Re: A few things... & g'nite...
Johnny Morongo
> I'd love to think this could be a championship year, but we have no pass rush.
> No matter how much blitzing we do, a good QB can pick us apart in crunch time.
>
> It'll take Revis 'til after the bye, to look like Revis. He was slow & beaten a ton
> tonight. I love Leonard, but he's terrible in coverage.
> So, we need at least one stud on the DL.
> Never thought I'd say this, but I hope Coleman's injury isn't serious ;)
>
> Our OL was amazing in protection tonight. Would've liked to see more Shonn.
> And we need a red zone offense.
>
> Happy we won, but shouldn't have been this close.
Be happy. Be very happy. Although you're right about Revis. How much
did he cost us?
There's gonna be a lot of splainin' to do on the D and in the "red
zone", Rucy.
papa.carl44
"buRford" <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
news:8bp7b6dnmhmhcrcde...@4ax.com...
> I'd love to think this could be a championship year, but we have no pass
> rush.
> No matter how much blitzing we do, a good QB can pick us apart in crunch
> time.
>
> It'll take Revis 'til after the bye, to look like Revis. He was slow &
> beaten a ton
> tonight. I love Leonard, but he's terrible in coverage.
> So, we need at least one stud on the DL.
> Never thought I'd say this, but I hope Coleman's injury isn't serious ;)
>
> Our OL was amazing in protection tonight. Would've liked to see more
> Shonn.
> And we need a red zone offense.
>
> Happy we won, but shouldn't have been this close.
First down for Schott is a give away.....absolutely no plan, scheme or
ideas. I liked a lot of individual plays, but it doesn't have any flow to
it. One successful play doesn't produce something else that should work and
when something is a bust he just seems to want to come back to it hoping it
will work next time.....that doesn't happen unless you make it happen by the
plays called inbetween. The O line was getting it done in this game and
they had stuff open in the middle coming out of a "bunch" formation or with
the motion stuff, and he backs out of that too. I also think Rex gambles
too much, it worked for him in the end in this game, but will kill them at
some critical point. The Hell with Revis...Cromartie is the Island. Revis
had better start earning some of that money.
John C TX
wrote:
> "buRford" <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8bp7b6dnmhmhcrcde...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > I'd love to think this could be a championship year, but we have no pass
> > rush.
> > No matter how much blitzing we do, a good QB can pick us apart in crunch
> > time.
>
> > It'll take Revis 'til after the bye, to look like Revis. He was slow &
> > beaten a ton
> > tonight. I love Leonard, but he's terrible in coverage.
> > So, we need at least one stud on the DL.
> > Never thought I'd say this, but I hope Coleman's injury isn't serious ;)
>
> > Our OL was amazing in protection tonight. Would've liked to see more
> > Shonn.
> > And we need a red zone offense.
>
> > Happy we won, but shouldn't have been this close.
>
> First down for Schott is a give away.....absolutely no plan, scheme or
> ideas. I liked a lot of individual plays, but it doesn't have any flow to
> it. One successful play doesn't produce something else that should work and
> when something is a bust he just seems to want to come back to it hoping it
> will work next time.....that doesn't happen unless you make it happen by the
> plays called inbetween. The O line was getting it done in this game and
> they had stuff open in the middle coming out of a "bunch" formation or with
> the motion stuff, and he backs out of that too.
When that monsoon hit when we had 1st & goal from the 4. Passing 3
times may not have been the brightest move although I can't remember
our TO situation.
There is some hope. Holmes had 3 catches for 1st downs although he
did drop a big one but things shoudl open up for Edwards & Cotchery
although Keller will see a lot of 2x coverage which also should create
opportunities.
>I also think Rex gambles
> too much, it worked for him in the end in this game, but will kill them at
> some critical point. The Hell with Revis...Cromartie is the Island. Revis
> had better start earning some of that money.
Revis is just not in shape. If he was a in good shape when he turned
up he is no doubt at lower level of fitness then he was then due to
the hamstring.
Some of those catches like Hearvin's at the end was just an incredible
throw & catch. Sometimes the other team plays well too. I don't know
where I am with all his risk. He changed it up vs the Pats & the
Fins. I guess he figured giving Favre time was not the right
choice.
The positives
There really were only two breakdowns Hearvin's 2nd TD -- good play by
favre-- and Moss' catch.
Harlan Lachman
buRford <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> I'd love to think this could be a championship year, but we have no pass
> rush.
