Additional Big Ben incidents to be revealed ???
Michael
The details that have come out about the most recent Big Ben news
event look bad enough... It would appear as if some others may be dug
up now given the attention that the last two incidents have gotten...
Obviously no convictions, but it is not looking good for Ben...
Harlan Lachman
<ea22e582-312c-4b99...@e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
Michael <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Interesting link here...
>
> http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/Attorney_Investigated_Big_B
> en_For_Vegas_Incident/2416479
>
> The details that have come out about the most recent Big Ben news
> event look bad enough... It would appear as if some others may be dug
> up now given the attention that the last two incidents have gotten...
>
> Obviously no convictions, but it is not looking good for Ben...
This is all a disqualified witness' claims. It seems to me that if there
was any substantiation, there would have been charges in a he said she
said situation.
However, if Rothlesberger's lawyer does not go after this very
aggressively, Ben was a very bad and very lucky boy.
h
Michael
> In article
> <ea22e582-312c-4b99-a727-81eff4a7d...@e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,> >http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/Attorney_Investiga...
> > en_For_Vegas_Incident/2416479
>
> > The details that have come out about the most recent Big Ben news
> > event look bad enough... It would appear as if some others may be dug
> > up now given the attention that the last two incidents have gotten...
>
> > Obviously no convictions, but it is not looking good for Ben...
>
> This is all a disqualified witness' claims. It seems to me that if there
> was any substantiation, there would have been charges in a he said she
> said situation.
>
> However, if Rothlesberger's lawyer does not go after this very
> aggressively, Ben was a very bad and very lucky boy.
>
> h
as is, i'm far from convinced that he's a rapist... both of the two
charges and the stories that go along with them leave a lot of
questions. still.... no doubt that he was boozin it up with people
under the drinking age, he hangs out at places so he can get to
college girls and he does not deny pulling his junk out in public.
any way you slice it, he has at least broken some conduct rules and
should draw league penalty. i also got a feeling that the ambasaror
wants him gone.
Eüphy
Ben needs to start writing checks and staying out of strip clubs. He's
clearly looking at a suspension and, if Roger reads the recently
released details of the GA investigation where charges were not filed,
he may just decide that Rapingbugger has earned an eight game vacation
for 2010. Even Ben's lawyer is going to tell him to just pay off his
victims, shut the fuck up and do what he can to rehabilitate his
reputation. As it stands, it looks to me like the guy who won two Super
Bowls so early in his career that he looked to be a lock for the HOF
will now have to singlehandedly save 100 children from a burning
orphanage to even get a nomination.
Ü
Harlan Lachman
E�phy <euph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> �
CORRECTION: These are not details. They are unsubstantiated claims. Were
they anything more, there would have been charges.
h
Eüphy
> In article <3m96c8....@news.alt.net>,
>
> CORRECTION: These are not details. They are unsubstantiated claims. Were
> they anything more, there would have been charges.
>
> h
CORRECTION: "Details" is not a synonym of the word "fact" and nowhere
did I state that these were the facts. YOU say they are unsubstantiated
claims - that is actually incorrect. There are witnesses that
corroborate the basic circumstances of the story. Certainly the
statements given by the friends of the girl to cause most people to feel
that Uncle Ben is a real slimy piece of shit.
If you don't care for that assessment and believe that Ben is the victim
here, then you are evidently in the minority. Given the information that
was published, I find it surprising that charges were not filed. IMO,
there may actually be grounds for charging the "bodyguards" that
prevented the girl's friends from reaching her - they clearly knew what
was going down. Ben was having his way with a college girl who was
falling-down drunk. Since you are clearly a legal scholar, look this up
under "informed consent."
Regardless, Ben will serve a substantial suspension and pay significant
damages. He has firmly established himself as a "gritball" in the minds
of many people and that doesn't require any charges. If you wish to
take up his cause, that is your right.
