With the addition of Ochocinco, the Pats still dont have a single WR
Michael
2. Branch: Washed up retread.
3. Tate: Has proven nothing.
4. Welker: System cog. Not a bona fied WR
5. Edelman: Wishes he was Welker.
Put the Ochocinco addition together with Fat Albert and it appears
that BB has gone off the deep end. It can work out well from time to
time when you give up a first round pick for additional later picks.
It can also work out well to take on a guy in the twilight of his
career and get additional production out of him for small risk.
BUT... You cant win year in and year out with the habit of thinking
you can put a swarm of budget manpower on an NFL field and expect to
win anything. The past few years have proven that BB can win without
either cheating or at least having a few bona fied stars on the
field.
Nice to see that they are content to hand the division over to the
Jets rather than try to bring in elite players for once.
eric
So you are saying Haynesworth doesn't have elite talent?
MZ
> 1. Chad Ochocinco: Washed up retread.
> 2. Branch: Washed up retread.
For retreads, they both outperformed Santonio Holmes last year, who
you regularly drool over. You might be lacking objectivity here,
Michael.
> 3. Tate: Has proven nothing.
> 4. Welker: System cog. Not a bona fied WR
Others would claim he's been a top 5 WR in the NFL over the past 4
years. His stats certainly bear this out.
> 5. Edelman: Wishes he was Welker.
>
> Put the Ochocinco addition together with Fat Albert and it appears
> that BB has gone off the deep end. It can work out well from time to
> time when you give up a first round pick for additional later picks.
> It can also work out well to take on a guy in the twilight of his
> career and get additional production out of him for small risk.
> BUT... You cant win year in and year out with the habit of thinking
> you can put a swarm of budget manpower on an NFL field and expect to
> win anything. The past few years have proven that BB can win without
> either cheating or at least having a few bona fied stars on the
> field.
The Patriots won a super bowl in '01 for no other reason than by
signing "washed up retreads."
> Nice to see that they are content to hand the division over to the
> Jets rather than try to bring in elite players for once.
Don't the Jets have to actually win the division for a change before
you declare them the frontrunners? The Jets haven't even made any
additions yet. They've just lost players. The Pats return everyone
from last year, plus all the draft picks they've added and now
Ochocinco and Haynesworth.
Beiselbub©
>
> Nice to see that they are content to hand the division over to the
> Jets rather than try to bring in elite players for once.
Congrats on getting Nnamdi Asomugha. You guys are going to be
unstoppable with those two CBs.
We will have to be content with second place.....
R�vNsf�n �
news:b12c2cef-37f4-4e47...@q15g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
X-No-Archive: Yes
> 1. Chad Ochocinco: Washed up retread.
80 catches with a QB trying to get traded?
> 2. Branch: Washed up retread.
his time with Pats projects to 70 catches
> 3. Tate: Has proven nothing.
???
> 4. Welker: System cog. Not a bona fied WR
Huh?
I agree that his choice here boggles the mind... his own. Welker is a proven
game changer and possession receiver very much in the same mold as a Brandon
Stokely or a Derrick Mason.
--
~Drew
"Talk is cheap ...lets just go play"
Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts
R�vNsf�n �
news:04c46652-2171-449e...@c5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
Chad has a lot to prove even to himself. Now Haynesworth is an elite impact
player. Unlike the Redskins BB will put him in his own element and just let
him do what he did with the Titans. Haynesworth, not Chad, elevates the
Patriots this season.
Beiselbub©
>
> Nice to see that they are content to hand the division over to the
> Jets rather than try to bring in elite players for once.
Congrats on getting Nnamdi. The Jets are going to be tough to beat
now....
Tutor
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > 1. Chad Ochocinco: Washed up retread.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > 4. Welker: System cog. Not a bona fied WR
>
>
>
>
> > 5. Edelman: Wishes he was Welker.
>
> > Put the Ochocinco addition together with Fat Albert and it appears
> > that BB has gone off the deep end. It can work out well from time to
> > time when you give up a first round pick for additional later picks.
> > It can also work out well to take on a guy in the twilight of his
> > career and get additional production out of him for small risk.
> > BUT... You cant win year in and year out with the habit of thinking
> > you can put a swarm of budget manpower on an NFL field and expect to
> > win anything. The past few years have proven that BB can win without
> > either cheating or at least having a few bona fied stars on the
> > field.
