Who is the New OC? Clyde?
W A Collier
is a hell of a candidate.
That being said, who is left out there? Gaily (a good pick to work with
Dungy - he has a "grinder" style offense) is gone to the Phins.
Here are some names:
Redskins:
Terry Robiskie, Passing game coordinator (been there 6 years too).
Bobby Jackson, Running game coordinator (been there 6 years).
Titans:
Les Steckle, OC (if he wants to try to get there from our side of the
league)
But my favorite is probably the hardest to get:
Alex Gibbs, assistant head coach-offensive line Denver Broncos.
Born February 11, 1941, Morganton, N.C., lives in Greenwood Village,
Colo. Running back-defensive back Davidson College 1959-63. No pro
playing experience. College coach: Duke 1969-70, Kentucky 1971-72, West
Virginia 1973-74, Ohio State 1975-78, Auburn 1979-81, Georgia 1982-83.
Pro coach: Denver Broncos 1984-87, Los Angeles Raiders 1988-89, San Diego
Chargers 1990-91, Indianapolis Colts 1992, Kansas City Chiefs 1993-94,
rejoined Broncos in 1995.
One of the best OLine developers in the game. Hire him as OC, get one of
the Skins guys to call the plays and be a QB coach (Probably the passing
game guy).
Artful Dodger
Ray Sherman
"W A Collier" <waco...@sppoboxam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.130448e9b...@news.dimensional.com...
Art
<waco...@sppoboxam.com> wrote:
>I dont think we can afford to go with another first-timer OC, unless he
>is a hell of a candidate.
>
>That being said, who is left out there? Gaily (a good pick to work with
>Dungy - he has a "grinder" style offense) is gone to the Phins.
>
>Here are some names:
>
>Redskins:
>Terry Robiskie, Passing game coordinator (been there 6 years too).
>Bobby Jackson, Running game coordinator (been there 6 years).
>
>Titans:
>Les Steckle, OC (if he wants to try to get there from our side of the
>league)
Actually, my favorite for the position might not be too difficult to
get...
I would love to see us get Mark Richt. The guy has run one of the
most powerful college offenses for the last several years--the FSU
offense. I mean, afterall, we have Monte who spent years at the
college level as a D coordinator and noone in their right mind could
question HIS success.
ART
Andrew Lannen
wrote:
>Actually, my favorite for the position might not be too difficult to
>get...
>
>I would love to see us get Mark Richt. The guy has run one of the
>most powerful college offenses for the last several years--the FSU
>offense. I mean, afterall, we have Monte who spent years at the
>college level as a D coordinator and noone in their right mind could
>question HIS success.
I disagree. I think we need someone with extensive professional
experience. When we got Kiffin, he had 13 years of pro defensive
coaching experience, including two seasons as an NFL defensive
coordinator.
Andrew
George Gregory
does he know how to coordinate a running game?... I don't think he's so great
-- with FSU's talent, they ought to be scoring the way they do -- and why is
it that every time I watch FSU play it seems like their offense is
disjointed?... They never sustain drives, they pretty much live by the big
play... they do not win because of great coaching or scheming -- they
score/win because of superior talent and speed.
Art wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Feb 2000 02:25:15 -0700, W A Collier
> <waco...@sppoboxam.com> wrote:
>
> >I dont think we can afford to go with another first-timer OC, unless he
> >is a hell of a candidate.
> >
> >That being said, who is left out there? Gaily (a good pick to work with
> >Dungy - he has a "grinder" style offense) is gone to the Phins.
> >
> >Here are some names:
> >
> >Redskins:
> >Terry Robiskie, Passing game coordinator (been there 6 years too).
> >Bobby Jackson, Running game coordinator (been there 6 years).
> >
> >Titans:
> >Les Steckle, OC (if he wants to try to get there from our side of the
> >league)
>
> Actually, my favorite for the position might not be too difficult to
> get...
