Consider Trading Price??

[gorgo...@gmail.com]

As much as I like Price, if the Habs get a sense from him and his agent that he's going to go north of 9 mill per year for a contract I'd secretly feel out other GM's to see if they're interested in a deal. He is one commodity we have that would command a top line player in return, maybe even a top liner as well as a high draft pick (e.g Giroux plus a 1st?; Malkin?). This could make a big difference assuming we could go on the market and nab a good tender to replace Price. Of course we wouldn't be able to replace Price but someone of the calibre of Fluery or Bishop could take us to the promised land as long as there was a good team in front of him. I fear a big bucks contract to Price may handcuff the Habs for several years regardless of how good he is.

[Chuck]

If you want max gain from a Price trade. He would have to be replaced by an RFA already in the system to eliminate any need to get a goalie back in a trade. This would clear up the most cap space to be used up front. But little chance of that happening since what team has enough assets to trade them for Price and still win. Classic dig one whole to fill another. Any return for him will disappoint other then covering the "can't let him walk for nothing" cliche solace for Habs fans

[TheMadApe]

gorgo...@gmail.com wrote:
> As much as I like Price, if the Habs get a sense from him and his agent that he's going to go north of 9 mill per year for a contract I'd secretly feel out other GM's to see if they're interested in a deal. He is one commodity we have that would command a top line player in return, maybe even a top liner as well as a high draft pick (e.g Giroux plus a 1st?; Malkin?). This could make a big difference assuming we could go on the market and nab a good tender to replace Price. Of course we wouldn't be able to replace Price but someone of the calibre of Fluery or Bishop could take us to the promised land as long as there was a good team in front of him. I fear a big bucks contract to Price may handcuff the Habs for several years regardless of how good he is.

Well with McDavid's agent asking for $14 million per for 8 years (I
predict they will probably settle for $12) Price will be coming in at $9
- $12 million per for 8 years.

TMA

[Gerry]

The Habs have tied their fate directly to Price thus far in the last near-decade. They might just as well ride that out. If I'm Price's agent, I demand an $80M contract at the absolute minimum. He might be able to top that on the open market considering taxes (and 7 years instead of 8), but it has to be a fair number based on the Habs' own demonstrated philosophy.

I wouldn't really lose sleep speculating on a trade or any other scenario. Just sign him for $10M per for 8 years, and roll with it. It's really the rest of what they do that matters most. They aren't EVER going to rebuild or anything, so folks ought to just assume a Price re-signing IMHO.

l8r,
Gerry

[Mike]

On 2017-06-24 03:43 PM, gorgo...@gmail.com wrote:
> As much as I like Price, if the Habs get a sense from him and his agent that he's going to go north of 9 mill per year for a contract I'd secretly feel out other GM's to see if they're interested in a deal. He is one commodity we have that would command a top line player in return, maybe even a top liner as well as a high draft pick (e.g Giroux plus a 1st?; Malkin?). This could make a big difference assuming we could go on the market and nab a good tender to replace Price. Of course we wouldn't be able to replace Price but someone of the calibre of Fluery or Bishop could take us to the promised land as long as there was a good team in front of him. I fear a big bucks contract to Price may handcuff the Habs for several years regardless of how good he is.
>

I'd consider trading him at this point for the simple reason that the
Habs are a lot closer to a rebuild than many think and he'd be a good
first step in realizing that its time to go the Toronto route.

[Gerry]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 7:32:32 AM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
> I'd consider trading him at this point for the simple reason that the
> Habs are a lot closer to a rebuild than many think and he'd be a good
> first step in realizing that its time to go the Toronto route.

Maybe if you were the GM, I'd be open to the idea of trading Price and rebuilding. But you're not, and there is simply no way I'd ever consider entrusting a rebuild to this management group. They couldn't rebuild their way out of a wet paper bag.

As much as they've flubbed and floundered on various fronts thus far, they still have some 100-pt seasons on the board, and - WITH PRICE! - still have some chance of making the playoffs and having a competitive-ish team. It's not very likely the team does much in the end, but... the odds of a miracle aren't quite zero. If they can add a few more of the needed ingredients (ginormous "if"), and if the good new coaching starts to pay off... well, they could yet get themselves into the position of "riding Carey Price to a win".

