Tanny should not be allowed to escape
Michael
their other roster decisions, I think it is high time to add Tanny on
the marquee along with Schotty. It is obvious that Tanny is nothing
more than an accountant. He is not qualified to evaluate talent or
build a quality roster. He is absoluely in the dark as far as the
conecept of "depth"
How he as escaped the hot seat up until this point is hard to
believe... Him and his pal Schotty need walking papers.
Johnny Morongo
But get your wet gear on. John C is teeing up a load for you right
about now.
Michael
John C TX
Troublemaker!
:)
I think you have me confused with your man b. I like some of what he
did but really never jumped up & down about him.
Things I Like:
-Rex
-manage the cap
Ultimately draft picks fall on him & the jury is still out.
2006 - great draft Ferguson, Mangold & also guys who contributed
Washington (McKnight) , Coleman & Smith
2007- two stars in Harris & Revis (traded away quite afew [picks
though)
2008 - bad one as we got Gholston & Keller & a whole lot of nothing
2009- Sanchez, Greene, Slasusson, & Westerman not bad
2010- Wilson, Ducasse Mcknight,Holmes & rented Edwards for two years
jury is out but holding out hope on Wilson...not bad
2011-- Kerley & Wilkerson show hope..maybe McElroy
Overall OK & next year we should be picking in every round, well as of
now.
I don't think he pretends to do more than manage the draft. I think he
has Bradway where he belongs as he was OK drafting awful in signing
the wrong FA. We have done OK there: Faneca, Pace & Scott were the
big ones & productive for us.
You can argue we needed more depth but we have always need that and
now at least we have pretty good starters. Think of the corpses
Mangini swore by when they were trying to do a BB/Piloi? Who could
have foreseen a 4th string center playing this year?
MZ
You're more forgiving than I expected. It's still early, but 2010
looks about as bad as you can get, and 2009 isn't looking so hot
either considering what it took to land those players.
Free agency has been extremely good for him. The draft... he's been
weak since '08. '06 and '07 probably give him a free pass though.
Overall, I think it's a pretty good track record, but he's adopted the
Colts model to some degree. There are inherent risks to it (as we're
seeing now in both teams), but it's a valid approach. So, I don't
think there's a competence issue here.
Johnny Morongo
>
> You're more forgiving than I expected. It's still early, but 2010
> looks about as bad as you can get, and 2009 isn't looking so hot
> either considering what it took to land those players.
>
> Free agency has been extremely good for him. The draft... he's been
> weak since '08. '06 and '07 probably give him a free pass though.
>
> Overall, I think it's a pretty good track record, but he's adopted the
> Colts model to some degree. There are inherent risks to it (as we're
> seeing now in both teams), but it's a valid approach. So, I don't
> think there's a competence issue here.
What, pray tell, is "the Colts model?"
MZ
Building a solid starting lineup at the expense of depth and future.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
how would that include ducasse, gholston and wilson ??? building a
solid starting lineup by drafting guys who cant play ??? the schools
that ducasse and wilson went to probably had them excluded them from
the draft boards of competent programs. as for gholston, as rex
himself said, smarter guys knew to stay away
John C TX
I have hope, mind you I wrote hope not confidence, that Wilson may
work out but I think obtaining Holmes & Edwards was good use of a 4th
& 5th. When was teh last time that the Pas WR draft choice worked
out? Deion? That along with McKnight, who I like, makes it an OK
draft in spite of Ducasse. We really only gave up a 2nd for Sanchez
although that Freeman subsequently was taken with that pick makes it
tough to take. The players were stiffs. Greene vs. drafting a late
3rd, 4th & 7th seems to have worked out but I see what you are getting
at.
MZ
I don't buy that argument when Mike Reiss says that the Pats had one
of the best drafts in the league in '07 (an abysmal draft...) because
that's how they got Welker and Moss. That doesn't tell us anything
about the team's actual ability to draft. It just tells us that
instead of giving up cap bux for a free agent, they gave up a draft
pick. Just a different form of value.
I think it speaks to Tanny's ability to bring in quality free agents
(ie established talent), moreso than his/their ability to scout
college level players. That's a pretty big distinction, because I
think Tanny has been one of the better GMs in the league as far as the
established talent thing goes... but I think he's done a pretty
questionable job in the draft; he's hit the jackpot with some guys
early (Revis, Harris), but never seems to get much out of the mid and
late rounds (and even UDFAs). That's where the depth issues today
come in.
MZ
I'm talking about strategy, not success rate. One of those guys is
actually a good example of said strategy.
