Fedorov Criticism
Laertes007
I'm trying to understand some of the Red Wing fan criticism of this mega-star.
After looking at this newsgroup and reading reports from the Freep, I think I
have
an inkling of what's going on. Can someone explain what's going on here?
The way I see it. Fedorov's work ethic is seen as questionable because he's
not putting up Hart Trophy numbers every year. Fans are angry that he's
demanding Sakic money and playing time at center-- and that he's not playing.
I have to come to the guy's defense until someone can clarify this for me more.
I look at guy, who even in an off year, was a top scorer in league. Even the
guy's critics accept that he's probably the best defensive center in the
league. Great defensive player without work ethic . . . hmmm. The guy would
not go to Moscow,
but neither did Konstantinov. Fedorov did not celebrate over there, because
his friend and team-mate was in bad shape. For Christ sake, anyone would love
to have this guy on their team as a center, and Bowman humiliates him by
moving him back to Defense -- which Fedorov plays humbly. Despite an ugly
contract dispute, Fedorov has not sought a trade. There are plenty of teams
that would not hesitate to pay him the $6million he wants. If it was all
about money, he'd be leaving. Even more than Yzerman, I associate Fedorov
with Detroit hockey.
Dick Trickle
In article <19971011143...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
laert...@aol.com said...
> I'm trying to understand some of the Red Wing fan criticism of this
> mega-star. After looking at this newsgroup and reading reports from
> the Freep, I think I have an inkling of what's going on. Can someone
> explain what's going on here?
>
> The way I see it. Fedorov's work ethic is seen as questionable because
> he's not putting up Hart Trophy numbers every year.
His work ethic is seen as questionable because his effort from game to
game is very inconsistant. I can't speak for others, but I don't
expect 3 points a game. But I do expect an inspired effort 90% of the
time (recognizing that everyone has a bad game now and then)
> Fans are angry that he's demanding Sakic money and playing time at
> center-- and that he's not playing.
Holdouts are a fact of life nowadays. I don't think they're angry
because he's looking for big bucks. Most just don't think he has
proven he's worth it (there is a difference). I do question his
motives when he asks for guarantees about what position he'll play,
which wingers he has and how much ice time he'll get. Unheard of
concessions that sound pretty self-serving to me.
> I have to come to the guy's defense until someone can clarify this
> for me more. I look at guy, who even in an off year, was a top
> scorer in league. Even the guy's critics accept that he's probably
> the best defensive center in the league. Great defensive player
> without work ethic . . . hmmm.
When he wants to be, he could be the best defensive player in the
league. That's part of the problem. These people you're talking about
will probably concede that they are referring to when he's on top of
his game. However, that doesn't happen often enough, IMO.
> The guy would not go to Moscow, but neither did Konstantinov.
Sheesh, if Feds was in a hospital bed we'd probably cut him some
slack.
> Fedorov did not celebrate over there, because his friend and
> team-mate was in bad shape.
Feds didn't go because his girlfriend has his balls in her back
pocket. You make it sound as if he spent the summer camping out in
Vladdie's room instead of globetrotting with his girlfriend.
> For Christ sake, anyone would love to have this guy on their team
> as a center, and Bowman humiliates him by moving him back to
> Defense
Bowman had to resort to such tactics to get Fedorov off his ass. And
if you didn't notice, Fedorov's play before and after the move was
like night and day. Fedorov, like many other players, needed a swift
kick in the pants. His big problem is that he needs them too often.
> -- which Fedorov plays humbly.
Wow, he did what he was asked to do. What a hero. If he did it with a
good attitude and gave 100%, then we'd have something to talk about.
> Despite an ugly contract dispute, Fedorov has not sought a trade.
He would welcome a trade with open arms. The only reason he hasn't
PUBLICLY sought a trade is because he knows that, for the moment,
Detroit has no plans to get rid of him and they hold all the cards.
> There are plenty of teams that would not hesitate to pay him the
> $6million he wants.
So what. Just because a team may be willing to give someone X amount
of money doesn't mean he's worth it. His value will be determined by
what the Wings sign him for or by what they trade him for. What other
teams think is irrelevant.
> If it was all about money, he'd be leaving.
It's not all about money. Fedorov is under the impression that he
deserves some kind of special treatment (i.e. the contract concessions
he's asked for). He thinks that because he won the Hart a while ago
and since he's Nike's posterboy, that he should be the center of
attention whenever he's on the ice. Apparently, he thinks that this
(along with a big contract) will somehow earn him the respect and
admiration of the Detroit fans (which I beleive is what he wants more
than anything). I think he wants to be adored the way Yzerman is.
However, Yzerman exemplifies selflessness whereas Fedorov exemplifies
selfishness. Maybe Sergei got lost in the translation.
> Even more than Yzerman, I associate Fedorov with Detroit hockey.
I associate Yzerman with all that is good about Detroit hockey. I
associate Fedorov with the buttmunch cousin you don't want your
friends to meet.
qu...@vger.net
On 11 Oct 1997 14:31:24 GMT, laert...@aol.com (Laertes007) wrote:
>The way I see it. Fedorov's work ethic is seen as questionable because he's
> not putting up Hart Trophy numbers every year. Fans are angry that he's
> demanding Sakic money and playing time at center-- and that he's not playing.
Fedorov's work ethic is questioned because he does not show up every
night, not because he doen't put up Hart numbers.
>>I have to come to the guy's defense until someone can clarify this for me more.
>I look at guy, who even in an off year, was a top scorer in league. Even the
> guy's critics accept that he's probably the best defensive center in the
> league. Great defensive player without work ethic . . . hmmm. The guy would
> not go to Moscow,
>but neither did Konstantinov. Fedorov did not celebrate over there, because
> his friend and team-mate was in bad shape. For Christ sake, anyone would love
> to have this guy on their team as a center, and Bowman humiliates him by
> moving him back to Defense -- which Fedorov plays humbly. Despite an ugly
> contract dispute, Fedorov has not sought a trade. There are plenty of teams
> that would not hesitate to pay him the $6million he wants. If it was all
> about money, he'd be leaving. Even more than Yzerman, I associate Fedorov
> with Detroit hockey.