>
> I would love to see us get Mark Richt. The guy has run one of the
> most powerful college offenses for the last several years--the FSU
> offense. I mean, afterall, we have Monte who spent years at the
> college level as a D coordinator and noone in their right mind could
> question HIS success.
>
> ART
MentalTossFlycoon
Artful Dodger <don'tcareto...@thistime.com> wrote in message
news:B%Cm4.6998$8J4....@typhoon2.tampabay.rr.com...
> I am going to keep saying this name until the new OC is decided -
>
> Ray Sherman
>
>
> "W A Collier" <waco...@sppoboxam.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.130448e9b...@news.dimensional.com...
> > I dont think we can afford to go with another first-timer OC, unless he
> > is a hell of a candidate.
> >
> > That being said, who is left out there? Gaily (a good pick to work with
> > Dungy - he has a "grinder" style offense) is gone to the Phins.
> >
> > Here are some names:
> >
> > Redskins:
> > Terry Robiskie, Passing game coordinator (been there 6 years too).
> > Bobby Jackson, Running game coordinator (been there 6 years).
> >
> > Titans:
> > Les Steckle, OC (if he wants to try to get there from our side of the
> > league)
> >
Andrew Lannen
wrote:
>Even though that "talent" never seems to be able to do much in the NFL
>(read: Yatil Green, Reidel Anthony et. al). Seems to me the guy's got
>the ability to get the best out of his players.
Yatil Green = University of Miami
Reidel Anthony = University of Florida
Andrew
Andrew Lannen
wrote:
>think it's all there is would be incredibly shortsighted, but then
>again, since you think an 82.4 QB rating is mediocre (when, if it were
>lifetime, it would rate him about 13th best in football history), we
>have extraordinarly different standards.
And I firmly believe that with the garbage screens and 4 yard outs
that were all King was asked to do, even Walsh could have posted an 82
QB rating. The offense still stunk, though. A QB can complete 80% of
his passes, but it doesn't count for squat when they average only 3-4
yards. It doesn't move the team.
Andrew
Andrew Lannen
wrote:
>Again my fault....
>
>Still, let's consider
>
>Zack Crockett
Was the designated goal line RB for the Raiders by the end of
this season. Given that he was a FB, that ain't bad.
>Danny Kanell
Is now the official annointed "QB of the Future" in Atlanta.
>Warrick Dunn
>Casey Weldon
>Andre Cooper
>Lawrence Dawsey
Dawsey looked really great in his first two Buc seasons. Then he
blew out his knee and was never the samer. A "could have" been.
>EG Green
Too soon to judge. He had a great beginning to this year and then
injured a knee and had to have surgery. He was slow to recover and it
bothered him all year. Incomplete.
Andrew
Andrew Lannen
wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Feb 2000 20:15:05 -0600, Andrew Lannen
><and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> And I firmly believe that with the garbage screens and 4 yard outs
>>that were all King was asked to do, even Walsh could have posted an 82
>>QB rating. The offense still stunk, though. A QB can complete 80% of
>>his passes, but it doesn't count for squat when they average only 3-4
>>yards. It doesn't move the team.
>
>Sure, but King averaged 6, so obviously you're not talking about him.
I'm saying that the passes were mostly 3-4 yards. Occasionally
one 3 yard pass got broken for 68 yards based on the receiver's
incredible (and lucky) individual effort. Twenty three yard passes
and one 68 yard screen equals a 6 yard average. Even so, his average
of 5.98 yards ranks him below nearly *every* starter last year. I am
not impressed. We could have taken Shula out of the booth and put him
in the game and come up with the same results.
Andrew
Andrew Lannen
<koho...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Yatil Green and Reidel Anthony went to Miami and Florida respectively. They had
>nothing to do with FSU.
>
>Dunn was a "superior" talent in college football, but he wouldn't be considered
>"superior" in the pros -- he's very good, but he's not Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin
>James, Fred Taylor, etc...
