Re: Cimini on Ryan
Ritchie
yoyodog
"Ritchie" <ritch...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9fded5cc-65b5-4830...@z27g2000prz.googlegroups.com...
> Wow, in regards to McKnight I think Ryan is smoking something.
Why? He kept quiet, worked hard and had a great game in the one he played
in. The puking, dropsies and fumbles happened in last year's pre-season.
Why shouldn't he get a shot?
Michael
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > "Ritchie" <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> He had two great returns last summer in pre-season.
I hope McKnight proves me right :-) I said after he was drafted: "he
is a serious piece of manpower"
I liked him a lot when I saw him at USC. He did displayed talent, but
Carol did not draft him. My conclusion was that he was not a hard
worker or had attitude issues, hence Carol avoided him. Ryan’s
treatment of McKnight also suggests the same. IMHO, Ryan put him in
the dog house to cure him of his irresponsible approach to work.
Obviously, McKnight got the message. Ryan feels the time for
thrashing is over and I trust his judgement. Now all that is left is
the talent part without the undesirable qualities that prompted carol
to take a pass. I ber Rex is right. McKnight will be a quality
contributor now.
Ritchie
> "Ritchie" <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
He had a good game in a meaningless game. He'll have to show it when
it counts.
Papa Carl
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:de1c9910-b528-4826...@o21g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
X-No-Archive: Yes
Although he leads with Taylor there is something in there for those
that want the ball spread around more in the backfield as well as
those who want more cowbell. I mean Greene.
He also talks about McKnight.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/4870/rex-doesnt-rule-out-a-taylor-return
When Rex Ryan speaks, we listen.
On Tuesday, Ryan was one of 31 head coaches that spoke to reporters at
a breakfast at the NFL owners' meetings in New Orleans. (Guess which
coach was a no-show? Hint: He works to the north, has three Super Bowl
rings and once served as the HC of the NYJ for about a minute.)
Anyway, Ryan touched on a number of topics, such as:
• He said OLB Jason Taylor, cut recently because of a $10 million
roster bonus, could return.
"I’m not closing the book on Jason Taylor," Ryan said. "Jason may come
back. Jason made plays for us. Again, you’d prefer to have a younger
guy that can contribute on [special] teams, because Jason is obviously
a specialist. But Jason makes plays."
• He said he expects Mark Brunell to return as the No. 2 quarterback.
"I can say this: We are not looking for a quarterback," Ryan said.
Brunell is under contract for 2011.
• He downplayed the notion that the Jets need to draft a pass rusher.
"Everybody needs pass rushers," he said. "We were 10th in the league
last year in sacks and third in the league in defense, and yet we need
pass rushers. If we need them, then how about these other teams?
Everybody needs pass rushers. Clearly, if a pass-rusher’s there and we
think he’s the best player, then that’s the guy we’ll take."
• Ryan hedged a bit when asked if he wants to re-sign CB Antonio
Cromartie.
"I don’t want to deal with specific guys, but I will say this: We’d
like to get all our players back," he said. "Cromartie had a great
year for us. He did a great job in the return game as well, when Brad
(Smith) went down. But I don’t really want to focus on a specific
guy."
Hearing that the Jets have prioritized WRs Santonio Holmes and Braylon
Edwards ahead of Cromartie.
• Ryan said Jim Leonhard is doing well in his recovery from a broken
leg, but he doesn't expect Leonhard to be the punt returner anymore.
That job will go to Joe McKnight and, possibly, Jerricho Cotchery.
"I’m excited to see Joe return some balls back there," Ryan said.
"He’s come a million miles. He’s clearly the kind of athlete and
runner you want back there."
Ryan also said McKnight will get more work at running back.
"I think he’s earned more opportunities," Ryan said. "He could play
ahead of Shonn (Greene) and LT in some things. He’s earned that.
Clearly, we have a 1-2 punch with Shonn Greene as our bell cow and LT
[as the third-down back]. But I think this kid Joe McKnight has earned
some reps."