Let's not compare Fed and Vlad when it comes to going to Moscow, huh?
Vlad is hospitalized and couldn't go anyway. Fed didn't go because he
has no love for his mother country. Period. Moscow is a non issue.
And when it comes to heart, Fed can't begin to wish he had the heart
that Vladimir has.
Bowman put Feds on D because Feds was not producing. Plain and
simple. And when he put him back where he belonged, Feds started
playing the game he was capable of playing. Instead of learning the
lesson like a man, Feds pouts like his little girlfriend.
No teams will pay him the six mill because they all know Ilitch will
match. Even making an offer would be stupid, and GMs are not.
And finally, if you associate Feds more with the Wings than Yzerman,
you must be a recent fan or bandwagoner. Yzerman has paid his dues.
Fedorov has not.
All of that said. I want to see Feds back in uniform as much as
everyone else. Hockey is a business as well as a sport. When the
business is taken care of, Feds will play the sport.
Finally, as long as the Wings continue to win without him, Feds is
only hurting himself by staying out. Every game the Wings win sans
Fedorov, hurts his bargaining postition.
Hal
Josh
qu...@vger.net wrote in article <3440c97e...@news.voyager.net>...
> On 11 Oct 1997 14:31:24 GMT, laert...@aol.com (Laertes007) wrote:
>
>
> >The way I see it. Fedorov's work ethic is seen as questionable because
he's
> > not putting up Hart Trophy numbers every year. Fans are angry that
he's
> > demanding Sakic money and playing time at center-- and that he's not
playing.
>
> Fedorov's work ethic is questioned because he does not show up every
> night, not because he doen't put up Hart numbers.
Who cares about the regular season? He showed up in the playoffs and thats
all that counts.
EXCUSE ME! Vlady has no love for Russia either. This whole Fedorov not
going thing would have not been a big deal if Vlady wouldn't have been
hurt. Vlady wouldn't have gone, and I bet no one would have bitched.
>
> Bowman put Feds on D because Feds was not producing. Plain and
> simple. And when he put him back where he belonged, Feds started
> playing the game he was capable of playing. Instead of learning the
> lesson like a man, Feds pouts like his little girlfriend.
I defend Bowmans move.
>
> No teams will pay him the six mill because they all know Ilitch will
> match. Even making an offer would be stupid, and GMs are not.
Yeah...thats why we don't have Fedorov yet. I sortof wish a team would make
an offer so we could match and get Fedorov back on the ice.
>
> And finally, if you associate Feds more with the Wings than Yzerman,
> you must be a recent fan or bandwagoner. Yzerman has paid his dues.
> Fedorov has not.
Every Wings player is a Red Wing. When I think of the Wings, I think of
everyone.
>
> All of that said. I want to see Feds back in uniform as much as
> everyone else. Hockey is a business as well as a sport. When the
> business is taken care of, Feds will play the sport.
I hope it's soon.
>
> Finally, as long as the Wings continue to win without him, Feds is
> only hurting himself by staying out. Every game the Wings win sans
> Fedorov, hurts his bargaining postition.
Well, the Wings may be winning now. But...this team can not repeat without
Fedorov.
Josh
>
> Hal
>
Mary A. Giordano
Josh (jos...@freenet.columbus.oh.us) wrote:
: EXCUSE ME! Vlady has no love for Russia either. This whole Fedorov not
: going thing would have not been a big deal if Vlady wouldn't have been
: hurt. Vlady wouldn't have gone, and I bet no one would have bitched.
This isn't true. Konstantinov HAD been planning on going to Russia and had
been speaking with his teammates about it even before the Cup was won.
He may have held no love for Russia in terms of wanting to leave there and
making a better life for himself and his family, but that doesn't mean he
wouldn't have gone back to visit. Vladdie was a true team player who wouldn't
have let down his teammates nor the children in Russia who derive hope from
seeing their sports heroes in person. All this, of course, is of far less
importance than Fedorov's on-ice performance, but at the same time, it
demonstrates why he won't be shaking off the "selfish" label anytime soon.
Tericloth
In article <MPG.ea9b08ae...@news.up.net>, lo...@the.track (Dick
Trickle) writes:
>Feds didn't go because his girlfriend has his balls in her back
>pocket. You make it sound as if he spent the summer camping out in
>Vladdie's room instead of globetrotting with his girlfriend.
Actually, of all the Russian players, Feds was the first to hit the road......
teri in sw michigan
Tericloth
In article <19971011143...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
laert...@aol.com (Laertes007) writes:
> The guy would
> not go to Moscow,
>but neither did Konstantinov. Fedorov did not celebrate over there, because
> his friend and team-mate was in bad shape.
Konstantinov didn't go because he is not physically capable of making the
trip. And Vlad's condition had nothing to do with Fed's not going. Try to
get your facts straight before starting a discussion.
teri in sw michigan
RainKing05
>I have no problem with Feds earning $8 mil....the key word here is
>"earning." Again, I state, give him a flat salary of $5 mil with enough
>bonuses to earn the 8....Of course, you won't see him agree to this any
>time soon since his agent can't collect on a potential earning of $8
>mil...only on the guranteed $5 mil......
Teri for once we agree... sort of. If that were to happen, we'd need Fedorov
to concentrate solely on offense. But I don't think he can, not many Selke
winners do. I think he's already earned more than he's getting by the defense
he's not getting credit for.
Tericloth
In article <01bcd74f$ef4b29c0$7245b6cd@notreal>, "Josh"
<jos...@freenet.columbus.oh.us> writes:
>Who cares about the regular season? He showed up in the playoffs and thats
>all that counts.
I get so tired of hearing this. Yzerman shows up in the regular season
and playoffs....So do most of the rest of the guys. And who says the
regular season doesn't count? You can't get to the playoffs sitting on
your ass and picking your nose (which, it appears, Josh is wont to do). It
drags the rest of the team down mentally as well as physically to have a
teammate who gives less than his best effort on such a consistent basis and
then demands star payment.
