repost from an old friend
Tutor
always highly valued. I can't disagree with anything he writes. This
about says it all:
"I thought I would be angrier than this.
But I’m not. I fully expected something like this, though not this
bad. I was telling friends the Jets would lose 31-14 or 34-17, in that
range. I knew the Patriots would put up 30 and I knew, especially
after hearing all week about how “statistically bad” the Patriots D
was, that the Jets would struggle to put up 20. And no, I’m not
claiming to be some sort of football Nostradamus, but I can tell you a
couple of things:
1. The Jets, if they make the playoffs - that’s right, “if” they
manage to hold off San Diego and get in at 11-5 or 10-6, because they
are not beating Pittsburgh or Chicago, and could easily lose to Miami
or Buffalo at home – will either meekly shut out the lights at Kansas
City or San Diego or Jacksonville or Indy, or will tease us with a bad-
lookiong win against one of these mediocre teams, before being
annihilated in Pittsburgh or New England.
2. This team will NEVER win a championship under the current
management structure. And, more importantly, it will NEVER win a
championship under Rex Ryan.
Look at it from the top. Everything Woody Johnson does in setting the
tone for this franchise is bottom-line based. It’s about making a big
splash, getting in the papers, in the national conversation, and
ultimately selling tickets. Nothing wrong with that – it is a
business, after all. But going after Brett Favre, chasing the Namath
echo in Mark Sanchez, appearing on “Hard Knocks” etc., seem to be
geared more toward hype than on-field performance. It’s OK to sell
tickets and make money, but if the performance seems secondary to the
selling, then it’s trouble.
Following that strategy, Tannenbaum’s moves as a GM make sense. It is
absolutely a short-range plan, with the Jets filling holes with near-
done veterans and putting all their draft eggs in a small basket.
People rag on hmhertz for wanting to collect draft picks, but when
your strategy is to pick just four guys a year, if you miss on half of
them, you are cutting way down your chances for success, and
absolutely mortgaging the future. New England went through a dry spell
for a bit but never wavered from the strategy, and now it is paying
off with a ton of good young players (like half of whom I spent
watching as Florida Gators) plus a ton of draft picks in the future.
Because of the Jets short-term strategy, if they don’t catch the
Patriots now – and they didn’t – they will never catch them.
The Woodhead decision is a perfect example of this. If Woodhead was a
guy who would be riding the pine for the Jets, but who is an intergral
part of the best offense in football, what does that say about either
(1) the GM and coaching staff's evaluative skills or (2) the overall
organizational strategy? Nothing good about either. Denial of
Woodhead’s abilities just sounds silly now – is there anyone who would
like to trade Woodhead’s future production for Tomlinson’s coming 3.2
ypc now?
And it’s most definitely the coaching as well. I posted a couple of
weeks ago that I feel like the Jets will be the Oilers to New
England’s Steelers – good but never good enough. I like Rex Ryan, but
he is not going to get the Jets over the hump. Period. The ownership/
management goals work against him, but there is the on the field stuff
and last night exemplified it:
The team, as always after a layoff, was woefully unprepared. Bad time
outs, delay of games, etc but the thing that is really stunning is
this is a guy who is supposed to be a defensive genius, and yet the
Patriots did nothing innovative or unexpected on offense and the Jets
had no answers whatsoever. It’s clearly a paper tiger, and when you
aren’t playing against bad QBs like Carson Palmer, from whom you can
depend on a bunch of bad decisions, the defense looks like the
undermanned, large-talking, ill-prepared unit that it is.
And we don’t need to speak about Ryan’s long trend of ineptitude with
the challenge flag – he makes Herm look like Patek Philippe with his
clock issues. Add to that flat out stupid decisions – ask a shaky
kicker to try a 58-yarder in a windy, and the kind of loud-mouthed
bluster that gets referees’ flag pulling fingers itchy, and you have a
coach who can get you close but never all the way. I guess the one
positive from last night was that the Jets weren’t called for their
usual stupid drive-extending late hit or unnecessary roughness
penalties. Then again, the Patriots didn’t need any help extending
their drives.