Papa Carl
"MZ" <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:5d20f90b-3c79-4c22...@ff5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Mark...EXPERT analysis...dead on I think.
graybeard
wrote:
Michael, the Lions were a doormat for years and only a couple of seasons
ago set an NFL record for futility with an 0-16 record. Now they are one
of the most exciting and fun to watch teams in the league. Along the way
they fired their GM. There is a lesson to be learned there if the Jets
are paying attention.
--
graybeard
graybeard
wrote:
>but I think he's done a pretty
>questionable job in the draft; he's hit the jackpot with some guys
>early (Revis, Harris), but never seems to get much out of the mid and
>late rounds (and even UDFAs). That's where the depth issues today
>come in.
But those jackpot guys were no-brainers who were rated very highly by
all the pre-draft analysis publications. I could have drafted those
players and been successful. The lack of success in later rounds and
with UDFA's speaks to bad scouting and/or poor ability to evaluate
talent.
--
graybeard
MZ
I wouldn't call them no-brainers. After all, nearly 32 teams passed
on Harris the first way through. Revis was a guy that if people knew
how good he'd be, every team would have traded up to get him. But the
Jets actually did. So, even though there was probably lots of
interest for those players, Tannenbaum prioritized it more.
Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. Maybe he just values early
round picks more than most other teams, and so trading up to get them
was par for the course, and doesn't necessarily say anything about his
predictive abilities re: personnel.
Anyway, you're right, there are issues with the later rounds, and
maybe they're organizational. The scouting dept might just not be
getting it done. This is still ultimately on Tannenbaum to some
extent, because he puts together this group. But it seems to me that
to fix this issue requires more than just replacing Tannenbaum.
John C TX
He has rolled the dice in targeting some players by trading up & it
has largely worked. There have been some bad picks but even great
drafting teams like the Pats & Steelers have their Ducasse's & worse
their Gholstons. I think evaluating a draft by just the talent
evaluation portion & ignoring the value you get from trades is a bit
unfair to a GM. Remember I am not sure how good a GM he is if he
can't sustain the Jets.
They were obviously worse than we realized he really inherited a pile
of crap.
> I think it speaks to Tanny's ability to bring in quality free agents
> (ie established talent), moreso than his/their ability to scout
> college level players. That's a pretty big distinction, because I
> think Tanny has been one of the better GMs in the league as far as the
> established talent thing goes... but I think he's done a pretty
> questionable job in the draft; he's hit the jackpot with some guys
> early (Revis, Harris), but never seems to get much out of the mid and
> late rounds (and even UDFAs). That's where the depth issues today
> come in.
The free agents is very big. How many one year guys like Donnie
Abraham did Bradway bring in. We miss out on Winfield & he signed
David Barrett. We miss out Lynch & get Reggie Tongue. I was not fan of
his GM abilities but his drafting was OK not good so Tutor here it is
I am with you he sucked as a GM.
:)
So he & Rex are a good team. They target the right player & get them
to want to be a Jet.
graybeard
wrote:
Sure, you would have to give a new GM the authority to clean house and
put together his own scouting staff.
--
graybeard
John C TX
I think the later round problem is that he hasn't had enough.
oldn...@mindspring.com
During Tanny's reign the Jets have had the fewest picks in the league and the highest average draft position -- nobody else is even close. That's the result of all the trading picks to move up.
The evident strategy is get fewer better players and let the breadth and depth take care of themselves.
It's also gambling, with a good bit of "we're better at evaluating talent than anybody else", because if they mess up with their fewer higher picks they are totally screwed. Their record with their highest picks is mixed -- Revis, great; Brick, reasonable; Sanchez for a #5 pick, meh, so far not so great but he's been getting better this year; Gholston, total bust; the last 2, to-be-determined.
Belichick's philosophy has been the opposite extreme, the most picks in the league over the last five years, by far, with much lower average draft position.
oldn...@mindspring.com
> On Oct 14, 10:11 am, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:45:29 -0700 (PDT), MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >but I think he's done a pretty
> > >questionable job in the draft; he's hit the jackpot with some guys
> > >early (Revis, Harris), but never seems to get much out of the mid and
> > >late rounds (and even UDFAs). That's where the depth issues today
> > >come in.
> >
> > But those jackpot guys were no-brainers who were rated very highly by
> > all the pre-draft analysis publications. I could have drafted those
> > players and been successful. The lack of success in later rounds and
> > with UDFA's speaks to bad scouting and/or poor ability to evaluate
> > talent.
> > --
> > graybeard
>
> I wouldn't call them no-brainers. After all, nearly 32 teams passed
> on Harris the first way through.
Three years later everyone looks back at how the moron GM screwed up by passing on so many great players.
