Jets offense... Who's the real culprit ???
Michael
the Jets inconsistent and erratic Offense.
First… For Shott’s sake, let’s have a look back in time.
With Pennington at QB, the fan's regular complaint was "Chad check's
down". AGAIN !!!
We did not hear much in the way of complaints relating to scheme.
Just “Pop-Gun”
The problem that most of us agreed on: Pennington's arm and no real
offensive design
problems. Good to keep in mind, that there was a fair amount of
screens being thrown. Absolutely no shortage of underneath routs.
With Favre, the early complaint was that Favre and the wr's were not
on the same page. Favre the rock star dictating his own schedule and
missing camp. After a few games, that got cleared up and the offense
worked very well until Favre's injury. No fingers pointed to Schotty.
It was Favre's late arrival and subsequent late season injury. There
were no real design or play calling problems at all. For a good
stretch, the offense “off the hook”.
Now… With the offense in front of Sanchez the fan's regular
complaints: Odd play calling,
predictable play calling, questionable play design, questionable game
plan, interruptions in game rhythm.
The two most considered reasons.
1. Sanchez sucks
2. Schotty sucks.
I’m really beginning to give a third possible reason(s) more and more
weight. As soon as Sanchez got there, the entire offense changed.
But…At the same time Sanchez got there AND…So did Rex. Rex's early
presser: “ground and pound”, “protect the qb”. It appears to be
obvious, that Rex dictated to Schotty that he re-invent his offense to
be a run
heavy offense that protects the QB. Given all of this, it suggests
the real problem with the Jets offense.
It goes like this…
1. Sanchez's ball placement and timing is not good. Couple that with
his relatively low release point and it adds up to significant
disadvantage in the short game. Add that to the components of Schott's
offense that calls for the QB to be a computer brain at the LOS during
protracted snap counts. Sanchez is a streak school yard player, Not
Pennington or Manning.
2. Rex is not a sophisticated offensive mind, yet he wants to swim in
Schott's soup. He insisted that the offense change its identity.
3. Schotty is trying to make square pegs fit into round holes.
Another offensive coach could do it, but not Schotty. Schotty has
"his system" and ways of doing things that has worked in the past.
Unlike Rex's defensive mind, Schotty's offensive mind malfunctions
badly when he is asked to leave his comfort zone. He is simply not
that sort of ideal coach that can improvise his ideas and scheme as
needed to fit the qualities of the manpower he has on tap. This is
all compounded by the fact that the HC is getting involved and
probably pushing Shotty deeper into the woods.
Final diagnosis: Rex’s offensive inexperience, Sanchez’s weaknesses
and Schotty’s inability to overcome what he has to work with in both a
HC and QB combine to make an offensive shit stew. Shotty has run some
good offense in the past, but he does not do well if he has to “go off
campus”. IMHO, this is why the Jets offense does so many things that
leave us all scratching our heads. Rex involvement and Sanchez's
flaws have both put Shotty outside of his limited programming.
Prognosis: If Rex and Schotty… ESPECIALLY SCHOTTY are swift enough to
realize the qualities of their players, they have a chance to run an
offensive game that will produce. IMHO, they should be running
something like the Redskins Theisman offense. Heavy power running,
but yet, take advantage of a QB that has good ball skills, excellent
mobility and an uncanny ability to connect on long balls at big
times.. You get your qb running around and throw vertical when the
defense is stacking the gaps. I could be wrong here, but Sanchez is
not a real west coast QB. He could improve on things, but his release
point, ball placement and timing on underneath stuff is disadvantaged.
If Schotty and Rex don’t see the light, the prognosis for the Jet’s
offense is DOA.
Papa Carl
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1c503e98-5d4c-45cd...@p13g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
X-No-Archive: Yes
I am blaming Papa.
Will look at this later in the week.
I blame everything on Texas...and everyone in it..no matter where they
started out.
Actually, I do not buy that Rex is not sophisticated from an offensive stand
point..you can't coach defense that well and not understand what you are
scheming against. It isn't any one thing, Sanchez was way too green to put
into that position, OMHO, and Schott is not a true OC..not ready, and got
where he is because of his pedigree...but a lot of the league is like that.
Michael
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1c503e98-5d4c-45cd...@p13g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
papa... i'm not sure about a guy who is a very good coach on one side
of the ball being an ideal coach on the other side of the ball or a
good hc over the whole ball of wax for that matter. of course, you
understand things, but you are not a specialist. any dr knows basic
anatomy...not all of them are specialists in a given area. i expect it
is the same with coaches. the higher the level, the greater the
sophistication and subsequent need for specialists
Michael
btw... when I say "you" I am not reffering to you personally.... I
mean any given coach
Papa Carl
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:6c432b1f-8c17-4931...@gc3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Think about it...that logic says there are no good HC's...because in the
game today they all specialize. Hell, way back when I was coaching in HS it
was all specialization, we even had a separate kicking coach. In my last
job I never once coached anything but defense, and almost all linebackers
then, but to understand that you have to understand the offense and before
that time I spent a lot of time coaching offense...I'm sure Rex knows what
he needs to know....maybe he just likes Schott.
Papa Carl
Why do you hate Mexicans?
Oh...I don't, not at all...I think they should get Texas back. That would
solve a lot of problems, just build the wall a little further North.
Michael
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
im not diggin' it, man...
buddy ryan = great DC
buddy ryan = not so good HC
buddy ryan = laugh attack if suggested as an OC
lots of pro coaches can be plugged into that equasion. LOTS
Remember in the Colts playoff game.... They needed to get closer for
the game critical fied goal. Rex said he did not care how the got
closer, but he was sure he wanted to. Could you imagine Walsh saying
that ??? Walsh would have the exact play ready three plays before he
was in those circumstances. Rex is not an offensive minded coach.
John C TX
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:91d9c8c6-ec8e-4873...@r33g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
I think based om demographics they would have to build it somewhere in
Maine but if they want the just the original land you are going to
lose some blue states & as well as red states as well as 25% of the
national GDP & between TX & CA 67% of the fertilizer with teh other
1/3 coming out of NY, DC & Boston.
:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Primera_Republica_Federal_1825.PNG
Quite a bit of dirt.....
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
what about my original post ???
MZ
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
I agree with this. At the risk of pissing off a certain Ravens fan,
Rex is a very smart football guy -- unlike his predecessor who was
milking his former boss's reputation. I actually think Rex is one of
the top head coaches in the entire league, but that's just me.
Anyway, I think there are guys who are definitely better on one side
of the ball than the other, so this sort of proves Michael's idea
correct to some degree, but it's hard to fathom how one could be an
expert at defense and completely inept at offense. These are not
unrelated topics -- offense relies on knowing defense and vice versa.
Belichick, in my view, is one of the better offensive minds in
football. This is a guy who was heralded defensive "genius" for
years, which I guess has some truth to it if you look back at the
Giants teams, etc, but he's consistently fielded a top tier offense
for nearly a decade now, and has put together some of the most
innovative offensive game plans I've seen in recent years (e.g.
opening day 2002, spread formation from the opening whistle -- no one
was doing that back then, not even the Rams). Yeah, he's had Tom Brady
his whole tenure, but he's also had Matt Cassel, the worst receiving
corps in football in '06, no running game most years, and no offensive
coordinator half the time. One of the things I think makes him
successful as an offensive coach is that he understands what opposing
defenses are doing and what their weaknesses are. I would be
surprised if Rex isn't capable of making the same translation.
Anyway, I don't like Schott because I don't like his playcalling and
his personnel usage. I think he's a problem. Is he the main
problem? Maybe not. But he's a problem.
Another possibility to consider is maybe some of you are overrating
some of the players on the offensive side of the ball. I see lots of
people talking up guys like LT, DBrick, Greene, Edwards, Keller, Brad
Smith (ok, that's just John...). I might be guilty of that too (I've
been a big fan of Leon Washington, Thomas Jones, Jerricho Cotchery,
etc). These are all good players, but every one of them has some
pretty significant drawbacks to their game. There are 31 other teams
who have a bunch of good players too, so maybe these good players
aren't as special as we've previously considered. The pessimistic
view of the Jets offense would say that they have a green QB who
hasn't yet shown that he's a mainstay in this league, an aging RB who
declines over time every season, a TE who has all the tools except the
ability to consistently catch balls, an inconsistent WR group, and an
offensive line that had JAGs at LG and RT for most of last year. :)
RävNsfän ®
*If Schotty and Rex don’t see the light, the prognosis for the Jet’s
offense is DOA.