My experience was that whenever a HC started touting some guy that had not
yet shown anything it was usually to create some smoke and always to protect
the perception of their judgment for working with that player. I'll believe
it when I see it. Rex was going to turn Ghoston into an all-pro too.
Michael
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:de1c9910-b528-4826...@o21g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> Although he leads with Taylor there is something in there for those
> that want the ball spread around more in the backfield as well as
> those who want more cowbell. I mean Greene.
>
> He also talks about McKnight.
>
gholston did not do a single thing even in a preseaon game. how many
yards did mcknight run for in the buff game ??? mcknight is not
gholston. i agree though, i will believe it when mcnight produces
when it means somthing
Papa Carl
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:86ab38bc-4e1d-4507...@q36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
That Buffalo game was not even a preseason game. In preseason guys are
trying to win a spot on a team....in that game it as all over and nobody
gave a crap. You can see stuff like that on any Friday night, when the
scrubs get to play in a high school game because the opponent is so bad.
Michael
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
and a professional coach with a reputation to guard would tollerate
his players taking a day off during the regular season ??? i'll buy
that buffalo sucked, but i wont buy that they did not try. i also
thought that hunter and turner played very well on the jet line. both
of those guys can step in and do the job. turner can play center, T
and G. Hunter is a better pass blocker than Woody. I hope they stay
on the team.
Papa Carl
X-No-Archive: Yes
> gholston did not do a single thing even in a preseaon game. how many
> yards did mcknight run for in the buff game ??? mcknight is not
> gholston. i agree though, i will believe it when mcnight produces
> when it means somthing
>
> That Buffalo game was not even a preseason game. In preseason guys are
> trying to win a spot on a team....in that game it as all over and nobody
> gave a crap. You can see stuff like that on any Friday night, when the
> scrubs get to play in a high school game because the opponent is so bad.
So a regular season game played by starters, as bad as they & the team
were/are, means less than regular season time against 3rd stringers,
or worse guys that were cut? I don't buy it.
I have NO idea what you mean...regular season guys who were cut are still
playing?
Papa Carl
X-No-Archive: Yes
> My experience was that whenever a HC started touting some guy that had not
> yet shown anything it was usually to create some smoke and always to
> protect
> the perception of their judgment for working with that player. I'll
> believe
> it when I see it. Rex was going to turn Ghoston into an all-pro too.
McKnight may or may not have been Rex. Like Gholston, it may be a case
of circling the company wagons.
They guy was an embarrassment from the start...throwing up at a rookie
camp????? They invested a lot in this guy....he was the butt of jokes in
camp. They can't just not try to the utmost to salvage this
investment...and all I'm saying is I'm not believing one word of that stuff
Rex spoons out...I'll believe he is a real deal player when he shows
it...and I do not think one game against possibly the worst team in the
League shows it. If some do...good for them, we think differently.
Michael
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:2359b5e5-7ea8-4b7e...@y31g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
what is the big deal with throwing up at a rookie camp ??? things
other than nerves or being in bad shape could have induced it.
Papa Carl
So you didn't read or follow the story???? He couldn't pass the physical he
was in such bad shape. You know what...the guy will be an all pro, they
should trade LT for sure, let go of Shonn too. On the other hand, I wish
they still had Woodhead, I need to throw another log on the fire since you
seem to want an argument. WE WILL SEE how he plays this year....nobody
knows a damn thing till then.
Michael
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
you been reading my posts for a long time. i know i gonna take my
lumps for it, but most of my ideas are gut feelings and instincts with
just a tad bit of qualified info tossed in. i got the feeling that
mcknights issues were known by rex and the staff. i bet mcknight was
set up for an early ass kicking. not saying he was not in bad shape in
camp, but they probably kicked his ass with spades. you can't make a
guy sometimes if you dont break him first. mcknigths story thus far
sounds like a classic. heat the raw metal in the forge... beat it
into a sword. i was at the bills game. that guy looked darn well
driven and very focused. anything but the slacker he showed up as.
and i hope he is a good player or the jets could be in big trouble.
