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SDUT (Acee): Norv? A.J.? Philip? O-line deserves plenty of blame
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Robin Miller
Nov 14, 2012, 11:15:08 PM11/14/12
to
Acee: Norv? A.J.? Philip? O-line deserves plenty of blame
By Kevin Acee
Wednesday, November 14, 2012
You can say you miss Marty Schottenheimer and want Jon Gruden.
Maybe you should miss Kris Dielman and want wholesale changes on the
offensive line even more.
Let’s take a few minutes off from the Norval bashing and look deeper at
the reasons for the Chargers’ failure.
That’s what the team’s brass is doing, because unlike much of the rest
of the American football speaking world, the guy who owns the Chargers
has not made up his mind how much of the blame falls on Norv Turner and
how much falls on A.J. Smith and who is getting canned.
It’s safe to say Dean Spanos, whose opinion is the only one that
matters, still feels much as he did after last season — that it’s part
personnel (meaning Smith, the general manager) and part coaching.
I don’t expect a decision soon on how much of either is responsible or
what to do about it.
That last sentence caused a good number of people — those interested
only in Turner and/or Smith being terminated forthwith — to stop
reading. But there has to be more to this problem and its solution.
In no way are the six guys who have played the snaps on the offensive
line the Chargers’ only problem, but they’re near the top of the list.
You’ve likely made up your mind about Turner and what an awful coach he
is, deciding the only thing he could motivate another human to do is
fall asleep. So this isn’t an attempt to deflect blame.
And, hey, Philip Rivers is the one who got spooked by the Buccaneers
showing a blitz that never came, and it was he who after rolling right
while running away from that phantom rush threw the ball directly to
Bucs’ cornerback Leonard Johnson.
Rivers has to stop being so error prone.
But the man has needed way too much bleach to clean the grass stains off
his uniform this season.
This offensive line might not be made of paper, but it is no better than
cellophane. That is entirely unacceptable considering the investment it
is protecting — a QB pulling down an average of $15.3 million who
everyone in the league knows is the vane by which the Chargers’ fortune
blows.
The Chargers are one of just four teams to rank in the top 10 in both
sacks and quarterback hurries allowed. The other three teams who are
allowing their QB to be pulverized have sub-.500 records too.
Among tackles on either side who have played at least 25 percent of
their team’s snaps, Pro Football Focus ranks the Chargers’ two left
tackles among the league’s 11 worst this season in pass blocking efficiency.
Mike Harris, in fact, is ranked last among the 69 tackles PFF grades.
Gaither ranks 59th. Right tackle Jeromey Clary is the star of the group,
at 47th.
Guards don’t deal with as much space or speed as tackles, but the
Chargers’ two inside guys are stellar when put up against their tackle
teammates. Right guard Louis Vasquez ranks 22nd among all guards who
have played at least 50 percent of their team’s snaps. Left guard
Tyronne Green ranks 33rd.
Green has allowed 14 quarterback pressures in 327 snaps. Dielman played
238 snaps before his season (and career) was ended in 2011. He allowed
five pressures.
Nick Hardwick — for so long the man, the captain — ranks as the NFL’s
26th-best center.
The left side of the line retiring suddenly is no one’s fault. Dielman
and Marcus McNeill had been to six Pro Bowls between them and would be
still playing if not for wise choices to preserve their brain and neck,
respectively.
Defending the signing of left tackle Jared Gaither is easily done.
Gaither played superbly, even perfectly, if there could be such a thing
in football, for the five games he was a Charger in ’11. He was by far
the top free agent at the position. He had to be signed.
But the results of the line as a whole can’t be argued.
As far as coaching, neither Turner nor offensive line guru Hal Hunter
and his assistant Mike Sullivan forgot how to teach pass blocking.
I doubt Turner is here in 2013. If Spanos decides the offensive line
(not to mention Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal) are unforgivable gaffes,
Smith will be gone, too.