You would have spared the ng the tire burn smell had you just listened and
then "cut and pasted" my original claim that as the HC, Rex Ryan would/will
cost the Jest unless he changes his mindset and demeanor in being a head
coach. I'm happy to have been able to enlighten you despite all your nose
thumbing and breath holding.
----
~Drew
"Talk is cheap ...lets go play"
Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts
Michael
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
he already cost the jets two consecutive trips to the AFC champ game.
with a rookie qb and patch work defensive line no less. what will he
cost us next ??? may be a superbowl. as i suspected to begin with,
your infatuation with ryan and subsequent appearances in here were
born of your disappointment that he left the ravens and took two
excellent players with him. did you have a jim leonhard jersey ???
last time your claim was that rex was going to bring the jets down
because he was bent on running buddy's defense. he has done nothing
of the kind. that demonstrates you are ignorance about the jets. im
compelled to believe you came in here to troll away your anger over
the best defensive mind in the game leaving town. trolling against
rex is a salve for your wounds. the jets problem is not rex. it is
an erratic QB and an incompetent OC. it has been my guess all along
that schotty is woody’s guy and rex has him as a tag along. of
course, that would not be non sequitur to your therapy session. what
have you been good for past half truths and personal assaults ???
Papa Carl
That is not what Rex said...he told the QB to do what he felt he wanted to
do...that is a coach who knows what is best in a clutch situation...let the
QB do what he is most comfortable with.
Papa Carl
"MZ" <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:a069fbcf-3268-4010...@gh5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
Very good observations.
Papa Carl
:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Primera_Republica_Federal_1825.PNG
I didn't say go back to the "1949 Armistice" guidelines...just give what is
Texas today back :-)
Grinch
>
> Another possibility to consider is maybe some of you are overrating
> some of the players on the offensive side of the ball. I see lots of
> people talking up guys like LT, DBrick, Greene, Edwards, Keller, Brad
> Smith (ok, that's just John...). I might be guilty of that too (I've
> been a big fan of Leon Washington, Thomas Jones, Jerricho Cotchery,
> etc). These are all good players, but every one of them has some
> pretty significant drawbacks to their game. There are 31 other teams
> who have a bunch of good players too, so maybe these good players
> aren't as special as we've previously considered. The pessimistic
> view of the Jets offense would say that they have a green QB who
> hasn't yet shown that he's a mainstay in this league, an aging RB who
> declines over time every season, a TE who has all the tools except the
> ability to consistently catch balls, an inconsistent WR group, and an
> offensive line that had JAGs at LG and RT for most of last year. :)
Yes, this.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
Papa… Rex said exactly just that. It is one tape. Can you imagine
Walsh or Tuna on the sidelines not knowing exactly what they want to
do at a moment like that ??? Rex is not an ideal offensive coach and
that problem is compounded by him having Shotty as his back-stop.
When a former offensive lineman goes into the pro ranks as a coach,
he’ll almost certainly start out as an offensive line coach as a
matter of course. When a former defensive back becomes an NFL coach,
he does not start as an offensive line coach. An offensive tackle
knows what a corner back does, but he is much better suited to coach
offensive lineman simple because he played the position and was
coached at the position. Rex and Rob Ryan were raised with defense in
their blood. It is not a coincidence that they both became defensive
coaches. If you were given Bill Walsh and Buddy Ryan and asked to
pick which one would be your OC and which one would be your DC, how
would you arrange it ??? You say you were involved in playing and
coaching and so I believe you, but I am bowled over that you don’t
acknowledge in the least bit that some people’s training and
experience makes them more likely to be better coach on one side of
the ball vs. the other. I think this is just your Jurassic tendencies
coming out. You played the game when football was football.
Michael
Mark... The larger point of my post was this... When Schotty ran an
offense for Chad and Favre, we did not have so many of the problems we
have now. I am talking about play calling, use of manpower and over
all game plan. I'm saying that with Rex and expecially Sanchez,
Schotty is lost. His offense worked with Chad and Favre, but he cant
work around Sanchez.
> Another possibility to consider is maybe some of you are overrating
> some of the players on the offensive side of the ball. I see lots of
> people talking up guys like LT, DBrick, Greene, Edwards, Keller, Brad
> Smith (ok, that's just John...). I might be guilty of that too (I've
> been a big fan of Leon Washington, Thomas Jones, Jerricho Cotchery,
> etc). These are all good players, but every one of them has some
> pretty significant drawbacks to their game. There are 31 other teams
> who have a bunch of good players too, so maybe these good players
> aren't as special as we've previously considered. The pessimistic
> view of the Jets offense would say that they have a green QB who
> hasn't yet shown that he's a mainstay in this league, an aging RB who
> declines over time every season, a TE who has all the tools except the
> ability to consistently catch balls, an inconsistent WR group, and an
> offensive line that had JAGs at LG and RT for most of last year. :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mark... The Jets have good to excellent guys on their offense. Keller,
Santonio and Edwards alone should ensure a good passing game given
that the Jets offensive line is good too. They also have a pass
catching back. No matter what the quality of your players... Good or
bad... None of that has ANYTHING to do with an offensive coach that
pulls odd plays out of thin air, fails to use they guys he has as best
fits their ability, fails to recognize a strenght or weakness in a
defense... And... Most importantly... Schotty seems to have
malfunctioned to a level not seen before when Sanchez and Rex got
there. IMHO... Schotty cant improvise. From a football perspective
there is no cognitive thinking from him. He's got his template that
that is that. IMHO... That is the problem. You throw a bunch of
journeymen at Rex and he'll run a good defense. He can observe, make
conclusions and adjust things on a dime. Schotty has a cookie cutter
brain.
Michael
> play special teams on both sides of the ball and he can run the
> wildcat. One year I remember when he touched the ball by either
> running it or catching he averaged 9 yards a touch. Some people think
> that when he goes in motion it waste of time. I can't tell you how
> many times Jones or Washington would bust a long one because Smith was
> in motion. Maybe it was a waste of energy but maybe it was beacuse it
> was effective. The guy still can't catch so how much do you pay him?
>
> >I might be guilty of that too (I've
> > been a big fan of Leon Washington, Thomas Jones, Jerricho Cotchery,
> > etc). These are all good players, but every one of them has some
> > pretty significant drawbacks to their game. There are 31 other teams
> > who have a bunch of good players too, so maybe these good players
> > aren't as special as we've previously considered. The pessimistic
> > view of the Jets offense would say that they have a green QB who
> > hasn't yet shown that he's a mainstay in this league, an aging RB who
> > declines over time every season, a TE who has all the tools except the
> > ability to consistently catch balls, an inconsistent WR group, and an
> > offensive line that had JAGs at LG and RT for most of last year. :)
>
> it 2nd & 10 instead of 2nd & 1.
>
> I think it is a combination of problems including Schott. The 2 OL
> you mention are part of it although Slausson was better than I hoped
> for & Woody was worse.
Slauson got better each game. He's really good when he gets a hold of
a defender. He'll never been like Faneca as far as pulling, but he's
a good no frills mauler. I dont know if he will improve on his
agility, but at the very least, he'll be a great guy to have for depth
should they come across an upgrade.
>Whatever we gained with getting rid of Faneca's
> 4 sacks we lost every time Slasson didn't make it to his block when he
> pulled but that pony is out of the barn.
>
> The use of TE's is just abysmal and the waste of roster space that
> cost us Woodhead. My theory is that is entirely Rex as the extra OL
> playing TE never arrived until 1/2 was through year one of Rex.
>
> Sanchez is playing like a young QB. His numbers are on par with Elway
> & Aikman. If he improves comparable to last year we have a huge
> advantage. Some of you guys don't like the play calling and you may
> be right. I am still waiting for someone to show me the OC who can be
> considered good in this league without a good to adequate QB. Papa
> likes Henning and what he did with Testaverde & Doug Williams are a
> good testament to his ability but they were veteran QB's with
> strengths. He sucked with Henne in Miami not because he was bad coach
> but because Henne is young --he may grow old & still suck-- so he not
> only had to coach around his weaknesses but teach him the game as
> well.
>
> As for Rex I am with Papa & Mark. You can't understand one side of
> the ball w/o understanding both sides.