Ü
papa.carl44
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ea22e582-312c-4b99...@e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Was Ben using good judgement when he wrecked his motorcycle? Has he
continually put himself in situations that can result in a spotlight being
shined in his face? He is not making good choices and doesn't appear to
learn a Hell of a lot from the ones that go badly wrong. That said, perhaps
that aspect of his personality is the risk taker that makes him play the way
he does. It seems to me, if he walks away from this mess with no real
consequences he is most likely going to do something else before too long.
Life works in patterns usually, and Ben seems to have a pattern of living a
little close to the edge. Does anybody find it interesting how we fry Tiger
Woods and give a pass to a football player? Frankly, I don't really give a
damn about Tiger or what he is doing. I think he's nuts...If I had Elin
around the house I don't think I'd be even considering playing golf :-)
MZ
IOW, don't fuck with euphy.
Eüphy
Who fried Tiger? He wasn't accused of rape. He is definitely the
source of a lot of gossip and his marital situation is daily fodder for
the media. Ben definitely isn't getting a pass on this. He's going to
be suspended.
Ü
Eüphy
>>>
>>> CORRECTION: These are not details. They are unsubstantiated claims.
>>> Were they anything more, there would have been charges.
>>> h
>>
>>
>>
>> CORRECTION: "Details" is not a synonym of the word "fact" and nowhere
>> did I state that these were the facts. YOU say they are
>> unsubstantiated claims - that is actually incorrect. There are
>> witnesses that corroborate the basic circumstances of the story.
>> Certainly the statements given by the friends of the girl to cause
>> most people to feel that Uncle Ben is a real slimy piece of shit.
>>
>> If you don't care for that assessment and believe that Ben is the
>> victim here, then you are evidently in the minority. Given the
>> information that was published, I find it surprising that charges were
>> not filed. IMO, there may actually be grounds for charging the
>> "bodyguards" that prevented the girl's friends from reaching her -
>> they clearly knew what was going down. Ben was having his way with a
>> college girl who was falling-down drunk. Since you are clearly a
>> legal scholar, look this up under "informed consent."
>>
>> Regardless, Ben will serve a substantial suspension and pay
>> significant damages. He has firmly established himself as a
>> "gritball" in the minds of many people and that doesn't require any
>> charges. If you wish to take up his cause, that is your right.
>>
>
> IOW, don't fuck with euphy.
What has euphy got to do with it?
I think the better phrase would be don't fuck with Roger. Euphy is
only predicting that Roger is going to give Ben at least a four game
suspension and thinks it might be eight.
�
papa.carl44
"Eüphy" <euph...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3m9k6l....@news.alt.net...
What world do you live in? Tiger lost a ton of money, endorsements....paid
a huge price for his screw ups. I doubt Ben gets suspended....I think it
will be "over." No legal charges and nothing will happen.
RävNsfän ®
news:X-SdnZYl1KBDpFbW...@giganews.com...
Ben will be suspended, ...or Goodell and Rooney will appear racists in their
handling of Holmes. Ben will be sued in civil court as he should be and will
likely pay up prior to it getting on the floor of the courthouse and Court
TV, ...Rooney and Goodell will see to that. No criminal charge(s) does not
mean there is not a civil case because there are good grounds for one
starting with the investigating cop that resigned before he was terminated.
The preponderance of guilt is far less in civil court to get a guilty
verdict and the evidence is not held to the same strict standards as that of
a criminal case.
Ben's gonna cut two big checks before the year is out if he wants to be a
steeler in 2011. I'm still not convinced he will not be traded.
Drew ~
RävNsfän ®
"...I'm sending him (RävNsfän ®) to the kill file,
I suggest the rest of you do the same".
*Strickland* - April 15, 2009
"...I guess I'll go back to my previous habit
of just ignoring your (RävNsfän ®) posts..."
*Rocky* (the nutless squirrel) - Feb 23, 2010
Michael
wrote:
> "Eüphy" <euphem...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3m9k6l....@news.alt.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > papa.carl44 wrote:
> >> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>news:ea22e582-312c-4b99...@e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> >>> Interesting link here...