>
> > Nice to see that they are content to hand the division over to the
>
> - Show quoted text -
It would be foolish to write off Ocho. He's still got a ton of talent
and can be deadly. Thank goodness Revis eats him for lunch.
Belicheater did fine with malcontents Dillon and Moss. Until proven
otherwise, you have to respect his decision to give Fat Al a chance
for only a 5th rounder and $5 M
Michael
MZ... I not trying to be an ass here or spew fan BS. I know Welker is
super productive and the other guys cotribute. The fact that BB won a
superbowl with recycled guys is exactly what I am trying to get at.
It can work, but I really think BB has made a habbit of avoiding guyz
with super skills because they cost $$$ and in his mind, he does not
need them. The Jets are not that great of a team. They should have
lost Detroit, Cleveland, Texans... Super skilled guys bailed them out
with individual talents. That's what I think the Pats are lacking. A
second punch that you get from guys like Santonio and Revis.
Harlan Lachman
<7a4129c4-add6-42f7...@s17g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
Michael <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote:
FWIW, coming from an old fool with little memory, Michael, I think yours
is an interesting and one of your best posts.
There is something to be said for the theory that great players make
great plays in the clutch.
harlan
Papa Carl
"Harlan Lachman" <har...@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-906C70....@news60.forteinc.com...
In all the years I coached in high school, no matter where it was and with
several different programs the mantra was ALWAYS..."Our stars have to make
the plays." That is just the game, good players have to step up in the
clutch and make the plays. That is the essence of competition and what
decides a game.
MZ
But some of these "recycled guys" had "super skills". You always say
(or at least imply) that "retreads" are not good players. That
players who do poorly in one stint, or whose skills are apparently on
the decline, never rebound. There are some obvious counterexamples --
namely, Dillon and Moss. But, in '01, when they brought in a slew of
"retreads", many of these guys put in top quality seasons. Otis Smith
is an example in '01 -- amazing season. Bryan Cox also had a really
good year, and so did Roman Phifer. There wasn't a better NT in
football than Ted Washington in '03. Then you have Rodney Harrison,
etc. These guys were all crucial towards winning a championship. So
I think you're underestimating the potential impact of players like
this.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
Could be, Mark... This is not a hard science. My main point is that
BB migth be sitting high in his ivory tower given some if his choices
with who he signs and who he lets go. Just because you can get
production out of marginal guys, or guys in the twilight of their
career is not a justificatin to ignore elite players that want big $$
$, act out like king $hit and back every last bit of it up on the
field... especially at critical times in critical games... like
santonio. I'll take a new car lot over a second hand car lot any day
of the week.
eric
The Patriots signed Logan Mankins to a 6 year contract today.
So much for your theory.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
how many spectacular game breaking catches will mankins make this
season ???
eric
> season ???
The Patriots don't sign high salary elite players. Riiiighhht. What do
you think Tom Brady is? Who was the league MVP last year? The Patriots
don't have any wide receivers? What team led the league in touchdown
passes, scoring and pass offense last year? Somebody or something is
catching these passes.
The Patriots don't have any elite talent. Ah ha. How many NE players
went to the Pro Bowl last year? HInt: New England sent 8. Only Atlanta
sent more at 9.
Give me a break.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
yep... they are so elite, they got beat soundly in the playoffs at
home by the jets. the patriots dont have a second punch. the wr's
are system cogs and not singular talents that make things happen
appart from the play. as for tommy... crack into brady's programming
and he's a push over.
eric
If 28-21 is a sound beating what is 45-3?
MZ
System cog? Isn't that what Brady is too? That's what I've been
hearing for a decade at least.
Just curious Michael, have you seen Welker play? If he's not making
plays by himself, I don't know of a player in the NFL who is.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
yes, i've seen welker play... and yes... brady is a system
complementary qb. if they had a single wr that could out match revis
or cromartie one on one, brady woud not have looked so dejected last
january. welker was no help to them in the playoffs past making a few
catches and coming up with some fun pregame foot humor.
lets reel this in a bit and consider my point that is now getting lost
in a pats vs jets pissing contest. banking on a pile of retreads and
lower round draft picks is not a winning habbit even if it worked
once. as i hear tell, it has not worked since they took the spy cams
away and burned the tapes that quite probably included the eagles
superbowl walk through. the pats did a nice job picking up the blitz,
huh ???
the pats have been a playoff paper tiger and will probably remain so
while bb presides from his ivory tower over his high priced stiff
legged qb, budget low round draft choices and horde of retreads. i'd
say the two most dissapointed groups of fans this year will be in new
england and philly.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
that was a fluke
MZ
That was a fluke.