Papa Carl
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>> I didn't say go back to the "1949 Armistice" guidelines...just give what
>> is
>> Texas today back :-)
>
>
> :)
Didn't Chicago Democrats invent that? Chris Krispie Creme up here is
attempting some of that I think....I sort of hope he runs for
President...get him the Hell out of NJ....now Michael will flame me :-)
Papa Carl
Well....when watching other teams I often think, "How come the Jets guys
don't look this good?" I'm not so sure how great some of them really are.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
When I watch the Jets offense I see a two players that are in a class
of their own. That would be Mangold & Santonio. The way Mangold uses
a defender's own weight and inertia against them is almost
unbelievable. Like a martial arts guy almost. Mangold hardly ever
pushes people off the ball, but he gets them where he wants them
bettet than any other center I have ever seen. I saw that early on
from watching Mangold and felt that he was going to be a year in and
year out pro bowler. IMHO, he's the most important guy on the entire
team. Speaking of centers, the new guy over in Cleveland, Alex Mack is
going to be gushed over by fans and commentators for being an elite
center. Mack is more of a bulldozer though, and not an uber
technician like Mangold. Other guys on the Jets offense may not be
elite, but they are top talent. That would include Brick, Brandon
Moore, Keller, and even LT. Green has not done much, Cotch has been
pedestrian as of late, Smith is just a utility guy, Slauson has been
admirable but incomplete and Woody sucked more often than not. That
is how it looked from the mezzanines. More good players than bad and
even a few elite.
Papa Carl
I do miss the Mezzanine...used to be row 6 section 211 old stadium...for
many years....I do miss it, even the suffering :-)
Michael
the mezz is my favorite place to sit. when we were at shea my father
was the ticket holder and we had covered seats in the mez. i had the
tickets transfered to my name five years ago. at giants stadium, we
sat in the mezz as well. in the new stadium, i started out as upper
prime with my first selection to avoid the psl, but changed to the
mezz when they lowered the PSL cost. my seats are in the corner of
the endzone and back in row ten. those four corner mezz endzone
sections are the only outdoor covered seats in the stadium. i took
them for that reason only. it rained more than half the home games
this season, and i was glad to be fully covered. they new stadium is
clean, but it is so gray and sterile. like a big giant gray cash
register with no flair of any kind. the should bring it to life be
decorating it with big green and white neon signs all over the place
and make it light up like broadway. it also pisses me off that you
cant circumnaviagate the stadium unless you are all the way up top.
RävNsfän ®
On May 31, 10:12 pm, "R vNsf n " <noemai...@nospam4me.org> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:86f4c149-456c-41e8...@j23g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
> *If Schotty and Rex don t see the light, the prognosis for the Jet s
> offense is DOA.
>
> You would have spared the ng the tire burn smell had you just listened and
> then "cut and pasted" my original claim that as the HC, Rex Ryan
> would/will
> cost the Jest unless he changes his mindset and demeanor in being a head
> coach. I'm happy to have been able to enlighten you despite all your nose
> thumbing and breath holding.
>
> ----
>
> ~Drew
>
*he already cost the jets two consecutive trips to the AFC champ game.
with a rookie qb and patch work defensive line no less. what will he
cost us next ??? may be a superbowl.
If you feel Rex has cost you two AFC Championships, even though the Jets
backed into the first opportunity, then certainly Rex has already cost you
two SB appearances. Maybe counting to ten prior to responding to any of my
posts will help you think your responses out further towards a more logical
conclusion.
*as i suspected to begin with,
your infatuation with ryan and subsequent appearances in here were
born of your disappointment that he left the ravens and took two
excellent players with him. did you have a jim leonhard jersey ???
Jim Leonard is on your team? Funny... I did not see him play last season. Oh
wait, ...he did play in that opening 2010 game that my Ravens beat your Jest
in their brand spankin' new townhouse shared with the Giants didn't he?
Yeah I remember now, ...that was the game that Rex had to call all the fans
up during the week to beg them to show up for their opening home game and
that is sad.
Odd that the Ravens didn't miss a beat without any of those former Ravens
you mentioned. But then they weren't the cream of our crop as our own
appearance in the 2010 playoffs proved.
*last time your claim was that rex was going to bring the jets down
because he was bent on running buddy's defense. he has done nothing
of the kind.
That doesn't mean he won't. You read a few local feel good stories about Rex
and you think you know him like a book. You are in for a rude awakening and
be assured that I'll be their to point that out for you.
that demonstrates you are ignorance about the jets.
I never claimed to have an overwhelming knowledge of the Jest. I don't need
any such knowledge as I know Rex Ryan (more than a mere two seasons) and
that is all I need to know regarding where Rex will, or will not, take the
Jest as their HC.
*im compelled to believe you came in here to troll away your anger over
the best defensive mind in the game leaving town.
Fat-boy just may be the 3rd best defensive mind in the game today but that
doesn't mean jack since he is a HC. That is just another distraction from
his actually running the "entire team" well, instead of just that one
particular aspect of it. You even complain about Rex's offense so deal with
that mickey. Rex has no clue beyond defense and the Jest coaching staff is
his call.
trolling against
rex is a salve for your wounds.
I suspect that manufactured non-fact also materialized in your wettest dream
to date mickey. I posted in this ng asking a few overly zealous Jest fans to
withold the saviour status they were heaping upon a yet untried Rex Ryan as
a HC. At least until he actually coached a regular season down in one game
as HC and who knows, possibly accomplish something more exceptional than
backing into a playoff scenario in the first season.
You were being defensive and a lout from the onset. To counter my post
before Rex in fact did coach a down you made numerous bogus statements based
on assumptions you made from stories in your local press. You then called
them facts so as to claim Rex Ryan the architect of the 2000 Ravens NFL
record setting SB defense. That among several bogus accomplishments you also
attributed to him Rex, without any proof of course. One manufactured claim
of proof was attributted to an interview wherein Ray Lewis is aledged to be
stating that Rex was the creator and the Ravens defense his creation to deal
with now. Being the consumate professional and gentleman that is Ray Lewis,
Ravens fans know that Ray was simply offering Rex kudos in the same manner
that he did when sending 5 other Ravens coordinators off to be HC's during
his 15 year tenor leading the Ravens defense.
about Rex
the jets problem is not rex. it is
an erratic QB and an incompetent OC. it has been my guess all along
that schotty is woody’s guy and rex has him as a tag along.
Rex is the HC and he alone is responsible for picking his coordinators
because his own job status relies on their success. He had and has no
obligation to kept any coach that he did not feel was adequate. Rex
obviously does feel his OC and QB are adequate. I'd wager that Rex doesn't
give a damn about how you feel about that.
* of
course, that would not be non sequitur to your therapy session. what
have you been good for past half truths and personal assaults ???
You insult me and accuse me of doing exactly what it is you are doing
...hello ?
You being full of bullshitter is one thing, ...no one in these forums
however respects " do as I say ...not as I do, hypocrites like you.
Papa Carl
A friend of mine has season tickets for the Eagles...he gave them to me for
the pre-season game last year and will take me this year for the regular
season game with the Jets...that place is NICE...I was very impressed and it
is easy in and out too...but the same deal...you can not go around it from
inside of it, at least I couldn't see how. I only go there with my son...he
has that look of the guy you do NOT want to mess with, plus he has the badge
and the stuff that goes with it. I expected The Linc to be the same idiotic
crowd as The Vet...not at all...quite different and a very well controlled
place...the areas where you move are huge. I've yet to get to The
Meadowlands...I did love going to the old stadium. Those seats in 211 were
just under the cover of the overhang....came from my wife's cousin who had
them from day one there.
Michael
drew... how do you know that ??? there are some fair indications that
he got stuck with shotty. the coach does what the owner wants. fffs,
man... look at the cowboys and the raiders. you can almost give any
cowboys or raiders HC a pass based on the owners gumming up the
works. the jets owner has proven he is ready, willing and able to
jump out in front of the coach. how do you think the jets wound up
with favre. you know your team well enough, but you dont seem to know
the jets too well.
>Rex obviously does feel his OC and QB are adequate. I'd wager that Rex doesn't
> give a damn about how you feel about that.
>
> * of
> course, that would not be non sequitur to your therapy session. what
> have you been good for past half truths and personal assaults ???
>
> You insult me and accuse me of doing exactly what it is you are doing
> ...hello ?
>
> You being full of bullshitter is one thing, ...no one in these forums
> however respects " do as I say ...not as I do, hypocrites like you.
>
> --
>
> ~Drew
>
> "Talk is cheap ...lets go play"
> Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
yep... you say rex is bent on running daddy's defense and it is going
to drive the jets to destruction... you know the jets allright... no
bs there... clearly, you watch every game...
why dont you go an list your jim leonhard ravens jersey on ebay. may
be you'll feel better if you get some of your money back.