As much as I like LT, he is going to wear out. Green makes hard
contact and comes up hurting. He is not a tuff guy. I dont have a lot
of hope for Green or LT's durability
Papa Carl
X-No-Archive: Yes
He also has some very good returns in pre-season which yo obviously
think is more important. That is joke so don't get worked up but he
had two great punt returns in pre-season.
If he shows up and contributes then Rex' abuse worked. He may be
covering his or someone else's butt. I just don't see why he would
keep him around if he didn't see hope that McKnight could help one
day.
Papa as you know better than anyone even at the HS level you get fired
for losing. Don't you think Rex likes his job?
Here is a lesson in football. (It's a joke) Preseason matter, but it's
important WHEN the play took place. What was the situation and who was in
the game at that point. Still, everyone playing is playing to win a spot on
a team. Special teams are always behind in pre-season and in fact, a lot of
the guys who get in on those teams during that time are gone by the start of
the season. So when were the impressive returns? I don't remember or
didn't pay attention. I did see him live when they played Philly, a friend
gave me good tickets to that game. They were awful still at that point
(Reid takes a different approach to preseason) and McKnight was not
impressive at all. I actually was sitting with a bunch of Jets fans and he
was the topic of conversation. That was the game they let Sanchez call from
the sideline, not a bad job of selection. A regular season game when NOTHING
matters should not be used as a guide. Rex does not need ONE player to
win, if that's the case he needs to find another job in a hurry. So....he
is putting together a team and a lot of how he manages things is based on
his swagger and the tone he sets. He picked McKnight, they gave stuff up to
get him, he got rid of Woodhead to keep McKnight...lots of down side
here...not much up side yet...so if I were Rex...I'd sure as Hell be talking
this kid up, he's got to set a bar for him to reach. Still....how often
last season would a total change of pace meant if they had Woodhead...I
don't care what you say....Danny gets the job done, he MAKES plays....Mark
pointed that out and he is dead right about it. McKnight has not made
anything happen. When I saw him live I remember thinking how little he
looked....still.....nobody knows about him, we do know about Woodhead. When
McKnight shows he is a valuable member of the team I'll jump for joy..
yoyodog
I'm simply just saying that he deserves a shot at more playing time
Papa Carl
X-No-Archive: Yes
I quickly found one. It was the 4th quarter so your point could have
merit. I remember another but work calls today. I still think regular
season vs. starters means more than pre-season vs. scrubs which is
what both Woodhead & McKnigt faced.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-york-jets/09000d5d819ee0a7
PC, I don't remember any uproar in here when Woodhead was cut. Maybe
you were one of the few. I do remember a few guys thinking it stupid
that we protected that receiver we subsequently let go. I thought
Chauncey Washington getting cut was a bigger mistake than losing
Woodhead as he played some good special teams.
As for change of pace is Woodhead quicker than LT? I guarantee you he
doesn't pick up the blitz as well. I know you want all three and that
seems to be something Schott can't or won't do. I just am not 100%
sure McKnight was Rex. It could be or it could be Rex being a a good
team guy and saying good things so as not to embarass Tannebaum or it
could be he really believes McKnight is a better player.
I liked Woodhead...and he did not just prove himself this season...he played
before and got a job done before. Fourth quarter is very often
meaningless...and the Bills were in the fourth quarter all season.
MZ
> merit. I remember another but work calls today. I still think regular
> season vs. starters means more than pre-season vs. scrubs which is
> what both Woodhead & McKnigt faced.
>
> http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-york-jets/09000d5d819ee0a7
>
> PC, I don't remember any uproar in here when Woodhead was cut. Maybe
> you were one of the few. I do remember a few guys thinking it stupid
> that we protected that receiver we subsequently let go. I thought
> Chauncey Washington getting cut was a bigger mistake than losing
> Woodhead as he played some good special teams.
>
> As for change of pace is Woodhead quicker than LT? I guarantee you he
> doesn't pick up the blitz as well. I know you want all three and that
> seems to be something Schott can't or won't do. I just am not 100%
> sure McKnight was Rex. It could be or it could be Rex being a a good
> team guy and saying good things so as not to embarass Tannebaum or it
> could be he really believes McKnight is a better player.
