Revis mugging non-call/int

[MuahMan]

14 point swing courtesy of the refs. Refs call the obvious PI in the
endzone on that play the Dolphins win that game.

[MuahMan]

On Oct 18, 12:07 am, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 20:47:52 -0700 (PDT), MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >14 point swing courtesy of the refs. Refs call the obvious PI in the
> >endzone on that play the Dolphins win that game.
>

> Thanks for caring... of course, I suspect you didn't notice that Marshall actually slipped
> on that play, because the commentators did tell you that.
>
> Even if it was a PI, for once we got one, & experienced how you must feel all the time,
> the way the refs help you guys.
>
> Nitey nite.

Good you can quit whining about it then. Because without that call,
the Jets are 2-4.

[Señor Patriots]

On Oct 17, 11:06 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 20:47:52 -0700 (PDT), MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >14 point swing courtesy of the refs. Refs call the obvious PI in the
> >endzone on that play the Dolphins win that game.
>

> Thanks for caring... of course, I suspect you didn't notice that Marshall actually slipped
> on that play, because the commentators did tell you that.
>
> Even if it was a PI, for once we got one, & experienced how you must feel all the time,
> the way the refs help you guys.
>
> Nitey nite.

Come on, Burford. Please, calls like that I've never even SEEN, let
alone seen benefit the Patriots. Nobody should get calls like that.
They gotta try to be consistent. Revis was in his chops for at least
10 yards without a let up. He rode Marshall right out of the play and
that was not in the chuck zone and you know it.

My personal view of this is that it's unfortunately the way it goes
sometimes with humans making the calls, humans that can't see
everything. You win some and you lose some and it all evens out in
the end. No one team gets all the calls. Cripes, how many years have
Raiders fans used that lame excuse? Come on, if that was true the
NFL would get RICO'd.

But good for Revis for getting away with it. That's cheating at its
finest - right in front of your eyes and the spell makes you say,
"Marshall slipped." Jeezuz, talk about reaching for excuses. You'd
slip too if somebody was gator wrastling you on the run.

[Tutor]

On Oct 17, 10:47 pm, MuahMan <muah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 14 point swing courtesy of the refs. Refs call the obvious PI in the
> endzone on that play the Dolphins win that game.

hahaha. Must have really gotten under wittle Bri-Bri's skin by
harping on the obvious favorable treatment his cheating Patriots get
every You are such a predictable tool. Too funny.

[Tutor]

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!! Too funny coming from the boy whose team gets
continual favorable calls each and every week for years now. Brady
gets a follicle touched -----> PI! The refs favorable treatment of
the Pats is a mockery. Just like the cheating was. What a despicable
way to be a winning* franchise.

[MZ]

On Oct 18, 2:33 am, Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Brady
> gets a follicle touched -----> PI!

Sanchez had twice as many personal foul calls go his way last season,
per pass attempt. The Jets get favorable treatment.

[Tutor]

your reasoning is faulty here. I think you overlooked the following
consideration:

You can't measure ref favoritism by comparing the *number* of roughing
calls on QBs. That's not the correct stat to be measuring because you
are comparing appl;es to oranges based on the level of QB protection
the OL provides. You have to compare the ratio of roughing calls to
QB contact/hits. That's why saying Brady was 32nd is 100%
meaningless. Brady (and P. Manning) have quick releases and some of
the best damned pass protection during their years. They don't get
hit often. Look at this simple hypothetical : suppose QB A gets hit/
contacted by a pass rusher 50 times and QB B gets hit/contacted 15
times over the same stretch of games (not unlike a Brady/Sanchez
comparison). QB A gets 2 roughing calls and QB A gets 1 during the
same stretch. If all you do is count the roughing call quantity, you
would incorrectly argue that QB A is getting the calls more often.
But in reality, it is QB B getting the calls more often based on
thenumber of times he gets hit. You've got a 1/25 ratio for QB A and
a 1/15 ratio for QB B.

That is the *only* way to make a correct comparison. Frankly, it's
just illogical to count 'em up and say Brady gets least preferential
treatment. Without comparing the ratio of calls to hits, the quantity
stats are meaningless.

[MZ]

On Oct 18, 12:04 pm, Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That is the *only* way to make a correct comparison.   Frankly, it's
> just illogical to count 'em up and say Brady gets least preferential
> treatment.  Without comparing the ratio of calls to hits, the quantity
> stats are meaningless.