Going forward it is, as Tuna said, a crapshoot. There isn't a GM anywhere who doesn't miss a whole lot of players who prove superior after-the-fact.
Then all the newpaper writers and other pundits who toast them for it conveniently forget their own mock draft picks of three years back, just as if they really knew better.
Señor Patriots
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 10:56:09 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net>
farm, and I think he was a decent HC. That organization needed to be
purged from the top down. But they also needed to find the right HC
again, and then make good picks. They did both but that doesn't
guarantee that they'll get it right every year. I don't see it
playing out like that for any team. Look at all the good picks Indy
made over the years but now they're stuck with obviously no good QB
picks during that entire time.
Harlan Lachman
<6babfa35-dfb0-4d9e...@m5g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
for the most part but his apparent inability to grasp key team failings
in spite of their repeatedly being in his face.
Some of us have seen for years that Shott is horrific. Apparently the
myriad number of games our offense does not show up has not caused Tanny
to deal with the Jets' number one problem.
Many of us realized that Braylon was a better WR than Santonio and the
WR with whom Sanchez had the best rapport. Tanny did not agree and let
him go. The problem was not paying for Braylon when we had the money.
The problem was Tanny's willingness to gamble that Plax and Mason could
possibly be replacements for a young QB. IOW, taking away the WR with
whom he had the best connection and adding old and slow guys.
Some of us have seen for years that Eric Smith is horrific. Yet, there
has been no upgrade at Safety to move him to the bench and just on
specials.
Along the same lines, with Woody's injury last year, Tanny got fooled
into thinking Wayne Hunter was more than a temporary solution and Turner
the only needed back-up. I don't mind whiffing on Ducasse. I mind not
dealing with our OL and losing two games because of that error.
We can see why Tanny went after Nnamdi instead of Cro. We got played but
did not overpay but the problem is that we went back to Cro.
Making a mistake in the draft happens. Not seeing and not dealing with
weakness has killed this team's chances to win a Lombardi in spite of
having some good talent and the best D player in the game.
h
Harlan Lachman
<fd6b90f6-af21-4007...@p35g2000prp.googlegroups.com>,
> X-No-Archive: Yes
Yes it is. I don't blame Shott for being horrific. I don't think he is
not trying his best. I blame Tanny and Rex for not dealing with the
> >
> > Many of us realized that Braylon was a better WR than Santonio and the
> > WR with whom Sanchez had the best rapport. Tanny did not agree and let
> > him go. The problem was not paying for Braylon when we had the money.
> > The problem was Tanny's willingness to gamble that Plax and Mason could
> > possibly be replacements for a young QB. IOW, taking away the WR with
> > whom he had the best connection and adding old and slow guys.
>
> last year he didn't have the dropsies but his numbers were = Homes &
> he played 4 more games. Holmes has been a more consistent WR than
> Edwards.
>
> Edwards is also an idiot & one idiot move away from being suspended.
> Maybe Holmes was a better team guy & less of an idiot.
Perhaps. But publicly throwing teammates under the bus is a unique way
to show it.
> > Some of us have seen for years that Eric Smith is horrific. Yet, there
> > has been no upgrade at Safety to move him to the bench and just on
> > specials.
>
> Jet cut playing a lot. The Ravens picked up Pollard who the Texans
> let go.
>
> I am taking claim to the first guy who said Smith stinks.
Then you be prescient. Again, Smith tries hard. He may even be getting
not worse. But Tanny and Rex are responsible for the fact he is still
here and getting PT as a position player.
> > Along the same lines, with Woody's injury last year, Tanny got fooled
> > into thinking Wayne Hunter was more than a temporary solution and Turner
> > the only needed back-up. I don't mind whiffing on Ducasse. I mind not
> > dealing with our OL and losing two games because of that error.
>
> > We can see why Tanny went after Nnamdi instead of Cro. We got played but
> > did not overpay but the problem is that we went back to Cro.
>
> > Making a mistake in the draft happens. Not seeing and not dealing with
> > weakness has killed this team's chances to win a Lombardi in spite of
> > having some good talent and the best D player in the game.
>
I don't blame Callahan. He has done the best with what he gots. The fact
that Hunter has not gotten Sanchez killed so far is a testament to
something.
h
Tutor
> In article
> <fd6b90f6-af21-4007-acc9-6abb56140...@p35g2000prp.googlegroups.com>,
centered douche. I nearly fell out of my chair when he was made a
captain. Made no sense. Wrong personality type. Dumb move.
Somebody should tell Santonio.. to just shut up and catch the ball get
us 1st downs and score. Put this captain idea to rest. It's not you.