Norv Turner as OC?

[yoyodog]

With San Diego's season in the tank and Norv Turner's job in jeopardy would
you go after him to replace Schotty?

[Michael]

On Nov 28, 12:49 pm, "yoyodog" <connarchNOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> With San Diego's season in the tank and Norv Turner's job in jeopardy would
> you go after him to replace Schotty?

yes... no question about it... i would never take norv as a hc, but
i'd take him as an oc in a split second...

would norv consider going to the jets after the sligh rex made ???

[Papa Carl]

"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:33668432-5a9b-4a59...@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

Look...Woody bought the team and the first thing he did was hire the
Preacher. Then went to Mangini....so you get the decision making here.
When he hired Edwards he had Henning on the staff and available as the HC.
I know Henning had been given his chances before, but he would still have
been a far better choice than Herman was. Plus...he knew the available
talent and what could and could not be done. So Herman ruins the
team...makes terrible decisions and then gets out of Dodge...go to round two
of bad decisions...does round three make him out as a good owner? How long
before he gets it? I still think Rex took the job with conditions...I can
absolutely not see Rex deciding to keep Schott on his own and nobody will
convince me of that until I hear Rex say it and say it after he no longer
has a role with Woody as his boss. They do not fit together....who the Hell
let the ground and pound go? If this is all on Rex...then Woody made bad
decison number three...I just don't think that is the case.

[John C TX]

On Nov 28, 4:01 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message

>
> news:33668432-5a9b-4a59...@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 28, 12:49 pm, "yoyodog" <connarchNOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > With San Diego's season in the tank and Norv Turner's job in jeopardy
> > would
> > you go after him to replace Schotty?
>
> yes... no question about it... i would never take norv as a hc, but
> i'd take him as an oc in a split second...
>
> would norv consider going to the jets after the sligh rex made ???
>
>
>
> Look...Woody bought the team and the first thing he did was hire the
> Preacher.  Then went to Mangini....so you get the decision making here.
> When he hired Edwards he had Henning on the staff and available as the HC.
> I know Henning had been given his chances before, but he would still have
> been a far better choice than Herman was.

Papa you assume that Rex was given the job with the condition he hire
Schott, correct? That could be the case although a guy cocky enough
to show up 45 minutes late for his interview is probably strong enough
to say no but yo may be right as it wouldn't be the first time
although some -- not saying you-- are inconsistent as they say Woody
is all about the money well why pay a guy $2MM which is probably $1 -
1.5 MM over market for a green OC. We already had Callahan on staff.

How about the Rooney rule? I know it wasn't implemented yet but it was
teh height of discussion. Maybe Woody had a condition to purchase?

>Plus...he knew the available
> talent and what could and could not be done.  So Herman ruins the
> team...makes terrible decisions and then gets out of Dodge...go to round two
> of bad decisions...does round three make him out as a good owner?

I think you are rewriting history here.

We were destroyed by the cap when Parcells & Groh left. Bradway for
all his faults kept us mildly competitive by suckering the Texans into
taking our secondary by giving them a worthless OLineman if they took
on Glenn & Roberston's big $. We were so far over the cap we couldn't
even afford to tender Coles. Also we had an aging LB corps & then lost
how many more players because were cap poor? Not really Woody's fault
but Parcell's.

>How long
> before he gets it?  I still think Rex took the job with conditions...I can
> absolutely not see Rex deciding to keep Schott on his own and nobody will
> convince me of that until I hear Rex say it and say it after he no longer
> has a role with Woody as his boss.  They do not fit together....who the Hell
> let the ground and pound go?  If this is all on Rex...then Woody made bad
> decison number three...I just don't think that is the case.

I don't know.

[Johnny Morongo]

On 11/28/2011 9:49 AM, yoyodog wrote:
> With San Diego's season in the tank and Norv Turner's job in jeopardy
> would you go after him to replace Schotty?

Folks out here HATE Norv and would be glad to see him go, but they
generally agree that he is a good OC. But he just can't get his teams
up for challenges.

[Papa Carl]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2723016b-6188-4530...@u10g2000prl.googlegroups.com...

I don't KNOW anything. I can make guesses and assumptions based on what
information we can get. I don't think Rex is a bad coach and I think he is
smart. I can not for the life of me find a connection between him and
Schott before he comes to The Jets...I can't see any reason why he hires
him. Show me that logic and I'll become a believer. So hence, I
feel....not know...but feel, Rex got the job with conditions...Hell, maybe
his being late cost him the right to hire his own OC :-)

[MZ]

On Nov 28, 8:56 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I don't KNOW anything.  I can make guesses and assumptions based on what
> information we can get.  I don't think Rex is a bad coach and I think he is
> smart.  I can not for the life of me find a connection between him and
> Schott before he comes to The Jets...I can't see any reason why he hires
> him.  Show me that logic and I'll become a believer.  So hence, I
> feel....not know...but feel, Rex got the job with conditions...Hell, maybe
> his being late cost him the right to hire his own OC :-)

I think you're right. I think Woody believes that Schott is a
commodity and promised that he'd remain on staff as a consolation
prize for them passing him over for the head coaching job. It was a
win-win situation for everybody involved except Rex and Jets fans.