According to the following link (I haven't read it closely...just
looked at the tables), Brady was hit 2.4% less often (per attempt)
than Sanchez, and was sacked 2% less often (per attempt) than
Sanchez. But that ~4.4% difference doesn't account for the 100%
difference in PFs. Sanchez got more calls go his way than Brady did.
Even when you account for the QB hit numbers, Brady only makes it to
about middle of the pack in terms of PF calls.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/7/7/2264664/sacks-qb-hits-and-qb-mobility-escapability

[MZ]

On Oct 18, 12:04 pm, Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Oct 18, 8:44 am, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 18, 2:33 am, Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Brady
> > > gets a follicle touched -----> PI!
>
> > Sanchez had twice as many personal foul calls go his way last season,
> > per pass attempt.  The Jets get favorable treatment.
>
> your reasoning is faulty here.  I think you overlooked the following
> consideration:
>
> You can't measure ref favoritism by comparing the *number* of roughing
> calls on QBs.  That's not the correct stat to be measuring because you
> are comparing appl;es to oranges based on the level of QB protection
> the OL provides.  You have to compare the ratio of roughing calls to
> QB contact/hits.  That's why saying Brady was 32nd is 100%
> meaningless.  Brady (and P. Manning) have quick releases and some of
> the best damned pass protection during their years.  They don't get
> hit often.

Please provide data to back up this assertion. Because I'm pretty
sure you have it backwards. Brady takes a lot of hits. [Probably
because he holds the ball so damned long...]

But I agree with your metric.

Since Jason Campbell draws nearly 10 times as many PFs as Brady and
Manning, are you arguing that Brady and Manning are hit 10 times less
often than Campbell?

[Tutor]

> http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/7/7/2264664/sacks-qb-hits-and-qb-m...

Id like to see a multi year, ratio comparison. The roughing/illegal
hit calls to QB hits is the only valid way to compare. I do think the
refs backed off Brady in 2010 because of all the flack from guys like
Harrison and the classic video of Brady throwing up his arms, teary
eyed and all, after being grazed and the ref staring at him for a
couple of seconds and then throwing the flag. That was one
embarrasing moment for the NFL. Overall, the Pats get calls other
teams don't. Most recently it was that overturned PI for feet tangled
nonsense that happened the very next week and went against the jetsw.
Identical. Never fails. Look Mark, if you and your fellow Pats fans
really insist on beleiving that the refs don't favor the Pats, be my
guest and enjoy that delusion the same way Steeler fans do. I promise
that if ever the day comes when the Jets start getting such
preferential treatment, i'll ignore it too, but that is not bloody
likely especially with our loudmouth HC out there.

[Tutor]

> often than Campbell?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

why do you think that Campbell gets 10x as many penalty flags thrown
on his behalf than Brady? That data seems awfully fishy. Not so sure
i would be relying on that stat. I wouldn't doubt he gets hit many
times more than Manning or Brady. At least we have thankfully moved
away from merely counting the number of penalty flags and using that
to claim who is getting the calls. That really made no sense at all
Mark. And I'll bet people were buying it too. I'm glad you agree that
it should be based on a comparison of the ratio of flags to hits and
not just on the number of flags thrown.

[Papa Carl]

"Tutor" <dcat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a93859c4-34cc-4b53...@v8g2000pro.googlegroups.com...

Figure out where Vick fits in this. He gets the crap beat out of him and
very few penalties. Obviously they are thinking he will run and is a
threat, but when he is standing in the pocket it should all be the same.
I'd guess Brady does not get the calls now because people are flat out
afraid to go near him. The rule is named after him...that has to give him
some level of protection. As a QB gets better and means money to the League
the flags get thrown I think....even in Sanchez case...he got put into the
limelight, even though he did not earn it, and got some protection no doubt.
But watching a bunch of games I do not think it is a very standardized call
at all.

[Tutor]

On Oct 18, 3:26 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Tutor" <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> at all.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Again the larger point is which way does the benefit of the doubt
run? In the Pats' case, I contend it is weighed heavily towards
them. Moving away from the roughing calls for a minute, let's take
another look at last night's (correct) Revis non PI call (TD play):
Same exact play, same exact defender, same location, but instead of
Moore-to-Marshall, it's Brady-to-Branch. Does a flag for PI or
defensive holding get thrown against the Jets? Honestly?

