Best Jet LB in team history ???

[Michael]

Taking a quick break from the current Jets..

Who's the best all around LB in Jets history ???

1. Grantham
2. Lance Mehl
3. Greg Buttle
4. Kyle Clifton
5. Mo Lewis
6. Davis Harris
7. Other

I'm not sure... Grantham was before my time.. Do you see any one of
those guys being the easy pick ???

[Papa Carl]

"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:c0548e81-8373-4b7a...@18g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...

You forgot Wahoo McDaniles????

[Michael]

On Sep 27, 7:55 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message

Who is he??? Remember Stan Blikna the clothes line king???

[oldn...@mindspring.com]

Grantham by a mile.

I saw him with my own lying eyes. Backing them up, PFR.com and their "bizzare statistics" rate Grantham -- considering his many more years of healthy play -- as having greater career value to the Jets than Namath.

When asking who was the better player, it's always neccesary to define whether by total career value or at peak best. (Mickey Mantle was *a lot* better than Willie Mays by peak value -- Mays was *a lot* better than Mantle by career value). Obviosuly Namath had hugely greater peak value than Grantham, but Joe had barely 5 mostly healthy seasons while Grantham played at a top level in near every game for 13 years.

By career value I'd have to say #2 is Mo Lewis -- as good as any of the rest, but playing way more than any of them, also barely missing a game in 13 seasons.

*Ignoring* career length I'd say Carl McAdams, the Jets' answer to Dick Butkus and Tommy Nobis -- signed to the biggest contract for a linebaker ever! -- until he broke his ankle "falling off a curb" during a street fight outside a bar in his rookie pre-season while with the College All Stars before that damned exhibition game. ;-(

He had seven ankle surgeries, was a backup DT on the Super Bowl team, then was gone.

Today he says he doesn't even remember what the fight as about.

Who doubts the Curse of the Jets?

[oldn...@mindspring.com]

Absolutely the most unique and memorable. :-)

I still remember him lined up at MLB "roaring to go" more clearly than 99% of other Jets, and how long ago was that?

[Papa Carl]

"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:ed4b0072-448f-4821...@8g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

You don't know about Wahoo????? He challenged Sam Huff..told him NYC wasn't
big enough for theo both of them :-) He was a colorful redneck who played
LB in the beginning.

[Papa Carl]

<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:26937908.540.1317175799281.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqgn17...

YOU FORGOT A STATISTIC...don't freakin remember it...it just proves how damn
old we both are. LOL....wasn't he a trip...remember the challenge to Huff?
But, if you think back about it..he was just really ahead of his time with
all the trash talking and challenges etc. and he did it at a time when the
"Penn State" model was the rule. What he did do was bring a lot of focus
and attention to the position after Huff made the public aware of it. He
capitalized on that mystique and I think the game followed along after those
guys. That was my transition years from high school to college
playing...when we acted like those guys our college coach went ape
shit....he was totally "Penn State" model....no frills, never talk...wear a
coat and tie on game day...short hair cuts and all the rest. I loved the
Wahoo type characters back then. I used to hang out with some semi-pro
players...a good league and some really tough dudes...they all had that
swagger and mystique too...that was a throwback to the origins of football
and the factory workers and miners. Good memories. G...I'm glad you
remember it at least.

[Papa Carl]

<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:23470415.478.1317175624771.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnk41...

What about Al Atkinson? He fits somewhere in the lore for sure, if only
being the guy who to some extent controlled Namath. I met him through a
close friend. I have a friend who went to college with him...he is a very
nice guy. Haven't seen either in a while...just been out of the scene.
But...Al did run things on the Super Bowl team. And...I'd have to give a
lot of cred to Carl McAdams...loved his play.

[Papa Carl]

"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:ed4b0072-448f-4821...@8g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

McDaniel's college career was somewhat marred by injuries early on but by
his senior year, he was one of the top players on the Oklahoma team despite
being caught drinking after games and skipping classes. He played linebacker
for the American Football League's Houston Oilers and Denver Broncos but
really became a star when he was traded to the New York Jets in 1964. He was
a crowd favorite and made 23 tackles in a single game against his former
Denver Broncos. He was picked by the Miami Dolphins in the 1966 American
Football League expansion draft, as the team's major name player. During the
1968 season, he knocked out two police officers in an altercation and was
traded to the San Diego Chargers. Wahoo never played a game for San Diego
and started wrestling full-time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahoo_McDaniel

