Adam Shein and Rich Gannon are killing Rivers right now. Gannon specifically is citing Rivers making awful decisions down the stretch and throwing way too many fourth quarter interceptions. They said that not only can Rivers not be considered a good quarterback he has now become a bad QB. Norv cannot win with Rivers at QB was one statement that nearly had me fall out of my chair.
So what the hell do we do now? Has Rivers become the NFL version of Chuck Knoblauch? For those of you who don't know, Knoblauch was an all-star second baseman for the Twins and Yankees who virtually washed himself out of baseball because he developed a mental block of some kind and couldn't make a throw to first base to save his life. It was so bad that it even spilled over to affect his hitting. His throwing was so bad that in one game while a Yankee his attempted throw to first sailed into the stands and hit the mother of sportscaster Keith Olbermann in the head.
Now NFLRadio is playing Norv's rant from the post-game press conerence over and over. We have become the league's laughingstock and if not for Mark Sanchez an argument could be made that Rivers has become the worst starting QB in the league. Before there was a lot of head scratching amongst front office people throughout the league as Rivers seemed to have the same mechanics as he has had throughout his career. Now, these people are saying his mechanics are so bad that no two of his consecutive throws are thrown with the same motion or footwork. The Monday night Denver game is being specifically cited with his fourth quarter performance being called horrific. League personnel people are saying he has always had a hitch in his throw but in that game he had some throws with two or three hitches in his throws and his footwork is abysmal.
This could not come at a worse time. With the decline of talent at our skill positions on offense we were relying on Rivers to not just compensate for that but to overcome it. Instead, Rivers has become the biggest liability on offense. IMHO, only a return of a strong rushing attack can turn him around. Rivers has always tried too hard to make something happen on every play instead of recognizing when the defense simply has your number, throw the ball away and live to fight on the next play. On that pick six yesterday he looked like a beaten man not just player and his play reflected that.
I see no easy fix here, In fact, it is now so bad that I think he needs to sit, we need to write off our season and hope that he can come back in 2013 abd be the player he used to be. The really sucky part of all of this is the fact that we can no longer assume that the QB position is all set for the next five or so seasons. We are actually going to have to draft or acquire a possible replacement for Rivers in the offseason but a drafted player will take at least a season or two to develop into a starter. Maybe this goes back to the two season he sat behind Brees and his drive to prove himself superior to Brees has consumed him so much that he cannot see the bigger picture.
So fellow Chargers fans my question to you is this, where do we go from here? We do not have another QB on the roster to plug in and give Rivers a break. It is so bad that I am hoping he gets hurt and has to sit so he can clear his head. Unfortunately, given his makeup I fear that an injury may only serve to heighten this overwhelming penchant to force plays and making avoidable errors that are losing us ballgames.
What do you guys think?
-- *************************************************************************** *******************************************************
David F. Mishiwiec Sr.
“I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all.”
> Adam Shein and Rich Gannon are killing Rivers right now. Gannon
> specifically is citing Rivers making awful decisions down the stretch
> and throwing way too many fourth quarter interceptions. They said that
> not only can Rivers not be considered a good quarterback he has now
> become a bad QB. Norv cannot win with Rivers at QB was one statement
> that nearly had me fall out of my chair.
I think it's ironic that Rivers was Norv's biggest booster on the team but may end up being the reason that Norv loses his job.
> So what the hell do we do now? Has Rivers become the NFL version of
> Chuck Knoblauch? For those of you who don't know, Knoblauch was an
> all-star second baseman for the Twins and Yankees who virtually washed
> himself out of baseball because he developed a mental block of some kind
> and couldn't make a throw to first base to save his life. It was so bad
> that it even spilled over to affect his hitting. His throwing was so bad
> that in one game while a Yankee his attempted throw to first sailed into
> the stands and hit the mother of sportscaster Keith Olbermann in the head.