Anyway, let’s spending the week criticizing Folk, or Sanchez, or
Schottenheimer, or the OL allowing sacks from a three-man rush or
Curtis Martin, or whatever you like, but the disease is running
through the entire organization. Our near-term future is littered with
hopes of near-wildcard berths and early playoff flameouts on hostile
turf, and the grim specter of watching New England or Pittsburgh or
Baltimore – better teams, with better coaching and management
strategies, advance."
Ray O'Hara
"Tutor" <dcat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1eb7c49f-b759-451b...@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
From a former contributor to this group, one whose opinion I have
always highly valued. I can't disagree with anything he writes. This
about says it all:
=======================================================================
you guys are worse than pre-04 Sox fans.
Michael
<SNIP>
Sheesh... Some times Jets fans remind me of Notre Dame fans. I am a
ND fan as well as Jets fan. Both Jets and ND fans are exactly the
same in the fact that they over rate the team when they are winning
and write them off as a disaster after a loss. For me, the superbowl
is not the be all and end all of the football experience. The key is
"entertainment". The Jets are not perfect but they are fun. Even a
loss is fun in some ways because Rex can be off-the-wall with his post
game remarks. The Jets ownership and management has made the Jets fun
and exciting. I have fun at the games win or lose. If the Jets lose
it is because they blew it on the field. The fans do not have to
chalk up a personal failure. I dont get it with some sports fans.
Just have fun with it a few hours a week. It is a game and it is
entertainment. Even when they get punched in the gut like last night
it has entertainment value...
papa.carl44
"Tutor" <dcat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1eb7c49f-b759-451b...@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
____________________________________________________________
I pretty much agree with all of this. And I think I've indicated my dislike
for the way Woody does things in the past...I'm on record for that one. The
thing is, that management stuff is a given...so us fans, who stay fans, can
only moan about the stuff we see in the games. They do well enough to give
us a few wins and we develop expectations only to be dashed with the SOJ
stuff again. I agree, there is something systemic about the organization
and I think it goes back to Woody's decision to bring in Herm when he first
got the team. He had tremendous people available to him who actually wanted
the job but he went a totally different way and I think the above post
indicates a lot of the reasons for that. It is not easy being a fan, and it
is never easy being a Jets' fan. OMHO, Papa Carl
Grinch
> always highly valued. Â I can't disagree with anything he writes. Â This
> about says it all:
>
> "I thought I would be angrier than this.
>
> But I’m not. I fully expected something like this, though not this
> bad. I was telling friends the Jets would lose 31-14 or 34-17, in that
> range. I knew the Patriots would put up 30 and I knew, especially
> after hearing all week about how “statistically bad” the Patriots D
> was, that the Jets would struggle to put up 20. And no, I’m not
> claiming to be some sort of football Nostradamus, but I can tell you a
> couple of things:
>
> 1. The Jets, if they make the playoffs - that’s right, “if” they
> manage to hold off San Diego and get in at 11-5 or 10-6, because they
> are not beating Pittsburgh or Chicago, and could easily lose to Miami
> or Buffalo at home – will either meekly shut out the lights at Kansas
> City or San Diego or Jacksonville or Indy, or will tease us with a bad-
> lookiong win against one of these mediocre teams, before being
> annihilated in Pittsburgh or New England.
>
> 2. This team will NEVER win a championship under the current
> management structure. And, more importantly, it will NEVER win a
> championship under Rex Ryan.
The honeymoon is ending for Rex, eh?
The first serious "It's Rex's fault!" sighting.
Well, that's what a mere 20-11 record with just one trip to the
conference championship game in 1.75 seasons gets you!
papa.carl44
"Grinch" <oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:140e53c3-0f7b-48d5...@f21g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
________________________________________________________________
Grinch, You really don't understand it do you? He says he is going to the
SB...he says it is a "win now" situation. Rex put himself in this position
and what happened last night was what some of us who do more than look at
statistics have been saying would happen when they got into the tough games.
And it is not the first "Rex's fault" sighting...you don't read, or only
read what you want and interpret it how you want, a number of us have said
we are not convinced he has a good plan in hand. You of course, are
entitled to your opinion...I have a much different one and it is based on
observation and not just some statistics. By the way, most of the football
folks, those who have played in the NFL don't put much stock in all those
statistics.