This guy was the old school tough LB that us choir boys aspired to be
like...good memories. Him and Cookie Gilchrist...and they think guys are
bad today LOL

[oldn...@mindspring.com]

On Tuesday, September 27, 2011 11:45:20 PM UTC-4, Papa Carl wrote:
> <oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:26937908.540.1317175799281.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqgn17...
> > On Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:55:15 PM UTC-4, Papa Carl wrote:
> >> "Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >> news:c0548e81-8373-4b7a...@18g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
> >> > Taking a quick break from the current Jets..
> >> >
> >> > Who's the best all around LB in Jets history ???
> >> >
> >> > 1. Grantham
> >> > 2. Lance Mehl
> >> > 3. Greg Buttle
> >> > 4. Kyle Clifton
> >> > 5. Mo Lewis
> >> > 6. Davis Harris
> >> > 7. Other
> >> >
> >> > I'm not sure... Grantham was before my time.. Do you see any one of
> >> > those guys being the easy pick ???
> >>
> >> You forgot Wahoo McDaniles????
> >
> > Absolutely the most unique and memorable. :-)
> >
> > I still remember him lined up at MLB "roaring to go" more clearly than 99%
> > of other Jets, and how long ago was that?
>
> YOU FORGOT A STATISTIC...

I do that 6% of the time.

>don't freakin remember it...it just proves how damn
> old we both are. LOL....wasn't he a trip...remember the challenge to Huff?
> But, if you think back about it..he was just really ahead of his time with
> all the trash talking and challenges etc. and he did it at a time when the
> "Penn State" model was the rule. What he did do was bring a lot of focus
> and attention to the position after Huff made the public aware of it. He
> capitalized on that mystique and I think the game followed along after those
> guys. That was my transition years from high school to college
> playing...when we acted like those guys our college coach went ape
> shit....he was totally "Penn State" model....no frills, never talk...wear a
> coat and tie on game day...short hair cuts and all the rest. I loved the
> Wahoo type characters back then. I used to hang out with some semi-pro
> players...a good league and some really tough dudes...they all had that
> swagger and mystique too...that was a throwback to the origins of football
> and the factory workers and miners. Good memories. G...I'm glad you
> remember it at least.

So far. I take my Aricept every day.

[Papa Carl]

<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:28956254.678.1317189035489.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlb4...

I'm having a dilema now trying to get a relative to take that stuff....one
of my "ancestors"....very difficult, actually a nightmare. I don't think
you need it at all...I'm sure of that.

[Michael]

On Sep 27, 10:07 pm, oldna...@mindspring.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:46:44 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> > Taking a quick break from the current Jets..
>
> > Who's the best all around LB in Jets history ???
>
> > 1. Grantham
> > 2. Lance Mehl
> > 3. Greg Buttle
> > 4. Kyle Clifton
> > 5. Mo Lewis
> > 6. Davis Harris
> > 7. Other
>
> > I'm not sure... Grantham was before my time.. Do you see any one of
> > those guys being the easy pick ???
>
> Grantham by a mile.

wasnt he an undersized guy that was not predicted to do well or
somthing like that ??? much like karl mecklenberg ??? i remember a
highlight of grantham in a games vs. the raiders. he shed two
blockers much bigger than him then went airborn and came down to form
tackle the oakland running back.

[oldn...@mindspring.com]

On Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:10:14 AM UTC-4, Papa Carl wrote:
> <oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:28956254.678.1317189035489.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqlb4...
> > On Tuesday, September 27, 2011 11:45:20 PM UTC-4, Papa Carl wrote:

> >> <old...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

I don't actually take it. (That doesn't mean I don't need it.) My mother does though. It hasn't made any difference in any way that's visible to me -- but as I can't know what she'd be like if she didn't take it, I can't really tell.

The doctors I consult with, and the research I've done to second-guess them, all agree that as to Alzheimer's it may be modestly beneficial for a limited amount of time, but is no kind of cure or even a serious remedy.

But there have been a couple of studies indicating it has significant benefits for young healthy people, improving school test scores and such. Maybe Rex should hand it out at team meetings!

The only med I'm on is for blood pressure. But I get the Jets fan bulk discount.