Or even Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, Rickey Watters, Corey Dillon,
Eddie George, James Stewart, Stephen Davis, Emmitt Smith, Chris
Warren, Duce Staley, Dorsey Levens, Robert Smith, Jamal Anderson, Tim
Biakabatuka, Charlie Garner, or Ricky Williams. All of whom are
better than Dunn. That's 19 off the top of my head in 5 minutes. I'm
sure I could come up with more given another hour or so.
>The point I was making is that FSU has the best talent in college football
>every year. The fact that they score points is more a tribute to the talent.
>The best I can say about Richt is that he didn't screw it up.
Absolutely. Every year they have a recruiting class ranked in
the top 5 in the nation. This year they were #2, IIRC.
Andrew
Art
<and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> I disagree. I think we need someone with extensive professional
>experience. When we got Kiffin, he had 13 years of pro defensive
>coaching experience, including two seasons as an NFL defensive
>coordinator.
There are several college coaches who've made the jump NFL and been
extremely successful and vice versa.
I've seen many a professional get hired because of their experience,
only to find out they are available for the job only because they
never learned from it. Give me experience some of the time, but to
think it's all there is would be incredibly shortsighted, but then
again, since you think an 82.4 QB rating is mediocre (when, if it were
lifetime, it would rate him about 13th best in football history), we
have extraordinarly different standards.
ART
Art
<don'tcareto...@thistime.com> wrote:
>I am going to keep saying this name until the new OC is decided -
>
>Ray Sherman
Time to stop.... GB gobbled him up already.
ART
Art
<koho...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Mark Richt is a horrible idea... has he ever coached at the pro level?...
Does it matter? Had JJ ever coached at the pro level before going to
Dallas? Every coach has to start somewhere, and running the best
offense in all of college for the last several years is a pretty good
credential. And my God, we're not asking the guy to be head coach.
>does he know how to coordinate a running game?
Absolutely.
> I don't think he's so great
>-- with FSU's talent, they ought to be scoring the way they do --
Even though that "talent" never seems to be able to do much in the NFL
(read: Yatil Green, Reidel Anthony et. al). Seems to me the guy's got
the ability to get the best out of his players.
>and why is
>it that every time I watch FSU play it seems like their offense is
>disjointed?... They never sustain drives, they pretty much live by the big
>play...
"Never" and "pretty much" are drastically different words. Ya know, I
really felt for poor St.Louis this year when they played the Vikes in
the playoffs this year. I mean, that first play of the game going for
the TD and all... what a horrible thing the big play is...
>they do not win because of great coaching or scheming -- they
>score/win because of superior talent and speed.
That's nonsense. Their "superior talent" goes noplace after they
leave FSU. Dunn has been fairly successful, but not nearly what he
did with the Seminoles (and believe me, I hate FSU with a passion, so
it's not homerism). Someone is making the offense work well enough to
out offense all the rest of college football, and unfortunately it's
not the Gators.
It's the person getting the effort out of the offense that's doing the
job... and that's the coaches.
ART
Art
<and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:27:28 GMT, oh5...@hotmail.nospam.com (Art)
>wrote:
>
>>Even though that "talent" never seems to be able to do much in the NFL
>>(read: Yatil Green, Reidel Anthony et. al). Seems to me the guy's got
>>the ability to get the best out of his players.
>
> Yatil Green = University of Miami
> Reidel Anthony = University of Florida
heh... maybe I'm stuck on Florida... :)
My fault...
ART
Art
<and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:20:11 GMT, oh5...@hotmail.nospam.com (Art)
>wrote:
>
>>think it's all there is would be incredibly shortsighted, but then
>>again, since you think an 82.4 QB rating is mediocre (when, if it were
>>lifetime, it would rate him about 13th best in football history), we
>>have extraordinarly different standards.