> lets reel this in a bit and consider my point that is now getting lost
> in a pats vs jets pissing contest. banking on a pile of retreads and
> lower round draft picks is not a winning habbit even if it worked
> once. as i hear tell, it has not worked since they took the spy cams
> away and burned the tapes that quite probably included the eagles
> superbowl walk through. the pats did a nice job picking up the blitz,
> huh ???
It wasn't a pissing contest until this jab.
> the pats have been a playoff paper tiger and will probably remain so
> while bb presides from his ivory tower over his high priced stiff
> legged qb, budget low round draft choices and horde of retreads. i'd
> say the two most dissapointed groups of fans this year will be in new
> england and philly.
If that philosophy is so bad, I guess you can add Jets fans to the
list of disappointed, because Tannenbaum only brought in
"retreads" (Plaxico, Mason) and "cast offs" (Cromartie) this year.
Nothing else to improve the team. Unless losing players like Ellis
and Cotchery are considered improvements. Which I'm sure you'll
somehow spin in that way.
Good to see you're back to being the Lenny Bruce of this newsgroup.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
here is how i "spin" it. the jets top priority this year was signing
santonio holmes... an elite talent. a guy that wins games with his
uncommon abilty. then... the jets were ready to break the bank to
pair up the best cb in football with the second best cb in football,
nnamdi. those were the jets hot and heavy blue chip priorities. they
went hell bent for two elite skill guys first and foremost. when
nnamdi fell through, they paid cromartie. cro is not a stiff at the
end of his career. he's a young guy and a top five cb. not like they
signed fat albert and ocho. there you have the contrast between the
jets and the pats. along with retreads and budget guys like plax and
mason, the jets were first and foremost after two of the best players
in the game while the pats were looking for yet another reclamation
project as their big priority. this time around, bb went way off the
deep end. fat albert and ocho ??? he's off his rocker.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
forgot to comment on ellis and cotch... i think swapping out cotch for
mason was a great move. as much as i liked him, cotch's injuries may
be an issue and even i that is not the case, i think mason is the
better player even with his age. as for ellis. you got me on that
one. the pats win that round big time. i dont understand why the
jets did not offer him more than vet min. he played very well last
season and did not show signs of age. all gain for the pats. i just
dont know why they let him go so easy
MZ
> here is how i "spin" it. the jets top priority this year was signing
> santonio holmes... an elite talent. a guy that wins games with his
> uncommon abilty.
Didn't they have him last year?
I think Holmes is a very good receiver, but he's not elite. In fact,
it's been a couple years since he's even put up respectable numbers.
Sort of like Ochocinco, who you say is a has been.
> then... the jets were ready to break the bank to
> pair up the best cb in football with the second best cb in football,
> nnamdi. those were the jets hot and heavy blue chip priorities. they
> went hell bent for two elite skill guys first and foremost. when
> nnamdi fell through, they paid cromartie. cro is not a stiff at the
> end of his career. he's a young guy and a top five cb.
He's a guy that San Diego didn't even want. No chance in hell he's a
top 5 CB. He's not even a top 15 CB. He's a "cast off". They gave
him up for a song. You don't give up top 5 CBs for a song.
FWIW, when we were inundated with stupid NFL rankings during the labor
dispute, I remember one ranking coming out of ESPN on CBs. Cromartie
doesn't come anywhere near it.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/26590/afc-north-shutout-in-cb-rankings
But, more importantly, didn't they have this guy last year?
> not like they
> signed fat albert and ocho. there you have the contrast between the
> jets and the pats.
True. One team tries to improve their standing from last year, the
other team thinks it's fine to stand pat by resigning guys they
already had.
Michael
> On Aug 11, 11:22 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > here is how i "spin" it. the jets top priority this year was signing
> > santonio holmes... an elite talent. a guy that wins games with his
> > uncommon abilty.
>
> Didn't they have him last year?
>
> I think Holmes is a very good receiver, but he's not elite. In fact,
> it's been a couple years since he's even put up respectable numbers.