John, what was Rex's other option? Turn down the Jets job? After he
had already been passed over in Baltimore himself?

Didn't Sutton keep a job too? It seems to me that there were more
assistants retained than usual, which has ownership written all over
it.

[Papa Carl]

"MZ" <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:57891b72-0fbd-415a...@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

Much more aptly put than some of us expressed it, Thank you.

[Michael]

OK... Now how long have I been saying this ??? Schotty is being
sustained by Woody. It is the only thing that ever made any real
sense. Rex was wide-eyed to take a HC job and at the time he signed
on the dotted line he was too elated to even care or consider that he
was having a mill stone put around his neck with Schotty. Schotty was
conditional. IMHO, Tanny is part of the "buddy system" in the sense
that he'll "yes" Woddy all day long and play the game to *help* Woody
think that he is a big man in the company of big name Schotty the
genius. As for Papa... I think Papa is WAY off base when ever he says
that Woody is about money. That is total nonsense. Woody is far FAR
from a cheap-skate. Wooody spends and will SPEND... Woody is not
about saving money. Woody is about ego. He wants to be big... He
wants his team to be big, visible and elite. Like a lot of guys at
the top, he needs to *feel big* as much as he needs air and water.
For Woody, being around Schotty, who has a big name and who he
considers *incorrectly* to be a brain trust, is a nice big, juicy
piece of narcissistic supply.

That is what Woody is about, and that is why Schotty is there.

Michael has spoken.

[Michael]

On Nov 29, 10:48 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes

> I will answer all you loons all at once.
>
> :)
>
> Maybe it is because of my work & that theories or conspiracies can
> make you crazy, or in my case crazier, I try to use what it logical
> from a business perspective.  You can't control impulse, stupidity,
> etc. and it is out there but you don't know.  You all seem to grab a
> fact & build your story around it. Your starting point is you think
> Schott sucks so you try & imagine why Rex kept him around and now
> extended him for a year.
>
> Having written that you could be right but here is the time line:
>
> -Schott interviews for what becomes Rex' job.
>
> -Two weeks later after Rex is given the job Schott signs a two year
> extension. I forgot Schott was under contract for one more year at
> $1.5MM but if Schott quit weren't they out from it? Couldn't they have
> made him a de facto QB coach & then he would quit.  There were
> options.  Maybe you feel that there were options an use that to draw
> your conclusion but you ignore the one big one.  rex may like him.
>
> Here is why I question some  conclusions drawn in here.
>
> - Schott costs more money-- btw why was he even making $1.5 MM-- rich
> people like money.
>
> -Rex didn't have to keep him as he certainly could  have said I can
> work for him for one year and we can see how it goes. Maybe like when
> Schott was initially hired there was no one out there but both times
> it was only January. I always get back to why would Ryan take on a
> coach he didn't like but more importantly why extend him. maybe he
> didn't want a rival at OC or maybe he liked him.
>
> -I have seen references in here & other fan sites calling Schott's old
> man & Woody buddies.  Outside of Hard Knocks where they are seen
> together & that they now occasionally golf  there is no reference to a
> Woody & old Schott friendship. If there is show me.
>
> -Old, & Young Schott's career never crossed w/ Ryan before so that
> seems illogical that he was taking care of a buddy's son.
>
> - All reports in the media played up Ryan courting Schott citing how
> he stuck around in Baltimore after he was passed over.
>
> As for keeping on coaches I believe he kept four.  Johnson has done
> nothing in his life & by all accounts seems very hands off.  How else
> do you explain the Bradway Herm era?
>
> 1. Bill Callahan
> 2. Schott
> 3. Westhoff
> 4. Sutton
>
> No one has a problem with Westhoff.  Maybe Callahan is part of the old
> boy network as he had joined the jets in 2008 but maybe it is a case
> of a decent CV.  As for Sutton here is his CV and I wish Schott and
> all coordinators had this type of CV when they are hired.
>
> University of Michigan
>  (Graduate Assistant)
> Syracuse
>  (Linebackers Coach)
> Western Michigan
>  (Defensive Coordinator)
> Illinois
>  (Defensive Coordinator and Linebackers Coach)
> Western Michigan
>  (Offensive Coordinator)
> North Carolina State
>  (Running Backs Coach)
> Army
>  (Defensive Coordinator)
> Army
>  (Head Coach)
> New York Jets
>  (Linebackers Coach)
> New York Jets
>  (Defensive Coordinator)
> New York Jets
>  (Defensive Assistant/Linebackers Coach)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

John...