I'm also a Yankees fan, and I remember Knoblauch well. Here's some info:
> Now NFLRadio is playing Norv's rant from the post-game press conerence
> over and over. We have become the league's laughingstock and if not for
> Mark Sanchez an argument could be made that Rivers has become the worst
> starting QB in the league. Before there was a lot of head scratching
> amongst front office people throughout the league as Rivers seemed to
> have the same mechanics as he has had throughout his career. Now, these
> people are saying his mechanics are so bad that no two of his
> consecutive throws are thrown with the same motion or footwork. The
> Monday night Denver game is being specifically cited with his fourth
> quarter performance being called horrific. League personnel people are
> saying he has always had a hitch in his throw but in that game he had
> some throws with two or three hitches in his throws and his footwork is
> abysmal.
But his problem is much more mental than physical. If the problem was his throwing motion, he wouldn't be able to hit 40 out of 46, as he did over a game and a half until the end of Sunday's game.
> So fellow Chargers fans my question to you is this, where do we go from
> here? We do not have another QB on the roster to plug in and give Rivers
> a break. It is so bad that I am hoping he gets hurt and has to sit so he
> can clear his head. Unfortunately, given his makeup I fear that an
> injury may only serve to heighten this overwhelming penchant to force
> plays and making avoidable errors that are losing us ballgames.
I think it's crazy to wish for an injury. And Whitehurst is not a very good quarterback.
The much bigger problem, I think, is the complete lack of talent on offense. I went through the personnel groups in a post on Sunday:
--The wide receivers are way below average. Only Floyd is any good. Alexander has immediately become the best- or second-best wideout on the team, pending Vincent Brown's return.
--Gates is declining at tight end, and the others aren't picking up the slack. He looked very slow on Sunday, which was disappointing since he looked pretty fast earlier in the season.
--Matthews is decent but not a threat for a game-changing play.
--The offensive line has been terrible.
This is not to excuse Rivers. It's to point out the pressure he's playing under all the time to try to will the team to a win. It's compounded by the fact that the team's defense is quite competent but seems incapable of making game-changing plays, so the offense always has to be the unit to win the game.
On Nov 12, 12:19 pm, Robin Miller <complex....@invalid.com> wrote:
> But his problem is much more mental than physical. If the problem was
> his throwing motion, he wouldn't be able to hit 40 out of 46, as he did
> over a game and a half until the end of Sunday's game.
Yet he was throwing to a way below average talent receiving
corp...who would have
thought it possible.
> > So fellow Chargers fans my question to you is this, where do we go from
> > here? We do not have another QB on the roster to plug in and give Rivers
> > a break. It is so bad that I am hoping he gets hurt and has to sit so he
> > can clear his head. Unfortunately, given his makeup I fear that an
> > injury may only serve to heighten this overwhelming penchant to force
> > plays and making avoidable errors that are losing us ballgames.
> I think it's crazy to wish for an injury. And Whitehurst is not a very
> good quarterback.
I've seen a lot of QBs not get it for some time. Whitehurst was not a
very good QB in Seattle....we don't know how much he's learned from
those experiences or how he'd do in Norv's system.
IMO there are thousands of guys who can make the throws required to be
an NFL QB. The rest is all mental quickness.
Rivers has never been a great pure passer....even when he completes 40
of 46 he completes passes that put receivers on the ground that need
to be catches and runs...or throwing short to the open guy behind the
D turning a TD into a just a big play.
> The much bigger problem, I think, is the complete lack of talent on
> offense. I went through the personnel groups in a post on Sunday.
Most pundits said the O-line...even with Harris...played well enough
to beat TB.
Gates looked pretty fast getting behind the defense on that early
throw.
He's a big guy and they usually "look" slow. He's usually faster than
the LBs trying to cover him. After that play TB doubled him most of
the remainder of the game.
I think your assessment is simply wrong. The rest of the team is not
horrible or no matter what Rivers wouldn't be able to snatch defeat
from the jaws of victory.
We'd never see those jaws.