But whoever is running things better figure out what to do with at least
three of the spots on the line, or they won’t be here long either.
dave
Nov 16, 2012, 4:26:00 PM11/16/12
to
On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:15:09 PM UTC-6, Robin Miller wrote:
> Acee: Norv? A.J.? Philip? O-line deserves plenty of blame
>
>
>
> By Kevin Acee
>
>
>
> Wednesday, November 14, 2012
>
>
>
> You can say you miss Marty Schottenheimer and want Jon Gruden.
>
>
>
> Maybe you should miss Kris Dielman and want wholesale changes on the
>
> offensive line even more.
>
>
>
> Let�s take a few minutes off from the Norval bashing and look deeper at
> Acee: Norv? A.J.? Philip? O-line deserves plenty of blame
>
>
>
> By Kevin Acee
>
>
>
> Wednesday, November 14, 2012
>
>
>
> You can say you miss Marty Schottenheimer and want Jon Gruden.
>
>
>
> Maybe you should miss Kris Dielman and want wholesale changes on the
>
> offensive line even more.
>
>
>
>
> the reasons for the Chargers� failure.
>
>
>
> That�s what the team�s brass is doing, because unlike much of the rest
>
> of the American football speaking world, the guy who owns the Chargers
>
> has not made up his mind how much of the blame falls on Norv Turner and
>
> how much falls on A.J. Smith and who is getting canned.
>
>
>
> It�s safe to say Dean Spanos, whose opinion is the only one that
> of the American football speaking world, the guy who owns the Chargers
>
> has not made up his mind how much of the blame falls on Norv Turner and
>
> how much falls on A.J. Smith and who is getting canned.
>
>
>
>
> matters, still feels much as he did after last season � that it�s part
>
> personnel (meaning Smith, the general manager) and part coaching.
>
>
>
> I don�t expect a decision soon on how much of either is responsible or
> personnel (meaning Smith, the general manager) and part coaching.
>
>
>
>
> what to do about it.
>
>
>
> That last sentence caused a good number of people � those interested
> what to do about it.
>
>
>
>
> only in Turner and/or Smith being terminated forthwith � to stop
>
> reading. But there has to be more to this problem and its solution.
>
>
>
> In no way are the six guys who have played the snaps on the offensive
>
> line the Chargers� only problem, but they�re near the top of the list.
> reading. But there has to be more to this problem and its solution.
>
>
>
> In no way are the six guys who have played the snaps on the offensive
>
>
>
>
> You�ve likely made up your mind about Turner and what an awful coach he
>
> is, deciding the only thing he could motivate another human to do is
>
> fall asleep. So this isn�t an attempt to deflect blame.
> is, deciding the only thing he could motivate another human to do is
>
>
>
>
> And, hey, Philip Rivers is the one who got spooked by the Buccaneers
>
> showing a blitz that never came, and it was he who after rolling right
>
> while running away from that phantom rush threw the ball directly to
>
> Bucs� cornerback Leonard Johnson.
>
>
> And, hey, Philip Rivers is the one who got spooked by the Buccaneers
>
> showing a blitz that never came, and it was he who after rolling right
>
> while running away from that phantom rush threw the ball directly to
>
>
>
>
> Rivers has to stop being so error prone.
>
>
>
> But the man has needed way too much bleach to clean the grass stains off
>
> his uniform this season.
>
>
>
> This offensive line might not be made of paper, but it is no better than
>
> cellophane. That is entirely unacceptable considering the investment it
>
> is protecting � a QB pulling down an average of $15.3 million who
>
>
> Rivers has to stop being so error prone.
>
>
>
> But the man has needed way too much bleach to clean the grass stains off
>
> his uniform this season.
>
>
>
> This offensive line might not be made of paper, but it is no better than
>
> cellophane. That is entirely unacceptable considering the investment it
>
>
> everyone in the league knows is the vane by which the Chargers� fortune
>
> blows.
>
>
>
> The Chargers are one of just four teams to rank in the top 10 in both
>
> sacks and quarterback hurries allowed. The other three teams who are
>
> allowing their QB to be pulverized have sub-.500 records too.
>
>
>
> Among tackles on either side who have played at least 25 percent of
>
> their team�s snaps, Pro Football Focus ranks the Chargers� two left
> blows.