>
>
> >>> The details that have come out about the most recent Big Ben news
> >>> event look bad enough... It would appear as if some others may be dug
> >>> up now given the attention that the last two incidents have gotten...
>
> >>> Obviously no convictions, but it is not looking good for Ben...
>
> >> Was Ben using good judgement when he wrecked his motorcycle? Has he
> >> continually put himself in situations that can result in a spotlight
> >> being shined in his face? He is not making good choices and doesn't
> >> appear to learn a Hell of a lot from the ones that go badly wrong. That
> >> said, perhaps that aspect of his personality is the risk taker that makes
> >> him play the way he does. It seems to me, if he walks away from this
> >> mess with no real consequences he is most likely going to do something
> >> else before too long. Life works in patterns usually, and Ben seems to
> >> have a pattern of living a little close to the edge. Does anybody find
> >> it interesting how we fry Tiger Woods and give a pass to a football
> >> player? Frankly, I don't really give a damn about Tiger or what he is
> >> doing. I think he's nuts...If I had Elin around the house I don't think
> >> I'd be even considering playing golf :-)
>
> > Who fried Tiger? He wasn't accused of rape. He is definitely the source
> > of a lot of gossip and his marital situation is daily fodder for the
> > media. Ben definitely isn't getting a pass on this. He's going to be
> > suspended.
>
> > Ü
>
> What world do you live in? Tiger lost a ton of money, endorsements....paid
> a huge price for his screw ups. I doubt Ben gets suspended....I think it
>
> - Show quoted text -
Michael
>
> news:3m9k6l....@news.alt.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > papa.carl44 wrote:
> >> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>news:ea22e582-312c-4b99...@e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> >>> Interesting link here...
>
>
> >>> The details that have come out about the most recent Big Ben news
> >>> event look bad enough... It would appear as if some others may be dug
> >>> up now given the attention that the last two incidents have gotten...
>
> >>> Obviously no convictions, but it is not looking good for Ben...
>
> >> Was Ben using good judgement when he wrecked his motorcycle? Has he
> >> continually put himself in situations that can result in a spotlight
> >> being shined in his face? He is not making good choices and doesn't
> >> appear to learn a Hell of a lot from the ones that go badly wrong. That
> >> said, perhaps that aspect of his personality is the risk taker that makes
> >> him play the way he does. It seems to me, if he walks away from this
> >> mess with no real consequences he is most likely going to do something
> >> else before too long. Life works in patterns usually, and Ben seems to
> >> have a pattern of living a little close to the edge. Does anybody find
> >> it interesting how we fry Tiger Woods and give a pass to a football
> >> player? Frankly, I don't really give a damn about Tiger or what he is
> >> doing. I think he's nuts...If I had Elin around the house I don't think
> >> I'd be even considering playing golf :-)
>
> > Who fried Tiger? He wasn't accused of rape. He is definitely the source
> > of a lot of gossip and his marital situation is daily fodder for the
> > media. Ben definitely isn't getting a pass on this. He's going to be
> > suspended.
>
> > Ü
>
> What world do you live in? Tiger lost a ton of money, endorsements....paid
> a huge price for his screw ups. I doubt Ben gets suspended....I think it
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ben us gonna get suspended. He was boozing with girls under the
drinking age while he had his cock out. That is a violation of
personal conduct. If the league does not suspend him, and I'm sure
they will, than the Steelers will sit him down.
papa.carl44
I had to go back and look up some of the stuff he is accused of....I'm more
inclined to see how much trouble he is in, and like I said he continues to
use very poor judgement and IMHO..is a complete ass for behavior like that.
He still needs to have some measure of guilt proven....he may still buy his
way out. And...if he does, he will play is my guess. It should be
interesting to see. If he gets away with this I lose even more respect for
the integrity of the game. But...somebody has to prove he did it.
Eüphy
Tiger Woods cheated on his wife. People don't go to prison for that.
Yes, Woods has taken a huge financial hit, but he hasn't flirted with
criminal charges. No one is going to suspend him from the tour.
It's good that you think Ben avoids suspension. Someone has to be on
that side of the boat.