It's not exactly hopeful material, but... it's still better than these guys overseeing a rebuild.

That said, if the team is out of the playoffs at the trade deadline and Price still hasn't signed his extension by then, you pretty much have to move him at that time, if you can.

l8r,
Gerry

[Mike]

As the days go by and we approach UFA time, I'm growing less inclined to
believe this team is capable of progressing under its current
leadership. They trade for Drouin and sign him in like 2 hours.
Galchenyuk who has similar stats has trouble. I just don't get this
negative approach to their home-grown talent while outsiders are greeted
with instant credibility and a trunk full of cash. As far as Radulov
goes, ok, if he's looking for 7 years then he's either got to look
elsewhere or take a salary south of $5M per year and that figure is
inversely proportional to the term.

We're at a fork in the road right now with this current leadership.The
next week will tell where this team is headed. Personally, I do not have
a good feeling.

And thanks for the vote of confidence as a GM. If I get the job my first
appointment will be Gerry as General Manager of the Foxhole. :-)

[Gerry]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 9:55:10 AM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
>
> As the days go by and we approach UFA time, I'm growing less inclined to
> believe this team is capable of progressing under its current
> leadership. They trade for Drouin and sign him in like 2 hours.
> Galchenyuk who has similar stats has trouble. I just don't get this
> negative approach to their home-grown talent while outsiders are greeted
> with instant credibility and a trunk full of cash.

So what I have to think is that they are just going based purely on "character/personality" traits when they make these weird double-standard-seeming decisions. It's not purely homegrown vs. outsider. It's not purely veteran vs. youth. Sometimes there are homegrown guys they love (Plekanec, Desharnais, Pacioretty), sometimes there are younger guys they love (ok, tougher but say Gallagher, De La Rose). Sometimes they hand out crazy cash to incumbents (again, Desharnais, Emelin, etc). And then of course they ride some of the others out of town (Galchenyuk, Subban, Beaulieu).

I think they just decide they don't like certain personalities, and put waaaay too much weight on those personal feelings. Whereas a newcomer, they don't know him yet, so he's a blank slate. Even if, like say Radulov and Drouin, they have big issues behind them in past organizations and it might seem like they'd be risky personalities to absorb into the borg collective as well.

For us as fans, we don't live with these players, we don't know them personally, travel with them, etc. So it's automatic for us to overlook off-ice stuff. But even then, it seems like maybe the Habs are going a bit overboard with their chemistry experiment here. I like to think I'd be a little more accommodating of individuality, and not let that colour my decisions so heavily, assuming all was good on the ice. On the ice is what really matters.

Not that I think there is anything truly wrong with the personality of any of the players they soured on - in fact if anything, I'd be willing to bet those are the personalities I'd actually prefer - but there are no big disasters here I don't think, it just seems like the Habs have a very narrow view of what they can tolerate, perhaps. And again, this is also all very weird in the sense that Bergevin himself was considered a joker when he played, so I'm not sure why they'd want all robo-clones or whatever. Maybe that disproves my hypothesis. Whatever the reasons, it truly is weird how the double standards are deployed.

l8r,
Gerry

[Gerry]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 9:55:10 AM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
>

> As the days go by and we approach UFA time, I'm growing less inclined to
> believe this team is capable of progressing under its current
> leadership.

One thing we've got less than a week to see... I have kind of been taking it for granted that Radulov and Markov will be back. But they can do better on the open market than what the Habs seem to be thinking.

Radulov's leaked initial ask of 6x$7M was hefty, but I don't think it's completely impossible he could get it on the open market. He can talk to other teams, though, and pretty quickly determine if that's true or not.

The twitterverse seems to have suggest Markov wants $7M over 2 years. To me, that's a no-brainer, you take that. Because again, the open market WILL give it to him.

The team without these two is definitely another big step closer to not making the playoffs, unless Bergevin can pull a rabbit out of his hat to replace them.

Being a non-playoff team when you're consciously rebuilding, ok, that's generally acceptable. Being a non-playoff team when you're ostensibly trying to ice a contender... whups.