I have no problem with Feds earning $8 mil....the key word here is
"earning." Again, I state, give him a flat salary of $5 mil with enough
bonuses to earn the 8....Of course, you won't see him agree to this any
time soon since his agent can't collect on a potential earning of $8
mil...only on the guranteed $5 mil......
teri in sw michigan
Susan Carroll-Clark
Greetings!
> And Vlad's condition had nothing to do with Fed's not going.
He's claimed otherwise. Me, I just think he has no interest in going
back to Russia. I honestly don't really blame him for that, although
I think he'd come off as more sincere had he not been spotted at
beaucoup tennis tourneys over the summer.
I think if Vlad *hadn't* been injured, Feds might have acted differently.
Konstantinov has always seemed like a stabilizing, good influence on Feds.
God, I'm missing that guy.
cheers--
smcc
Laertes007
Fedorov himself said in an interview that was an important factor in
his decision not to go to Moscow.
RONALD HARPER
I'm probably going to catch some heat on this one, but in my opinion
Fedorov is a spoiled baby with a bad attitude. He doesn't come to play
every nite, and I am of the opinion that he is not a "team" player, with
all the whining about playing defense last season. When he is on his
game he is the best two way forward in the NHL, but there are too many
teammates and players around the league who began to question his work
ethic the last couple of seasons.
If the Wings continue to do well, as they will, his bargaining leverage
will decline even further and if the holdout lasts until mid-November or
so I see the team taking a serious look at trading him. This team has
the chemistry to repeat as champions and there is no need to risk
upsetting that by catering to this spoiled baby.
Cheers,
Ron H.
TNTKROL
guy and he is a great player, but he alone is not the team. Like you
said, he needs to be a team player. On a team like Detroit, you need to
do what is best for the team, not what is good for me. And that always
seems to be Fedorovs attitude.
TMK
Olof Oberg
Christopher Estep wrote:
[snip]
> As much as I hate to say it, the best example of a great team player is
> Eric Lindros. No contract, but where is he? On the ice leading his
> team.
[snip]
Uh.. that 'great' player has a contract. He just wanted to get
more money this year instead of next.
/mill
--
#############################################################
# mil...@SPAMludd.luth.se # http://pedgr571.sn.umu.se/~mill #
#############################################################
Julie Ansell
3 cheers to that! I for one won't give you any heat for this opinion!
Julie
Tericloth
In article <19971017155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
laert...@aol.com (Laertes007) writes:
>Fedorov himself said in an interview that was an important factor in
>his decision not to go to Moscow.
Oh...so he's going to say in an interview: "I didn't go to Moscow because
I was too busy keeping my 16 year-old, spoiled brat of a girlfriend happy?"
Puleeze. No one on the team is closer to Vlad than Papa Bear.....and he
led the group TO MOscow!!
teri in sw michigan
Tericloth
In article <MPG.eb215d01...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
es...@ix.netcom.com (Christopher Estep) writes:
>As much as I hate to say it, the best example of a great team player is
>Eric Lindros. No contract, but where is he? On the ice leading his
>team.
Uh...Eric Lindros DOES have a contract. It is up at the end of THIS
season when he becomes a restricted free agent......
teri in sw michigan
RONALD HARPER
Maybe you didnt hear me the first time Randy... Sergei Fedorov is a
spoiled brat. I will give you some credit for the "Fair Market Value"
theory, you are very right there, but how do you figure Fedorov deserves
to be paid more than everybody else in the league? His work ethic has
been questionable for some time now, and several of his teammates have
openly questioned his commitment to the team for his whining about
playing defense. Where is it written that the Detroit Red Wings must
pamper this guy to make him happy? If Scotty wants him to drive the
Zamboni for the team, it is Sergei's responsibility as a TEAM player to
do it, not whine about it.
And as far as ice time goes there are 23 other guys out there in red and
white who do their job without complaining about their ice time...
because they are TEAM players who will sacrifice for the good of the
Detroit Red Wings. See that???? the DETROIT RED WINGS, not the Detroit
Fedorov's. If the guy had any balls at all (actually he doesn't-
Kournikova has them) he would have done the honorable thing and come to
camp and played anyway, but no, he has to insult his fans and teammates
who have supported him through the half baked efforts he has given us by
sitting out. Tell me Randy, what has changed between the year Sergei won
the Hart trophy and now???? Try his effort, work ethic, and attitude for
starters.
I would have loved to have seen the Wings get Mark
Messier back during the off season. Now there is a guy with some
integrity and a work ethic. Old Mess would have put up with about two
minutes of Fedorovs bull capital S with a hit before he would have
bought him a plane ticket and shipped his butt back to Russia.
Why would the Wings want to pay a guy all that money when he only shows
up half the time? I dont blame them at all for letting him sit.
Take care,
Ron H.
Vladimir Ryjkov
>I'm probably going to catch some heat on this one, but in my opinion
>Fedorov is a spoiled baby with a bad attitude. He doesn't come to play
>every nite, and I am of the opinion that he is not a "team" player, with
>all the whining about playing defense last season.
to score 100 points. Fedorov's problem is not with the team, it's with
the media and fans who beleive in newspapers more than in their own
eyes.
S Visscher
Susan Carroll-Clark <scl...@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
: He's claimed otherwise. Me, I just think he has no interest in going
: back to Russia. I honestly don't really blame him for that, although
: I think he'd come off as more sincere had he not been spotted at
: beaucoup tennis tourneys over the summer.
Enough ragging on him for not going back to Russia! Let's not forget that
Russia is still not the safest place for star athletes who flee their
homeland for better fortunes elsewhere. Larionov and Fetisov put in many
years for Russian hockey, but Sergei left as a teenager(maybe he was 20 or
21). The point is, nobody knows what was going through Sergei's mind. We
have often heard rumors of mafia connections and extortion threats
(Bure,Mogilny...). It is very possible that Sergei has been the target of
similar threats. In any case, it was his personal decision and we have to
respect that!
steve v.
Susan Carroll-Clark
Greetings!