Ü
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
Papa.... As far as I know the only thing that is in dispute is the
sexual assault. He did not deny buying drinks for college kids, he
did not deny exposing himself. There will be no criminal charges as
it looks like the sexual assault is not provable, but he absolutely
did buy booz for people below the drinking age and he did pull out his
package in public. Other than what happened in the bathroom between
him and the girl, there were many people that saw the other stuff.
He's gonna get suspended for personal conduct. They cant jail him
because the assault cant be proven.
papa.carl44
You know what...YOU go out and buy some booze for a bunch of kids and see
how quickly you get nailed and quite possibly go to jail...and expose
yourself in public...I am certain you will get locked up.....so yes, he is
getting away with a lot...but look who he had with him, those two idiots
should never be allowed to work as policemen again....I hope they had their
fun, because it should be over.
papa.carl44
No...nobody has to be on any side of any boat.....I'm only making a guess
based on no criminal charges being placed. I think he is a complete ass...I
wouldn't want him on my team and I wouldn't want to play with him
particularly, but I'm not on any side of anything...you do sound like a
troll though for sure :-)
Johnctx
> "Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:3986155c-319c-4bcd...@12g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 18, 7:14 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
> wrote:
>> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:58c2a1f6-e7ba-484a...@f17g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 18, 12:57 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Papa, one resigned already. I thought the same thing.
Michael
wrote:
> "Eüphy" <euphem...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3mcspt....@news.alt.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > papa.carl44 wrote:
> >> "Eüphy" <euphem...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >>news:3m9k6l....@news.alt.net...
> >>> papa.carl44 wrote:
> >>>> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:ea22e582-312c-4b99...@e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>> Interesting link here...
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
papa...
i'm not sure what direction you are coming from... on the other thread
where i was discussing santonio, it seemed like you were defending
guys that act out, and here you want a rope around rothlisbergers
neck ???
what the hell ???
MZ
> it. I'm not defending Santonio....I think he did some terrible things and
> is an idiot...HOWEVER, he has shown some contrition....talked about wanting
> to do the right thing, our superstar Big Ben shows no contrition from what I
> see.....he goes from one mess to another, and I do think there are other
> issues here. I was around the game for a long time....and I saw a lot of
> kids get in a lot of trouble...on average, I saw a lot more white guys get a
> pass than I saw minority kids get a pass on some things. I don't find that
> strange, look at what goes on in society. The laws that treat cocaine
> posession and crack or rock cocaine posession so differently are completely
> biased. In fact, if you do some research, and I know you do this stuff and
> can come up with some good work, you will find that most of the drug laws in
> this country have origins in racial bias. There are no uniform drug laws or
> any sensible evolution of those laws. Santonio got a suspension...he
> deserved it, now, if he plays and stays out of trouble I'm willing to let
> him grow up and mature. Ben has been given lots of chances already,
> wrecking the motorcycle was an idiot decision and he does not seem to be
> acting like someone who is concerned about changing himself. I think he
> should have consequences....what I was saying is my bet is he may get a walk
> on it...hope I'm wrong. They may trade him and let the next "buyer" deal
> with him.
It's also worth pointing out that the allegations against Ben, if true,
are much much worse than anything Santonio did.
papa.carl44
>
> news:3mcspt....@news.alt.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > papa.carl44 wrote:
> >> "E�phy" <euphem...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> >> What world do you live in? Tiger lost a ton of money,
> >> endorsements....paid a huge price for his screw ups. I doubt Ben gets
> >> suspended....I think it will be "over." No legal charges and nothing
> >> will happen.
>
> > Tiger Woods cheated on his wife. People don't go to prison for that.
> > Yes,
> > Woods has taken a huge financial hit, but he hasn't flirted with
> > criminal
> > charges. No one is going to suspend him from the tour.
>
> > It's good that you think Ben avoids suspension. Someone has to be on
> > that
> > side of the boat.