> No matter how much blitzing we do, a good QB can pick us apart in crunch
> time.
>
> It'll take Revis 'til after the bye, to look like Revis. He was slow &
> beaten a ton
> tonight. I love Leonard, but he's terrible in coverage.
> So, we need at least one stud on the DL.
> Never thought I'd say this, but I hope Coleman's injury isn't serious ;)
>
> Our OL was amazing in protection tonight. Would've liked to see more Shonn.
> And we need a red zone offense.
>
> Happy we won, but shouldn't have been this close.
Burf, our Defense played really well tonight (except for that POS Erik
Smith). Cro gave up one TD to Moss on one of the prettiest passes of the
year. Revis did not get safety help on one play. And the AP and his
cohorts failed to rush for 100 yards in game where our RB exceeded 150.
If our WR had not dropped more than a half dozen key passes, we would
have all had a more comfortable evening. If Sanchez had not been high
so many times last night, we would have been less anxious.
Let's focus on what ails us.
harlan
Harlan Lachman
graybeard <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:28:03 -0700 (PDT) John C TX
> <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >There really were only two breakdowns Hearvin's 2nd TD -- good play by
> >favre-- and Moss' catch.
>
> Even on those, Harvin had to make an acrobatic catch to go up for the
> ball and keep his feet inbounds, and the TD to Moss required an
> absolutely perfect throw by Favre, because Cromartie actually had pretty
> good coverage on Moss on that play.
Gray, I agree.
H
Harlan Lachman
buRford <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> The flow issue with Schott, probably won't go away until he does.
> So, here's to a solid offense this year, and his ticket to a head-coaching
> gig.
> I'm not so sure that some of the gambles, just aren't necessity, since we
> really have no
> pass rush, without the blitzing (I assume that's what you're speaking of).
>
> As for Revis, I thought it was a mistake to play him last night. I always
> figured it
> would make more sense, to rest him 'til after the bye. I doubt he'll play
> next week, as
> he looked terrible, & said after the game that it was hurting him after the
> 1st quarter.
> This seems to be a problem Rex has. He played Revis in the Pats game, after
> he initially
> injured himself... a dumb move. He left it up to Revis to make the decision
> to play last
> night... another dumb move. Of course, it could be that the Jets medical
> staff are giving
> him bad advice. But, he knows the risks of hammy injuries, & how they can
> become chronic
> unless rested. At this point, instead of Revis being fully healed for after
> the bye, the
> aggravation of the injury, last night, might make Revis' injury a season-long
> thing.
Burf, I disagree with this too. Would you have rather seen Lowery all
game? Pace and Revis did not look like the defenders they were before
their absences. Both will either get better or they won't. But the more
they play, the greater the likelihood they may get it back.
While Lowery made a great play on the pick six, he remains a little too
Erik Smith slow in the backfield. Drew got banged up.
We were lucky Revis could go and would have been luckier if Brodney had
been in position on the Harvin TD.
harlan
John C TX
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:28:03 -0700 (PDT) John C TX
>
> >There really were only two breakdowns Hearvin's 2nd TD -- good play by
> >favre-- and Moss' catch.
>
> ball and keep his feet inbounds, and the TD to Moss required an
> absolutely perfect throw by Favre, because Cromartie actually had pretty
> good coverage on Moss on that play.
> graybeard
I hate it when fan's forget the other team can play as well.
Harlan Lachman
buRford <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> Revis is injured, Harlan... he couldn't cover anyone last night.
I don't know what game you were watching but the Vikings hardly passed
the ball at all in the first half. If you check the tape or the play by
play on ESPN you will see that others gave up yardage (some on zone
defenses). Revis looked sorry on two plays. The TD to Harvin that Poole
got benched for not coming up soon enough and the pass to Harvin that
Revis gave up on, assuming the inept Erik Smith could finish a blitz.
Two botches and one knock down (could have been an offensive pass
interference that went for an incomplete pass) don't sound horrific to
me.
h
papa.carl44
"Harlan Lachman" <har...@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-9E4971....@news60.forteinc.com...
So how lucky are they going to be when Revis can't play down the road? If
he reaggravated it significantly it will be with him all season and he will
never play well.
papa.carl44
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0a0ef11a-a0aa-493e...@a15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Nobody is forgetting that....the issue is when the D plays really well
against a good team, like Moss and Favre, points will be scored..it happens.