I do think Feds is shooting himself in the foot by holding out at this point--
however, he does not have a contract right now. Playing without a contract
is a really bad move.
I honestly think the truth about Feds is somewhere in the middle. Compared
to the Barry Bonds and Dennis Rodmans of the world, Feds is the
portrait of maturity. However, matched up against people like Stevie Y,
he's deficient in that really obvious kind of team leadership. I do think
he's immature, but NOT a spoiled brat. No one's saying that about Kariya--
and the Ducks without him haven't a chance in hell of going anywhere.
And everyone's forgotten some of his better points--playing in the
Cup finals with cracked ribs, taking the Cup around to all of the trainers
to hold, that kind of thing. Feds is human. Some times I think he needs
a good ass-whuppin'; other times, what he does on the ice blows me away.
I think the problem is that we like to think hockey players are
different--that they're regular joes, hard workers, the blue collar guys
of the sports world. The business of hockey, unfortunately, is ruining
that. As much as I loved those Nike commercials, I fondly remember the
days where Sergei Fedorov was this almost unknown with blinding speed
that only a few people knew about. Not everyone is able to resist the
allure of money waved in one's face.
cheers--
smcc
Josh
Tericloth <teri...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971016120...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> In article <01bcd74f$ef4b29c0$7245b6cd@notreal>, "Josh"
> <jos...@freenet.columbus.oh.us> writes:
>
> >Who cares about the regular season? He showed up in the playoffs and
thats
> >all that counts.
>
> I get so tired of hearing this. Yzerman shows up in the regular season
> and playoffs....So do most of the rest of the guys. And who says the
> regular season doesn't count? You can't get to the playoffs sitting on
> your ass and picking your nose (which, it appears, Josh is wont to do).
It
> drags the rest of the team down mentally as well as physically to have a
> teammate who gives less than his best effort on such a consistent basis
and
> then demands star payment.
I get so tired of hearing the regular season counts. I remember 95-96
thinking the cup was in the mail, but look what happen. I don't want our
players going out peaking durning the regular season and losing everything
in the playoffs. The team in 96-97 didn't really play all that well in the
regular season. I would rather have the Stanley cup than the Presidents
Throphy.
>
> I have no problem with Feds earning $8 mil....the key word here is
> "earning." Again, I state, give him a flat salary of $5 mil with enough
> bonuses to earn the 8....Of course, you won't see him agree to this any
> time soon since his agent can't collect on a potential earning of $8
> mil...only on the guranteed $5 mil......
So, you would rather have Fedorov try to be a puck hog and score a lot of
goals in the regular season and get hurt a week before the playoffs and not
be in the lineup? Scoring goals is not the only part of hockey, but it's
the only one that ever gets shown on the highlights.
Josh
>
>
> teri in sw michigan
>
>
Josh
Tericloth <teri...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971019152...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Funny, if Vlady was healthy he wouldn't have gone. This whole russia thing
is pointless. But I forgot...everyone pretty much hates Fedorov on here. If
I was Fedorov, I probably wouldn't want to come back with the way all the
fans talk about him. God he led the team in points in the playoffs, what
else does he have to do to make you people happy?
qu...@vger.net
On 22 Oct 1997 04:03:51 GMT, "Josh" <jos...@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
wrote:
>I get so tired of hearing the regular season counts. I remember 95-96
>thinking the cup was in the mail, but look what happen. I don't want our
>players going out peaking durning the regular season and losing everything
>in the playoffs. The team in 96-97 didn't really play all that well in the
>regular season. I would rather have the Stanley cup than the Presidents
>Throphy.
>>
>> I have no problem with Feds earning $8 mil....the key word here is
>> "earning." Again, I state, give him a flat salary of $5 mil with enough
>> bonuses to earn the 8....Of course, you won't see him agree to this any
>> time soon since his agent can't collect on a potential earning of $8
>> mil...only on the guranteed $5 mil......
>
>So, you would rather have Fedorov try to be a puck hog and score a lot of
>goals in the regular season and get hurt a week before the playoffs and not
>be in the lineup? Scoring goals is not the only part of hockey, but it's
>the only one that ever gets shown on the highlights.
>
>Josh
Yeah Josh, and we're so tired of hearing how Fedorov deserves 8
million dollars a year for showing up for 2 months. If Fedorov had
half the cajones of Yzerman, Shanahan, McCarty, Drapes, Brown and half
a dozen other guys on that team, he *might* be worth that kind of
money. As it is, he is nothing more than a prima donna who has to be
coaxed and cajoled into playing when he has a hangnail.
Someday your Fedorov colored glasses will fall off and you'll see him
as he really is. Star--yes, superstar-never happen.
Mike Mihalus
> we're so tired of hearing how Fedorov deserves 8
>million dollars a year for showing up for 2 months.
Whatever contract he signs, it will be pro-rated for the year. For example,
if he signs a $6m contract and plays half a year, he will get $3m.
> As it is, he is nothing more than a prima donna who has to be
>coaxed and cajoled into playing when he has a hangnail.
As I remember, he played a heck of a game with cracked ribs. Ever have
cracked ribs? Ever have someone slam into you when you had cracked
ribs. We're talking pain here.
Mike
Wings fan since 1964
Tericloth
In article <01bcde9e$f747ad00$7145b6cd@notreal>, "Josh"
<jos...@freenet.columbus.oh.us> writes:
> Scoring goals is not the only part of hockey, but it's
>the only one that ever gets shown on the highlights.
That's because know-nothing fans like you think that's all that counts.....
teri in sw michigan
Tericloth
In article <01bcde9f$66c23060$7145b6cd@notreal>, "Josh"
<jos...@freenet.columbus.oh.us> writes:
>Funny, if Vlady was healthy he wouldn't have gone.
Oh Josh...and Vladdy told you this personally?? Hate to disagree but,
Slava went, Vladdy would probably have gone with him if he could have.
There is alot of loyalty there.
teri in sw michigan
Mike Mihalus
In article <344e0cf5...@news.voyager.net> qu...@vger.net writes:
>Lindros is negotiating his contract and playing
>too.