Woodhead was quite good at picking up the blitz with New England this
year. That's the first thing they teach them there. The failure to
do so correctly (Sammy Morris) can lead to your franchise QB missing
15 games. I don't know if he's as good as LT at it, but it wasn't a
deficiency in his game.
Michael
> > year. That's the first thing they teach them there. The failure to
> > do so correctly (Sammy Morris) can lead to your franchise QB missing
> > 15 games. I don't know if he's as good as LT at it, but it wasn't a
> > deficiency in his game.
>
> overwhelmed on blocks more than once. btw how long did it take them
> to teach Faulk that trick? 3 - 4 years?
>
> I still maintain that our losing him wasn't as big a deal as the fact
> he found a perfect place in Foxborough. Schott either can't work in 3
> backs, or his backs both Jones & now LT want the ball more. There are
> not many teams that do what they do in NE.
the jets did not lose much when they lost woodhead. woodhead was not
going to be a good ball carrier for them. when he went against a pro
defense in the role of ball carrier, he got stuffed. he looked good
against third stringers as a ball carrier. he also got wrecked a few
times picking up blockers. the jets had exactly just the right idea
converting him to a receiver. the problem is, the jets dont have a qb
that can put a ball under the armpit of a guy running a fast short
timing rout. the patriots do. hence... no loss to the jets, all gain
for woodhead and the pats. if the jets lost anything, they lost the $$
$$ from woodhead jersey sales... not beign funny, either... i bet the
pats sell more woodhead jerseys now than brady jerseys.
Harlan Lachman
<316fea0a-5010-4df3...@x8g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Michael <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote:
> woodhead was not
> going to be a good ball carrier for them.
Michael, I think most Jet fans accept this. However, given the success
DW had in NE, many are beginning to wonder why this is so.
IOW, we agree on the assessment but question if it is just an
observation or imbues deeper significance.
harlan
Michael
> In article
> <316fea0a-5010-4df3-981e-8679207fc...@x8g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > woodhead was not
> > going to be a good ball carrier for them.
>
> Michael, I think most Jet fans accept this. However, given the success
> DW had in NE, many are beginning to wonder why this is so.
>
> IOW, we agree on the assessment but question if it is just an
> observation or imbues deeper significance.
>
> harlan
the deeper signficance is that the jets have a schoolyard qb. hot or
cold. hit or miss. inconsistent from now till the cows come home.
and i'm not upset about it, because the hot spurts come at the most
important times,
MZ
> > year. That's the first thing they teach them there. The failure to
> > do so correctly (Sammy Morris) can lead to your franchise QB missing
> > 15 games. I don't know if he's as good as LT at it, but it wasn't a
> > deficiency in his game.
>
> overwhelmed on blocks more than once. btw how long did it take them
> to teach Faulk that trick? 3 - 4 years?
Took Faulk a while. People forget that during the '01 championship
season he was in Belichick's doghouse after spending '00 attempting to
be a traditional HB (which failed). Probably wasn't until '03 or so
until he became reliable at blitz pickup. When did he come into the
league? '98?
>
> I still maintain that our losing him wasn't as big a deal as the fact
> he found a perfect place in Foxborough. Schott either can't work in 3
> backs, or his backs both Jones & now LT want the ball more. There are
> not many teams that do what they do in NE.
Yet we'll see the Jets enter the season with three backs and have
heard recent promises (maybe empty) to get #3 more carries. :)
I think there are lots of teams who try to do the 3 back thing but for
one reason or another one of the three falls off the map. Even in NE
that became the case by 3/4 through the season, when Taylor and Morris
disappeared. But remember at the start of the season it was Taylor
#1, Faulk #2. By the end of the season, it was BJGE-Woodhead. So
they were down to options 4 and 5 at that point. You need competent
options at #3 because, as they say, stuff happens. The Jets continue
to be blessed by being one of the healthier teams in the league. When
that stops being the case, your face will be red and I'll crow like
Michael.
MZ
On a related note, Woodhead is currently in the running for the cover
of the Madden game. He won't win of course, but he's already made it
to round two of fan voting.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
:-)
I am happy for woodhead and the pats. it is a great story. i hope he
has a good long productive career. i only hope now that the fish get
a real QB and the bills get a real team. i sucks when the jets only
have one real team to face twice a year. i want to see quality in
div rivals.