MZ
I was pretty critical of the offensive playcalling when Favre was the
quarterback, although I think I dumped a lot of it on Mangini at the
time. I guess when we say "Schott" it's shorthand for whoever's
responsible for the playcalling. General strategy ultimately falls on
the head coach; play design maybe a mixture of both; play-to-play
calls are typically the duty of the OC. It's the latter that I have
the biggest problem with. But I don't mean to completely absolve Rex.
In tennis there's a statistic called "unforced errors". I wonder what
the Jets offense's "unforced errors" looks like in comparison to other
teams? Hard to quantify in football, I know.
MZ
Mangold is probably the best center in the league. I have my doubts
that Santonio could even crack the top 10-15 at his position. He's
good, but he's not Andre Johnson. I also don't think Brick, Moore,
Keller, or LT belong on any list of top talent players at their
positions. This is what I mean by some of you overrating the home
town players. These are valuable players, no question, but every
team's got them. So, despite my issues with Schott, we're comparing
him to the rest of the league's OCs, many of whom have comparable or
even better players to work with.
On a related note, I'll be really interested to see how McDaniels
fares this year with that young talent in St. Louis. They actually
have the pieces to put together a passing game now, and if Jackson can
stay healthy he may actually become productive again. They were
ranked 26th in offensive scoring last year. I'm predicting top 10
this year. Would anybody make the same sort of prediction for
Schott? I know I wouldn't.
Michael
santonio's raw numbers dont put him in the elite tier of players, but
his "play making ability" does, IMHO. at the end of the season, i
favored keeping edwards over santonio, but i changed my mind after
watching the games again. i think when rex said that he might be the
best guy on the field, there is some truth to it. his flat out
ability is fantastic. i'll have to think and watch more before I flat
out dissagree with you. if you recall, i faught you over the 43 vs.
34 defense as far as what is the better scheme. when i consider the
two now, i cant fathom why i thought the 43 was superior.
as for mcdaniels... i am also very interested to see how he does. the
denver passing game was very good, and i'd wager mcdanies was a huge
part of that. major bad luck for him with defensive injuries and lack
of manpower in the running game. i dont know a lot about what went on
there, but there are some indications that mcdaniels is a good guy
with a few personality quirks. that might have cost him as far as the
owner not wanting him sitting in the big chair. also... i dont know
if he was behind it as i have read that he was... but tebow was a huge
mistake. perhaps that helped to get him scalped. i'm betting that
the rams will have a fantastic offense under josh
RävNsfän ®
*yep... you say rex is bent on running daddy's defense and it is going
to drive the jets to destruction... you know the jets allright... no
bs there... clearly, you watch every game...
No I did not make such a statement mickey and I just explained above that my
only knowledge of the Jist is my extensive and expert knowledge of Rex Ryan
and what he will and will not achieve as their HC if his demeanor and
attitude changes.
Your unreasonable misinterpritation of my clearly stated opinions and facts
however suggests that you are having great difficulty comprehending written
English. Are you visiting the U.S. from China, Pakistan, Yemen, ...or are
you just another border frog?
*why dont you go an list your jim leonhard ravens jersey on ebay.
I don't waste my money on the jerseys of any players I know will not make
our defensive roster as a starter.
*maybe you'll feel better if you get some of your money back.
Even your smack is weak and full of bullshit. The Ravens are very good at
finding high grade "temporary" players on our defense as back-ups to tide
themselves over in the event that a veteran goes down. Leonard played well
but wasn't going to unseat Ed Reed as a starter. So we lost nothing by not
offering Leonard a competitive bid to stay. Same goes for Bart Scott. He was
awesome next to Ray Lewis, on his own he was quite ordinary and ordinary
will never make it in a Ravens defense.
When I posted about Rex I also stated that Leonard would get hurt a lot
because he plays larger than his physical size is able to absorb. Just one
more... "I told you so" for the books mickey.
Papa Carl
You see the players the same way I do generally...I agree about
Mangold...but just don't see the over the top stars elsewhere...good, very
good...yes..but not the super stars.
Papa Carl
I know what you are talking about..my guess is it would be high. They seem
to screw stuff up before the action begins at times, not forced into a
mistake by the play of the opponent. I think some of this is one of the
reasons all their motion drives me nuts...I see way too many mistakes seem
to result from it and that is all on them...not something the opponent is
doing to force you into a bad decision or situation.
Grinch
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> Sanchez is playing like a young QB. His numbers are on par with Elway
> & Aikman. If he improves comparable to last year we have a huge
> advantage. Some of you guys don't like the play calling and you may
> be right. I am still waiting for someone to show me the OC who can be
> considered good in this league without a good to adequate QB.
Yes, this too.
If the offensive talent is as good as claimed, and the OC coached a
good year out of the prior QB (pre injury), and coached the QB before
that to "Comeback Player of the Year", then when the 3rd QB is down at
27th in passer rating and 29th in completion pct, you gotta figure the
problem there is the 3rd QB. Because he's the thing that changed.
This isn't to write off Sanchez. When I was young the saying was "it
takes five years to make a good QB". The game's a lot more complex
now than then, and Sanchez came here a naif. He's shown good attitude
and character and some physical ability and could improve a lot.
But having high hopes for Sanchez in the future is no excuse for going
into denial about what's happened in the past.
If the question is "who's been the culprit" on the Jets offense, the
answer is obvious: the 54% pass completion pct.
That means that for every five completions that other top offenses in
the league make the Jets collect only four, with one going *clang*.
Cut pass completions by 20%, and ANY offense is going to be looking
for a "culprit" (if not a scapegoat). It's as simple as that. No way
around it.
> His numbers are on par with Elway & Aikman.
Well, kinda sorta. Elway and Aikman weren't great in their second
years, but they both made the top half of the league in completion
pct, 14th of 28 each.
Michael
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
i dont remember your post about leonhard, but i'll take your word for
it. leonhard has been durable and dependable other than the injury he
suffered in practice. it was not a joint or muscle injury. he broke
his leg. not like we are talking about bob sanders. i dont know for
sure what to make of scott. his firsrt season under rex saw him
written up in the media and spoken of by fans in a positive light.
this last season, i hear two things... that is is over rated and on
the other hand, that he did all the dirty work and got little glory or
attention for it. i saw him make some excellent plays including a
heads up game critical play vs the colts in the playoffs and i saw him
blow a few tackles in the AFC champ game. he also drew a few stupid
flags that were avoidable. i'm going to call him a solid but not
spectacualr ILB. he at least played hard through injury.
RävNsfän ®
Absolutely nothing on the line of a Bob Sanders. Leonard is very good and
his stregnth is between his ears as you know. Bart could not call defenses
in B'more like Leonard could and that alone is why Rex took Leonard to the
Jets with him.
i dont know for sure what to make of scott. his firsrt season under rex saw
him
written up in the media and spoken of by fans in a positive light. this last
season, i hear two things... that is is over rated and on the other hand,
that he did all the dirty work and got little glory or attention for it. i
saw him make some excellent plays including a heads up game critical play vs
the colts in the playoffs and i saw him
blow a few tackles in the AFC champ game. he also drew a few stupid flags
that were avoidable. i'm going to call him a solid but not spectacualr ILB.
he at least played hard through injury.
Bart Scott was picked and then groomed to supposedly take over for Ray Lewis
when he retired. Scott did come with baggage but was kept in line for the
most part by the veterans on the defense.
As you pointed out, however, Bart is a violent hot-head with an unusually
short fuse. Scott did draw more flags than any other player on the Ravens
and almost always at "the most inopportune pressure filled moments", and
while the game was in the balance. Right off the top of my head I know of
three games where Scott's inability to control his emotions on the field
cost the Ravens those games. I quite honestly could not believe that Rex
wanted Scott but man did I breath with relief when I learned that Rex took
him too. In his final two seasons with the Ravens, Scott did not start and
rarely played a down, when the Ravens played the Steelers because Scott
could not contain himself when aggravated by Hines Ward. If another LB was
not available for whatever reason, only then was he allowed to play in that
game.
As long as he is healthy Leonard will help the Jets when he is on the field
and mostly, via his calling defenses and schemes. Leonard obviously "got"
what Rex and Ray Lewis were attempting to get into Bart Scott's head.