Lindros has a contract. He wants an extension. Federov doesn't have a
contract.
> Get it?
I do.
Mike Mihalus
>That's because know-nothing fans like you think that's all that counts.....
I'm going to take another stab at this.
Frankly, I can see the temptation in getting into a name-calling scrap with an
Av's fan, and I can see how people can want to make their opinion more valid
that the opinions of others. However, maybe we can AT LEAST stop the name
calling when it comes to other Wings fans who happen to have a differing
opinion. Is it possible?
Maybe not, but it was worth a shot.
bill...@earthlink.net
Fedorov has every right to hold out for more money. This IS America,
isn't it? His behavior, right or wrong, is of no importance to me
outside of what he does on the ice. The only requirement that I have
are that his actions legal! We, the Wings' fans and media, will always
find fault and snipe at "overpaid" athletes who act what we collectively
judge to be outside of what "is good for the team."
We tend to forget that the average duration for an NHL player is just a
few years. Sergei and Vlady should remind us that our lives and
livelihoods are fleeting, and we should make the most of our current
situations. Let's not blow this holdout out of hand! Besides, one of
the major sticking points of the negotiations is his role on the team,
i.e. playing time, position, ect.
Come playoff time, we will all forget this little "blip" in his career.
I firmly believe that Feds is a character player who will show up to
play. Let's not write or say anything that will make him want to leave
Detroit. We do need someone of his ability and heart.
Regards,
Bill Klein
bill...@earthlink.net
RONALD HARPER
Thats easy Josh... Grow up.
RONALD HARPER
Right on, Hal. I couldn't have said it better. Josh, you just don't get
it, do you? I am talking about his performance on the ice, and I could
care less what he did for Shanny or how he made sure the trainers got a
chance to hold the cup. That has absolutely nothing to do with it. The
main reason this guy wants a 4 year deal and not a 5 is because he is
more concerned with money than anything else. If he gets a 4 year
contract, he (Surprise!!!) comes up for a new contract the exact same
year he becomes eligible for unrestricted free agency. In most cases,
the market has a huge bearing on what a player can earn, I'm not
disputing that, but I just feel that Sergei has not shown me that he
deserves that kind of money. The guy only shows up when he feels like it
and his complaining about where Scotty uses him shows me that he is not
a team player. I think when all factors are considered it comes down to
one thing... Fedorov is more concerned with doing what will give him
more exposure and land him in the highlight films than what is good for
the Detroit Red Wings. If the guy was really a team player like Josh
says he is, he would be out there on the ice and playing while
negotiating his contract. THAT would show me the guy is a team player.
qu...@vger.net
On 22 Oct 1997 04:06:53 GMT, "Josh" <jos...@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
wrote:
Josh, you obviously don't know squat. Vladdy would have gone to
Russia. His wife affirmed that in an interview
As for everyone hating Sergei, you don't know what you're talking
about there either. Lindros is negotiating his contract and playing
too. So did LeClair. Why not Fedorov? He too good to play while his
contract is being negotiated, or just listening to what his agent is
blowing in his ear? The market is not 8 million and Fedorov won't get
it. It's not Fedorov we dislike, it's his prima donna act. Get it?
Don't try to be a Wings expert from Columbus. You're making yourself
look bad.
Hal
Dirk Hoag
>
>As much as I hate to say it, the best example of a great team player is
>Eric Lindros. No contract, but where is he? On the ice leading his
>team.
Uh, not exactly. Lindros IS under contract - his negotiations with the Flyers
involve an extension beyond 1997-98. A better example would be Slava Kozlov,
who kept in shape by playing with minor teams and was so eager to get back in
the lineup that he suffered a charley horse in his first game. He let his
agent do the dirty work, then wanted to rejoin his teammates as soon as
possible.
--
Dirk Hoag
Ypsi Hockey Club, #35
Ann Arbor Winter C Rec League
E-mail me at: senna @ umich . edu
(Don't reply via my USENET posts)
***********************************************************
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Mike Mihalus
> If the guy was really a team player like Josh
>says he is, he would be out there on the ice and playing while
>negotiating his contract. THAT would show me the guy is a team player.
I have to disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong (without calling me names), but I
can't remember the last time any player without a contract played anyway. It
would be a highly unintelligent move. All a player has is his talent and, in
this case, an agreement which restricts his ability to go anywhere else to
play hockey.
If he were to blow out a knee or suffer any career-threatening or
career-ending injury while playing without a contract, he's toast. I don't
think Yzerman or Shanahan, or Mother Teresa (if she were still with us) would
play without a contract. Well, maybe Mother Teresa would, but she never had
much of a backhand anyway.
I'm not happy Federov isn't out there, but I don't question his value to the
team, or his decision to not play without a contract. And, if he thinks he's
worth (insert $$ amt. here), then he has the right to not play for one dollar
less. The same as the rest of us.
Nestor Ocampo
In article <626n0e$a...@chass.utoronto.ca>,
Susan Carroll-Clark <scl...@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
:> And Vlad's condition had nothing to do with Fed's not going.
:He's claimed otherwise. Me, I just think he has no interest in going
:back to Russia.
its been publicized that the russian maffia made extortion threats,
perhaps even threats on his health. i wouldnt blame him one iota for
his decision.
:I think if Vlad *hadn't* been injured, Feds might have acted differently.
:Konstantinov has always seemed like a stabilizing, good influence on Feds.
vlad was fedorov's strongest ally on the team. yes kozlov is a closer
friend, but he carried less clout. with vladdie's influence, no doubt
the matters would have been resolved much earlier...
--
\|/ Nestor Ocampo
(.~.) Biological Sciences
oO(_)Oo University of Windsor, Canada
RONALD HARPER
No way would I call you names, Mike. You have an excellent point. I will
stick to my guns about Sergei being a whiner, but you do make a lot of
sense talking about the risk factor involved in playing without a
contract. Lets just say we agree to disagree, hows that?
Take care,
Ron H.