HVAC
>
>> woodhead was not
>> going to be a good ball carrier for them.
>
> Michael, I think most Jet fans accept this. However, given the success
> DW had in NE, many are beginning to wonder why this is so.
>
> IOW, we agree on the assessment but question if it is just an
> observation or imbues deeper significance.
Not only that, but Woodhead stepped into exactly the role
held by the injured Kevin Faulk. Mostly a 3rd down back who
can catch and run the draw effectively.
--
"OK you cunts, let's see what you can do now" -Hit Girl
Papa Carl
X-No-Archive: Yes
> > > Woodhead was quite good at picking up the blitz with New England this
> > > year. That's the first thing they teach them there. The failure to
> > > do so correctly (Sammy Morris) can lead to your franchise QB missing
> > > 15 games. I don't know if he's as good as LT at it, but it wasn't a
> > > deficiency in his game.
>
> > Mark, he may be a good back for years. I did he see him get
> > overwhelmed on blocks more than once. btw how long did it take them
> > to teach Faulk that trick? 3 - 4 years?
>
> Took Faulk a while. People forget that during the '01 championship
> season he was in Belichick's doghouse after spending '00 attempting to
> be a traditional HB (which failed). Probably wasn't until '03 or so
> until he became reliable at blitz pickup. When did he come into the
> league? '98?
>
>
>
> > I still maintain that our losing him wasn't as big a deal as the fact
> > he found a perfect place in Foxborough. Schott either can't work in 3
> > backs, or his backs both Jones & now LT want the ball more. There are
> > not many teams that do what they do in NE.
>
> Yet we'll see the Jets enter the season with three backs and have
> heard recent promises (maybe empty) to get #3 more carries. :)
Like the Piranha Bros., cruel but fair!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygg2KlicnOQ
What is annoying is that some of our games could be blow outs & the
RB's should get their reps in there. It never happens.
>
> I think there are lots of teams who try to do the 3 back thing but for
> one reason or another one of the three falls off the map. Even in NE
> that became the case by 3/4 through the season, when Taylor and Morris
> disappeared. But remember at the start of the season it was Taylor
> #1, Faulk #2. By the end of the season, it was BJGE-Woodhead. So
> they were down to options 4 and 5 at that point. You need competent
> options at #3 because, as they say, stuff happens. The Jets continue
> to be blessed by being one of the healthier teams in the league. When
> that stops being the case, your face will be red and I'll crow like
> Michael.
Listen I agree we need three (four?) as things do happen. I am hoping
that McKnight is the guy at three.
The use of a RB with 3rd & long spot is something that the Pats do
well. I remember Faulk killing us in the play off game in Manginis
first year. Is it Brady, BB, or a combination?
Using a running back smartly????? It couldn't be the play design or the OC?
Me thinks it is.
Papa Carl
X-No-Archive: Yes
> Listen I agree we need three (four?) as things do happen. I am hoping
> that McKnight is the guy at three.
>
> The use of a RB with 3rd & long spot is something that the Pats do
> well. I remember Faulk killing us in the play off game in Manginis
> first year. Is it Brady, BB, or a combination?
>
> Using a running back smartly????? It couldn't be the play design or the
> OC?
> Me thinks it is.
That you think that is shocking!
:)
You may be right but my football watching is largely Jets, Texans, &
Pats. Brady does it much better than the other two. Schaub & Kubiak
are no stiffs & they have one of the best RB's in the league. They
probably do it better than us but aren't close to the Pats. It could
be coaching but it could be a young QB. It could be a short QB who
regularly has passes behind the LOS knocked down but your opinion
could be valid.
I'd have to give you the threat of the QB keeps things more honest...but the
design of the play is absolutely critical and that is where The Jets O fails
miserably...if I can start to predict plays successfully from my chair in
the den...then imagine what the opposing D is doing.
Papa Carl
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>> miserably...if I can start to predict plays successfully from my chair in
>> the den...then imagine what the opposing D is doing.