>
>
>
> The Chargers are one of just four teams to rank in the top 10 in both
>
> sacks and quarterback hurries allowed. The other three teams who are
>
> allowing their QB to be pulverized have sub-.500 records too.
>
>
>
> Among tackles on either side who have played at least 25 percent of
>
>
> tackles among the league�s 11 worst this season in pass blocking efficiency.
>
>
>
> Mike Harris, in fact, is ranked last among the 69 tackles PFF grades.
>
> Gaither ranks 59th. Right tackle Jeromey Clary is the star of the group,
>
> at 47th.
>
>
>
> Guards don�t deal with as much space or speed as tackles, but the
>
>
> Mike Harris, in fact, is ranked last among the 69 tackles PFF grades.
>
> Gaither ranks 59th. Right tackle Jeromey Clary is the star of the group,
>
> at 47th.
>
>
>
>
> Chargers� two inside guys are stellar when put up against their tackle
>
> teammates. Right guard Louis Vasquez ranks 22nd among all guards who
>
> have played at least 50 percent of their team�s snaps. Left guard
> teammates. Right guard Louis Vasquez ranks 22nd among all guards who
>
>
> Tyronne Green ranks 33rd.
>
>
>
> Green has allowed 14 quarterback pressures in 327 snaps. Dielman played
>
> 238 snaps before his season (and career) was ended in 2011. He allowed
>
> five pressures.
>
>
>
> Nick Hardwick � for so long the man, the captain � ranks as the NFL�s
> Tyronne Green ranks 33rd.
>
>
>
> Green has allowed 14 quarterback pressures in 327 snaps. Dielman played
>
> 238 snaps before his season (and career) was ended in 2011. He allowed
>
> five pressures.
>
>
>
>
> 26th-best center.
>
>
>
> The left side of the line retiring suddenly is no one�s fault. Dielman
>
> and Marcus McNeill had been to six Pro Bowls between them and would be
>
> still playing if not for wise choices to preserve their brain and neck,
>
> respectively.
>
>
>
> Defending the signing of left tackle Jared Gaither is easily done.
>
> Gaither played superbly, even perfectly, if there could be such a thing
>
> in football, for the five games he was a Charger in �11. He was by far
> and Marcus McNeill had been to six Pro Bowls between them and would be
>
> still playing if not for wise choices to preserve their brain and neck,
>
> respectively.
>
>
>
> Defending the signing of left tackle Jared Gaither is easily done.
>
> Gaither played superbly, even perfectly, if there could be such a thing
>
>
> the top free agent at the position. He had to be signed.
>
>
>
> But the results of the line as a whole can�t be argued.
> the top free agent at the position. He had to be signed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As far as coaching, neither Turner nor offensive line guru Hal Hunter
>
> and his assistant Mike Sullivan forgot how to teach pass blocking.
>
>
>
> I doubt Turner is here in 2013. If Spanos decides the offensive line
>
> (not to mention Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal) are unforgivable gaffes,
>
> Smith will be gone, too.
>
>
>
> But whoever is running things better figure out what to do with at least
>
> three of the spots on the line, or they won�t be here long either.
>
>
> As far as coaching, neither Turner nor offensive line guru Hal Hunter
>
> and his assistant Mike Sullivan forgot how to teach pass blocking.
>
>
>
> I doubt Turner is here in 2013. If Spanos decides the offensive line
>
> (not to mention Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal) are unforgivable gaffes,
>
> Smith will be gone, too.
>
>
>
> But whoever is running things better figure out what to do with at least
>
Thats part of what I have been saying. I get Norv has to go. He has not kept the team playing at a high level. I still believe the #1 problem with this team is AJ. The talent on this team has been bled dry over the last few years. He doesn't understand football if he thinks you can plug any warm body into the Oline and make it work. This line is horrible. The D doesn't need a complicated blitz to put massive pressure just bring a guy or 2.
I don't blame AJ for signing Gaither. What about drafting some OL? When you lose guys you have to have quality to step in behind them. When you lose your LT and cut down day arrives and there are LT's out there and you decide you're going with an undrafted rook as your primary guy, thats unforgivable. And the stats tell the story the reason he was undrafted cause he is the worst O lineman in the league.