>
> And I firmly believe that with the garbage screens and 4 yard outs
>that were all King was asked to do, even Walsh could have posted an 82
>QB rating. The offense still stunk, though. A QB can complete 80% of
>his passes, but it doesn't count for squat when they average only 3-4
>yards. It doesn't move the team.
Sure, but King averaged 6, so obviously you're not talking about him.
ART
Art
<and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:27:28 GMT, oh5...@hotmail.nospam.com (Art)
>wrote:
>
>>Even though that "talent" never seems to be able to do much in the NFL
>>(read: Yatil Green, Reidel Anthony et. al). Seems to me the guy's got
>>the ability to get the best out of his players.
>
> Yatil Green = University of Miami
> Reidel Anthony = University of Florida
Again my fault....
Still, let's consider
Zack Crockett
Danny Kanell
Warrick Dunn
Casey Weldon
Andre Cooper
Lawrence Dawsey
EG Green
Tamarick Vanover
Ya know, other than Dunn, I don't see any great success stories out of
the skill positions on offense (at least as an offensive player...
there's no argument Vanover's one of the best return men in the game).
ART
W A Collier
and...@ix.netcom.com says...
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2000 17:57:23 GMT, oh5...@hotmail.nospam.com (Art)
> wrote:
>
> >Actually, my favorite for the position might not be too difficult to
> >get...
> >
> >I would love to see us get Mark Richt. The guy has run one of the
> >most powerful college offenses for the last several years--the FSU
> >offense. I mean, afterall, we have Monte who spent years at the
> >college level as a D coordinator and noone in their right mind could
> >question HIS success.
>
> experience. When we got Kiffin, he had 13 years of pro defensive
> coaching experience, including two seasons as an NFL defensive
> coordinator.
>
Thats why I say we need to go after Gibbs from the Broncos. He built and
ran the best offensive line in football 3 years running. He's learned
the offensive schemes from Walsh and playcalling/offense from Shanahan.
Deep experience, well regarded every where he goes, and successful at
developing talent - and adapting to what talent he has. And he like to
run the ball *effectively* - look what he has done for Olandis Gary and
Terrrel Davis with his run-blocking schemes.
This is the guy we should be trying our hardest to get as an OC.
CCF
> I'm saying that the passes were mostly 3-4 yards. Occasionally
> one 3 yard pass got broken for 68 yards based on the receiver's
> incredible (and lucky) individual effort. Twenty three yard passes
> and one 68 yard screen equals a 6 yard average. Even so, his average
> of 5.98 yards ranks him below nearly *every* starter last year. I am
> not impressed. We could have taken Shula out of the booth and put him
> in the game and come up with the same results.
>
> Andrew
What you forget, and I used ypc not ypa so guys with crummy completion %'s
don't get hurt, King was just above McNabb, at the same level as Smith and
McNown and just a bit below Couch. In rookie terms, he is right about where
the rest of these kids are. That is why you look at guys as rookies.
CCF
GB's loss. He got fired from Pitt and Minn smelled something bad on him
too. Hell you think Mark Richt gets lucky coaching the talent he has,
well Ray Sherman got to coach great WR's, a suprisingly good QB, a
superiior OL and a very good RB. Sure that offense looked good.
CCF
> That's nonsense. Their "superior talent" goes noplace after they
> leave FSU. Dunn has been fairly successful, but not nearly what he
> did with the Seminoles (and believe me, I hate FSU with a passion, so
> it's not homerism). Someone is making the offense work well enough to
> out offense all the rest of college football, and unfortunately it's
> not the Gators.
>
Yeah but the superior talent of UNebraska goes no where either. College ball is
about better atheletes, that goes away when you get to the NFL. FSU has better
athletes, they are bigger, faster and stronger than most folks. Plus, they run
a goof ball offense that is much harder for college teams to defense (few
college teams go 4 CB's deep, a lot don't go 3) than the pros.
> It's the person getting the effort out of the offense that's doing the
> job... and that's the coaches.
