A few things

[John C TX]

I wouldn't want another guy as ST coach but why can't they figure out
short kicks? BTW I think Oakland has a good ST coach as well.

Maybin is quick but he & Westerman better smarten up or that Bush run
will be a regular occurrence. Someone saw an opportunity in how we
defend.

Plaxico is a slug. McKnight & LT in the slot was promising. I never
thought Logan Payne coming back would be that big a deal. I won't be
shocked if Plaxico is gone before week 16.

I didn't focus on Kenrick Ellis but even on a play where he made a
tackle he got pushed back on the line. Anyone watch him more
carefully?

[Michael]

I was at the game... i was excited to see k. ellis come into the
game. i was not excited watching him play. i had my binoculars
trained on him. for a big guy, he has little "push". i could be
wrong, but i dont think he's going to be much more than a guy that
takes up space. a one gapper who eats like a two gapper. no way is
he going to be any sort of a disruptive inside player.

and i agree 100 % about Plax. He's a dud. he gets little to no
separation and he has no moves. edwards was better by a good margin.
the best he can do is take a db along with him. the fish did not even
use a safety to help. one db took him out of the game.

[graybeard]

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 07:52:07 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd...@verizon.net>
wrote:

One thing I have noticed about Burress is that he seems to play soft
after the catch. I recall numerous instances where he dove into the
ground when he saw tacklers getting close.
--
graybeard

[Señor Patriots]

On Oct 18, 11:51 am, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 07:52:07 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net>

He's no Welker I guess.

To me it's a great waste of human potential to not keep your body in
top shape the way Jerry Rice did. He proved that you can be
productive well into your thirties even after an ACL problem. It's
about heart and the work ethic. Apparently guys like Moss and Burress
were born with so much talent that they failed to get the message.

An aside: It could be that the conservative play calling is greatly
affected by his underperformance. I mean you have one top receiver
and a good TE, but teams could double those guys and make targets
pretty hard to find.

[graybeard]

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 16:02:53 -0700 (PDT), Señor Patriots
<roam...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>To me it's a great waste of human potential to not keep your body in
>top shape the way Jerry Rice did. He proved that you can be
>productive well into your thirties even after an ACL problem. It's
>about heart and the work ethic. Apparently guys like Moss and Burress
>were born with so much talent that they failed to get the message.

This has been happening now for a number of years in all sports, and the
NBA is the prime example. Athletes in just about every sport are bigger,
faster, and stronger than athletes of only a couple of generations ago,
and they feel that their natural ability is all they need, so they don't
put in the time and effort to be better. Some NBA players today are
paragons of athleticism, yet they can't play defense and can't really
shoot all that well except in streaks. Larry Bird, hardly anyone's Mr.
Universe, was an excellent defensive player, and could shoot out the
lights because of a work ethic that kept him in the gym practicing
hundreds of 3 point shots for hours. Too many pro players today would
rather go out to the clubs than put in the practice time. You wonder
what some of these guys could really accomplish if they put their minds
and hearts into it.
--
graybeard

[graybeard]

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:04:30 -0400, buRford <buR...@buR.ford.com>
wrote:

>I was thinking about Dave DeBusschere, too.
>Not much of an athlete, but worked his butt off to be a great player.

Exactly, and there were probably many more like that before the NBA
became nothing but a slammin' jammin' video game. I simply can't watch
it any more. The NFL is headed in that direction with its increasing
emphasis on passing and big play scoring. That's what has turned WR's
into media stars. When the NFL morphs into the Arena League I will
probably stop watching pro football too.
--
graybeard

[John C TX]

On Oct 18, 9:04 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> I was thinking about Dave DeBusschere, too.
> Not much of an athlete, but worked his butt off to be a great player.

Shockingly I will disagree.

:)

DeBuscherre was a great athlete. He pitched for the White Sox. He
was a good shooter --here I will agree he worked hard -- & improved as
shooter each year after joining the Knicks. With Bradley, Frazier,
Lucas, etc. people forget that #22 could shoot from the outside.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/debusda01.html

[oldn...@mindspring.com]

On Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:04:30 PM UTC-4, buRford wrote:

> I was thinking about Dave DeBusschere, too.
> Not much of an athlete, but worked his butt off to be a great player.

DeBusschere was smart as hell too. He was player-head coach of the Pistons at age 24 before coming to the Knicks, the youngest HC in NBA history.

You can't coach brains into 'em.

That Knicks team was probably the smartest team in pro sports ever. DeBusschere, *two* Rhodes scholars in Bradley (later Senator) and McMillan (later Congressman), Phil Jackson, Willis Reed was later an NBA HC and GM, Dick Barnett, Phd, and Jerry Lucas who used to entertain the press after the game by memorizing pages out of the phone book. Walt Frazier was the dummy. They don't make teams like that anymore.

As a kid that team made me a big fan of basketball because I thought that was how the game was played. The thinking player' sport. Kids believe such stupid things. From that to the Isiah Knicks....

