (lost to expansion) would not be a net gain, even if I like Brodin and Drouin just fine as players.

l8r,
Gerry

[Mike]

On 06/15/2017 04:12 PM, Gerry wrote:

> Looks like it's starting...
>

and of course Pierre Maguire doesn't like the move. I listened a bit to
his interview this morning on tsn 690. Apparently exchanging a prospect
at 18 (soon to be 19) for a 22 year old established top 3 forward is not
advisable because of the difference in age. Fairly lame argument in my
books. He was actually quite intense with his dislike of this move. Now,
I will agree if for instance they get rid of Galchenyuk and don't sign
Radulov. Then the move would make no sense. This move has to be an
improvement. If its just to band aid over the loss of Radulov while
Galchenyuk is traded for a defencman (as is the rumour) then this move
is a joke. It would be worse than a move sideways. It would be a loss in
the very area that they need improvement - scoring. So I'll wait to see
what transpires between now and July 1 before passing judgment on this
move. Maguire should do likewise but he's a fucking blowhard most times
so he needs to play the clown I suppose.

[Chuck]

It would be silly to trade Galchenyuk for a defenceman.... while the need for more offence remains. Such a trade would cancel out any gain from Drouin

[Nyssa]

You know that, I know that, and the whole newsgroup knows
that. We're all thinking logically.

But logic and Mr. Foxhole have little to nothing to do with
each other.

I just can't see any good coming out of what's going on
especially if Radu isn't signed. We'll be worse off than
last season overall, even with Drouin in the mix.

Nyssa, who is wondering where her pet will end up

[Jim Bauch]

I'm ok with the general concept of this trade. It makes sense on multiple levels. As I mentioned in a different thread, given the Habs' current situation, trading future assets for current makes a fair bit of sense. Certainly better than just rolling out the same basic roster again and hoping for better luck. In my opinion, it's also better than starting a rebuild, and in any event, MB ain't interested in that so it's a moot point.

I'm also in favor of upgrading the offense, especially if it can be done without opening up holes elsewhere. And while this may put a dent in the *future* blueline, it doesn't affect the *current* one.

And finally, I think it's fine for the Habs to place some value on getting a "local hero," as long as it's treated as a nice bonus rather than driving the entire deal.

I'm not in love with the conditional pick swap here, but as a proven NHL'er, I guess the Habs had to pay something extra rather than a straight-up exchange of players. Still, I would have thought that Tampa's expansion draft problem -- they were poised to lose Namestnikov, I believe, until this deal solved it -- and cap constraints would have enabled MB to drive a harder bargain.

I agree that it will be a disappointment if this is followed up by a Galchenyuk-for-a-D trade.

I'm also going to note, with a sigh, that once again the Habs show that they're willing to take a player with an actual documentable "attitude problem" (he refused to report to the AHL as a 20-year-old, held out for six weeks of suspension). I don't really object to Drouin or think he'll be a problem, and certainly the previous "questionable character" guy MB acquired (Radulov) worked out well. But it does irritate me when that same management casts aspersions on guys like Subban and now Galchenyuk.

Jim