>
>
> No...nobody has to be on any side of any boat.....I'm only making a guess
> based on no criminal charges being placed. I think he is a complete
> ass...I
> wouldn't want him on my team and I wouldn't want to play with him
> particularly, but I'm not on any side of anything...you do sound like a
> troll though for sure :-)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
papa...
i'm not sure what direction you are coming from... on the other thread
where i was discussing santonio, it seemed like you were defending
guys that act out, and here you want a rope around rothlisbergers
neck ???
what the hell ???
A Nation of Law...that's all. My position is to let the law take care of
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
ok.. i got it... you think there is a chance for santonio, but feel
rothlisberger is by far a worse offender and a repeat offender that
has shown no singns of wanting to change. imho, i dont want either one
on my team. if santonio fucks up again, they better cut his ass loose
most pdq.
in the big ben case, i dont think you have to worry about the non
minority getting a pass. all the media sources are reporting that
goodell will announce his punishement by the end of the day tomorrow.
i'm betting he gets at least four weeks. may be as many as six
weeks. he'll be sitting as long if not longer than santonio. with
the atomosphere and public opinion looming over this big ben stuff, he
wont be getting anything but the book tossed at him. if he fucks up
one more time he's gonna get run out of the nfl.
papa.carl44
I generally agree with you...but if Vick didn't get run out (and I still
beliieve he paid his debt) Ben may wind up somewhere....Oakland? Thing is
if he gets a six week sit down at the beginning of the season...he is
useless to anybody but as a back up somewhere or to come back for a team
that is already in deep trouble seven games in to the season. What an
idiot....now, he absolutely should be in an alcohol rehab...if you get your
ass in this much trouble while your drunk...you HAVE a drinking
problem...and that's the good news, if this is something he'd do while stone
sober....he's beyond help. OMHO
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:mqKdnWo01PgDNlHW...@giganews.com...
> papa.carl44 wrote:
>> "Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:ec6eb3a9-5781-485f...@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 18, 9:10 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> news:3mcspt....@news.alt.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> papa.carl44 wrote:
>>>>> "E�phy" <euphem...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>>> What world do you live in? Tiger lost a ton of money,
>>>>> endorsements....paid a huge price for his screw ups. I doubt Ben gets
>>>>> suspended....I think it will be "over." No legal charges and nothing
>>>>> will happen.
>>>> Tiger Woods cheated on his wife. People don't go to prison for that.
>>>> Yes,
>>>> Woods has taken a huge financial hit, but he hasn't flirted with
>>>> criminal
>>>> charges. No one is going to suspend him from the tour.
>>>> It's good that you think Ben avoids suspension. Someone has to be on
>>>> that
>>>> side of the boat.
I completely agree. Those pictures of him with the girls are damming in
themselves...he's hammered, wearing a shirt that advocates getting hammered
and acting like a college sophomore...NOT a professional anything. Somehow,
my gut tells me Ben has gotten a lot of passes during his lifetime. There
was a kid from North Jersey quite a long time ago....the early to mid 60's.
He was all everything in football, Parade, All American the works, he was a
two time State wrestling champion at heavyweight too...he went to Purdue I
believe and then to Alabama...got thrown out of a couple pro camps I
believe...and I've been told he sits in a foreign jail somewhere...my point
is, I've seen a disproportionate number of athletes, especially very
aggressive athletes get into a lot of trouble, and not be able to leave all
the wild behavior, violence and wrecklessness that worked for them on the
field, out of their lives when they left the field. And a lot of times I
saw these same kids have adults who bailed them out time and time
again...and in the end it never was to their benefit. I think Ben looks
like that type of story.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
did he not make his decision to go looking for women at a college bar
before he tossed back the first shot ??? any way you slice it, he is
a shit heel.
Michael
wrote:
<SNIP>
>I think Ben looks like that type of story.- Hide quoted text -
I think Ben looks like a truck ran over his face.