> Sort of like Ochocinco, who you say is a has been.
>
> > then... the jets were ready to break the bank to
> > pair up the best cb in football with the second best cb in football,
> > nnamdi. those were the jets hot and heavy blue chip priorities. they
> > went hell bent for two elite skill guys first and foremost. when
> > nnamdi fell through, they paid cromartie. cro is not a stiff at the
> > end of his career. he's a young guy and a top five cb.
>
> He's a guy that San Diego didn't even want. No chance in hell he's a
> top 5 CB. He's not even a top 15 CB. He's a "cast off". They gave
> him up for a song. You don't give up top 5 CBs for a song.
I dont agree. You are way under valuing him. He has excellent ball
and cover skills. I agree that he's not physical enough when the time
comes for him to pitch in shallow. The Green TD in the Chargers
playoff loss to the Jets got him his walking papers.
> FWIW, when we were inundated with stupid NFL rankings during the labor
> dispute, I remember one ranking coming out of ESPN on CBs. Cromartie
> doesn't come anywhere near it.
>
> http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/26590/afc-north-shutout-in...
>
> But, more importantly, didn't they have this guy last year?
When you play opposite of Revis, your stats probably wont look too
swift. Nnamdi may have have had that in mind other than wanting to be
on the "dream team". Nnamdi would be number #2 for once. Probably not
where he wants to be.
> > not like they
> > signed fat albert and ocho. there you have the contrast between the
> > jets and the pats.
>
> True. One team tries to improve their standing from last year, the
> other team thinks it's fine to stand pat by resigning guys they
> already had.
Err... I'm not bashing the Pats. Am I a Jet basher when I post
critical editirial about Schotty ??? Was I a Jet basher when I was
foaming at the mouth over an organization that would field Anthony
Clement and Adrian Clarke as starters ??? How about my tirade over
"tripgate" or protest over Rex calling out former players in his
book ??? Really... I'm Just pointing out that BB's allergy to elite,
high priced guys at the skill position is not helping them win playoff
games. IMHO, they should take a lesson from what the Falcons just
did. The Falcons are an excellent team that was lacking an elite wr
that can win games for them the way Santonio does for the Jets. The
Falcons made a major sacrifice to bring in Julio Jones, but it was
absolutly the right thing to do. BB should wake up and do the same.
As always... I have to introduce a new topic in my post... The Falcons
did help their chances by picking up Julio Jones, but the blew it
letting Harvey Dahl walk. That nasty fellow was their entire right
side running game. If I were putting together a "dream line" he'd be
my RG.
MZ
What makes you think that ranking was based on stats? I didn't get
that impression at all.
Look, the point of bringing up that ranking is to demonstrate that
nobody aside from you (and possibly other homers) thinks that
Cromartie is a top 5 CB. He's pretty average, in my view. And I
think if we saw bigger rankings, he'd be pretty average in a lot of
people's views. Never have I seen anyone rank this guy as an elite
player at the position.
But anyway, all this is besides the point. The point is that
Cromartie was a Jet last year, last I checked. So how, exactly, did
they improve the defensive secondary this year? Or the linebacker
group? Or the defensive line? Or the wide receiver group, offensive
line, RB position, or any other position on the team?
>
> > > not like they
> > > signed fat albert and ocho. there you have the contrast between the
> > > jets and the pats.
>
> > True. One team tries to improve their standing from last year, the
> > other team thinks it's fine to stand pat by resigning guys they
> > already had.
>
> Err... I'm not bashing the Pats. Am I a Jet basher when I post
> critical editirial about Schotty ??? Was I a Jet basher when I was
> foaming at the mouth over an organization that would field Anthony
> Clement and Adrian Clarke as starters ??? How about my tirade over
> "tripgate" or protest over Rex calling out former players in his
> book ??? Really... I'm Just pointing out that BB's allergy to elite,
> high priced guys at the skill position is not helping them win playoff
> games. IMHO, they should take a lesson from what the Falcons just
> did. The Falcons are an excellent team that was lacking an elite wr
> that can win games for them the way Santonio does for the Jets. The
> Falcons made a major sacrifice to bring in Julio Jones, but it was
> absolutly the right thing to do. BB should wake up and do the same.