I know you say it could be partly the QB... And I agree... Sanchez has
been horrible and cost them at least a dozzen games with turn-overs.
In the end, we still have Schotty's over all performance to go by.
The same problems over and over. Problems that are not related to the
QB. I dont think we need to go over them again for the 100'th time.

Look at what Rex did with the Jets defense in a single season...

Look at what the Denver coaches are doing with Tebow.

Why cant Schotty do anything with the Jets offense ??? The Jet offense
is one of the worst in the NFL. A good coach would get more from what
they have had as far as the roster goes even with a limited QB.

[John C TX]

Is this a discussion on Schott's ability or why he was extended when
Rex was hired? I am not saying it wasn't Woody's call I am just
saying it is a stretch to get there.

If Schott would or could run a Tebow offense you would be crucifying
him & rightly so. They have scored the following since Tebow started:
18,10, 38,17, 17, & 16 points. They are winning because they have a
very good defensive coach in Fox and Tebow has thrown 1 pick. What is
our record of Sanchez only had one pick? I also think and still do
that it is easier to turn a defense than an offense because there is
no ball in hand especially if your QB is average or worse.

I have said Schott should move on as he can't fix things & unless Rex
has given up on Sanchez that he should go. I just think some of the
criticism is BS & at times from seat appears to people ignores the
failings of players while other criticism, like the lack of discipline
some personnel use, is valid & an indictment of the coaches of the OL,
TE, & OC & why they should go. That Schott got extended I think you
may see a new OL coach next year.

[John C TX]

should say, yes Johnny I am correcting

I have said that Schott should move on as he can't fix things & unless
Rex
has given up on Sanchez that Schott should go.

I just think some of the criticism is BS & at times & from my seat
appears that people  ignore the
failings of players. Other criticism, like the lack of discipline &

some personnel use, is valid & an indictment of the coaches of the OL,

TE, & OC & they should all go. That Schott got extended makes me think
you will see a new OL coach next year.

[Johnny Morongo]

On 11/29/2011 9:35 AM, John C TX wrote:

>
> If Schott would or could run a Tebow offense you would be crucifying

> him& rightly so. They have scored the following since Tebow started:
> 18,10, 38,17, 17,& 16 points. They are winning because they have a

> very good defensive coach in Fox and Tebow has thrown 1 pick.

Watch Fox wind up in Jacksonville as their new HC. I think he has MUCH
better credentials than Schitty.

[John C TX]

Fox is head coach in Denver. Maybe Jacksonville hires Schott.

[MZ]

On Nov 29, 10:48 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

John, it's not a conspiracy theory. It's two alternative and equally
plausible ideas -- 1) Rex hired Schott, 2) Woody hired Schott. Rex is
a first-time head coach. Why assume that he had all the say on the
groceries, even if the groceries happen to be assistant coaches? An
established coach like Cowher or Gruden would have his own guys to
bring in. Rex had nobody but Pettine. I think it's possible -- even
likely -- that Woody (and/or Tannenbaum) pushed Schott. That's not
even the question though. The real question is whether Rex was forced
to keep him on after two years of success. He probably had the
leverage at that point to get rid of him. However, they WERE
successful years, and I think it's difficult to fire an assistant
coach after you make it to the AFCCG. I can't think of many times
that sort of thing has happened -- the only thing that comes to mind
is when daddy Schott got fired after going 14-2...

[John C TX]

That is a fair comment. Perhaps I read a level of adamance into what
people write about Schott that isn't there because at times some
opinions are laden with dogmatism. I try to realize what I am typing
is just an opinion with the key word being try. I will try & take a
deep breath when I read you, PC, Michael's & all teh other fans that
wish Schott was coaching elsewhere.

:)

If you are talking about year one Rex' big disadvantage coming from
the Ravens after all those years is that many of the assistants there
were probably tied up. He might have been forced to look at some of
the jets' existing staff. I do wonder if Callahan & Sutton were
economic, or perhaps to give Woody some due, loyalty. Sutton had
been there for years & Callahan had just moved to NY one year before.

As for Schott I am bit confused. Are you talking about the current
extension they gave him or the initial one right after the Rex' hire?
I am talking about the initial extension but that Woody, Tanny & Ryan
extended him recently to me is more proof it is Rex.

Woody could like Schott or his old man or maybe has blind loyalty. I
think it more likely that if he was forced on Rex it is Tanny but I
guess from what I have seen of Schott is why? Even I wouldn't argue
he has been a great OC & his personality makes Al Gore look
effervescent.