>
My son is much better at it than I am....a lot of people think they are very
predictable and all the movement doesn't do a thing to cover it...I really
think that was the intention of the movement this past season...who
knows....these guys make so freakin much money they should do everything
right.
Grinch
> the jets did not lose much when they lost woodhead. woodhead was not
> going to be a good ball carrier for them. when he went against a pro
> defense in the role of ball carrier, he got stuffed. he looked good
> against third stringers as a ball carrier. he also got wrecked a few
> times picking up blockers. the jets had exactly just the right idea
> converting him to a receiver. the problem is, the jets dont have a qb
> that can put a ball under the armpit of a guy running a fast short
> timing rout. the patriots do. hence... no loss to the jets, all gain
> for woodhead and the pats. if the jets lost anything, they lost the $$
> $$ from woodhead jersey sales... not beign funny, either... i bet the
> pats sell more woodhead jerseys now than brady jerseys.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Man, ewww, those grapes are really sour.
Grinch
> Ryan also said McKnight will get more work at running back.
>
Talk about setting a low hurdle -- could he possibly get less?
Grinch
>
> When Rex Ryan speaks, we listen.
Why, when he has every reason to lie about everything?
>
> • He downplayed the notion that the Jets need to draft a pass rusher.
"I want to remind every team located near us in the draft of our
obvious and partiucular need to draft a pass rusher..."
>
> Ryan also said McKnight will get more work at running back.
"Look, the only time we let McKnight play last year was with our third-
stringers against Buffalo's third-stringers in a game that didn't mean
anything to either team. Doesn't that tell you what we think of him?
As I said late during last season, we'd have cut him and kept Woodhead
if we hadn't sunk money into his contract while cutting Danny was
free.
"McNight's going to be reading this, right?"
> Rex was going to turn Ghoston into an all-pro too.
He had every confidence that Gholston was going to be a real
contributor, so he said this time last year. Do you think he believed
it?
Grinch
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > My experience was that whenever a HC started touting some guy that had not
> > yet shown anything it was usually to create some smoke and always to
> > protect
> > the perception of their judgment for working with that player. I'll
> > believe
>
> gholston did not do a single thing even in a preseaon game. how many
> yards did mcknight run for in the buff game ??? mcknight is not
> gholston. i agree though, i will believe it when mcnight produces
> when it means somthing
> ----
> That Buffalo game was not even a preseason game. In preseason guys are
> trying to win a spot on a team....in that game it as all over and nobody
> gave a crap. You can see stuff like that on any Friday night, when the
> scrubs get to play in a high school game because the opponent is so bad.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gholston is the biggest bust in Jets franchise history, period.
Blair Thomas was a "disappointment" bust, but he had 1,400 yards in
his first two seasons, averaged 4.5 a carry for the Jets, and averaged
5.0 a carry his first season.
Lam Jones was another disappointment bust, but was good enough to be a
regular player for five years averaging 17 a catch.
Gholston did *nothing*.
The only objectively comparable Jets bust in 50 years was John Huarte,
the Heisman Trophy QB the Jets signed the same year they sigend Namath
for almost as much money as Joe got, who did absolutely nothing for
the Jets and virtually nothing in the NFL after the Jets said goodbye
to him. But since the Jets were counting on Namath as their first
option anyhow, nobody's ever really cared.
So Gholston is #1 at something in Jets franchise history.
McKnight sure is a potential total bust on the basis of what he's
shown so far -- but "4th round bust" is hardly the same thing.
Grinch
>
> McKnight may or may not have been Rex. Like Gholston, it may be a case
> of circling the company wagons.
> They guy was an embarrassment from the start...throwing up at a rookie
> camp????? They invested a lot in this guy....he was the butt of jokes in
> camp. They can't just not try to the utmost to salvage this
> investment...and all I'm saying is I'm not believing one word of that stuff
> Rex spoons out...I'll believe he is a real deal player when he shows
> it...and I do not think one game against possibly the worst team in the
> League shows it. If some do...good for them, we think differently.
Remember, they traded up to get him.