THAT is when the offense has to make it all count...and the Jets don't do
that, you can not pass up the opportunites they had against a team with
players like that. The D played exceptionally well and some great plays
were made against them...that means the O MUST make the plays and score
TD's.
John C TX
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:0a0ef11a-a0aa-493e...@a15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
H, I am not referring to you.
Some of the criticism ignored that fact. Granted some of it came
last night when anxiety was at the toxic level in all our heads but it
ignores the fact that Favre does this, A LOT. PHarvin & Moss are
studs. They have a very good front 7 & a stud CB. They almost beat
the Saints. They shoudl have beat the Fins -- guess what they
literally dropped the ball in that game.
Harlan Lachman
"papa.carl44" <papad...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
Papa, I have never had a hamstring. I have had ankle problems and to
some extent think the issues are similar in one respect: There is no
assurance that rest will avoid reoccurrence, that other than prolonged
hiatus (six months), the player will fully recuperate without symptoms,
including those caused by an overall loss of fitness during inaction; or
that there is a way to know how long a rest will avoid swelling or
soreness and whether the swelling and soreness will be temporary, able
to be withstood, or harmful to high level performance.
Unlike with the Mets, I trust the Jets' doctors to ensure that Revis
played because it was time.
harlan
papa.carl44
Harlan, You have NO idea what you are talking about. A "hamstring" is an
injury to a muscle, actually one of the largest and most used muscles in our
body. It can go from anything to pulled to torn and all in between. Time
takes time...and if it is hurt before it comes back it will increase the
damage. If the thing was just a pulled muscle it can always still come
back. I'd bet the house that a lot of this has to do with his skipping
camp...you can run all you want by yourself and it is simply not the same
kind of conditioning. The reports today are that swelling has returned and
that is absolutely not good. If you have followed any of the medical issues
surrounding the NFL you should be aware that guys coming back before they
are ready is a huge problem. It is not like baseball either, you can not
compare the two at all. The amount of stress that is placed on a hamstring
injury every time he attempts to accelerate and then stop, or especially in
contact is far greater than in non contact sports. Playing on artificial
surfaces plays a role in this. Players have missed an entire season with a
severe hamstring injury. In a joint injury there is some gain to creating
range of motion and actually forcing movement, that is not the case with a
muscle tear or severe pull or strain. My guess is that if there is indeed
swelling he tore some of it.
As far as his play last night, they were in man coverage underneath when he
was beaten on a crossing route by Harvin, he did not look at all like "the
island"....he was servicable at best and even when we saw him attempting to
hit he was very tentative and looked shaky. When you pay a guy that much,
you expect him to play with some pain and I would guess he minimizes
it....because he knows it is his own fault. There have been some guys who
never really come back from a severe injury of the hamstring. More notably
it has ruined a lot of track guys. I absolutely disagree with you about
what rest can do...it can work wonders and that is a simple fact. I played
the game long enough and coached for over two decades and I'm aware of some
of the basics. Plus....my family is in medicine and my son played at a
fairly high level...and lost half a year of college with a hamstring that
was aggravated because he played too soon, and cut too quickly on a wet
astro turf field. He was a running back who was simply cutting back on a
trap play, the muscle strain became a tear and that was it.
Papa Carl
John C TX
>
>
>
> > In article <zL6dnS3noKQKKCnRnZ2dnUVZ_rKdn...@giganews.com>,
> > "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> "Harlan Lachman" <har...@eeivt.com> wrote in message
> >>news:harlan-9E4971....@news60.forteinc.com...
> >> > buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:35:26 -0400, "papa.carl44"
>
> >> >> >"buRford" <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
Papa with his money it could have been. In fact it would take less
time because he didn't have the classroom issues to deal with and
every thing that goes on in camp.
>The reports today are that swelling has returned and
> that is absolutely not good. If you have followed any of the medical issues
> surrounding the NFL you should be aware that guys coming back before they
> are ready is a huge problem. It is not like baseball either, you can not
> compare the two at all. The amount of stress that is placed on a hamstring
> injury every time he attempts to accelerate and then stop, or especially in
> contact is far greater than in non contact sports. Playing on artificial
> surfaces plays a role in this.
I agree 100% here. In the sport I know a little bit more about --at
the professional level-- they absolutely will never train two days in
a row on artificial surface. There is a huge link between hamstring &
quad pulls to artificial surfaces in the fast twitch muscle guys.