RONALD HARPER
Whaaaaat????? The defense he doesnt get credit for??????? We do not want
Sergei to concentrate solely on offense either, that would be a rather
foolish move, dont you think?
When are you pro-Sergei people going to get the message? He DOESNT
deserve what he is getting paid right now because he only shows up half
the time! I'm not going to call anyone dumb or stupid or anything like
that because I respect people with the opposing opinion, but how many
times do we have to go over this before some of us out here who call
themselves hockey fans see that all we are getting right now from this
guy is smoke and mirrors.
Cheers,
Ron H.
Susan Carroll-Clark
Greetings!
> If the guy was really a team player like Josh
>says he is, he would be out there on the ice and playing while
>negotiating his contract. THAT would show me the guy is a team player.
What other players without contracts are currently playing? What
other players without contracts have *ever* played? A player with no contract
has no insurance, no guarantee of pay, no security. And in this business
of sports, you can't exactly trust that the owners are going to take care
of you.
As I've said all along, Feds' strength is not his leadership. But to fault
him for not playing when he has no contract shows remarkable lack of knowledge
about what a contract entails. Would YOU go work for someone without
a contract? Believe me, I'm a freelance editor, and working without a contract
is a sure way to get screwed over.
Yes, Feds is no Steve Yzerman. But who else is? Sign the guy to a
nice incentive laden contract which rewards him for good performance,
and let's get on with hockey.
cheers--
smcc
DKP
If he's worried about possible injury he can go out and get an
insurance policy to cover possible injury. Based on receiving $5
million yearly his not playing has cost him about $500,OOO.
DKP
change net.com to earthlink.net to e-mail me.
Ross Mikalson
On 10/22/97, Mike Mihalus wrote:
>In article <62l8ja$krs$1...@newsd-1.alma.webtv.net> Star...@webtv.net
(RONALD HARPER) writes:
>think Yzerman or Shanahan, or Mother Teresa (if she were still with
us) would
>play without a contract. Well, maybe Mother Teresa would, but she
never had
>much of a backhand anyway.
Mike:
It is well known around the Hooly docks in Calcutta (a little south of
the Howrah bridge) that Mother Teresa had an exceptional backhand...
In 1953, a naive leper tried to get fresh with her saintliness, and
WHAMMO, there went his lips, nose, and one ear!!
--
Roscoe... the High Country Bear
Ross Mikalson [mika...@cuug.ab.ca]
Chris W.
I know this isn't about hockey, but I saw Fed's 16 year-old squeeze on
Jay Leno not too long ago.......Boy, somebody needs to take her across
their knee and give her an old-fashioned ass whupping. What a little
bitch.
--Chris
On 19 Oct 1997 15:26:31 GMT, teri...@aol.com (Tericloth) wrote:
>In article <19971017155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
>laert...@aol.com (Laertes007) writes:
>
>>Fedorov himself said in an interview that was an important factor in
>>his decision not to go to Moscow.
>
>Oh...so he's going to say in an interview: "I didn't go to Moscow because
>I was too busy keeping my 16 year-old, spoiled brat of a girlfriend happy?"
> Puleeze. No one on the team is closer to Vlad than Papa Bear.....and he
>led the group TO MOscow!!
>
>
>
>
>
>teri in sw michigan
>
Josh
James V. Reagan <jre...@mcs.net> wrote in article
<344E79E2...@mcs.net>...
> Josh wrote:
> >
> > Tericloth <teri...@aol.com> wrote in article
> > <19971019152...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> > > In article <19971017155...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> > > laert...@aol.com (Laertes007) writes:
> > >
> > > >Fedorov himself said in an interview that was an important factor in
> > > >his decision not to go to Moscow.
> > >
> > > Oh...so he's going to say in an interview: "I didn't go to Moscow
because
> > > I was too busy keeping my 16 year-old, spoiled brat of a girlfriend
> > happy?"
> > > Puleeze. No one on the team is closer to Vlad than Papa
Bear.....and he
> > > led the group TO MOscow!!
> > >
> >
> > Funny, if Vlady was healthy he wouldn't have gone. This whole russia
thing
> > is pointless. But I forgot...everyone pretty much hates Fedorov on
here. If
> > I was Fedorov, I probably wouldn't want to come back with the way all
the
> > fans talk about him. God he led the team in points in the playoffs,
what
> > else does he have to do to make you people happy?
> >
> > Josh
>
> There you go again with your Fedorov facts, Josh. Just how is the
> anti-Fedorov society supposed to bitch and moan if you keep correcting
> them? I think we should have an RFD for alt.fedorov.whiners.
No, everyone points at every little thing with Fedorov. I didn't hear
anyone bitching about Yzerman only getting 20 goals last season. Does that
mean Yzerman isn't worth anything to this team?
Josh
>
> --
> James V. Reagan
> Java & OOA/D Consulting, Mentoring, and Development
> mailto:jre...@mcs.net
>
Josh
RONALD HARPER <Star...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<62l8ja$krs$1...@newsd-1.alma.webtv.net>...
> Right on, Hal. I couldn't have said it better. Josh, you just don't get
> it, do you? I am talking about his performance on the ice, and I could
> care less what he did for Shanny or how he made sure the trainers got a
> chance to hold the cup. That has absolutely nothing to do with it. The
> main reason this guy wants a 4 year deal and not a 5 is because he is
> more concerned with money than anything else. If he gets a 4 year
> contract, he (Surprise!!!) comes up for a new contract the exact same
> year he becomes eligible for unrestricted free agency. In most cases,
> the market has a huge bearing on what a player can earn, I'm not
> disputing that, but I just feel that Sergei has not shown me that he
> deserves that kind of money. The guy only shows up when he feels like it
> and his complaining about where Scotty uses him shows me that he is not
> a team player. I think when all factors are considered it comes down to
> one thing... Fedorov is more concerned with doing what will give him
> more exposure and land him in the highlight films than what is good for
> the Detroit Red Wings. If the guy was really a team player like Josh
> says he is, he would be out there on the ice and playing while
> negotiating his contract. THAT would show me the guy is a team player.