Could the O-line be better? Yes. But Rivers still is throwing making
bad plays even when they do their job.
>> Now NFLRadio is playing Norv's rant from the post-game press conerence
>> over and over. We have become the league's laughingstock and if not for
>> Mark Sanchez an argument could be made that Rivers has become the worst
>> starting QB in the league. Before there was a lot of head scratching
>> amongst front office people throughout the league as Rivers seemed to
>> have the same mechanics as he has had throughout his career. Now, these
>> people are saying his mechanics are so bad that no two of his
>> consecutive throws are thrown with the same motion or footwork. The
>> Monday night Denver game is being specifically cited with his fourth
>> quarter performance being called horrific. League personnel people are
>> saying he has always had a hitch in his throw but in that game he had
>> some throws with two or three hitches in his throws and his footwork is
>> abysmal.
> But his problem is much more mental than physical. If the problem was
> his throwing motion, he wouldn't be able to hit 40 out of 46, as he did
> over a game and a half until the end of Sunday's game.
> <snip>
That 40 of 46 proves my point. How many of those 6 incompletions were actually interceptions? That is what I mean about his refusal to throw the ball away. The defense will simply guess right sometimes, about 50% of the time if the law of averages holds true. On some of those occasions you may be able to hit the checkoff receiver but sometimes even he will be unavailable or covered well enough to warrant taking an incompletion. This is why he's throwing so many stupid interceptions. Whether is be vanity or greed or both he simply cannot accept failure and we lose as a result.
-- *************************************************************************** *******************************************************
David F. Mishiwiec Sr.
“I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all.”
On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:34:59 AM UTC-6, ScottW wrote:
> On Nov 12, 12:19 pm, Robin Miller <complex....@invalid.com> wrote:
> > But his problem is much more mental than physical. If the problem was
> > his throwing motion, he wouldn't be able to hit 40 out of 46, as he did
> > over a game and a half until the end of Sunday's game.
> Yet he was throwing to a way below average talent receiving
> corp...who would have
> thought it possible.
> > > So fellow Chargers fans my question to you is this, where do we go from
> > > here? We do not have another QB on the roster to plug in and give Rivers
> > > a break. It is so bad that I am hoping he gets hurt and has to sit so he
> > > can clear his head. Unfortunately, given his makeup I fear that an
> > > injury may only serve to heighten this overwhelming penchant to force
> > > plays and making avoidable errors that are losing us ballgames.
> > I think it's crazy to wish for an injury. And Whitehurst is not a very
> > good quarterback.
> I've seen a lot of QBs not get it for some time. Whitehurst was not a
> very good QB in Seattle....we don't know how much he's learned from
> those experiences or how he'd do in Norv's system.
> IMO there are thousands of guys who can make the throws required to be
> an NFL QB. The rest is all mental quickness.
> Rivers has never been a great pure passer....even when he completes 40
> of 46 he completes passes that put receivers on the ground that need
> to be catches and runs...or throwing short to the open guy behind the
> D turning a TD into a just a big play.
> > The much bigger problem, I think, is the complete lack of talent on
> > offense. I went through the personnel groups in a post on Sunday.
> Most pundits said the O-line...even with Harris...played well enough
> to beat TB.
> Gates looked pretty fast getting behind the defense on that early
> throw.
> He's a big guy and they usually "look" slow. He's usually faster than
> the LBs trying to cover him. After that play TB doubled him most of
> the remainder of the game.
> I think your assessment is simply wrong. The rest of the team is not
> horrible or no matter what Rivers wouldn't be able to snatch defeat
> from the jaws of victory.
> We'd never see those jaws.
> Could the O-line be better? Yes. But Rivers still is throwing making
> bad plays even when they do their job.
> ScottW
There is plenty of blame to go around but the next time the Oline does its job in a key situation will be the first. Which came first the chicken or the egg? Some of Rivers "bad" plays happens as the game is getting out of control and the line is getting destroyed around him. Yes throwing it away would be better. How much better remains to be seen. When you are punting and your D is constantly choking when you need them most isn't much better.