[oldn...@mindspring.com]

On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 1:03:12 PM UTC-4, John C TX wrote:

Yes, DeB was a great athlete, a very smart player, and played 48 minutes harder than anbody. But I also remember him relaxing after the game smoking cigarettes and drinking beer while he talked to reporters. Times change.

That team really played like a team, t-e-a-m. I remember one game when Bradley poured in 50 pts or something like that and everyone asked "what happened?"

The other players said, "We get so many fans asking, 'Bradley was a record scorer in college, why can't he score more than 12 points in the pros?' we decided to give him the ball tonight just to show 'em he can."

I try to imagine that conversation about Kobe or Carmelo.

[graybeard]

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 19:13:59 -0400, buRford <buR...@buR.ford.com>
wrote:

>I remember when we traded for him, he was the final piece of the puzzle. I think it was
>Bellamy we traded for him... kinda fuzzy ;)
>
>It's funny, because normally you'd have a couple of favorite players, but that team, every
>one of them was a favorite. Loved Cazzie's jump shot... every one of 'em had their
>specialty. And that team made Dee-Fence *fashionable.*
>First game I ever went to, was at the Old Garden... Bradley's first game.
>About 20 years ago, I was working on a project in St Croix. One day, I went into a
>restaurant for breakfast, & there was Clyde, reading a newpaper. Went over to him... he
>invited me to sit. Had a great breakfast & conversation... great guy, definitely not a
>dummy ;). He has a house down there.
>
>We were lucky to have experienced that team.
>Yup, we were spoiled by that team... and another team, can't remember their name ;)

That team was the first to get me watching NBA basketball. They defined
teamwork. Every starter knew how to pass the ball, and was not afraid to
do so, because they were smart and unselfish. Reed taking a lob at the
center of the foul line facing away from the basket, and then throwing a
perfect bounce pass behind himself to a cutter going down the lane for a
layup, was a thing of beauty. Those guys also knew how to box out for
rebounds. Today all anyone wants to do is throw up 3 point attempts
while everyone else on the team stands around and watches.
--
graybeard

[Tutor]

On Oct 20, 10:25 am, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 19:13:59 -0400, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com>

> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:36:54 -0700 (PDT), oldna...@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>On Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:04:30 PM UTC-4, buRford wrote:

> graybeard- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You guys are making me pine for the NBA I grew up loving. NBA is very
sad now. I was 11 when my Knicks shocked the world with that 1st
championship. sigh

[John C TX]

On Oct 19, 6:02 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:

> He was a smart, hard-working mutha, & continually improved... he was a great player.
> But a great athlete?
> Pitching, especially back then, half of the pitchers had pot-bellies.
> As for basketball, DD compensated for his lack of athleticism, with his smarts, perpetual
> motor, & work-ethic.

I hear what you are saying but I have been lucky to know a few guys
who played pro baseball (&f some football as well). What amazes me
about the baseball players were how good they were at every sport. I
know some pitchers had boilermakers back then but put them in modern
times w/ today's salary, fitness & nutrition & they fit right in.

I still play a lot of basketball and there are guys that played HS
hoops, Div 1 -DIII college and it is just so obvious that the filter
at each level separates out the athletes. You make the NBA & can pitch
in the majors you are a great athlete.

[John C TX]

On Oct 19, 6:13 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:36:54 -0700 (PDT), oldna...@mindspring.com wrote:

> >On Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:04:30 PM UTC-4, buRford wrote:

> I remember when we traded for him, he was the final piece of the puzzle.  I think it was
> Bellamy we traded for him... kinda fuzzy ;)
>
> It's funny, because normally you'd have a couple of favorite players, but that team, every
> one of them was a favorite.  Loved Cazzie's jump shot... every one of 'em had their
> specialty.  And that team made Dee-Fence *fashionable.*
> First game I ever went to, was at the Old Garden... Bradley's first game.
> About 20 years ago, I was working on a project in St Croix.  One day, I went into a
> restaurant for breakfast, & there was Clyde, reading a newpaper.  Went over to him... he
> invited me to sit.  Had a great breakfast & conversation... great guy, definitely not a
> dummy ;).  He has a house down there.
>
> We were lucky to have experienced that team.
> Yup, we were spoiled by that team... and another team, can't remember their name ;)

B, I was 9 years old & saw my football team, baseball team, & hoop
team win a championship within 15-16 months of each other. I thought
being a sports fan is so easy.

Funny thing is I enjoyed the 72- 73 team even more. I loved the
Pearl. I used to love Phil Jackson but didn't like Lucas for some
reasonIn the conference finals vs Boston I think he shot like 23/24.
He had great numbers off the bench in the playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksph01.html

[John C TX]

Dave, it was fun & I miss it but the many people talk about
fundamentals being lost while the players today are so much more
skilled with the ball. They just don't play as smart.