>
You don't get it do you? If Fedorov only cared about himself, why did he
help Shanahan? He knew Shanahan would take away from some of his press. If
he cared about that, he would have had a grudge against Shanny from the
begining.
Josh
A.Trifonov
About Sergei Fedorov.
Sergei now trains in Moscow and prepares to play with the former team CSKA
Moscow.
CSKA Fan
qu...@vger.net
On 30 Oct 1997 06:38:47 GMT, "Josh" <jos...@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
wrote:
>You don't get it do you? If Fedorov only cared about himself, why did he
>help Shanahan? He knew Shanahan would take away from some of his press. If
>he cared about that, he would have had a grudge against Shanny from the
>begining.
>
>Josh
>
>
And if you think Feds is that important to the Wings, tell it to the
fans in the Red Wings chat group. They'll rip you to shreds.
Hal
Vladimir Ryjkov
>>You don't get it do you? If Fedorov only cared about himself, why did he
>>help Shanahan? He knew Shanahan would take away from some of his press. If
>>he cared about that, he would have had a grudge against Shanny from the
>>begining.
>>Josh
>And if you think Feds is that important to the Wings, tell it to the
>fans in the Red Wings chat group.
Well, it tells me more about people hanging out in the chat rooms
than about Fedorov's importance to the Wings.
> They'll rip you to shreds.
>
>Hal
Do not give up on your own efforts yet :)
Vladimir
RainKing05
>And if you think Feds is that important to the Wings, tell it to the
>
>Hal
>
>
>
>
>
First what does the importance of Fedorov to the Wings have to do with what
people say in chat rooms? Second what is with the Fedorov bashing? The
Russia business was pathetic. I think going back to Russia was worse than
staying here. Think about it, if they were happy there, would they have left?
It's like a slap in the face to the home land... look we left you for
America, and look at us know. So then what's the problem, money. Sergei
might have a slightly large ego, but look at Lindross. Spouting on about how
he deserves to be the highest paid player in the NHL. Last I checked Fedorov
wasn't asking for that. I mean it's a great thought for people to play for
free. That's the way it should be. But Hal, welcome to the real world.
Take of your rose colored glasses... They're playing for money. And this is
America, the land they came to. So they can hold out for whatever they think
they're worth. Maybe if he was happier in Detroit, without the booing or the
fued with Bowman or being criticized by the home crowd, then maybe he'd have a
bit more loyalty... then maybe he'd be playing for less. I doubt it, but it
might've happened.
Really, just because the fans are disappointed doesn't mean he's not worth
anything. They need someone to blame.
Tericloth
In article <01bce490$96195f40$d142...@p209-n66.dip.aha.ru>, "A.Trifonov"
<le...@aha.ru> writes:
Kinda shoots down Josh's theory that Sergei didn't make the trip to Russia
with the Cup because he hates Russia and had no desire to go....Sounds more
to me like he had already decided he was no longer part of the team. Let
him stay in Moscow....
teri in sw michigan
RainKing05
>Josh's theory that Sergei didn't make the trip to Russia
>with the Cup because he hates Russia and had no desire to go...
So, your reasoning is this???
That because he plays for a team, he loves the place... Like how he at one
point played for Detroit, and he loved it so much he's playing for free,
right!?!?!? Just because you're on a team doesn't mean you like the place.
RONALD HARPER
Give up Hal, its a lost cause. Just when you think you have made a good
point and maybe Josh will understand where we are coming from, he comes
back with more senseless bull capital S with a hit and we start all over
again. As you said, this guy has rose colored glasses on and won't take
them off.
And as far as Vladimir Royjkov goes, who the hell does HE think HE is to
insult all of us? "That tells me about the people who hang out in these
chat groups"???? The breadth, width, and depth of the ignorance of a
statement like that is just breathtaking. I guess the poor guy thinks
this is personal, and we're all anti-Russian. Absolutely ridiculous, but
I guess it's still to complicated for some to figure out.
On a brighter note- Happy Halloween to all.
Cheers,
Ron H.
RainKing05
>We've never booed Yzerman for a reason, assmunch. He's never given us a
>reason to.
>
>
Please, oh enlightened one. Show me the reasons behind Fedorov's booing? I
know when people call names, it usually means they have no other defense...
but I see your point. Yzerman has had some rather pathetic seasons... and
Fedorov has had much nicer ones. So Yzerman is better. And Yzerman drops to
stop a few shots... and Sergei actually goes and shuts the play down
defensively. So Yzerman is better. Yzerman had 14 years of failing... how
many did Fedorov have? But of course, that's a plus for Yzerman.
Seriously that is pathetic... if Fedorov deserves to be booed, than Yzerman
should be dragged out into the street and beaten like a dog. If you actually
have a reason, please post it. Unsupported thoughts and name-calling sure
proves your point.
> Steve Yzerman is almost the entire reason the Red
>Wings are in the playoffs in the first place...
Nice touch of sarcasm. Unless you are serious, then I pity your hockey sense.
I'll tell you Yzerman never floated the team in the playoffs. He had a small
part, but it was the team. 14 years of Yzerman's help... he couldn't do it
alone, follow me... I can cover it again if you like. I see your point
here... rather unimpressive season from Yzerman, we win the cup... and he's
the reason we're there? Fedorov did a bit more than Yzerman to get us there...
David Klecha
RainKing05 <raink...@aol.com> wrote:
: >That is Fedorov's problem: not enough
: >heart.
: As soon as I see someone get booed and have heart and loyalty towards a
: team... I mean really, when was the last time you booed Yzerman as he
: failed you in the playoffs time and time again?
Yeah... *nod* Yeah... *nod* I can almost see where you're coming from... I
mean, for so many years, Steve Yzerman is almost the entire reason the Red
Wings are in the playoffs in the first place... And then the intensity
gets stepped up, like we all know it does... And the team crumbles...
Well shit!! We'd better drop Yzerman now before he comes three votes shy
of the Conn Smythe again!! What do we see in the guy anyhow... I mean,
just because he's given 1000% (yes, three zeroes) to this team and this
town...
