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Draft
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Chuck
Jun 24, 2017, 2:44:23 PM6/24/17
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Another batch of new victims for Montreal's farm system. I really hope they overhaul Laval's coaching staff. Outside of the draft the news has been pretty boring for Habs fans. Even Eklund's predictions have been lamer then usual.
TheMadApe
Jun 24, 2017, 3:52:07 PM6/24/17
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It was a weak draft so I am not surprised at the lack of trades to move
up. GMs tried of course but asking price was too high.
TMA
up. GMs tried of course but asking price was too high.
TMA
Gerry
Jun 24, 2017, 6:39:05 PM6/24/17
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It seemed like a reasonable draft to me. You never really know, but they seemed to land reasonable value relative to most rankings.
Personally, I might have swung for the fences a little harder with the 1st pick. I didn't watch Poehling this year. He sounds like a reasonably competent 2-way center, in the "safe"/"smart" vein. I'm not entirely a fan of playing it safe with a later 1st rounder. But he seems to be a solid enough player.
Picking all the WHL defensemen is a bit weird, but they all seem like solid choices relative to their rankings. It seems like the Habs are valuing a lot of "tweener" qualities in terms of guys who can play a bit both ways, aren't skill guys, but aren't plodding behemoths either, just more Davidsons and Schlemkos?
I like the Ikonen pick... that maybe seems to be the one guy who stands out with a bit of skill upside.
And trading upstream to get the extra pick to draft the goalie Primeau is also a reasonable move IMHO. He was getting bypassed, and if you perpetually kick those picks down the road a year, it's profit.
17 RYAN POEHLING C USA 6' 1" 177 NCHC ST. CLOUD STATE
56 JOSH BROOK D CAN 6' 1" 191 WHL MOOSE JAW
58 JONI IKONEN C FIN 5' 11" 177 SWEDEN-JR. FROLUNDA JR.
68 SCOTT WALFORD D CAN 6' 1" 193 WHL VICTORIA
87 CALE FLEURY D CAN 6' 1" 199 WHL KOOTENAY
149 JARRET TYSZKA D CAN 6' 2"188 WHL SEATTLE
199 CAYDEN PRIMEAU G USA 6' 2" 186 USHL LINCOLN
In terms of development, forget it. Bergevin seems to be dropping ample hints that he'll just keep his nepotism rolling with the staff in Laval, despite all their issues in the past 5 years. :S
l8r,
Gerry
Personally, I might have swung for the fences a little harder with the 1st pick. I didn't watch Poehling this year. He sounds like a reasonably competent 2-way center, in the "safe"/"smart" vein. I'm not entirely a fan of playing it safe with a later 1st rounder. But he seems to be a solid enough player.
Picking all the WHL defensemen is a bit weird, but they all seem like solid choices relative to their rankings. It seems like the Habs are valuing a lot of "tweener" qualities in terms of guys who can play a bit both ways, aren't skill guys, but aren't plodding behemoths either, just more Davidsons and Schlemkos?
I like the Ikonen pick... that maybe seems to be the one guy who stands out with a bit of skill upside.
And trading upstream to get the extra pick to draft the goalie Primeau is also a reasonable move IMHO. He was getting bypassed, and if you perpetually kick those picks down the road a year, it's profit.
17 RYAN POEHLING C USA 6' 1" 177 NCHC ST. CLOUD STATE
56 JOSH BROOK D CAN 6' 1" 191 WHL MOOSE JAW
58 JONI IKONEN C FIN 5' 11" 177 SWEDEN-JR. FROLUNDA JR.
68 SCOTT WALFORD D CAN 6' 1" 193 WHL VICTORIA
87 CALE FLEURY D CAN 6' 1" 199 WHL KOOTENAY
149 JARRET TYSZKA D CAN 6' 2"188 WHL SEATTLE
199 CAYDEN PRIMEAU G USA 6' 2" 186 USHL LINCOLN
In terms of development, forget it. Bergevin seems to be dropping ample hints that he'll just keep his nepotism rolling with the staff in Laval, despite all their issues in the past 5 years. :S
l8r,
Gerry
Jim Bauch
Jun 25, 2017, 12:43:15 PM6/25/17
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On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 3:39:05 PM UTC-7, Gerry wrote:
> In terms of development, forget it. Bergevin seems to be dropping ample hints that he'll just keep his nepotism rolling with the staff in Laval, despite all their issues in the past 5 years. :S
>
I read a quote from Trevor Timmins to the effect of how the two most valuable commodities in the draft are centers and offensive defensemen, and I laughed bitterly. Go ahead and find some guys like that, Trevor, and then turn them over to a system that will move the centers to the wing and tell the defensemen to stay back and make the safe play (and, if that fails, trade them away).