>
The fact that these guys don't go anwhere depsite their great physical skills
should tell you all you need to know. FSU wins by using guys blazing speed, not
great route running. It is the better athelete and not better football player
that makes the FSU offense run. Whatever success he has is distorted by the
quality of athelete he gets. Hell the Rice OC may be a genious but with a bucnh
of slow, small and weak guys we'll never know.
Jay Stark
And they weren't as good as the year before. Moss had a year of
experience and George was a better QB. The O should have been better.
J
Art
>What you forget, and I used ypc not ypa so guys with crummy completion %'s
>don't get hurt, King was just above McNabb, at the same level as Smith and
>McNown and just a bit below Couch. In rookie terms, he is right about where
>the rest of these kids are. That is why you look at guys as rookies.
Well, first of all CCF, you know my opinion of QB rating, so we'll let
that lie for now. Unfortunately, it's the only thing people
understand, so I'm forced to use it. And I think QBs SHOULD be
penalized for crummy completion %'s. Hey, a guy with a 50%
completion rate and a guy with a 60% completion rate are worlds apart
in talent.
ART
Art
<and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 02:49:23 GMT, oh5...@hotmail.nospam.com (Art)
>wrote:
>>Sure, but King averaged 6, so obviously you're not talking about him.
>
> I'm saying that the passes were mostly 3-4 yards. Occasionally
>one 3 yard pass got broken for 68 yards based on the receiver's
>incredible (and lucky) individual effort.
So it's lucky when a Buc does it and skill when a Viking or Ram does
it? Do you realize far more than half of Warner's yards came on YACs?
> Twenty three yard passes
>and one 68 yard screen equals a 6 yard average. Even so, his average
>of 5.98 yards ranks him below nearly *every* starter last year.
Sure, but his 60% completion rate doesn't. Nor does his TD% or his
INT%. You have to take the whole picture into account. Focusing on
one stat does nothing.
> I am not impressed.
Then I thank god you're not the coach.
Let me know whose rookie performance you liked better.
ART
CCF
QBR has flaws but year in and year out it does show the best vs the worst QB's-
I mean you never see something really anomolous with it. It sucks trying to
compare between eras and that might be the biggest flaw.
As far as what I posted- percentage should affect the QBR, as it does.
What I responding to was the contention that King just dinked the ball around
all the time and that is why he had the good numbers. I was comparing the yards
per completion for King vs the other rookies: McNown, Couch, King and
Smith.rather than ypa since ypa IS affected by completion %. For example: Akili
Smith hits passes of 10, 10, 15, 15, 20 yards but misses on 10 other throws. So
he gets 14.0 ypc but only 4.6 ypa whereas King could throw 5,5,5,5,5 and never
miss and get a 5.0 ypc and 5.0 ypa. King's ypc numbers are right in line with
the other rookies (he's middle of the pack) What I was trying to show was that
King's numbers were not a product of merely dumping the ball off but are typical
of the way rookies complete passes- mostly short.
Andrew Lannen
wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Feb 2000 22:27:10 -0600, Andrew Lannen
><and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 02:49:23 GMT, oh5...@hotmail.nospam.com (Art)
>>wrote:
>
>>>Sure, but King averaged 6, so obviously you're not talking about him.
>>
>> I'm saying that the passes were mostly 3-4 yards. Occasionally
>>one 3 yard pass got broken for 68 yards based on the receiver's
>>incredible (and lucky) individual effort.
>
>So it's lucky when a Buc does it and skill when a Viking or Ram does
>it? Do you realize far more than half of Warner's yards came on YACs?
I'm saying it's lucky for King. It is not due to *King's* skill as
a passer.
>> Twenty three yard passes
>>and one 68 yard screen equals a 6 yard average. Even so, his average
>>of 5.98 yards ranks him below nearly *every* starter last year.
>
>Sure, but his 60% completion rate doesn't. Nor does his TD% or his
>INT%. You have to take the whole picture into account. Focusing on
>one stat does nothing.