Michael
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
another observation i made about leonhard... his first season with the
jets, he looked a lot better... or, more to the point... im my
opinion, there were fewer circumstances that caused him to look bad.
the reason for that was the jets former FS Kerry Rhodes. rex ran
rhodes off for what he said was lack of commitment. that came as
clarification after quotes from his book were kicked around on sports
talk radio and the papers. what rhodes did have was uncommon range on
the field. without a FS who has range like rhodes, leonhard gets
caught flat footed from time to time in coverage. he's a nifty
player, but he's not a one man backfield like ed reed
Michael
Because you showed up with a troll suit on.
> To counter my post
> before Rex in fact did coach a down you made numerous bogus statements based
> on assumptions you made from stories in your local press. You then called
> them facts so as to claim Rex Ryan the architect of the 2000 Ravens NFL
> record setting SB defense.
We need to get this one cleared up here. I NEVER said he was the
archetect of the 2000 Ravens defense. I said he was a big part of it.
I remember watching them and I remember MANY commentators calling it
"shades of the 85 Bears". They ran the 46 and the eight guys across
the line that year and they also over-load blitzed with pressing
QB's. If you say I'm full of BS with that, you did not watch the
games. All that stuff has Ryan written all over it. I cant or wont
give him credit for being the creator of the Ravens defensive
tradition because it started long before that team was in purple. It
goes back to brown uniforms and Daddy Shottenheimer. I remember you
also crediting me for incorrectly saying Rex was the DC in 2000. I
knew he was the d-line coach in 2000 and NEVER said he was the DC.
Talk about bogus claims. If any one got over zealous piping up over
Rex it was reactive to your garbag slinging.
>That among several bogus accomplishments you also
> attributed to him Rex, without any proof of course. One manufactured claim
> of proof was attributted to an interview wherein Ray Lewis is aledged to be
> stating that Rex was the creator and the Ravens defense his creation to deal
> with now. Being the consumate professional and gentleman that is Ray Lewis,
> Ravens fans know that Ray was simply offering Rex kudos in the same manner
> that he did when sending 5 other Ravens coordinators off to be HC's during
> his 15 year tenor leading the Ravens defense.
Not a manufactured claim, Drew. Ray said it. It is silly for you to
suggest that the Ravens former DC did nothing but eat crisco. Lewis
gave him credit as he deserves it. It is one thing if you dont like
the guy, but another to missrepresent his accomplisments and abiltiy.
I have only one complaint thus far about Rex. Whe he gives
interviews, he says "ya know" tooo often. About ten times a minute.
That's about all I can say as far as being critical. I like the
bluster and gamesmanship. I want entertainment, not a sterile potato
head
Johnny Morongo
> On May 31, 5:46 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > offense is DOA.
>
>
> > > Will look at this later in the week.
>
> > > I blame everything on Texas...and everyone in it..no matter where they
> > > started out.
>
> > > Actually, I do not buy that Rex is not sophisticated from an offensive
> > > stand
> > > point..you can't coach defense that well and not understand what you are
> > > scheming against. It isn't any one thing, Sanchez was way too green to put
> > > into that position, OMHO, and Schott is not a true OC..not ready, and got
> > > where he is because of his pedigree...but a lot of the league is like
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> some of the players on the offensive side of the ball. I see lots of
> people talking up guys like LT, DBrick, Greene, Edwards, Keller, Brad
> Smith (ok, that's just John...). I might be guilty of that too (I've
> been a big fan of Leon Washington, Thomas Jones, Jerricho Cotchery,
> etc). These are all good players, but every one of them has some
> pretty significant drawbacks to their game. There are 31 other teams
> who have a bunch of good players too, so maybe these good players
> aren't as special as we've previously considered. The pessimistic
> view of the Jets offense would say that they have a green QB who
> hasn't yet shown that he's a mainstay in this league, an aging RB who
> declines over time every season, a TE who has all the tools except the
> ability to consistently catch balls, an inconsistent WR group, and an
> offensive line that had JAGs at LG and RT for most of last year. :)
Nice work here, Mark. I would only point out that, of the three
players you have been too big a fan of, Leon, TJ and Cotch, two are
now gone and the third has one foot out the door, especially
considering his recent medical history. Still, some excellent
observations, although you make no mention of THE single most
important ingredient going for Belichick during this past decade,
Cassel not withstanding.
MZ
I have a feeling they gave him too much responsibility too quickly.
And he tried to take it all on, which might speak to the personality
quirks that you're talking about. He was supposedly a big part of
their GMing, which from the looks of it hasn't been very good the past
couple years. He was probably also a major player in the Tebow pick
(I actually think he could have done something with him...). And I
still don't understand why he couldn't work with Mike Nolan after
having a pretty successful D in his first year. He may have some
pretty significant personality flaws when put into a leadership role.
RävNsfän ®
,,,and you were already sporting your ng monitor ass-hat. I had no problems
discussing the content I posted with others here until your errant
interpritation of my presence allowed me to demonstrate that I have no
qualms as well as the guns to dish it right back out. I'm sure that to you
anyone that is unwilling to tow your vision and accept your opinion as fact
are to be considered trolls, otherwise we'd be considered correct.
> To counter my post
> before Rex in fact did coach a down you made numerous bogus statements
> based
> on assumptions you made from stories in your local press. You then called
> them facts so as to claim Rex Ryan the architect of the 2000 Ravens NFL
> record setting SB defense.
*We need to get this one cleared up here. I NEVER said he was the
archetect of the 2000 Ravens defense. I said he was a big part of it.
I remember watching them and I remember MANY commentators calling it
"shades of the 85 Bears".
...and yet I can't pry one sentence from an article off the internet that
backs your opinionated contentions.
They ran the 46 and the eight guys across
the line that year and they also over-load blitzed with pressing
QB's. If you say I'm full of BS with that, you did not watch the
games. All that stuff has Ryan written all over it.
I've been a Ravens PSL owner since 1998 and not missed a game. I made much
more frequent road trips between 1997 and 2005, than I do these days, That
all having been stated with the receipts and ticket stubs to substantiate my
observances over your own, I still find you full of BS.
I cant or wont
give him credit for being the creator of the Ravens defensive
tradition because it started long before that team was in purple.It
goes back to brown uniforms and Daddy Shottenheimer.
I remember you
also crediting me for incorrectly saying Rex was the DC in 2000. I
knew he was the d-line coach in 2000 and NEVER said he was the DC.
Talk about bogus claims. If any one got over zealous piping up over
Rex it was reactive to your garbag slinging.
I find it outlandishly comical that you insist on attributing Rex Ryan with
the degree of impact you have heaped upon him respective to that 2000
defense because an unproven Rex Ryan only in his second year in the NFL was
not only overshadowed but under the heels of Marvin Lewis, Mike Nolan and
Jack del Rio. Jack del Rio became DC of the Carolina Panthers and took that
defense from 31st to 2nd in the NFL in a single season. That is DC
"mastermind/genius" status according to you as it relates to Rex Ryan.
Somehow I just don't see all the egos above Ryan willing to share or detract
from their own successes by allowing the relative newcomer with little if
any successful succesive experience in the NFL to call any meaningful shots
at his level of the organization. It's unheard of and it's BS to continue to
attempt to herald same on your part.
>That among several bogus accomplishments you also
> attributed to him Rex, without any proof of course. One manufactured claim
> of proof was attributted to an interview wherein Ray Lewis is aledged to
> be
> stating that Rex was the creator and the Ravens defense his creation to
> deal
> with now. Being the consumate professional and gentleman that is Ray
> Lewis,
> Ravens fans know that Ray was simply offering Rex kudos in the same manner
> that he did when sending 5 other Ravens coordinators off to be HC's during
> his 15 year tenor leading the Ravens defense.
*Not a manufactured claim, Drew. Ray said it.
Ray said one thing and you spun it and dry-humped it for all you could milk
out of it. I merely set the record straight by stating why Ray said "what he
said", ...and gee... isn't it hard tyo believe that no other Ravens players
would step forward to reiterated to Rex your rendering of what Ray-Ray is
aledged to have stated?
*It is silly for you to suggest that the Ravens former DC did nothing but
eat crisco.
Until he got his shot as DC and to run his dad's defense in 2005 as a
result, he probably wasn't allowed to eat Crisco.
*Lewis gave him credit as he deserves it. It is one thing if you dont like
the guy, but another to missrepresent his accomplisments and abiltiy.