ScottW
Nov 16, 2012, 8:06:42 PM11/16/12
to
On Nov 16, 1:26 pm, dave <dave...@texxa.net> wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:15:09 PM UTC-6, Robin Miller wrote:
> > Acee: Norv? A.J.? Philip? O-line deserves plenty of blame
>
> > By Kevin Acee
>
> > Wednesday, November 14, 2012
>
> > You can say you miss Marty Schottenheimer and want Jon Gruden.
>
> > Maybe you should miss Kris Dielman and want wholesale changes on the
>
> > offensive line even more.
>
> > Let s take a few minutes off from the Norval bashing and look deeper at
> On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:15:09 PM UTC-6, Robin Miller wrote:
> > Acee: Norv? A.J.? Philip? O-line deserves plenty of blame
>
> > By Kevin Acee
>
> > Wednesday, November 14, 2012
>
> > You can say you miss Marty Schottenheimer and want Jon Gruden.
>
> > Maybe you should miss Kris Dielman and want wholesale changes on the
>
> > offensive line even more.
>
>
> > the reasons for the Chargers failure.
>
> > That s what the team s brass is doing, because unlike much of the rest
> > the reasons for the Chargers failure.
>
>
> > of the American football speaking world, the guy who owns the Chargers
>
> > has not made up his mind how much of the blame falls on Norv Turner and
>
> > how much falls on A.J. Smith and who is getting canned.
>
> > It s safe to say Dean Spanos, whose opinion is the only one that
> > of the American football speaking world, the guy who owns the Chargers
>
> > has not made up his mind how much of the blame falls on Norv Turner and
>
> > how much falls on A.J. Smith and who is getting canned.
>
>
> > matters, still feels much as he did after last season that it s part
>
> > personnel (meaning Smith, the general manager) and part coaching.
>
> > I don t expect a decision soon on how much of either is responsible or
> > personnel (meaning Smith, the general manager) and part coaching.
>
>
> > what to do about it.
>
> > That last sentence caused a good number of people those interested
> > what to do about it.
>
>
> > only in Turner and/or Smith being terminated forthwith to stop
>
> > reading. But there has to be more to this problem and its solution.
>
> > In no way are the six guys who have played the snaps on the offensive
>
> > line the Chargers only problem, but they re near the top of the list.
> > reading. But there has to be more to this problem and its solution.
>
> > In no way are the six guys who have played the snaps on the offensive
>
>
> > You ve likely made up your mind about Turner and what an awful coach he
>
> > is, deciding the only thing he could motivate another human to do is
>
> > fall asleep. So this isn t an attempt to deflect blame.
> > is, deciding the only thing he could motivate another human to do is
>
>
> > And, hey, Philip Rivers is the one who got spooked by the Buccaneers
>
> > showing a blitz that never came, and it was he who after rolling right
>
> > while running away from that phantom rush threw the ball directly to
>
> > Bucs cornerback Leonard Johnson.
> > And, hey, Philip Rivers is the one who got spooked by the Buccaneers
>
> > showing a blitz that never came, and it was he who after rolling right
>
> > while running away from that phantom rush threw the ball directly to
>
>
> > Rivers has to stop being so error prone.
>
> > But the man has needed way too much bleach to clean the grass stains off
>
> > his uniform this season.
>
> > This offensive line might not be made of paper, but it is no better than
>
> > cellophane. That is entirely unacceptable considering the investment it
>
> > is protecting a QB pulling down an average of $15.3 million who
> > Rivers has to stop being so error prone.
>
> > But the man has needed way too much bleach to clean the grass stains off
>
> > his uniform this season.
>
> > This offensive line might not be made of paper, but it is no better than
>
> > cellophane. That is entirely unacceptable considering the investment it
>
>
> > everyone in the league knows is the vane by which the Chargers fortune
>
> > blows.
>
> > The Chargers are one of just four teams to rank in the top 10 in both
>
> > sacks and quarterback hurries allowed. The other three teams who are
>
> > allowing their QB to be pulverized have sub-.500 records too.