You mean like you are doing? All of his stats apart from
completion percentage are either mediocre or total shit. YPA, TD-INT
ratio, yards per game, etc. Crapola. And this against some of the
*worst* defenses in the NFL. The only two good defenses he ran up
against took him to the cleaners -- St. Louis and Oakland.
Low ypa=higher completion percentage. It's damn easy to get a
high completion percentage when you *never* throw the ball more than
10 yards down the field. Dilfer's completion percentage was 59.8 this
year -- and he even went downfield more than once every three games.
I think the QB rating in general is total garbage because it
weights certain stats too highly. A QB who completes 35 of 40 passes
but only gets 80 yards has a decent rating. But such a performance
would be pretty lame in real life.
>Let me know whose rookie performance you liked better.
Couch's. He had less surrounding talent to work with and played
against some much tougher defenses. Plus, he has more raw talent in
his little pinky than King does in his entire body.
Andrew
Andrew Lannen
>What I responding to was the contention that King just dinked the ball around
>all the time and that is why he had the good numbers. I was comparing the yards
>per completion for King vs the other rookies: McNown, Couch, King and
>Smith.rather than ypa since ypa IS affected by completion %. For example: Akili
>Smith hits passes of 10, 10, 15, 15, 20 yards but misses on 10 other throws. So
>he gets 14.0 ypc but only 4.6 ypa whereas King could throw 5,5,5,5,5 and never
>miss and get a 5.0 ypc and 5.0 ypa. King's ypc numbers are right in line with
>the other rookies (he's middle of the pack) What I was trying to show was that
>King's numbers were not a product of merely dumping the ball off but are typical
>of the way rookies complete passes- mostly short.
But at least those other rookies showed the *potential* to go
downfield by successfully completing one or two per game. King can't
even do that. He doesn't even come close on his downfield attempts --
and I frankly think that with his limited height and arm he probably
won't improve that area much. A QB who can *only* throw the ball
less than 10 yards and *never* over that will get eaten alive. DBs
will smother them in that 10 yard zone and be willing to let them go
deep since King wouldn't be able to hit them to save his life.
Andrew
Art
<and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 20:48:55 GMT, oh5...@hotmail.nospam.com (Art)
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 04 Feb 2000 22:27:10 -0600, Andrew Lannen
>><and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Feb 2000 02:49:23 GMT, oh5...@hotmail.nospam.com (Art)
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>Sure, but King averaged 6, so obviously you're not talking about him.
>>>
>>> I'm saying that the passes were mostly 3-4 yards. Occasionally
>>>one 3 yard pass got broken for 68 yards based on the receiver's
>>>incredible (and lucky) individual effort.
>>
>>So it's lucky when a Buc does it and skill when a Viking or Ram does
>>it? Do you realize far more than half of Warner's yards came on YACs?
>
> I'm saying it's lucky for King. It is not due to *King's* skill as
>a passer.
Nor then is Warner or George much of a QB I guess... or Manning.
All of them were great beneficiaries of many YACs. Speaking of which,
King's YACs were amongst the lowest in the league thanks in part to an
offensive scheme which doesn't stress YACs.
>>> Twenty three yard passes
>>>and one 68 yard screen equals a 6 yard average. Even so, his average
>>>of 5.98 yards ranks him below nearly *every* starter last year.
>>
>>Sure, but his 60% completion rate doesn't. Nor does his TD% or his
>>INT%. You have to take the whole picture into account. Focusing on
>>one stat does nothing.