Ray Lewis' played 4 of his 15 years directly under Rex and most were heated
as Rex did not always show the respect he should have to Ray. Ray's
statement was mere tongue-in-cheek. The sooner you realize your own
shortcommings and misconceptions as they pertain to "MY" team ...the better
off you will be.
And I've asked you on many occassions to cite those accomplishments and
abilities that you speak of and attribute diahretically to Rex, albeit
through others, and you have failed in every event barring the lone
exception of the Ray Lewis fluff piece.
*I have only one complaint thus far about Rex.
I've counted more than one complaint from one game in your past posts,
...but do go on.
*Whe he gives
interviews, he says "ya know" tooo often. About ten times a minute.
That's about all I can say as far as being critical. I like the
bluster and gamesmanship. I want entertainment, not a sterile potato
head
If you want entertainment I agree that you will indeed get your
entertainment. What you are not likely to get as a result is a SB World
Championship. Not until Rex can maintain his house and control the
temperament of his players which he has not been able to do since his days
as a D-Line coach, DC Assistant & DC with Baltimore.
Michael
no less than four people here have used the word troll to describe
you. if every one in the room tells you that you smell, it might be
time for a shower. you yourself have used the word "i have been
torturing these news groups for years" when referreing to your on line
activity. i guess you are just being friendly and altruisitic trying
to bring us jets fans back down to earth.
> > To counter my post
> > before Rex in fact did coach a down you made numerous bogus statements
> > based
> > on assumptions you made from stories in your local press. You then called
> > them facts so as to claim Rex Ryan the architect of the 2000 Ravens NFL
> > record setting SB defense.
>
> *We need to get this one cleared up here. I NEVER said he was the
> archetect of the 2000 Ravens defense. I said he was a big part of it.
> I remember watching them and I remember MANY commentators calling it
> "shades of the 85 Bears".
>
> ...and yet I can't pry one sentence from an article off the internet that
> backs your opinionated contentions.
i should not have to since you claim to have watched the games.
Either you are denying the truth for the sake of your argument, or you
didnt watch as you claim.
i like marvin lewis and del rio both quite a bit. though, neither one
of them has proven to be a better HC than rex. How may champ games
has del rio and lewis been to as HC ??? how about nolan ???? how many
afc champ games has he gone to as HC ???
you credit those guys above ryan but according to you, ryan taking the
jets to the doorstep of the superbow two years in a row counts for
nothing. he's just a blow hard and he cant handle players. i'll tell
you what.. the jets talent level is not all that good. the coaching
style took them past their ability.
> >That among several bogus accomplishments you also
> > attributed to him Rex, without any proof of course. One manufactured claim
> > of proof was attributted to an interview wherein Ray Lewis is aledged to
> > be
> > stating that Rex was the creator and the Ravens defense his creation to
> > deal
> > with now. Being the consumate professional and gentleman that is Ray
> > Lewis,
> > Ravens fans know that Ray was simply offering Rex kudos in the same manner
> > that he did when sending 5 other Ravens coordinators off to be HC's during
> > his 15 year tenor leading the Ravens defense.
>
> *Not a manufactured claim, Drew. Ray said it.
>
> Ray said one thing and you spun it and dry-humped it for all you could milk
> out of it. I merely set the record straight by stating why Ray said "what he
> said", ...and gee... isn't it hard tyo believe that no other Ravens players
> would step forward to reiterated to Rex your rendering of what Ray-Ray is
> aledged to have stated?
there you go, drew... making light of facts and spinning them about
for the sake of promoting your point.
> *It is silly for you to suggest that the Ravens former DC did nothing but
> eat crisco.
>
> Until he got his shot as DC and to run his dad's defense in 2005 as a
> result, he probably wasn't allowed to eat Crisco.
>
> *Lewis gave him credit as he deserves it. It is one thing if you dont like
> the guy, but another to missrepresent his accomplisments and abiltiy.
>
> Ray Lewis' played 4 of his 15 years directly under Rex and most were heated
> as Rex did not always show the respect he should have to Ray. Ray's
> statement was mere tongue-in-cheek. The sooner you realize your own
> shortcommings and misconceptions as they pertain to "MY" team ...the better
> off you will be.
>
> And I've asked you on many occassions to cite those accomplishments and
> abilities that you speak of and attribute diahretically to Rex, albeit
> through others, and you have failed in every event barring the lone
> exception of the Ray Lewis fluff piece.
what did the jets do in their past two seasons ??? with a rookie qb
with the worst stats in the league.
> *I have only one complaint thus far about Rex.
>
> I've counted more than one complaint from one game in your past posts,
> ...but do go on.
>
> *Whe he gives
> interviews, he says "ya know" tooo often. About ten times a minute.
> That's about all I can say as far as being critical. I like the
> bluster and gamesmanship. I want entertainment, not a sterile potato
> head
>
> If you want entertainment I agree that you will indeed get your
> entertainment. What you are not likely to get as a result is a SB World
> Championship. Not until Rex can maintain his house and control the
> temperament of his players which he has not been able to do since his days
> as a D-Line coach, DC Assistant & DC with Baltimore.
>
> ~Drew
>
> "Talk is cheap ...lets go play"
> Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts- Hide quoted text -
RävNsfän ®
--
----
~Drew
"Talk is cheap ...lets go play"
Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:abf37f0b-dc12-4637...@a10g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
There may be a handful of posters in this ng that could cast a stone maybe
two, so save the holier than thou BS for someone who just might care. Names
will never hurt me any more than your so called facts could ever give
credibility to your opines.
> > To counter my post
> > before Rex in fact did coach a down you made numerous bogus statements
> > based
> > on assumptions you made from stories in your local press. You then
> > called
> > them facts so as to claim Rex Ryan the architect of the 2000 Ravens NFL
> > record setting SB defense.
>
> *We need to get this one cleared up here. I NEVER said he was the
> archetect of the 2000 Ravens defense. I said he was a big part of it.
> I remember watching them and I remember MANY commentators calling it
> "shades of the 85 Bears".
>
> ...and yet I can't pry one sentence from an article off the internet that
> backs your opinionated contentions.
*i should not have to since you claim to have watched the games.
You will have to dude because I was watching and in attendance. My failing
to have heard or read most of what you claim is why I have stated that you
are full of shite. I mean I just stated in this thread that I can't find two
words on the internet to coroberate your drivel so post it or be known as
the village netcop and resident troll.
*Either you are denying the truth for the sake of your argument, or you
didnt watch as you claim.
Wrong on both counts but you keep peddling in a circle as fast as you can
mickey.
With that any mildly knowledgeable NFL fan would realize that you don't know
half of what you pretend to beyond the end of your ever growing nose.
*how about nolan ???? how many afc champ games has he gone to as HC ???
There is no restriction to AFC Championship games in play here mickey as
long as you insist on counting the 2009 season as a second feather in Rex
Ryan's playoff hat. The Colts and Bengals both took an unscheduled BYE
against the Jets thus allowing the 7-7 (.500) week 14 Jets to move up to 9-7
and become a back-door entrant into the 2009 playoff picture. The Bengals
might have lost had they played in week 15 of that season, but we all know
from the 2009 playoffs when the Colts dispatched that the Jets would not
have beaten Peyton Manning's Colts had they not taken an unscheduled BYE in
week 16. AFC WildCard games will be included.
Of the following Ravens coaches that went on to become NFL head coaches and
they are as follows:
Mike Nolan, Rex Ryan, Marvin Lewis, Mike Smith and Jack del Rio, ...it is
only Mike Nolan whom has not taken his team into the playoffs at least once.
So in that instance the..., "...even a blind squirrel...", scenario aptly
applies. Well how about Mike Smith mickey ???? Yet another Ravens product
turned HC
*you credit those guys above ryan but according to you, ryan taking the
jets to the doorstep of the superbow two years in a row counts for
nothing. he's just a blow hard and he cant handle players.
Rex Ryan nor the Jets had anything to do with the Bengals and Colts taking a
BYE in weeks 15 & 16 of the 2009 season. Perhaps had he slipped the BYE's
into their schedules but he didn't so let that go.
i'll tell
you what.. the jets talent level is not all that good. the coaching
style took them past their ability.
Not what your GM said to the press when the Mangenius was taking his leave
from the Jets organization. And one could with merit point out that Rex Ryan
benefitted from Mangini's work while with the Jets. He did afterall take
that team from 4-12 to 10-6 and had they kept Chad Pennington who took the
Dolphins to the playoffs that seaoson, the Jets would have had another
playoff birth and serious contender for a SB visit. Mangenius also got some
players in via free agency and the draft that raised the quality of the
defense considerably. Defensive Coordinator was his position with the
Patriots under Belichick before he went to the Jets as HC.