______________________________________________________________
JetsLife
After only reading the first paragraph or so it's clear this guy is a
complete blowhard idiot.
Any fool could've seen this blowout coming: the Pats offense is
humming, and there is someone known as Brady leading that charge.
No Brady, no dominant Patriots.
Your friend is a ninkampoop. Brady is in my opinion the best QB ever.
To beat him when his offense is humming around him is very very
difficult.
The Jets like most NFL teams are flawed. Losing Leonhard I think is
devastating to our pass defense.
We'll find out if your idiotic friend is right from here on in and in
the going years. Generally you go as far as your QB: NE, Indy, Pitts &
even Balt. have better QBs at this moment. We'll see how Sanchez and
the Jets play from here.
JetsLife
Again your friend is an utter boob. No Tom Brady = no 45-3 last night
or the historical Pats success* under Belichick (and regarding last
night. this isn't to mention young Sanchez's atrocious INTs, no
Leonhard, etc).
Last anyone with a brain checked, when you have a HOF QB like Brady
leading your team - perhaps the best ever - you tend to succeed. Also
see: Manning, Montana, et al and currently perhaps that will include R-
berger and Brees some day.
Your friend is a total idiot who is stupidly jumping to sweeping
conclusions on hindsight cherry-picking, and innuendo. The results
show the Jets have managed quite well, thank you, since Rex took over.
Are they as constituted good enough to win it all? We shall see. But
your friend would be well served to understand the level of
competition led by top-flight QB play the Jets have to contend with in
NE, Indy, Pitts, etc. It ain't easy to beat said foes. When one does,
as the Jets have in the past, it is a feat. I have no doubt they'll do
it again very soon.
*While cheating?
JetsLife
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Grincher Grincher Grincher!
You are a king of turnabout, my friend. And when I agree with you ...
go Grincher!
papa.carl44
"JetsLife" <Jets...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7ff79144-6ddf-474c...@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Any fool could have seen it coming?????? So does this make you the "coward"
you are always shouting about?
papa.carl44
*While cheating?
But anybody who does not see the Jets are top on their way is a coward...and
anti-American or something.
Copp
Tutor <dcat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> 2. This team will NEVER win a championship under the current
> management structure. And, more importantly, it will NEVER win a
You guys are too much. I like seeing the Jets get stomped as
much as anyone, but the Pats went into Cleveland, made some
mistakes and it was 10-0, then it just steamrolled and they
lost big. Belichick should have resigned!
This is just one game. The loss itself is big because of the
potential playoff implications, but you really need to see
how your team does against Pitt and Chicago before you blow
up the team. Do you think Chicago or GB can beat the Pats?
Harlan Lachman
<1eb7c49f-b759-451b...@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
Tutor <dcat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From a former contributor to this group, one whose opinion I have
> always highly valued. I can't disagree with anything he writes. This
> about says it all:
>
> "I thought I would be angrier than this.
Sorry about the late reply David. I was too angry about this post to
respond in a timely fashion. I had work to do.
>
> But IÄ…m not. I fully expected something like this, though not this
> bad. I was telling friends the Jets would lose 31-14 or 34-17, in that
> range. I knew the Patriots would put up 30 and I knew, especially
> after hearing all week about how Ĺ‚statistically badË› the Patriots D
> was, that the Jets would struggle to put up 20. And no, IÄ…m not
> claiming to be some sort of football Nostradamus, but I can tell you a
> couple of things:
>
> 1. The Jets, if they make the playoffs - thatÄ…s right, Ĺ‚ifË› they
> manage to hold off San Diego and get in at 11-5 or 10-6, because they
> are not beating Pittsburgh or Chicago, and could easily lose to Miami
> or Buffalo at home  will either meekly shut out the lights at Kansas
> City or San Diego or Jacksonville or Indy, or will tease us with a bad-
> lookiong win against one of these mediocre teams, before being
> annihilated in Pittsburgh or New England.
>
> 2. This team will NEVER win a championship under the current
> management structure. And, more importantly, it will NEVER win a
> championship under Rex Ryan.
That is a pretty easy statement to make. In the last twenty one years,
16 head coaches out of 123 (13%) in the league won a super bowl. [BTW,
in the last 21 years, only 14 teams were winners). Going through the
list of head coaches revealed some pretty decent choices, some who came
pretty close, in some cases a yard or two, to getting their name on the
list of winners -- but who did not.