Michael
wrote:
> I generally agree with you...but if Vick didn't get run out (and I still
> beliieve he paid his debt)
Vick should have been run out of the league. Ideally he should have
been run off the planet.
papa.carl44
My experience would tell me Ben had a few beers or shots before he even left
the house, or wherever he was staying.....going to look for women is one
thing, doing what he is accused of and looking the way he did is
another...and his shirt sort of is an advertisement too "Drink Like A
Champion" ? It's like a mugger wearing a Tee shirt that says "Thug of the
Month Club"
papa.carl44
OK...I'm hoping you don't get to be King....I sort of like laws and courts
and stuff like that, even when they don't seem to work it's better than one
person being judge, jury and executioner. I'd have a hard time even saying
hello to him, but that's just me. In the last job / profession I had before
I got sick I worked with some people who had committed horrible crimes, even
murder. In the circumstances I had to deal with them they were often pretty
decent people with a lot of regrets and contrition for their past. I do
believe people can change.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
papa... i cant assume that ben was shit faced before he left his front
door. i dont blame it on the booze... he was on the way to being a
fuck-up before he took his first drink... yes.. i do agree with you
that he'll be less of a fuck-up without booze... if he gets treatment
for booze, he will learn a lot of things about himself and such
treatment will speak to all the issues he might have.
Michael
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
papa... with the nature of the crimes in vick's case in my judgment,
vick is incorrigible. he's a ruined person no matter what he is
saying now. i don't have years of coaching or football experience
like you do, but i do have experience with animal welfare issues.
i've done volunteer work and have heard from animal health
authorities. they all agree to a man/woman that serial abusers of
animals are in just about every case psychotic or sociopathic. any of
them given the chance would move on to doing the same to people if
they haven't already. few if any are rehabilitated and the ones that
stop only do so because they have been caught and know authorities are
watching. as soon as such a person begins to feel that there are no
consequences, they act up again. always.
MZ
minority report
MZ
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
I mean your justification for throwing away the key being based on the
assumption that if he did it to animals then humans would be next.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
nice try. vick already did the deeds. many times and at length.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
mark... sadly, that is almost always the case...and if you ask me,
animal cruelty is about the worst thing that a person can do in my
book. i have a built in hatred of animal abusers.
MZ
I'll echo papacarl's sentiments then. Good thing your book isn't law. :)
papa.carl44
You completely missed my point. When I left education and coaching I went
into behavioral healthcare. I am a Licensed Clinical Alcohol and Drug
Counselor, that is what I was doing when I became ill and eventually was
forced into retirement. All I said was someone who has the things happen,
that happen to him while he just happens to be cosuming alcohol has a
problem...with alcohol. Yes....he could be a complete total ass with or
without it...but he will never make any changes until he does something
about the catalyst that seems to be a major part of his problems.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
Well....I can't agree. I'm not going to argue, but I still believe in
people, and people can change. I've seen far too many cases of it. I even
got to work with a guy who will never leave prison, but he does a lot of
good for people where he is and they even bring him out to talk to young
people that are in trouble. I'd have this particular guy in my home any day
of the week. Nothing is forever.
papa.carl44
I hate animal abusers too. I have always had dogs and we raised labradors
for years. My point is that I have not given up on people as a species and
will judge them on a case by case basis. When Vick offends again, I'll take
it up again. He paid his price according to the law, and according to the
league. I don't like him, and that has NO bearing on it at all. Maybe if I
met him and we sat down and talked about it he could prove to me he has
changed his outlook on the issues. My concerns with him were not that he
would necessarily go do something to some kid or a woman but rather that it
is impossible to separate the game he was in with other criminal activity.
If he is still hanging with the same "group" he once did hang with...then
he's gonna get into trouble again, but I don't know that. I get up every
morning and settle on one fact....there is a God, and it's not me. As long
as I'm not God...I don't need to judge everybody. And, if somebody wants to
change their lives in a positive way, I will always be available to help
them.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
i'm not god either... i dont get into the water if i see sharks. vick
is a pos. animal abusers should get capitol punishment.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
papa.... i'm not a trained expert in addictions...from my own limited
observations, the people i know that went off track with booze seemed
to have problems before they took their first drink. i see what you
are getting at though. he cant move ahead unless he cuts out the
booze first and so i agree...