> As always... I have to introduce a new topic in my post... The Falcons
> did help their chances by picking up Julio Jones, but the blew it
> letting Harvey Dahl walk. That nasty fellow was their entire right
> side running game. If I were putting together a "dream line" he'd be
> my RG.
The Falcons personnel decision-making comes mostly from a guy who
learned under Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli.
Anyway, the Pats are doing fine. You're really one of the only people
I've seen say they've done too LITTLE this offseason. They fielded a
very good team last year, and improved several positions (CB, DL, WR)
without really losing anyone of note aside from Stephen Neal, which
they dealt with by drafting two guys. On paper, they've improved.
Michael
Huh ??? I have read at least five articles from respected commentators
that agree with me. I guess you have not been paying much attention.
Here is one for you below
Again... Perhaps they the look better on paper, but I return to the
larger point. What are they better than and, how much better ??? Not
imporoved enough to win a title. I dont think they can without a few
big time stars at the skill position. Game winning guys. Watch what
Ocho, Branch and Welker do for the Pats and whatch what Santonio does
for the Jets and Julio Jones for the Falcons. You'll get the concept
even if BB never does again.
JetsLife
>
> Again... Perhaps they the look better on paper, but I return to the
> larger point. What are they better than and, how much better ??? Not
> imporoved enough to win a title. I dont think they can without a few
> big time stars at the skill position. Game winning guys. Watch what
> Ocho, Branch and Welker do for the Pats and whatch what Santonio does
> for the Jets and Julio Jones for the Falcons. You'll get the concept
>
> - Show quoted text -
Can't we all just get along, Michael & Mark?
Haven't read through the entire thread but you both touch on valid
points:
- BB has had success with past malcontents/vets who wanted out of
another team: Dillon, Moss, etc. It may/may not happen with
Haynesworth & Ochocinco. While not spring chickens it appears they
have tread on their tires. We'll see how they fit in and perform for
the Pats.
- BB's overall strategies in NE have been highly successful through
the years, although the extent & integirty of that success has an
asterisk because of actual cheating and questions if more occurred.
- The Pats are 0-3 in their last three playoff games, their vaunted
passing attack/offense grounded in each game. The past two years the
Pats have been legitimate playoff paper tigers getting upset twice at
home - pounded by the Ravens and falling to the Jets as the No. 1
seed.
So, BB's most recent regular season track record has been stellar, his
postseason track record far from it.
- Jets brass have proven capable themselves assembling their team in
recent years. They've done it slightly differently than the Pats,
deploying more of a 'star-power' type quality approach v. star-
potential type quantity one might say. In the process they've traded
away more draft picks and drafted less players than the Pats.
In return, however, they've added young franchise/franchise-type
players including Revis, Mangold, Brick, Shonn Greene, David Harris &
Santonio and hopefully the biggest one of them all: Sanchez. I say
hopefully because while I would take Sanchez over almost any other QB
out there due to his youth and big-game winning ability, he obviously
has plenty of room for improvement.
- The Jets have had solid success in the regular season in recent
years, but nothing special, unlike the Pats. Meanwhile, they've had
impressive if not great success the past two postseasons, unlike the
Pats.
So you see guys, you both make good points, you two can get along.
Both programs are among the better in the NFL. And we as fans have the
privilege to see the two heated rivals duke it out! And may the Jets
always be the winner!
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
we get along fine... mark knows i like to argue so he never agrees
with me even when im rigt :-)
MZ
>
> Again... Perhaps they the look better on paper, but I return to the
> larger point. What are they better than and, how much better ??? Not
> imporoved enough to win a title. I dont think they can without a few
> big time stars at the skill position. Game winning guys. Watch what
> Ocho, Branch and Welker do for the Pats and whatch what Santonio does
> for the Jets and Julio Jones for the Falcons. You'll get the concept
> even if BB never does again.
Ocho and Welker are better players than Santonio. Santonio can run a
fade, and that's about all he does that distinguishes him from other
middle-tier players. Welker has led the NFL in receptions since he's
been with New England, and has been one of the YAC leaders which is
remarkable because you NEVER see that from underneath guys. Ever.
How you consider him just another receiver is beyond me. It really
is.
For a team with no receivers, the Pats passing offense sure was good
last year. Explain that one. It's all Brady? Or is it all smoke and
mirrors?