> That 40 of 46 proves my point. How many of those 6 incompletions were
> actually interceptions? That is what I mean about his refusal to throw
> the ball away. The defense will simply guess right sometimes, about 50%
> of the time if the law of averages holds true. On some of those
> occasions you may be able to hit the checkoff receiver but sometimes
> even he will be unavailable or covered well enough to warrant taking an
> incompletion. This is why he's throwing so many stupid interceptions.
> Whether is be vanity or greed or both he simply cannot accept failure
> and we lose as a result.
You know, David, something I wonder about is whether some of Rivers' problems the last couple of years have just been bad luck. I'm not trying to excuse the interceptions, but I think about the fumbled snap in overtime against Kansas City last season, and then the soft pass right to the defender that was returned for a touchdown in the last game (after which Rivers said that the ball somehow stayed in his hand for too long so that he didn't get any lift on the pass), and I wonder if some of the problems are just some one-in-a-million plays ganging up on Rivers. I mean, some of the plays are simply inexplicable. Others are clearly bad throws, like that final interception in the Tampa Bay game, when he was under pressure and threw the ball short and inside instead of long and to the sideline. Or the underthrown pass to Gates early in the game that would have been a touchdown if thrown properly. In other words, a lot of the bad plays are clearly traceable to a bad throw, but some of the plays are so completely crazy that I wonder if those plays are just really, really bad luck.
On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:50:28 PM UTC-6, Robin Miller wrote:
> David F. Mishiwiec Sr. wrote:
> > That 40 of 46 proves my point. How many of those 6 incompletions were
> > actually interceptions? That is what I mean about his refusal to throw
> > the ball away. The defense will simply guess right sometimes, about 50%
> > of the time if the law of averages holds true. On some of those
> > occasions you may be able to hit the checkoff receiver but sometimes
> > even he will be unavailable or covered well enough to warrant taking an
> > incompletion. This is why he's throwing so many stupid interceptions.
> > Whether is be vanity or greed or both he simply cannot accept failure
> > and we lose as a result.
> You know, David, something I wonder about is whether some of Rivers'
> problems the last couple of years have just been bad luck. I'm not
> trying to excuse the interceptions, but I think about the fumbled snap
> in overtime against Kansas City last season, and then the soft pass
> right to the defender that was returned for a touchdown in the last game
> (after which Rivers said that the ball somehow stayed in his hand for
> too long so that he didn't get any lift on the pass), and I wonder if
> some of the problems are just some one-in-a-million plays ganging up on
> Rivers. I mean, some of the plays are simply inexplicable. Others are
> clearly bad throws, like that final interception in the Tampa Bay game,
> when he was under pressure and threw the ball short and inside instead
> of long and to the sideline. Or the underthrown pass to Gates early in
> the game that would have been a touchdown if thrown properly. In other
> words, a lot of the bad plays are clearly traceable to a bad throw, but
> some of the plays are so completely crazy that I wonder if those plays
> are just really, really bad luck.
> --Robin
I was watching something on Mike Vick where they were talking about luck. They broke down one of his great seasons and said he had 30 interceptable passes. Of those 30 the D got like 12 or something. The bad year he had like 33 interceptable passes and the D got like 20.
> I was watching something on Mike Vick where they were talking about luck. They broke down one of his great seasons and said he had 30 interceptable passes. Of those 30 the D got like 12 or something. The bad year he had like 33 interceptable passes and the D got like 20.
> > I was watching something on Mike Vick where they were talking about luck. They broke down one of his great seasons and said he had 30 interceptable passes. Of those 30 the D got like 12 or something. The bad year he had like 33 interceptable passes and the D got like 20.
> Interesting ...
> --Robin
The only thing I thought when I saw that is I don't see Rivers getting many back. I it seems like most of the passes the throws that are pickable seem to get picked off.