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

The best teams are ones that tend to max out cap space. Are there any teams willing to give Markov a two year contract and a NMC, pushing the limit of their cap space? Markov is old enough that retirement would not clear his cap space, so I think teams would want an out if Markov wants a multi year contract. Time for Markov to retire

[Jim Bauch]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 7:26:05 AM UTC-7, Gerry wrote:
> it just seems like the Habs have a very narrow view of what they can tolerate, perhaps. And again, this is also all very weird in the sense that Bergevin himself was considered a joker when he played, so I'm not sure why they'd want all robo-clones or whatever. Maybe that disproves my hypothesis. Whatever the reasons, it truly is weird how the double standards are deployed.
>

I wouldn't assume that Bergevin's reputation as "dressing room prankster" means that he was in any way a noncomformist. That is such a well-established traditional role as to be almost a cliché. It doesn't trouble management or make anyone uncomfortable.

And it's certainly no sign of independent thought. If I recall correctly, Ken Dryden's book The Game describes Guy Lapointe as being the team's resident jokester, and it's all such juvenile, 13-year-olds-at-summer-camp stuff: shaving cream in shoes was his go-to move as I recall. You can't help but conclude that Dryden -- the guy taking notes on the bus for a book and taking time off for law school -- was the true "oddball" on that team.

Jim

[Gerry]

That's a good point. Bergevin did seem to be very much the cliche prankster from what I remember. The Boys do need somebody to "keep them loose"... even the robots need a few drops of shaving cream in their skates or clearwrap on the toilets once in a while. As long as it's nothing they didn't already see in Grade 7.

And of course they can pound back any amount of selected beverages at the local watering hole (it doesn't get any better than this boys)! But take an off day in your room with a different selection of stimulants/depressants or activities on the agenda and it's a vastly different issue, no doubt.


l8r,
Gerry

[Gerry]

Wow, that's bad, Chuck. Teams 100% would give Markov 2 years. The only thing that might possibly save the Habs from losing him is that he seems abnormally content and loyal staying in Montreal. He played big minutes again last year, and had a great season overall. A lot of teams also lost defensemen to expansion. A team like Washington losing Schmidt, Shattenkirk, and Alzner, sitting in the middle of a contention window, for sure they are ready to drop a paltry $3.5M for each of 2 years on a great veteran option like Markov.

Edmonton, Dallas, other teams are all going to be very happy to go the 2 years if the Habs aren't. I think Markov seems to be in the Good Books with management in general, if past indications are... any indication. So I'm optimistic they will actually give him the 2 years. Or that he'll continue being loyal and take just 1 even though it's not in his best interests. Either way.

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

I think the big minutes hurt the team. He still has good offensive PP skills but I have little faith in his equal strength defensive skills. I hope he can retire as a Hab as long as it doesn't take a bidding war. Pay him more for a one year contract with an option

[Chuck]

I think the rules around player intake have delayed moves and created possible domino situations. Teams can contact pending UFAs in order to gauge interest in potential signing targets. Rules say they can't discuss terms but I can't see how the NHL can stop them. Pending UFAs who get no calls or calls from teams they do not like, will they gamble that would change on the 1st or would they reconsider that last offers from their current team?

[Chuck]

Rumour on Twitter has Markov asking for 12 million over two years. I guess we will find out if someone is willing to overpay Markov when MB leaves him unsigned for July 1st

[Gerry]

Yeah, that would be an impossible 35+ deal to swallow.

I'm perfectly fine with 2 years... but... it can't both 2 years term *and* the premium price.

I think it's a perfect negotiating stance for Markov though. He wants to 2 years. So give them this starting point. Then you can back off either direction and still win... Habs won't give 2 years? Ok, it's 1-year $6M, a big concession from Markov. Or... if you want the lower price, fine, but then keep 2 years... $4M for 2 years. Still a significant concession.

I think he gets either of those concession points easily on the UFA market if the Habs still don't budge.