:)

There have been OL issues this year. Schott can't fix him. If he
returns--meaning he doesn't get a head coaching gig-- I bet you see
Callahan hit the bricks.

[Michael]

On Nov 30, 8:52 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 29, 3:52 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 29, 10:48 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > <snip>
>
> > John, it's not a conspiracy theory.  It's two alternative and equally
> > plausible ideas -- 1) Rex hired Schott, 2) Woody hired Schott.  Rex is
> > a first-time head coach.  Why assume that he had all the say on the
> > groceries, even if the groceries happen to be assistant coaches?  An
> > established coach like Cowher or Gruden would have his own guys to
> > bring in.  Rex had nobody but Pettine.  I think it's possible -- even
> > likely -- that Woody (and/or Tannenbaum) pushed Schott.  That's not
> > even the question though.  The real question is whether Rex was forced
> > to keep him on after two years of success.  He probably had the
> > leverage at that point to get rid of him.  However, they WERE
> > successful years, and I think it's difficult to fire an assistant
> > coach after you make it to the AFCCG.  I can't think of many times
> > that sort of thing has happened -- the only thing that comes to mind
> > is when daddy Schott got fired after going 14-2...
>
> That is a fair comment. Perhaps I read a level of adamance into what
> people write about Schott that isn't there because at times some
> opinions are laden with dogmatism.

There's that word again... "dogma" :-)

>I try to realize what I am typing
> is just an opinion with the key word being try. I will try & take a
> deep breath when I read you, PC, Michael's & all teh other fans that
> wish Schott was coaching elsewhere.
>
> :)
>
> If you are talking about year one Rex' big disadvantage coming from
> the Ravens after all those years is that many of the assistants there
> were probably tied up.  He might have been forced to look at some of
> the jets' existing  staff.  I do wonder if Callahan & Sutton were
> economic, or perhaps to give Woody some due,  loyalty.  Sutton had
> been there for years & Callahan had just moved to NY one year before.
>
> As for Schott I am bit confused.  Are you talking about the current
> extension they gave him or the initial one right after the Rex' hire?
> I am talking about the initial extension but that Woody, Tanny & Ryan
> extended him recently to me is more proof it is Rex.
>
> Woody could like Schott or his old man or maybe has blind loyalty.  I
> think it more likely that if he was forced on  Rex it is Tanny but I
> guess from what I have seen of Schott is why?  Even I wouldn't argue
> he has been a great OC & his personality makes Al Gore look
> effervescent.
>
> :)
>
> There have been OL issues this year. Schott can't fix him.  If he
> returns--meaning he doesn't get a head coaching gig-- I bet you see

> Callahan hit the bricks.- Hide quoted text -

[Papa Carl]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:c9fc6ae0-b681-496b...@i8g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...

At least you understand now that a lot of times YOU READ it into what others
post. If we all knew for certain what we were speculating on nobody would
post anything.

[Johnny Morongo]

On 11/30/2011 6:16 AM, Michael wrote:
> There's that word again... "dogma":-)

Great movie!

[John C TX]

On Nov 30, 10:26 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:c9fc6ae0-b681-496b...@i8g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...

Yes Mr. Pot

signed
Mr. Kettle

:)

I think if you look back some of the posts calling me crazy & many
much harsher than that, ignoring that there's is an opinion as well. I
don't mind getting called on it when I do it. What seems to irritate
people is when you call them on it or even more harsh accuse them of
working backwards.

[John C TX]

ugghh Kevin Smith & it isn't the irreverence as you have met me & I
lve irreverence. It just wasn't funny & worse simplistic but that is
just my opinion.

I saw a good flick over the weekend. It will get you brownie points
with your bride. My Week With Marilyn...

[John C TX]

> > That is a fair comment. Perhaps I read a level of adamance into what
> > people write about Schott that isn't there because at times some
> > opinions are laden with dogmatism.
>
> There's that word again... "dogma"  :-)

Michael, sadly the word has been distorted into something ugly. Now I
won't go into the religious side but from practical side they are
useful in coaching, teaching, etc. You don't want too many & they
should always be challenged but the word has taken on such a negative
connotation & no I am not blaming you or Sanchez.

:)

[Papa Carl]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:b3500bb2-2414-48ac...@g7g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...

Not sure what you mean there...what I said was this is ALL BS...all of us
slinging it...that is what a group is...this is not hard news..none of us
has access to the inner workings of the team. I think Mark put it quite
well...given a set of circumstances it makes a lot of sense as to how
someone stayed on...and even why they stay. They had success with a very
different offense and ground and pound...I don't think getting rid of those
guys was Schotts fault at all...but I nobody knows for sure. It is not a
successful system now.