IOW, this long time sufferer has an 87% of getting it right just by
throwing darts. Very daring call. I will be more impressed if he
identifies the next 16 winning HC.
>
> Look at it from the top. Everything Woody Johnson does in setting the
> tone for this franchise is bottom-line based. ItÄ…s about making a big
> splash, getting in the papers, in the national conversation, and
> ultimately selling tickets. Nothing wrong with that  it is a
> business, after all. But going after Brett Favre, chasing the Namath
> echo in Mark Sanchez, appearing on Ĺ‚Hard KnocksË› etc., seem to be
> geared more toward hype than on-field performance. ItÄ…s OK to sell
> tickets and make money, but if the performance seems secondary to the
> selling, then itÄ…s trouble.
This is where the analysis completely fails. While I hated the Brett
Favre move and thought it counter productive, many folks had rated
Sanchez a top Qb. Most folks with would think Holmes worth a 5th round
pick and that LT is at least worth one TJ at a huge discount. The draft
picks have been good, at least compare to the SB winning Patriots in the
same time frame. Some trades like Cromartie really need more time to
evaluate but I think we have a much better team than we did and it has
been upgraded by both draft picks, UDFA, and trades.
Most folks would admit the Jets talent is better than most teams in the
league, if not good enough to win it all. Tannenbaum replaced Bradway
in 2006 after Bradway and Herm had gutted the team. The talent level is
substantially better than it was.
>
> Following that strategy, TannenbaumÄ…s moves as a GM make sense. It is
> absolutely a short-range plan, with the Jets filling holes with near-
> done veterans and putting all their draft eggs in a small basket.
> People rag on hmhertz for wanting to collect draft picks, but when
> your strategy is to pick just four guys a year, if you miss on half of
> them, you are cutting way down your chances for success, and
> absolutely mortgaging the future. New England went through a dry spell
> for a bit but never wavered from the strategy, and now it is paying
> off with a ton of good young players (like half of whom I spent
> watching as Florida Gators) plus a ton of draft picks in the future.
> Because of the Jets short-term strategy, if they donÄ…t catch the
> Patriots now  and they didnąt  they will never catch them.
If Brady gets a career ending injury, after next year's draft, unless
the Pats trade up to get Luck, so much for this fear. Does the author
believe the Jets or someone else won't beat a Brady less Pats.
Brady has been the difference for this team much as Big Ben and Polamalu
have been for the Steelers, Peyton and Sanders have been for the Colts.
If I cared about the NFC at all, I might be able to cite more examples
have just a couple of key players have dominated their division when
healthy making life miserable for fans of other teams in their divisions.
I bet Bellichek would trade Brady's continued good health for all those
picks.
>
> The Woodhead decision is a perfect example of this. If Woodhead was a
> guy who would be riding the pine for the Jets, but who is an intergral
> part of the best offense in football, what does that say about either
> (1) the GM and coaching staff's evaluative skills or (2) the overall
> organizational strategy? Nothing good about either. Denial of
> Woodheadąs abilities just sounds silly now  is there anyone who would
> like to trade WoodheadÄ…s future production for TomlinsonÄ…s coming 3.2
> ypc now?
First of all, the fan suffers memory lapse. We lost Woodhead for
Clowney. Now that was stupid. One could even argue we lost Woodhead for
McKnight, that the Jets refused to give up on McNothing and decided to
risk losing Woodhead rather than McNothing. Was Bellichek brilliant or
desperate and lucky like he was thanks to Mo Lewis. Faulk got hurt or
Woodhead would not be playing. Also, someone would need an accurate
watch to know if Bellichek knew Woodhead was available when he let
Maroney go or if Rex knew Maroney had been traded when he gambled on
trying to hide Woodhead for a week. Bad Joss.
>
> And itÄ…s most definitely the coaching as well. I posted a couple of
> weeks ago that I feel like the Jets will be the Oilers to New
> Englandąs Steelers  good but never good enough. I like Rex Ryan, but
> he is not going to get the Jets over the hump. Period. The ownership/
> management goals work against him, but there is the on the field stuff
> and last night exemplified it:
There are a lot of teams that will never get over the hump if there are
only 16 winning coaches and 14 winning teams in more than two decades.