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

If Markov's contract was the final item on MB's to do list I think MB would be flexible to Markov's requests. Until then MB will risk letting Markov walk, until other UFA targets are either signed or lost to other teams. If MB goes on a spending spree on Saturday and Markov still wants a raise, cap space might no longer be there

[Gerry]

The cool thing about free agency now is that Markov already knows what the market will bear. Any interested team has already talked to him. So he knows what his next step is. And by extension, therefore Bergevin does too. If Markov calls him back, he knows Markov isn't getting what he wants on the market, and they can talk. If Markov doesn't call him, he knows Markov is getting a good feeling from talking with other teams... and then he'll have to decide if he wants to get in touch and cave a little or let him walk. They ought to have this all figured out before July 1st the way things work these days.

The one thing that would make me cringe is if they sign some other D to a stupid UFA deal instead. UFA deals are not usually good ones. The Habs signed a middling defender in Petry to a pretty inflated deal. The latest buzz seems to have them wooing Karl Alzner. Now, I've liked Karl Alzner in the past, in general. He has been a solid and efficient stay-at-homer. The thing is, especially in this year's thin UFA market, he's possibly a 5x$5M player. And by most reports he has become significantly slowed and less effective in the past year or two relative to his previous reputation.

If you climb on board with a Petry or Alzner at these inflated contract levels and terms... well, then I don't see how that's better than paying Markov for 2 years.

The other funny twitterverse tidbit this morning had the Habs asking Vegas about trading Emelin back to them. That would be rather hilarious.

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

Vegas can't trade expansion drafted players directly back to thier old teams. Methot having been traded by Vegas, his new team could trade him back to Ottawa

[Chuck]

Markov amongst defencemen 39th on PP and 40th over all. Not the stats that shout out critical signing. Too late in his career to reward him for past performance over current production.

[Chuck]

I think Vegas can trade players back, but I think unless Vegas hangs on part of Emelin's contract I see nothing the Habs can gain. I am pretty sure MB can make better use of the whole cap space Emelin used to occupy!

[Gerry]

That's what we always thought. But according to Pierre LeBrun and a whole lot of internet chatter this past week, that's not actually the case. It applies to players traded within a week of the expansion draft, but not players actually picked in the expansion draft (the Jan.1 2018 rule).

l8r,
Gerry

[Gerry]

Hm, but 39th or 40th overall is like middle #2 defenseman... which is actually worth $6M present tense, alas.

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

I knew his PP stats were down but only one PP goal?

[Gerry]

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 7:16:51 PM UTC-4, Chuck wrote:
> I knew his PP stats were down but only one PP goal?

Bottom line, the Habs aren't in an ideal spot either way, right? You don't sign Markov, and jeez, there is nobody else out there, or rather, worse longer term deals for players with even more warts. Or you take Markov at an enormous 1-year deal or riskier 2-year deal, and it's still not what you wish the Habs had as #2 defenseman. I don't see a "win" for the Habs either way, if Markov isn't giving any kind of discount.

But that's where they are. I'd personally take the known commodity in Markov, but the Habs are going to be painfully slow on the back end pretty much no matter what they do.

l8r,
Gerry

[Chuck]

I think it highlights how silly it was to get rid of Beaulieu whose PP stats matched Markov. One year for Markov should work but no to a 2nd year. That year they will need the cap space for Price

[Nyssa]

Exactly!

The Beaulieu dump was a boneheaded move even before this
Markov drama. Talk about painting yourself into a corner!

It must be getting rather cramped in the Foxhole what with
all that paint in the middle of the floor.

Nyssa, who wonders if MB's decision dartboard needs replacing

[Chuck]

Another bonehead move would be taking Emelin back. But I`d make the trade if the cost was Plekanecs :)

[Nyssa]

LOL!

Yeah, I had been hoping Vegas would take Plecks.

I'd rather not have Emelin back, but I'd take Beaulieu back...
or PK. :/

I heard court jester PJ Stock interviewed yesterday. Based
on his enthusiasm for the "get Emelin back" idea, I wouldn't
be surprised if he had been behind the beginning of the rumor
that the Habs were trying to get him back in a reverse trade.

At least we can always count on Stock being on the wrong side
of right. He's consistent, if nothing else.

Nyssa, who wonders if anyone is going to be left to actually
play in front of Price at this rate

[Chuck]

Bag of used pucks would be a better deal. PJ Stock? Isn't he related to a HNIC big wig? Otherwise why is he still around