[oldn...@mindspring.com]

On Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:06:18 AM UTC-4, Michael wrote:

> On Sep 27, 10:07 pm, oldn...@mindspring.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:46:44 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> > > Taking a quick break from the current Jets..
> >
> > > Who's the best all around LB in Jets history ???
> >
> > > 1. Grantham
> > > 2. Lance Mehl
> > > 3. Greg Buttle
> > > 4. Kyle Clifton
> > > 5. Mo Lewis
> > > 6. Davis Harris
> > > 7. Other
> >
> > > I'm not sure... Grantham was before my time.. Do you see any one of
> > > those guys being the easy pick ???
> >
> > Grantham by a mile.
>
> wasnt he an undersized guy that was not predicted to do well or
> somthing like that ???

Yup. Flunked out of the NFL. Nobody in that league wanted him. Just like Don Maynard, Winston Hill, Len Dawson...

> much like karl mecklenberg ??? i remember a
> highlight of grantham in a games vs. the raiders. he shed two
> blockers much bigger than him then went airborn and came down to form
> tackle the oakland running back.

He didn't look like any kind of player. All he could do was play like hell.

[Papa Carl]

<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:20044737.981.1317256229861.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqgn17...

I always felt during the Kotite years those of us who had season's tickets
should have gotten a free script for Prozac. I take enough meds to fill a
pharmacy. I'm a double transplant recipient...meds will be a way of life as
long as their is life.

[Papa Carl]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9e12954d-9246-46df...@d17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
X-No-Archive: Yes

Papa, for you:

http://fwd4.me/0Ceg

A few year sago down here someone was talking about the old wrestlers
and said his favorite was Wahoo. I told him that he was a also good
football player & a wild man. Didn't he beat up two cops & got traded
from the Jets for it? I never saw him play but knew my Jets history.
I also know an old banker down here from Midland that played baseball
with him as a kid w/ GHW Bush as the coach.

I found this enjoy

http://fwd4.me/0Cej

As for the LBer. My favorite was Lance Mehl.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Thanks John. In the piece I posted it refers to him knocking out the two
police officers. That was in Miami and it got him traded by the Fins. I
posted, brought this up because I've sensed some of the younger folks seem
to think the old days of football were boring or the guys were choir boys
compared to what goes on today. I think the big difference was money...and
what money does. To play a game as violent as it can become you quite often
need some fairly crazy guys on your side. Back in the blue collar factory
days it came out quite differently. I guess for me, growing up in a very
factory, working class town I had an early association with football and
that kind of toughness. Certainly the high school team I knew was
representative of that. Plus, there were always at least a coule of semi-pro
teams around for us to follow when we were kids...just dedicated tough guys
who loved the game and wanted to keep playing. The better teams would have
guys who had gone to college, maybe even played some pro ball. I think it
was great that you could go back to the high school field on Sunday and
watch somebody else play. I messed around with that level for a couple of
years but it got in the way with coaching. Still, a lot of fun back then.

[Papa Carl]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:20c7189d-350f-4c56...@i30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
X-No-Archive: Yes

>
> Thanks John. In the piece I posted it refers to him knocking out the two
> police officers. That was in Miami and it got him traded by the Fins. I
> posted, brought this up because I've sensed some of the younger folks seem
> to think the old days of football were boring or the guys were choir boys
> compared to what goes on today. I think the big difference was money...and
> what money does. To play a game as violent as it can become you quite
> often
> need some fairly crazy guys on your side. Back in the blue collar factory
> days it came out quite differently. I guess for me, growing up in a very
> factory, working class town I had an early association with football and
> that kind of toughness. Certainly the high school team I knew was
> representative of that. Plus, there were always at least a coule of
> semi-pro
> teams around for us to follow when we were kids...just dedicated tough
> guys
> who loved the game and wanted to keep playing. The better teams would have
> guys who had gone to college, maybe even played some pro ball. I think it
> was great that you could go back to the high school field on Sunday and
> watch somebody else play. I messed around with that level for a couple of
> years but it got in the way with coaching. Still, a lot of fun back then.

Most Brits, & many ex-pats of rugby playing countries, find it odd
that for most American football players it is all over after HS.
They are different sports and it is probably a let down when you show
up, know more than the guy coaching the semipro team, get crappy
uniforms, etc.