So, when the Pats, who finished ahead of the Jets last season by a
wide margin, improved their team by adding a guy of Santonio's caliber
(Ochocinco) on offense, a top tier DL who will be a contributor if his
head is on straight (Haynesworth), a capable DE at a need position
(Ellis), arguably the best OG in football (Mankins only played in 8
games last year), and a slew of guys from the draft, then I think it's
fair to say they're the frontrunner for the division again.
Especially since the other three teams didn't do anything of note to
improve their standing. The Jets and Dolphins, in fact, lost more
than they gained.
PS -- the only thing Whitlock got right in that article is when he
said "I don't get it." I just skimmed it and I found at least six
errors already. Try one from a reputable journalist. I'm sure there
are people with brains who think that those players won't be good. I
asked you to find sources that claimed that Cromartie is a top 5 CB.
Michael
Good grief... I've heard it all now. Ocho better than Santonio ???
Good gravy, man...
>Santonio can run a
> fade, and that's about all he does that distinguishes him from other
> middle-tier players. Welker has led the NFL in receptions since he's
> been with New England, and has been one of the YAC leaders which is
> remarkable because you NEVER see that from underneath guys. Ever.
> How you consider him just another receiver is beyond me. It really
> is.
>
> For a team with no receivers, the Pats passing offense sure was good
> last year. Explain that one. It's all Brady? Or is it all smoke and
> mirrors?
Good enough to be contained for a loss in their own house in the
playoffs where they are never supposed to lose. By a team with no
pass rush and a patch work safety tandem.
> So, when the Pats, who finished ahead of the Jets last season by a
> wide margin, improved their team by adding a guy of Santonio's caliber
> (Ochocinco) on offense, a top tier DL who will be a contributor if his
> head is on straight (Haynesworth), a capable DE at a need position
> (Ellis), arguably the best OG in football (Mankins only played in 8
> games last year), and a slew of guys from the draft, then I think it's
> fair to say they're the frontrunner for the division again.
> Especially since the other three teams didn't do anything of note to
> improve their standing. The Jets and Dolphins, in fact, lost more
> than they gained.
The Pats did not finish ahead of the Jets in the playoffs. The Pats
will probably win the div... AGAIN... And will go out early in the
playoffs... AGAIN
> PS -- the only thing Whitlock got right in that article is when he
> said "I don't get it." I just skimmed it and I found at least six
> errors already. Try one from a reputable journalist. I'm sure there
> are people with brains who think that those players won't be good. I
> asked you to find sources that claimed that Cromartie is a top 5 CB.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well... First you say that I am "the only one" that thinks BB's
decisions are questionable. I send you one of about ten opinion
pieces I read, and what do you do ??? You discount it. Ignoring the
evidence would not work in court, but you seem to think it works here.
Also... I pointed out that Cromartie's stats were not so impressive
because he plays opposite of Revis. You discount that too. What would
it matter if I send you another "opinion piece" that talks up
Cromartie as a top guy ???
Well... Here you go anyway...
Who knows more about being an NFL CB, you or Cromartie ??? Let's use
Cro's expert testimony, OK ???
Quoted from ESPN article linked below
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/6825076/new-york-jets-antonio-cromartie-feels-no-1-corner
"Cromartie said he didn't pay attention to the Asomugha sweepstakes.
Believe him? Asked why he has a chip on his shoulder, he said, "I
still feel like I'm a No. 1 corner. ... Do I feel like Nnamdi is
better than me? No. Do I think any other corner is better than me?
No.""
There you have it Mark... Expert testimony ranking Cromartie as a # 1
CB.
MZ
> On Aug 15, 2:20 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
> > Ocho and Welker are better players than Santonio.
>
> Good grief... I've heard it all now. Ocho better than Santonio ???
> Good gravy, man...
>
> >Santonio can run a
> > fade, and that's about all he does that distinguishes him from other
> > middle-tier players. Welker has led the NFL in receptions since he's
> > been with New England, and has been one of the YAC leaders which is
> > remarkable because you NEVER see that from underneath guys. Ever.
> > How you consider him just another receiver is beyond me. It really
> > is.
>
> > For a team with no receivers, the Pats passing offense sure was good
> > last year. Explain that one. It's all Brady? Or is it all smoke and
> > mirrors?
>
> Good enough to be contained for a loss in their own house in the
> playoffs where they are never supposed to lose. By a team with no
> pass rush and a patch work safety tandem.