papa.carl44
It seems like the booze is part of his picture all the time...and, when I
ran some outpatient groups it was standard policy to tell guys to not show
up in their favorite shirts, advertising booze shirts....it sounds like a
little thing, but it tells you a lot. I remember one guy who said he had to
go buy all new tee shirts...he literally didn't have any that weren't about
booze of some kind. What we choose to "advertise" with says a lot about who
we are usually I think. Have you ever been so disgusted that you won't wear
your Jets stuff? I sure have. For the most part, I refuse to wear stuff
that advertises anything or makes any kind of a statement to too much of a
degree. I have some tee shirts that promote the Foundation I run and I have
one all black one with very tiny white lettering that says, "Of course you
are entitled to your opinion--I just don't want to hear it." I wear that at
family reunions.
Michael
wrote:
<SNIP>
>> papa.... i'm not a trained expert in addictions...from my own limited
> >observations, the people i know that went off track with booze seemed
>> to have problems before they took their first drink. i see what you
> >are getting at though. he cant move ahead unless he cuts out the
>> booze first and so i agree...
> It seems like the booze is part of his picture all the time...and, when I
> ran some outpatient groups it was standard policy to tell guys to not show
> up in their favorite shirts, advertising booze shirts....it sounds like a
> little thing, but it tells you a lot. I remember one guy who said he had to
> go buy all new tee shirts...he literally didn't have any that weren't about
> booze of some kind.
Interesting... Most of the people I knew/know that had/have real
problems with booze did/do everything they can to hide it. They would
never have been seen in a t-shirt with booze advertising icons on it.
In the line of work that I have been doing all my life, professional
sales, I've come across a lot of addictive personalities. That kinda
work seems to attract people that are compulsive on one way or
another. Lots have something to prove 24-7 just like an athlete
does. Immediate self gratification is also a common trait. Lots of
people will work in an intense, aggressive spurt and than think...
"Now I've done all that, I need to do something for myself". The
"something" they need to do can be healthy recreation, but all too
often it is booze or worse.
papa.carl44
<SNIP>
A salseman is not going to go wear a shirt like that. I don't think an
executive at any level will either. Guys who picture themselves as rugged,
wild, have no rules may choose to do so. Go walk on the boards at the
Jersey shore and notice how many you see, given they are on vacation it's
understandable, but it also says what they think a good time is and what is
needed to have it. When I was drinking, over two decades ago, I would never
wear anything like that either. It wasn't my deal, I never liked drawing
attention to myself. Me thinks Ben does like attention. That's the deal,
it's how you act out what is going on inside of you. In those same groups
with the tee shirt guys I would have some white shirted executive who was
certain he had nothing in common with any of the others in the group. On
one occasion a particularly resistant sales guy actually ran into the young
guy he used to score some coke from in the group. Here they were, both
addicts, using cocaine and booze to the extreme and sitting together. The
sales guy was selling stocks and the other guy, in his "hip" clothes was
selling anything he could make a buck on too, but at local "chic" nite spot.
Ben is the guy who wants everyone to know who he is, how much he can drink
and handle, how big he is...he is the "conspicuous consumption" guy. Point
is...there is no one model for an addict...lots of common traits that can be
expressed in many ways...but no one model...they come in all sizes, colors,
varieties.
Michael
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
in general dont you think that most adicts try to hide their
addiction ??? obviously, big ben is a special case... but there are
not that many rock stars and nfl qb's out there... in all other cases,
it is not "OK" or kewl to be an adict, and people try to hide it.
papa.carl44
Go to a suburband area where guys get off the train from Manhattan, see how
many head for the upscale bar on the corner. See how many leave a whole
bunch of cash there. Yeah, people hide some stuff, and others try and prove
they can handle it, especially booze. And some guys think that if they are
not at work, or going to work the next day it's all OK....the numbers of
people seeking treatment go way down in the summer...folks don't like to go
to treatment and mess up their vacations :-) Now Ben's vacation is
extended. He is a real ass.