>
> > Among tackles on either side who have played at least 25 percent of
>
> > their team s snaps, Pro Football Focus ranks the Chargers two left
> > blows.
>
> > The Chargers are one of just four teams to rank in the top 10 in both
>
> > sacks and quarterback hurries allowed. The other three teams who are
>
> > allowing their QB to be pulverized have sub-.500 records too.
>
> > Among tackles on either side who have played at least 25 percent of
>
>
> > tackles among the league s 11 worst this season in pass blocking efficiency.
>
> > Mike Harris, in fact, is ranked last among the 69 tackles PFF grades.
>
> > Gaither ranks 59th. Right tackle Jeromey Clary is the star of the group,
>
> > at 47th.
>
> > Guards don t deal with as much space or speed as tackles, but the
> > Mike Harris, in fact, is ranked last among the 69 tackles PFF grades.
>
> > Gaither ranks 59th. Right tackle Jeromey Clary is the star of the group,
>
> > at 47th.
>
>
> > Chargers two inside guys are stellar when put up against their tackle
>
> > teammates. Right guard Louis Vasquez ranks 22nd among all guards who
>
> > have played at least 50 percent of their team s snaps. Left guard
> > teammates. Right guard Louis Vasquez ranks 22nd among all guards who
>
>
> > Tyronne Green ranks 33rd.
>
> > Green has allowed 14 quarterback pressures in 327 snaps. Dielman played
>
> > 238 snaps before his season (and career) was ended in 2011. He allowed
>
> > five pressures.
>
> > Nick Hardwick for so long the man, the captain ranks as the NFL s
> > Tyronne Green ranks 33rd.
>
> > Green has allowed 14 quarterback pressures in 327 snaps. Dielman played
>
> > 238 snaps before his season (and career) was ended in 2011. He allowed
>
> > five pressures.
>
>
> > 26th-best center.
>
> > The left side of the line retiring suddenly is no one s fault. Dielman
>
> > and Marcus McNeill had been to six Pro Bowls between them and would be
>
> > still playing if not for wise choices to preserve their brain and neck,
>
> > respectively.
>
> > Defending the signing of left tackle Jared Gaither is easily done.
>
> > Gaither played superbly, even perfectly, if there could be such a thing
>
> > in football, for the five games he was a Charger in 11. He was by far
> > and Marcus McNeill had been to six Pro Bowls between them and would be
>
> > still playing if not for wise choices to preserve their brain and neck,
>
> > respectively.
>
> > Defending the signing of left tackle Jared Gaither is easily done.
>
> > Gaither played superbly, even perfectly, if there could be such a thing
>
>
> > the top free agent at the position. He had to be signed.
>
> > But the results of the line as a whole can t be argued.
> > the top free agent at the position. He had to be signed.
>
>
> > As far as coaching, neither Turner nor offensive line guru Hal Hunter
>
> > and his assistant Mike Sullivan forgot how to teach pass blocking.
>
> > I doubt Turner is here in 2013. If Spanos decides the offensive line
>
> > (not to mention Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal) are unforgivable gaffes,
>
> > Smith will be gone, too.
>
> > But whoever is running things better figure out what to do with at least
>
> > three of the spots on the line, or they won t be here long either.
> > As far as coaching, neither Turner nor offensive line guru Hal Hunter
>
> > and his assistant Mike Sullivan forgot how to teach pass blocking.
>
> > I doubt Turner is here in 2013. If Spanos decides the offensive line
>
> > (not to mention Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal) are unforgivable gaffes,
>
> > Smith will be gone, too.
>
> > But whoever is running things better figure out what to do with at least
>
>
> Thats part of what I have been saying. I get Norv has to go. He has not kept the team playing at a high level. I still believe the #1 problem with this team is AJ. The talent on this team has been bled dry over the last few years. He doesn't understand football if he thinks you can plug any warm body into the Oline and make it work. This line is horrible. The D doesn't need a complicated blitz to put massive pressure just bring a guy or 2.