>
> You mean like you are doing? All of his stats apart from
>completion percentage are either mediocre or total shit. YPA,
YPA TD% Int% Comp% QBR
McNown 6.2 3.4% 4.3 54.0% 66.7
McNabb 4.4 3.7% 3.2% 49.1% 60.1
Couch 6.1 3.8% 3.3 55.9% 73.2
Smith 5.3 1.3% 3.9% 52.3% 55.6
King 6.0 4.8% 2.7% 61.0% 82.4
>TD-INT ratio
Which he is the best amongst all the rookies (1.75), and even better
than Peyton Manning (1.73) , Chris Chandler, Rich Gannon, Drew
Bledsoe, Gus Frerotte, Tolliver, Collins, Brunell, Favre, and 17 other
regulars.... how does that suck?
>, yards per game,
This is a counting stat. Counters are only useful in judging how MUCH
one passed, not how well. Use YPA or YPC. (YPA is shown up above, and
King is dead center).
> etc. Crapola.
Wow.... then there must be only 4 or 5 QBs you'd accept in the entire
NFL. Again, your standards and mine are FAR apart.
> And this against some of the
>*worst* defenses in the NFL. The only two good defenses he ran up
>against took him to the cleaners -- St. Louis and Oakland.
Actually, our normalized numbers don't show us coming up that badly.
> Low ypa=higher completion percentage. It's damn easy to get a
>high completion percentage when you *never* throw the ball more than
>10 yards down the field. Dilfer's completion percentage was 59.8 this
>year -- and he even went downfield more than once every three games.
Than why were his YPA in the same ball park as all of the other
rookies? Besides which, you can't possibly blame the offensive scheme
and playcalling on King.
> I think the QB rating in general is total garbage because it
>weights certain stats too highly. A QB who completes 35 of 40 passes
>but only gets 80 yards has a decent rating. But such a performance
>would be pretty lame in real life.
You don't have to preach to me about QBR. I've always hated the
thing. I'd rather use his accuracy rating which I wont' have until
April.
I'd also like to see how many Y@C he has as compared to other QBs. We
dont' have these numbers available yet.
>>Let me know whose rookie performance you liked better.
>
> Couch's. He had less surrounding talent to work with and played
>against some much tougher defenses.
Prove it! Couch had a worse TD%, worse INT%, worse Comp%, equal YPA
(more or less--6.1 for Couch, 6.0 for King) worse TD-INT ratio. My
GAWD man you're making this stuff up.
> Plus, he has more raw talent in
>his little pinky than King does in his entire body.
Dilfer has more raw talent than either of these guys, but it takes
more than raw talent to get things done. Hell, a lot of QBs had more
raw talent than Montana, but Montana is still ONE of the greatest
(sorry CCF :), Marino's still better). Physical talent doesnt' take
you very far in the NFL.
ART
CCF
Deep passing is more about timing than anything else. Our Wr's are terrible escaping
the line and get knocked off routes when they do get deep. Hiting them deep isn't
easy- hence the near cosmic joy when Dilfer hit 3 deep passes this year- and King
wasn't great at it but frankly, and this was true with Diler for many a game, when
you don't really get shots deep all that often you aren't gonna hit them. Plus, the
deep ball, more than any other pass, seems to bestreaky. Recall how great Jeff Blake
was for one year, or Mark Rypien?
Throw in that arm strength and height don't mean much throwing deep- height is a non
issue since you are throwing it at such an arc that no lineman will bat it down and
that you are lofting it and not throwing a rope so huge arm strength isn't a major
issue. It does mean that King will need to hit the deep guy 30 yards downdfeidl
rather than 40. You want to see poor arm sntregh and it's effect on the deep ball
come to Dallas and watch Aikman throw a deep ball vs Jasson Garret. Aikman has a
cannon and Garret has an arm less powerful than King's. Aikmna is awful on deep stuff
(like Diler he has no arc on the deep pass) and Garrett is great on the deep ball.
Tammy
>Les Steckle, OC (if he wants to try to get there from our side of the league)
Just the name Les Steckel makes me go into convulsions (see 1983 3-13 Vikings).
However, he does seem to have what it takes to be an assistant. I don't know
if he's softened since his stint as head coach with the Vikings. He's an
ex-Marine and his workouts were so bad that the team was relieved when Sunday
came around because the games were easier than the workouts.