> In terms of development, forget it. Bergevin seems to be dropping ample hints that he'll just keep his nepotism rolling with the staff in Laval, despite all their issues in the past 5 years. :S
>
In the end, Bergevin's biggest flaw may not be his trades, or even his player evaluation overall, but his personnel policies. He waited WAY too long to fire MT, and has sat idly by while the farm system has dried up. Those are mistakes that the Habs will be paying for years after Molson eventually wises up and fires MB.
Jim
Marty
Jun 25, 2017, 1:55:21 PM6/25/17
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What a crapshoot the draft is though. The d-man Montreal drafted in the 5th
round was rated 8 slots higher among North American skaters than the d-man
they used their 2nd pick on! In the third round they picked another d-man
well ABOVE his draft ranking. He was over twice as far down the North
American skater list than the 5th round pick! Still, all 3 d-men are
almost identical on a stat sheet. They range in height from 6'1" to 6'2",
and weight from 188 to 193. In other words, identical. Their point totals
all run around 1 point per 2 games (the 2nd rounder is just a bit higher
than that). So who knows which one is the best, or if any will make it?
Kind makes me think that maybe it should be that an 18 year old can only
be picked in the 1st round. Give most guys an extra year of development
before they are available to be drafted. It's not like you currently see
18-year-old 2nd round picks going straight to the NHL. That's almost
unheard of.
round was rated 8 slots higher among North American skaters than the d-man
they used their 2nd pick on! In the third round they picked another d-man
well ABOVE his draft ranking. He was over twice as far down the North
American skater list than the 5th round pick! Still, all 3 d-men are
almost identical on a stat sheet. They range in height from 6'1" to 6'2",
and weight from 188 to 193. In other words, identical. Their point totals
all run around 1 point per 2 games (the 2nd rounder is just a bit higher
than that). So who knows which one is the best, or if any will make it?
Kind makes me think that maybe it should be that an 18 year old can only
be picked in the 1st round. Give most guys an extra year of development
before they are available to be drafted. It's not like you currently see
18-year-old 2nd round picks going straight to the NHL. That's almost
unheard of.
Gerry
Jun 25, 2017, 2:51:36 PM6/25/17
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Yeah, the draft is indeed a total crapshoot in the later rounds. It's all kind of illusory how we rate it... it seemed to me as I followed along with the picks on NHL.com that they got pretty good value on some guys, reached too much on Walford. But that's based on having the bias of all the rankings... which are an echo chamber of sorts.
I didn't watch much junior hockey this year. Tyzska had some problems in the Mem Cup games, which I watched, but then his whole team kind of stunk out the joint... but at that point in the season, every scout is watching, and presumably that's why his stock torpedoed relative to rankings.
They drafted one "safe" style center, like a Chipchura/Danault type maybe, and another skillsier guy in Ikonen who maybe ends up more of a winger like Lehtonen? It's not clearly an emphasis on centers. The D all seem to be more generic middle/fill-in types, they don't seem to have swung for any fences there?
I don't know, it's not clear how they make progress. They are going to be in the bottom 5 of the NHL in prospect rankings for the next little while IMHO. And it's not like they've gone crazy trading prospects or high picks in deadline deals to try to "go for it". They've kept a reasonable cross-section of picks. But they haven't ended up with much to show for it, which is probably indeed going to be a legacy hallmark of this management group.
l8r,
Gerry
I didn't watch much junior hockey this year. Tyzska had some problems in the Mem Cup games, which I watched, but then his whole team kind of stunk out the joint... but at that point in the season, every scout is watching, and presumably that's why his stock torpedoed relative to rankings.
They drafted one "safe" style center, like a Chipchura/Danault type maybe, and another skillsier guy in Ikonen who maybe ends up more of a winger like Lehtonen? It's not clearly an emphasis on centers. The D all seem to be more generic middle/fill-in types, they don't seem to have swung for any fences there?
I don't know, it's not clear how they make progress. They are going to be in the bottom 5 of the NHL in prospect rankings for the next little while IMHO. And it's not like they've gone crazy trading prospects or high picks in deadline deals to try to "go for it". They've kept a reasonable cross-section of picks. But they haven't ended up with much to show for it, which is probably indeed going to be a legacy hallmark of this management group.
l8r,
Gerry
Nyssa
Jun 25, 2017, 3:30:26 PM6/25/17
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is why I'm hoping the 1st round pick STAYS in school next
season at St. Cloud State. He'll get much more coaching
and development there than he ever has a chance of getting
with the Habs' system.
If the other kids have a choice, such as staying in the
Swedish Elite league rather than come over here to languish
in Laval, I'd tell 'em to stay put. The development and
coaching in Sweden and Finland looks to be much better and
will do them more good in the long run.
That's a pretty bad situation for what should be a class
organization, but we've seen this story too many times
already in the past several years. Don't ruin more picks
and prospects by trying to fit round pegs into square holes
or vice-versa.
Nyssa, who doesn't expect to see any of these picks in
a Habs sweater anytime soon anyway
Chuck
Jun 25, 2017, 4:29:30 PM6/25/17
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