What is interesting is that rugby which didn't go professional has
seen a drop among club play in many countries like NZ. In the old
days you played for your club and you might find yourself on the field
with one of the best players in the world. You were a wuss if you quit
early. Those days are over, except over here, but we don't have the
best players on the field. Still there are guys that play into their
30's & the real idiots into their 40's.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yeah....I always felt it was the equipment expense and not the brutality of
the game thay kept it from being played. Any working class community back
in the day had ethnic pockets where people would play soccer and even rugby
way past the high school days. But football actually got played a lot back
then. It really wasn't untill the mid 60's that it faded away. A lot of
the semi-pro teams either folded or merged into leagues like the Atlantic
Coastal Football League, or the Continental League...and some others hung
around on a smaller more regional scale. It was kind of cool for me because
some of the coaches were guys who had retired from teaching / coaching and
still wanted to be involved with football, so they were really good. And,
there was still enough of the "old" vibe to get some businesses and banks to
support it. I guess I cleaned up well, was a teacher anyway so I'd get
asked to make the trip to the business or bank to help the pitch for
funding. As I think about it...when all the local business stuff left and
became all major corporate stuff...the game left I think. I know there are
still some around, but not like it once was. You could meet the new QB game
day, and study the playbook before the game :-) I sometimes regreat I
didn't stick with that stuff longer...life got in the way. My Dad passed
away, I had young siblings...and a job.

[MacUser]

On 9/28/11 5:35 PM, oldn...@mindspring.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:06:18 AM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>> On Sep 27, 10:07 pm, oldn...@mindspring.com wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:46:44 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>>>> Taking a quick break from the current Jets..
>>>
>>>> Who's the best all around LB in Jets history ???
>>>
>>>> 1. Grantham
>>>> 2. Lance Mehl
>>>> 3. Greg Buttle
>>>> 4. Kyle Clifton
>>>> 5. Mo Lewis
>>>> 6. Davis Harris
>>>> 7. Other
>>>

What about Marvin Jones from Florida State? He was pretty good as well
and lasted approx 10 years for the NY Jets.

[JKConey]

"Michael" wrote in message
news:c0548e81-8373-4b7a...@18g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...

Grantham..... best on your list, by far, but even better was Al Atkinson.
What about Mo Lewis?


-- JK Sinrod
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

[Papa Carl]

"JKConey" <jkc...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:j67tru$dmc$1...@dont-email.me...

As I think I said before...I think Atkinson belongs on the list for
sure...maybe the best of them all.

[JKConey]

"Papa Carl" wrote in message
news:P9idnQjiNOubFBrT...@giganews.com...

"JKConey" <jkc...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:j67tru$dmc$1...@dont-email.me...
> "Michael" wrote in message
> news:c0548e81-8373-4b7a...@18g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Taking a quick break from the current Jets..
>
> Who's the best all around LB in Jets history ???
>
> 1. Grantham
> 2. Lance Mehl
> 3. Greg Buttle
> 4. Kyle Clifton
> 5. Mo Lewis
> 6. Davis Harris
> 7. Other
>
> I'm not sure... Grantham was before my time.. Do you see any one of
> those guys being the easy pick ???
>
>
>
> Grantham..... best on your list, by far, but even better was Al Atkinson.
> What about Mo Lewis?
>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As I think I said before...I think Atkinson belongs on the list for
sure...maybe the best of them all.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Glad you agree. I was too lazy to read all the replies.


-- JK Sinrod
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com

[Papa Carl]

"JKConey" <jkc...@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:j68cdk$48s$1...@dont-email.me...

__________________________________________________________________________________

Plus...he kept Namath from total self destruct mode. They roomed together.

[oldn...@mindspring.com]

Yes. By all accounts he was not just a first-class player but also a first-class person. Just what Namath needed as a roommate. I bet he could've written a book about being that -- and still could. Somebody pay him!

Those Jets are always remembered as a big offensive team but they had the best defense in the AFL. Ralph Baker, the third LB, was very good too.

The whole D was very innovative and aggressive with Walt Michaels and Buddy Ryan coaching them. Those were the days when it was really true that "offense sold tickets and defense won championships". Namath & Co got all the glory -- but the Colts got only a late 7 in SB III.

The misfortune of the D was that the offense fell apart after '69, so while it continued on at a top level for some time longer, because the team as a whole did poorly the D never got recognized for how good it was.

Lots of very good D players on that team never got the recognition they deserved. Atkinson is one. Philbin would be in the HoF if he'd played on team that had more than two good winning seasons. So would Winston Hill on the O ... but I digress.

The top O and top D overlapped for only two years in that Jets era, 68 and 69. Before then Namath and the O were lighting it up but the D couldn't stay with them. After then the D was still clamping 'em down, but the O fell into the crapper.

Then the D finally fell into the crapper and it was 25 years of misery.