>
> The team, as always after a layoff, was woefully unprepared. Bad time
> outs, delay of games, etc but the thing that is really stunning is
> this is a guy who is supposed to be a defensive genius, and yet the
> Patriots did nothing innovative or unexpected on offense and the Jets
> had no answers whatsoever. ItÄ…s clearly a paper tiger, and when you
> arenÄ…t playing against bad QBs like Carson Palmer, from whom you can
> depend on a bunch of bad decisions, the defense looks like the
> undermanned, large-talking, ill-prepared unit that it is.
>
> And we donÄ…t need to speak about RyanÄ…s long trend of ineptitude with
> the challenge flag  he makes Herm look like Patek Philippe with his
> clock issues. Add to that flat out stupid decisions  ask a shaky
> kicker to try a 58-yarder in a windy, and the kind of loud-mouthed
> bluster that gets refereesÄ… flag pulling fingers itchy, and you have a
> coach who can get you close but never all the way. I guess the one
> positive from last night was that the Jets werenÄ…t called for their
> usual stupid drive-extending late hit or unnecessary roughness
> penalties. Then again, the Patriots didnÄ…t need any help extending
> their drives.
>
> Anyway, letÄ…s spending the week criticizing Folk, or Sanchez, or
> Schottenheimer, or the OL allowing sacks from a three-man rush or
> Curtis Martin, or whatever you like, but the disease is running
> through the entire organization. Our near-term future is littered with
> hopes of near-wildcard berths and early playoff flameouts on hostile
> turf, and the grim specter of watching New England or Pittsburgh or
> Baltimore  better teams, with better coaching and management
> strategies, advance."
The last two paragraphs seem like fairer criticism to me. The question
is whether Rex learns from his stupidity (and the signs are not great
about that) or gets lucky and loses Shott and gets a powerful OC to
replace him who gets the most out of the available talent.
But, while for some of us it has been 40+ years of suffering and time is
running out on our every being able to celebrate with the rest of you,
the Jets roster is better and Rex is better than any recent coach except
Parcells.
harlan
Harlan Lachman
<140e53c3-0f7b-48d5...@f21g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
Grinch <oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> The honeymoon is ending for Rex, eh?
>
> The first serious "It's Rex's fault!" sighting.
>
> Well, that's what a mere 20-11 record with just one trip to the
> conference championship game in 1.75 seasons gets you!
Grinch, and how many Jets' head coaches have winning records? Out of how
many coaches?
[Hint it is only 2 of 17 and not many would guess the two correctly.
And, as of today, guess which HC has the best regular season winning
percentage?]
harlan
papa.carl44
"Harlan Lachman" <har...@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-DDF296....@news60.forteinc.com...
Yes...Rex is better than any recent coach...but the point is that much like
the Redskins will never climb out of that hole because of their owner and
how he handles things, I am not so sure the Jets will either. The entire
point of the thing is about the stupid decisions that appear to come from
somewhere other than the head coach, and then even seemingly promoting all
the bravado of the head coach with the TV show etc. Focus is very
important, and maybe with all this peripheral stuff that focus is being
hurt. Let's see what Woody does in the off season, what new scheme he will
hatch.
Harlan Lachman
"papa.carl44" <papad...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
> Grinch, You really don't understand it do you? He says he is going to the
> SB...he says it is a "win now" situation.
Papa,
While I will blame Rex for the performance of his Defense and even
Offense, and retaining that Folk Folk, what difference does it make what
he says?
He still has the highest winning percentage of any of the 17 Jets Head
Coaches. Theoretically, we can still make the playoffs or even win the
AFCE at this time (it will take a few games to make this point moot).
Blaming him for his mouth is silly and irrelevant.
Will Rex be our HC for awhile or ever win it all? Who knows. With Brady
in the Division and Manning in the Conference and the likelihood that
eventually the Chargers may replace Norv with a decent coach, and some
decent teams in the NFC, we would have to be lucky (not something that
happens to this particular team in the past 40+ years).
Let's focus on the decisions and not the mouth. For all we know it might
be eliminating pressure on the team even more than it puts a target on
their back.
Harlan