>
> I don't blame AJ for signing Gaither. What about drafting some OL? When you >lose guys you have to have quality to step in behind them. When you lose your LT >and cut down day arrives and there are LT's out there and you decide you're going >with an undrafted rook as your primary guy, thats unforgivable. And the stats tell >the story the reason he was undrafted cause he is the worst O lineman in the >league.
It's worst than that. Everyone knew McNeil had health
> Thats part of what I have been saying. I get Norv has to go. He has not kept the team playing at a high level. I still believe the #1 problem with this team is AJ. The talent on this team has been bled dry over the last few years. He doesn't understand football if he thinks you can plug any warm body into the Oline and make it work. This line is horrible. The D doesn't need a complicated blitz to put massive pressure just bring a guy or 2.
>
> I don't blame AJ for signing Gaither. What about drafting some OL? When you >lose guys you have to have quality to step in behind them. When you lose your LT >and cut down day arrives and there are LT's out there and you decide you're going >with an undrafted rook as your primary guy, thats unforgivable. And the stats tell >the story the reason he was undrafted cause he is the worst O lineman in the >league.
issues...that's why the Chargers were able to draft him. He held up
longer than most thought he would but when his neck/back failed
him...he was done and in a hurry.
There was no excuse for the Chargers not have groomed a backup. They
had plenty of time and could have brought in a rookie with the
physical ability that needed time to develop and worked him through
the PS etc to be ready to step in.
Instead....the year McNeil goes down we have no one to step in.
Getting Gaither was a stroke of luck yet he's still questionable. So
we go yet another off season and the best AJ can do to acquire a
backup is an undrafted FA rookie? GMAFB.
ScottW
dave
Nov 17, 2012, 10:22:54 AM11/17/12
to
> It's worst than that. Everyone knew McNeil had health
>
> issues...that's why the Chargers were able to draft him. He held up
>
> longer than most thought he would but when his neck/back failed
>
> him...he was done and in a hurry.
>
> There was no excuse for the Chargers not have groomed a backup. They
>
> had plenty of time and could have brought in a rookie with the
>
> physical ability that needed time to develop and worked him through
>
> the PS etc to be ready to step in.
>
> Instead....the year McNeil goes down we have no one to step in.
>
> Getting Gaither was a stroke of luck yet he's still questionable. So
>
> we go yet another off season and the best AJ can do to acquire a
>
> backup is an undrafted FA rookie? GMAFB.
>
>
>
> Scott
The whole LT thing is not my only issue. We had a good LT and he went down so we did our best and found a lucky replacement. My problem is when our new guy went down we didn't replace him at all. Cut down day came and went with a handfull of LT's with some skill and at least game exp. and we didn't even make a move. My main problem is we have been losing talent from an average( at best) group and not replacing them. Just trying to plug warm bodies in hoping for the best.
>
> issues...that's why the Chargers were able to draft him. He held up
>
> longer than most thought he would but when his neck/back failed
>
> him...he was done and in a hurry.
>
> There was no excuse for the Chargers not have groomed a backup. They
>
> had plenty of time and could have brought in a rookie with the
>
> physical ability that needed time to develop and worked him through
>
> the PS etc to be ready to step in.
>
> Instead....the year McNeil goes down we have no one to step in.
>
> Getting Gaither was a stroke of luck yet he's still questionable. So
>
> we go yet another off season and the best AJ can do to acquire a
>
> backup is an undrafted FA rookie? GMAFB.
>
>
>
> Scott
When the Cowgirls were winning all those games we all heard of the BIG THREE Aikman, Irvin, Emitt, but the engine that made that offense click was the O-line. Your "toughness" is built by big nasty fat boys up front who like nothing more than kicking the crap out of you for 60 minutes. At this point we have the worst line in football.
crayfish
Nov 17, 2012, 2:18:22 PM11/17/12
to
In article <12102695-e942-476b...@googlegroups.com>,
dav...@texxa.net says...
Maybe Norv should call up the offensive coordinator of those Cowboy
teams and seek some advice.
dav...@texxa.net says...
teams and seek some advice.
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