> >That among several bogus accomplishments you also
> > attributed to him Rex, without any proof of course. One manufactured
> > claim
> > of proof was attributted to an interview wherein Ray Lewis is aledged to
> > be
> > stating that Rex was the creator and the Ravens defense his creation to
> > deal
> > with now. Being the consumate professional and gentleman that is Ray
> > Lewis,
> > Ravens fans know that Ray was simply offering Rex kudos in the same
> > manner
> > that he did when sending 5 other Ravens coordinators off to be HC's
> > during
> > his 15 year tenor leading the Ravens defense.
>
> *Not a manufactured claim, Drew. Ray said it.
>
> Ray said one thing and you spun it and dry-humped it for all you could
> milk
> out of it. I merely set the record straight by stating why Ray said "what
> he
> said", ...and gee... isn't it hard tyo believe that no other Ravens
> players
> would step forward to reiterated to Rex your rendering of what Ray-Ray is
> aledged to have stated?
*there you go, drew... making light of facts and spinning them about
for the sake of promoting your point.
Alrighty then, ...can you prove beyond your personal unsupported inferences
of what Ray said, that in fact Ray Lewis was not just being courteous to his
former boss and coach when he stated to Rex Ryan that he (Rex) would have to
play the monster he created?
Before you respond however you should read and consider that the following
statement made by your team GM to the media in addressing to them the
termination of Eric Mangini as the Jets HC..., ..."He (Mangini) did a great
job for us for three years and he helped lay a great foundation," general
manager Mike Tannenbaum said.
According to the GM's statement the foundation for the current success Rex
Ryan has enjoyed and that which you crow about was lain by Eric Mangini,
...not Rex Ryan. Or was that a going away fluff piece ???
> *It is silly for you to suggest that the Ravens former DC did nothing but
> eat crisco.
>
> Until he got his shot as DC and to run his dad's defense in 2005 as a
> result, he probably wasn't allowed to eat Crisco.
>
> *Lewis gave him credit as he deserves it. It is one thing if you dont like
> the guy, but another to missrepresent his accomplisments and abiltiy.
>
> Ray Lewis' played 4 of his 15 years directly under Rex and most were
> heated
> as Rex did not always show the respect he should have to Ray. Ray's
> statement was mere tongue-in-cheek. The sooner you realize your own
> shortcommings and misconceptions as they pertain to "MY" team ...the
> better
> off you will be.
>
> And I've asked you on many occassions to cite those accomplishments and
> abilities that you speak of and attribute diahretically to Rex, albeit
> through others, and you have failed in every event barring the lone
> exception of the Ray Lewis fluff piece.
what did the jets do in their past two seasons ??? with a rookie qb
with the worst stats in the league.
In 2009 ...the Jets earned a 7-7 record by week 14. In ensuing weeks 15 & 16
the Jets were handed two wins for a 9-7 record and a playoff birth wherein
their once vaunted defense under the direction of it's genius architect,
promptly gave up over 100 yards on the ground to the 32 ranked running game
in the NFL while the Jets' Ground-and-Pound Attack, No. 1 during the regular
season in rushing yardage was held to 86 yards. The Jets' defense gave up
over 7 yards per play to the Colts which was the worst one-game average in
the 2009 season. Not to be out done, ...Peyton Manning's 377 passing yards
were the most against a Jets defense by an opposing QB since Matt Cassel put
up 400 in the Week 11, 2008, overtime game at New England.
In 2010, ...while in their second season under HC Rex Ryan, the Jets earned
a playoff birth.
The thing is Mangini was 8-3 in week 11 of 2008. He had a bad run of 1-4
which placed the Jets at 9-7 by week 16. In 2009, Rex Ryan ran up the same
record *with mega help*. Mangini also produced an NFL high seven Pro Bowl
selections in 2008 that Rex walked into. Had Mangini had Rex Ryan's luck in
2008, he'd still be the HC of the Jets.
Michael
> --
> ----
>
> ~Drew
>
> "Talk is cheap ...lets go play"
>
> news:abf37f0b-dc12-4637...@a10g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 5, 1:09 am, "R vNsf n " <noemai...@nospam4me.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Drew... You have advised me and the rest of this NG regarding your
opinions of Rex Ryan. Your on record. You are also on record
disputing my posts claiming that Ryan was not involved to any
significance with the 2000 Ravens. Adding to that you are on record
here stating that far from having any positive effect to the Ravens
organization, you believe there was a connection with Ryan and the
locker room issues the Ravens had while Rex was the DC. You out right
blamed him for it. The same coach that players on the Jets want to
run through walls for. This was all subsequent to your claim that Rex
will bring any team down because he's driven to run his fathers
defense. A claim that is absolutely fallacious. One you would not
have foolishly made had you spent any time watching the Jets. In
order to evaluate Rex as a HC, it would help if you knew the first
thing about what his team does on the field. Unless you care to
insult my mother in addendum to the rest of the garbage you carried in
here, you've duly advised me and other Jets fans regarding your
evaluation of Ryan. All of your points were considered if not well
received. Try not to forget for the time being. Under Ryan, the Jets
have gone further than the Ravens in both his two seasons as HC. What
will you have to say for yourself when the Jets have a third
consecutive season that is advance of what the Ravens can do ???
Perhaps a few fat jokes ???
RävNsfän ®
Drew... You have advised me and the rest of this NG regarding your
opinions of Rex Ryan. Your on record. You are also on record
disputing my posts claiming that Ryan was not involved to any
significance with the 2000 Ravens. Adding to that you are on record
here stating that far from having any positive effect to the Ravens
organization, you believe there was a connection with Ryan and the
locker room issues the Ravens had while Rex was the DC. You out right
blamed him for it. In order to evaluate Rex as a HC, it would help if you
knew the first thing about what his team does on the field. Unless you
care to
insult my mother in addendum to the rest of the garbage you carried in
here, you've duly advised me and other Jets fans regarding your
evaluation of Ryan. All of your points were considered if not well
received. Try not to forget for the time being. Under Ryan, the Jets
have gone further than the Ravens in both his two seasons as HC. What
will you have to say for yourself when the Jets have a third
consecutive season that is advance of what the Ravens can do ???
Perhaps a few fat jokes ???
LMAO @U mickey... you've proven yourself the premiere ass_clown of this Jets
forum... hardiest congrats! It really won't matter what Rex, my Ravens or
any other point your over-opinionionated chump ass can muster will it now
mickey? Because all are my witness that you will just <snip> out any and
every opposing point and fact that I furnish to support my position.
I have reposted the remainder of my response to your own post that you
<snip>"ped" out so as to avoid addressing the facts I responded to you with.
Doing so apparently would allow you to continue your personal theory of
opinion overcoming fact in your newsgroup debates.
I was at first curious as to why you would ask me questions and make
erroneous non-statements of facts for weeks only to edit requested factual
information out when it was supplied to you. While I was confident that my
initial evaluation of you as stated on numerous occasions here was pretty
much spot-on, you confirmed to me and everyone that views your attempted
deception to edit and re-direct the facts that you can't be taken seriously,
know little if anything about football and especially nothing about Rex
Ryan.
You are a bull-shitter that prefers to utilize opinion, spin and deception
toward your own end in a discussion and that is just one more of the many
things you accused me of doing as a troll. You could have simply chosen not
to respond to the facts in my post or ignore the post as a whole because as
you stated many times ...I am a troll. Instead you stooped to attempt
deception.
You accuse me of entering this ng prepared to troll. Besides my being a
rival fan there isn't much beyond your opinions again to prove that opinion.
In fact ...only a troll utilizes non-facts, spin and the always despicable
act of <snip>"ing" to manipulate facts and the direction of a debate you
feel you will or are about to lose. Minimally to embarrass yourself to those
Jets fans in your own ng.
So now following your petty deception and overkill so as to avoid responding
to the posted content you edited, everyone now realizes that you were the
real troll all the while you were pointing at me.
<quote> "...there you go, drew... making light of facts and spinning them
about
for the sake of promoting your point." <unquote> Michael. There is little if
any reason to question why you edited out this brain-fart of yours mickey.
doh! ...the hypocritical irony of it all !
----------------------------------------
REPOST of content omitted during cowardly <snip>:
Of the following Ravens coaches that went on to become NFL head coaches and
they are as follows:
Mike Nolan, Rex Ryan, Marvin Lewis, Mike Smith and Jack del Rio, ...it is
only Mike Nolan whom has not taken his team into the playoffs at least once.