[Papa Carl]

"Tutor" <dcat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:ff32b085-dbf2-4bc6...@y22g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

Oh Hell...the overall situation seems to me to be always take care of a
couple teams...especially NE and Pitt. I'm sure there are others, but I
really only think of them immediately. Back in the day I always felt the
calls went to Miami's favor. I seriously think that officiating does have
way too much influence in the outcome of way too many games. They have too
many damned rules now too, and that makes the "selection" even more of a
problem in terms of calling it or not. How much crap can one person
remember in an instant? They can't, so they go into a situation looking to
call something...my opinion.

[MuahMan]

If not for shady refs the Jets would be 2-4 after last night. They
were awarded a 14 point swing. Miami would have been up 10-0.

[MZ]

I think it's more likely that there's an error in your perception than
there is an error by Mike Perriera. He has a reputation (whether you
like him or not) to not fabricate data. You were right to challenge
whether or not this is the best metric to use -- and I agree with you
about how to modify it -- but I think you're grasping at straws here
by suggesting that there's something fishy going on. You're really
being hard-headed on this one, tut.

>  I wouldn't doubt he gets hit many
> times more than Manning or Brady.  At least we have thankfully moved
> away from merely counting the number of penalty flags and using that
> to claim who is getting the calls.  That really made no sense at all
> Mark. And I'll bet people were buying it too. I'm glad you agree that
> it should be based on a comparison of the ratio of flags to hits and
> not just on the number of flags thrown.

Ok. So are you saying that Campbell gets hit 10x as often to account
for the discrepancy?

[MZ]

Tutor,

I found a more reliable statistic for QB hits:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_QBHIT&tabSeq=2&season=2010&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=true&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=true

Apparently, nfl.com is now compiling offensive line stats (which is
pretty cool).

Anyway, this should put to rest the idea that Brady gets more PF calls
than other QBs once and for all. Enjoy!

[Tutor]

> http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatis...

>
> Apparently, nfl.com is now compiling offensive line stats (which is
> pretty cool).
>
> Anyway, this should put to rest the idea that Brady gets more PF calls

> than other QBs once and for all.  Enjoy!- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

that is cool. Now I need the link (again - sorry) which lists the
quantity of penalty flags against pass rushers (roughing, blows to the
head, the whole enchilada, etc.)

It also goes back to 2009, but not before. So there are actually 2
years of data.

And to my fellow Jets fans.... MZ just gave you the link to show you
how damned good and protective of Sanchez the OL has been the last 2
years. Jets OL was 4th best in the league at preventing QB hits in
2009 (53 hits) and 3rd best in 2010 (52 hits). Compare that
Jacksonville, rated worst in both years (poor David Garrard, no wonder
why he wants the full year off) (110 hits in 2010 and 126 in 2009).

I shuddered when toggling to see the results for 2011 YTD: Jets now
24th in preventing QB hits. (actually thought it would be worse).

[John C TX]

Dave, those stats were my argument to hold on to Faneca. The 4 sacks
he gave up were offset by what he could do when it called for a guard
to pull. Granted he is out of the league I just wished we replaced him
with a similar style of guard.

[Tutor]

> with a similar style of guard.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Faneca's strength was leading the run blocking (and being a leader on
the line). By the time he got to the Jets, his pass protection skills
had declined tremendously. At times the term "turnstile" seemed to be
appropriate. He became a liability. A very expensive one.
Interestingly, the Jets saved next to no money when they cut him, yet
they elected to do so anyway.

[Julio Sanchez]

A lot of this has to do with the ability of the opponents to sack the
qb.
The NFC north, who both the Jets and Pats are playing, are all in the
top 10 in sacks, and other teams like the Ravens and Oakland are right
up there. Brady is getting sacked a lot too this year and I expect it
to
continue for that reason.
SD is at the bottom though, and I expect the Jets to do pretty well
against them because Sanchez won't have such happy feet.
Julio

[John C TX]

He was either a pain in the ass or obviously still better than
Slasusson & he would make them look bad.

As for the turnstile we went from Faneca who allowed 7 sacks in 2009
to Slasusson who gave up 5.5 and lost a whole bunch of mobility in the
process.

[Papa Carl]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2e177aa9-979d-4a43...@g27g2000pro.googlegroups.com...

The O line works as a unit...and it needs a leader who knows HOW to make it
work that way. If you get rid of a guy you not only need to replace him
with ability equal or better but also someone who can fill his other
rolls...if that guy was the leader, the one who acted like the glue and
someone else does not pick up that role you have a huge problem...as the
Jets do now.