>Players have missed an entire season with a
> severe hamstring injury. In a joint injury there is some gain to creating
> range of motion and actually forcing movement, that is not the case with a
> muscle tear or severe pull or strain. My guess is that if there is indeed
> swelling he tore some of it.
Resting it through the bye was the proper route to go.
>
> As far as his play last night, they were in man coverage underneath when he
> was beaten on a crossing route by Harvin, he did not look at all like "the
> island"....he was servicable at best and even when we saw him attempting to
> hit he was very tentative and looked shaky. When you pay a guy that much,
> you expect him to play with some pain and I would guess he minimizes
> it....because he knows it is his own fault.
Another issue here is muscle atrophy that will happen across his
body. Think about any of the lifting they do to retain strength &
which one can he do that isn't activating the hamstring?
papa.carl44
___________________________________________________________________________
You can't hit...and tackle live....and that is a big part of using that set
of muscles in the "football" way.
If this plays out all season he should give back a bundle of his mney.
___________________________________________________________________________
papa.carl44
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>> ___________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> You can't hit...and tackle live....and that is a big part of using that
>> set
>> of muscles in the "football" way.
>>
>> If this plays out all season he should give back a bundle of his mney.
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________
>
> went through this with buRf. The term game fit drives me crazy. You
> certainly need it for timing or execution but that isn't necessarily
> fitness or strength. Whatever side of this argument is he wasn't
> ready and he could have been.
>
> Papa the interesting part is the modern way is in many ways what was
> going on in the 30-50's. It has been awhile since I read it but the US
> Army put some soldiers through a 1950 PT test & was shocked how less
> fit these trained soldiers were. They have changed their ways.
??????????
Your logic baffles me...he messed it up running...OK, no problem....he was
at risk because he did not come in ready, and it takes a Hell of a lot out
of you when you get hit...that is always a big issue with anyone coming back
from an absence for any reason. When I was in great shape I could go out
and work, run and excercise all day...add getting hit and hitting, playing
football...and the curve changes in a hurry. The mere process of the
contact takes a lot more out of you and then when you are tired, and try to
exert yourself to full speed, top stregnth or whatever you get hurt. You
just can't duplicate the action...and that is about the only reason they
continue to occasionally go live throughout a season. I follow what you are
saying...but it sure isn't my experience from playing and a lot of years
coaching.
JetsLife
> I'd love to think this could be a championship year, but we have no pass rush.
> No matter how much blitzing we do, a good QB can pick us apart in crunch time.
>
> It'll take Revis 'til after the bye, to look like Revis. He was slow & beaten a ton
> tonight. I love Leonard, but he's terrible in coverage.
> So, we need at least one stud on the DL.
> Never thought I'd say this, but I hope Coleman's injury isn't serious ;)
>
> Our OL was amazing in protection tonight. Would've liked to see more Shonn.
> And we need a red zone offense.
>
> Happy we won, but shouldn't have been this close.
The best passing offenses can generally inflict damage on any NFL
defense over the course of a game. It's very difficult to completely
stop a potent passing offense for 60 minutes.
This isn't to say the Jets have a good passing defense - they don't.
The instability and new personnel in the secondary and lack of 4-man
pass rush is hurting the Jets pass D big time.
Here's hoping the secondary rounds into form as the weeks pass, and
thus improves the pass defense. So far, with a stronger offense the
Jets have demonstrated they can contend with and defeat any team.
JetsLife
wrote:
> "buRford" <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
I used to hate Schott as much as anyone. And perhaps I still do. But
I'm not going to be blinded by past hatred. I like to focus on results
and facts. And so far I think the results demonstrate he's acquitted
himself fairly well this season save Baltimore.
If you examine Monday night's game closely, it was actually Sanchez
and his receivers who most cost the Jets (not to mention a couple
costly penalties). Receivers were open; at least one or two TDs could/
should have been converted instead of FGs. But either Sanchez missed
the throw or the receiver dropped it. Some of the miscues were in
driving rain.
And remember, this offense is not just Schott's: it's Rex's. Rex is
the one who wants a run-heavy ground & pound offense. And overall the
results show Rex, Schott and the entire offense have done well this
year. Not great, but good, solid. I imagine most opposing NFL coaches
would agree. The team's record, points per game and other stats bear
it out.
I think Schott is getting unfairly punished now for his past sins.
Let's live in the present and focus on the actual results.