Are you saying the Jets passing D was bad? That's what it looks
like. If that's the case (which I don't agree with...), what have
they done to fix it?
As I said already, the playoff game was a fluke. That's what you
called it when the Pats demolished the Jets a few weeks earlier. You
can't have it both ways.
The Pats offense was the top unit in the league last season. Are you
saying it wasn't? Do you honestly think that the offensive side of
the ball is where the Pats will struggle?
> > So, when the Pats, who finished ahead of the Jets last season by a
> > wide margin, improved their team by adding a guy of Santonio's caliber
> > (Ochocinco) on offense, a top tier DL who will be a contributor if his
> > head is on straight (Haynesworth), a capable DE at a need position
> > (Ellis), arguably the best OG in football (Mankins only played in 8
> > games last year), and a slew of guys from the draft, then I think it's
> > fair to say they're the frontrunner for the division again.
> > Especially since the other three teams didn't do anything of note to
> > improve their standing. The Jets and Dolphins, in fact, lost more
> > than they gained.
>
> The Pats did not finish ahead of the Jets in the playoffs. The Pats
> will probably win the div... AGAIN... And will go out early in the
> playoffs... AGAIN
Then I guess you're hoping that the Jets manage to be less sucky than
other teams? It seems you're saying the Pats won't be a good enough
team to do anything, but that the Jets won't win the division and
therefore may not even earn a playoff berth.
You're all over the map here, Michael. You say the Pats won't do
anything, and imply the Jets will, but then concede that they'll lose
the division to the Pats. You talk about the Pats bringing in
"retreads" at the WR position, right after you laud the Jets for
signing Derrick Mason and Plaxico Burress. You're being inconsistent.
>
> > PS -- the only thing Whitlock got right in that article is when he
> > said "I don't get it." I just skimmed it and I found at least six
> > errors already. Try one from a reputable journalist. I'm sure there
> > are people with brains who think that those players won't be good. I
> > asked you to find sources that claimed that Cromartie is a top 5 CB.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Well... First you say that I am "the only one" that thinks BB's
> decisions are questionable.
No. I said you're the only one that thinks that Cromartie is a top 5
CB.
> I send you one of about ten opinion
> pieces I read, and what do you do ??? You discount it. Ignoring the
> evidence would not work in court, but you seem to think it works here.
In court, I would only have to list all the errors Whitlock made
(Whitlock is a notoriously bad journalist...you should know better).
Such as where he said that Haynesworth hates playing NT in the 3-4 and
won't fit in it, which is all well and good, but he's obviously missed
the fact that the Pats have switched to a 4-3.
> Also... I pointed out that Cromartie's stats were not so impressive
> because he plays opposite of Revis. You discount that too. What would
> it matter if I send you another "opinion piece" that talks up
> Cromartie as a top guy ???
I'd love to read it! Probably written by Whitlock.
> Well... Here you go anyway...
>
> Who knows more about being an NFL CB, you or Cromartie ??? Let's use
> Cro's expert testimony, OK ???
>
> Quoted from ESPN article linked belowhttp://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/6825076/new-york-jets-anto...
>
> "Cromartie said he didn't pay attention to the Asomugha sweepstakes.
> Believe him? Asked why he has a chip on his shoulder, he said, "I
> still feel like I'm a No. 1 corner. ... Do I feel like Nnamdi is
> better than me? No. Do I think any other corner is better than me?
> No.""
>
> There you have it Mark... Expert testimony ranking Cromartie as a # 1
> CB.
I'm impressed. Haynesworth said he's the best DL in history, I guess
the Pats got a steal, huh?
JetsLife
>
> - Show quoted text -
Can I throw a bone in to this pissing match?
I've been saying it for some time now: until the Pats re-gain their
gritty toughness from their old cheating days, they may face struggles
winning it all. Everyone knows the Pats are a top heavy pretty boy QB
team. Stop Brady, you stop the Pats.
The Pats are viewed as a soft Mr. Bundchen type team among the big NFL
powers. That's their weakness above all. They lose their manhood.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
some people like my sense of humor. i not trying to compare jets with
pats. the jets have nothing to do with my larger point i just saying
pats need some real stars on offense. irving fryar but with better
personal conduct :-)
MZ
Wait til you see Haynesworth at FB...