We've never booed Yzerman for a reason, assmunch. He's never given us a
reason to.
dk
--
David Klecha---------------------------->kle...@bugsy.csis.gvsu.edu
| "Hey look! It's not my fault! It's some guy named |
| 'General Protection.'" -Ratbert, 12/18/96 |
Russian Studies/History/CS------------>http://www2.gvsu.edu/~klechad
RainKing05
>Give up Hal, its a lost cause. Just when you think you have made a good
>point and maybe Josh will understand where we are coming from, he comes
>back with more senseless bull capital S with a hit and we start all over
>again. As you said, this guy has rose colored glasses on and won't take
>them off.
I don't think Josh is the one wearing the "rose colored glasses." Maybe it's
just me, but at least he isn't saying... "Yzerman is good." "Fedorov isn't
because he outscored and outplayed the hometown Captain." At least he is
honest. He isn't ignorant to the fact that there are some people who are
better than our Captain.
Wolfman
In article <19971031235...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
raink...@aol.com says...
> >We've never booed Yzerman for a reason, assmunch. He's never given us a
> >reason to.
> >
> Please, oh enlightened one. Show me the reasons behind Fedorov's booing? I
> know when people call names, it usually means they have no other defense...
> but I see your point. Yzerman has had some rather pathetic seasons... and
> Fedorov has had much nicer ones. So Yzerman is better. And Yzerman drops to
> stop a few shots... and Sergei actually goes and shuts the play down
> defensively. So Yzerman is better. Yzerman had 14 years of failing... how
> many did Fedorov have? But of course, that's a plus for Yzerman.
>
> Seriously that is pathetic... if Fedorov deserves to be booed, than Yzerman
> should be dragged out into the street and beaten like a dog. If you actually
> have a reason, please post it. Unsupported thoughts and name-calling sure
> proves your point.
>
The reason we've never booed Yzerman is because he never takes a day
off. Whether he scores 3 goals or finishes -3, we know he's given us
his best effort. I, like most other fans I know, don't boo
performance, we boo a lousy work ethic. If they play hard and lose
that's one thing. But if someone doesn't show up for work every night,
we'll let him have it. Just like we get when we slack off at work.
This is where Fedorov comes in. If he had just quit pouting and went
out and busted his ass EVERY night, I'd be there cheering for him
whether he had a good game or not. Now we read that he wants
unprecedented guarantees about his postion, playing time and linemates
before he'll sign. It's pretty hard to cheer for a self-centered
bedwetter regardless of how talented he is. AFAIC, he can rot in hell.
BTW, how many 'pathetic' seasons has Yzerman had? I'm curious as to
what you consider pathetic. As far as Fedorov having 'much better'
ones, you obviously don't remember the numbers Yzerman put up when he
was his age. Open a stat book and compare Yzerman's numbers his first
8 years with Fedorov's and then try and convince us how much better
Fedorov has been. Yzerman didn't win the Hart because he was competing
with Gretzky and Lemieux when they were in there primes (something
that Fedorov could never do, either). And even if he was asked to
concentrate more on defense in his early years, he still wouldn't have
won the Selke. Back then it was awarded to the best defensive forward.
Fedorov won his during the stretch where the league gave it as a
consolation prize to the best offensive players that happened to play
decent defense. A rut in which the league appears to have gotten out
of after last year's win by Mike Peca.
Bottom line, we never boo Yzerman because he never gave a reason not
to like him (or appreciate him). And by his own actions, Fedorov gives
us more reasons to dislike him than he does to like him. Like the old
saying goes, respect isn't given, it's earned. And Fedorov just hasn't
earned it yet.
RONALD HARPER
Beautiful! Absolutely perfectly stated. THAT is what guys like Josh and
Rain King are having trouble understanding. Thank you Wolfman. Finally,
someone who KNOWS what is going on here and UNDERSTANDS what most of us
have been trying to tell these two guys. Now... Josh and Rain King...
READ WOLFMAN"S POST ONE MORE TIME just in case you still dont get it,
and while you are at it, read Jim's post before that. Another man who
KNOWS Red Wing hockey. And re-read them as many &%#*&^ times as you have
to until you figure out that BETTER is not what we are looking for here.
Then post us back and see if you can come up with a viable response
other than that juvenile "Fedorov is better than Yzerman" shit that you
have been trying to feed us. Christ, my 9 year old son could have come
up with a better line than that.
Once again- Well done Wolfman and Jim!
Cheers,
Ron H.
DKP
On Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:24:14 -0500, "James V. Reagan"
<jre...@mcs.net> wrote:
>Seeing as he doesn't have a contract, his not playing hasn't
>cost him anything.
It has cost him money that he could have earned by playing.
RainKing05
>"Fedorov is better than Yzerman" shit that you
>have been trying to feed us. Christ, my 9 year old son could have come
>up with a better line than that.
First, I never said he was better, personally neither of them are my favorites.
Second, your 9 year old son must have been busy putting out the "Yzerman is
better than Fedorov, just because."
>Well done Wolfman
Yes Well Done! I was just starting to believe that all these posts by Ron and
Hal were proving that actual reasoning wasn't needed. Congratulations on
being the first person to actually have a point. I can't believe you didn't
say something about... "Yzerman is better than Fedorov, just because!" You
actually gave reasons as to why you believe. No ranting, i'm impressed. i
thought only Josh and I could accomplish that.
Tericloth
In article <19971101025...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
raink...@aol.com (RainKing05) writes:
> He isn't ignorant to the fact that there are some people who are
> better than our Captain.
I don't remember anyone saying that. Yzerman is not the greatest hockey
player today. He does have as big of a heart as anyone in the game tho....
teri in sw michigan
Tericloth
Personally, I've never booed either. But Wolfman is 100% correct.
In article <MPG.ec48fc58...@news.up.net>, how...@the.moon
(Wolfman) writes:
>The reason we've never booed Yzerman is because he never takes a day
>off. Whether he scores 3 goals or finishes -3, we know he's given us
>his best effort.
teri in sw michigan