I just could believe the words Les Steckel and Super Bowl were in the same
sentence. ;-)
Obviously, though, he's doing something right in TN.
Tammy
"The good Lord has more to do than worry about the outcome of a football game."
Duffy Daugherty on religion and football.
To reply via E-mail, remove spamaway
CCF
> Couch's. He had less surrounding talent to work with and played
> against some much tougher defenses. Plus, he has more raw talent in
> his little pinky than King does in his entire body.
>
> Andrew
His OL isn't much worse, this WR's are better- you'd NOT trade Kevin Johnson
for any of our WRs?, and his offensive scheme is better- Chris Palmer for
Mike Shula?
McNabb is the only guy with a worse OL and WR's than King among the rookie
and he still has a better scheme to work in.
MentalTossFlycoon
perspective, Ron Ehrhardt would be as "good" as Steckel.
Tammy <vikef...@aol.comspamaway> wrote in message
news:20000206092225...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
Andrew Lannen
>Andrew Lannen wrote:
>
>> Couch's. He had less surrounding talent to work with and played
>> against some much tougher defenses. Plus, he has more raw talent in
>> his little pinky than King does in his entire body.
>>
>> Andrew
>
>His OL isn't much worse, this WR's are better- you'd NOT trade Kevin Johnson
>for any of our WRs?, and his offensive scheme is better- Chris Palmer for
>Mike Shula?
Since his OL is mainly rejects from other clubs, I'd say they are
worse. Apart from Kevin Johnson they have . . . Darren Chavarieni?
They'd be ecstatic to have Emanuel, Green, or even Karl Williams on
that club. They'd all be a step up from the #2-5 WRs. And he had
the absolute worst RB corps in the entire NFL. Terry Kirby as the
starter? Ugh. Talk about cluing people in that you are going to pass
. . .
Andrew
Steve M
Andrew Lannen <and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8tup9s0p7kdc8t5mc...@4ax.com...
I think that D scheme has worked against us all year and that is why nobody
could get open on short routes. The DB's would hover just behind routes and
shut them down. If you can't throw that post or go route that the Rams throw
a few times a game you can't keep and D honest and they just keep creeping
up until they also shut down the run too.
Regards, Steve M
Ron Gibson
Ron Gibson
Art
<and...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:20:54 GMT, CCF <c...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Andrew Lannen wrote:
>>
>>> Couch's. He had less surrounding talent to work with and played
>>> against some much tougher defenses. Plus, he has more raw talent in
>>> his little pinky than King does in his entire body.
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>
>>His OL isn't much worse, this WR's are better- you'd NOT trade Kevin Johnson
>>for any of our WRs?, and his offensive scheme is better- Chris Palmer for
>>Mike Shula?
>
> Since his OL is mainly rejects from other clubs, I'd say they are
>worse. Apart from Kevin Johnson they have . . . Darren Chavarieni?
He's not a reject, he was a rookie, as was Zola Davis (an excellent
speedster out of USC). Chaverieni caught more passes than Emanuel or
Williams. I'd doubt they're looking to dump him. The Bucs, despite
having close to the fewest passes thrown, again led the league in
drops.
>They'd be ecstatic to have Emanuel, Green, or even Karl Williams on
>that club.
Why? Are they looking for people who can drop passes? Chaverieni
caught more passes than Emanuel and Williams put together, as many as
Anthony, Hape, and McDonald put together.
> They'd all be a step up from the #2-5 WRs.
I doubt it. The Bucs receiving corps is one of the worst in the NFL.
> And he had
>the absolute worst RB corps in the entire NFL. Terry Kirby as the
>starter? Ugh. Talk about cluing people in that you are going to pass
They were a passing team from the get go. Still, they ran the ball
about 350 times while passing 500. Not that far off for a team which
played from behind the bulk of the season.
ART