So in that instance the..., "...even a blind squirrel...", scenario aptly
applies. Well how about Mike Smith mickey ???? Yet another Ravens product
turned HC
*you credit those guys above ryan but according to you, ryan taking the
jets to the doorstep of the superbow two years in a row counts for
nothing. he's just a blow hard and he cant handle players.
Rex Ryan nor the Jets had anything to do with the Bengals and Colts taking a
BYE in weeks 15 & 16 of the 2009 season. Perhaps had he slipped the BYE's
into their schedules but he didn't so let that go.
*i'll tell
you what.. the jets talent level is not all that good. the coaching
style took them past their ability.
Not what your GM said to the press when the Mangenius was taking his leave
from the Jets organization. And one could with merit point out that Rex Ryan
benefited from Mangini's work while with the Jets. He did after all take
that team from 4-12 to 10-6 and had they kept Chad Pennington who took the
Dolphins to the playoffs that season, the Jets would have had another
playoff birth and serious contender for a SB visit. Mangenius also got some
players in via free agency and the draft that raised the quality of the
defense considerably. Defensive Coordinator was his position with the
Patriots under Belichick before he went to the Jets as HC.
> >That among several bogus accomplishments you also
> > attributed to him Rex, without any proof of course. One manufactured
> > claim
> > of proof was attributed to an interview wherein Ray Lewis is alleged to
> > be
> > stating that Rex was the creator and the Ravens defense his creation to
> > deal
> > with now. Being the consummate professional and gentleman that is Ray
> > Lewis,
> > Ravens fans know that Ray was simply offering Rex kudos in the same
> > manner
> > that he did when sending 5 other Ravens coordinators off to be HC's
> > during
> > his 15 year tenor leading the Ravens defense.
>
> *Not a manufactured claim, Drew. Ray said it.
>
> Ray said one thing and you spun it and dry-humped it for all you could
> milk
> out of it. I merely set the record straight by stating why Ray said "what
> he
> said", ...and gee... isn't it hard to believe that no other Ravens
> players
> would step forward to reiterated to Rex your rendering of what Ray-Ray is
> alleged to have stated?
*there you go, drew... making light of facts and spinning them about
for the sake of promoting your point.
Allrighty then, ...can you prove beyond your personal unsupported inferences
of what Ray said, that in fact Ray Lewis was not just being courteous to his
former boss and coach when he stated to Rex Ryan that he (Rex) would have to
play the monster he created?
Before you respond however you should read and consider that the following
statement made by your team GM to the media in addressing to them the
termination of Eric Mangini as the Jets HC..., ..."He (Mangini) did a great
job for us for three years and he helped lay a great foundation," general
manager Mike Tannenbaum said.
According to the GM's statement the foundation for the current success Rex
Ryan has enjoyed and that which you crow about was lain by Eric Mangini,
...not Rex Ryan. Or was that a going away fluff piece ???
> *It is silly for you to suggest that the Ravens former DC did nothing but
> eat crisco.
>
> Until he got his shot as DC and to run his dad's defense in 2005 as a
> result, he probably wasn't allowed to eat Crisco.
>
> *Lewis gave him credit as he deserves it. It is one thing if you dont like
> the guy, but another to missrepresent his accomplisments and abiltiy.
>
> Ray Lewis' played 4 of his 15 years directly under Rex and most were
> heated
> as Rex did not always show the respect he should have to Ray. Ray's
> statement was mere tongue-in-cheek. The sooner you realize your own
> shortcomings and misconceptions as they pertain to "MY" team ...the
> better
> off you will be.
>
> And I've asked you on many occasions to cite those accomplishments and
> abilities that you speak of and attribute diahretically to Rex, albeit
> through others, and you have failed in every event barring the lone
> exception of the Ray Lewis fluff piece.
*what did the jets do in their past two seasons ??? with a rookie qb
--
Michael
you are a troll as you have been so branded by multiple posters. it
is backed up by your own self indictment; "i've been torturing these
news groups for years". you came in here to troll and you have
trolled. you did not produce ONE SINGLE shred of proof supporting you
claim that you have been anti- Rex Ryan prior to him leaving the
Ravens. Not one single link or reference to one of your posts
critical of Ryan with a date stamp that precedes his employ with the
Jets. You are probably ticked off that he left town. That is my
OPINION. That is exactly when you were compelled to show up in here
with your wantonly antagonistic bs. and opinionated anti-Rex
commentary. You have been a broken record, not a quality poster. I
don’t object to opposing or competitive fans coming in here and
getting into an exchange so long as it is accompanied with some
quality. there has been nothing from you at all beyond your garbage
slinging and unsolicited extraneous history lessons of the ravens and
rex bashing. even the patriots and dolphins trolls that come here in
salty fission have at least interesting things to say . You are
fixated on ryan. you are a troll. you have not been a constructive
troll. i will no longer respond to your posts unless you can offer
some interesting commentary that goes past rex bashing. i will be a
good sport and give you the last word regarding my comment that rex
was an influential part of the 2000 defense. it is not cogent to say
for sure one way or the other and thus fair for you to call bs. it is
ABSOLUTELY bs for you to continue to sling garbage on an NFL HC that
took his team to two consecutive AFC Championship games with a green
QB and marginal talent at a hand full of positions. Start writing
some new material or talk to the wall.
RävNsfän ®
*you are a troll as you have been so branded by multiple posters.
Just how many personalities do you actually have bottled up mickey?
<snip> the rambling opinionated, unsubstantiated babble.
*You are probably ticked off that he left town. That is my OPINION.
Which means something to you and whom else mickey? Get your over-inflated
ego in check. You are an in-house troll that fancies himself the group
monitor and moderator. Your opinion is worth less than your credibility of
late following your childish attempt to edit my posted content which you
could not contend with. Your ass_clown editing tactics have been exposed as
have you.
*That is exactly when you were compelled to show up in here
with your wantonly antagonistic bs. and opinionated anti-Rex
commentary. You have been a broken record, not a quality poster.
Oh the unmittigated irony of this inhouse inbred asstroll ! In two seperate
and successive posts facts were offered due to your incessant whining for
same in response to a multiple of assinine questions you posed. Previously
when they were posted and again now you have made attempts to tippy-toe
around answering to those facts which dispell your lame-ass theories and
dumb-ass side arguments. You could not counter my facts so you edited-out
<snip> half of my fact laden post and after doing so attempted to inject
more of your babbling opinionated BS in place, ...just to avoid a factual
discussion in favor your opinion which is your obvious safety zone, ...well
until today that is.
*I don’t object to opposing or competitive fans coming in here
You shouldn't because you are nobody to start with. As long as I have and
own my own PC this is my ng as much as yours and I can and will utilize it
in any way and manner I care to. If you are not of that OPINION, ...too bad.
*and getting into an exchange so long as it is accompanied with some
quality.
Being the quintisential hypocrite you would fail to comprehend that you have
to offer quality and credibility before you can expect to receive same. You
aren't the hall monitor and you certainly dictate to no one in this ng or on
Usenet in general.
*there has been nothing from you at all beyond your garbage
slinging and unsolicited extraneous history lessons of the ravens and
rex bashing.
Of course not mickey. When you choose to edit-out the facts, instead of
garbage, it helps you to save face by not having to respond. Try it the
other way around because your way isn't going to work any more after today.
* i will no longer respond to your posts unless you can offer
some interesting commentary that goes past rex bashing.
LOL... lift your skirt and run like hell because the panty-raid is
inevitable. In fact, I won't be surprised if you begin responding behind an
alias or anonymous remailer.. After that editing exhibition you do impress
me as being just that kind of a girl.
<snip> the opinionated non-factual babble.
*Start writing some new material or talk to the wall.
That really is an excellent idea mickey! That way I'll get the same amount
of facts that you supplied throughout the entire thread without having to
contend with any of your unsubstantiated and opinionated BS.
It should go without saying that I fully intend to throttle your incessant
opining whenever I happen upon you attempting to take that all too familiar
short-cut, ... just so you know, lol !
Michael
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
I don’t mind that you act out in an antagonistic manner, but your blue
chip motive is trolling and not football. If you so choose, you can
continue to read my posts and get your daily fill of my editorial. A
past time that I engage in enthusiastically and regularly. Along
with my habitual opining that you can count on, I am also joining the
ranks of others in here that have chosen to ignore you completely.
That leaves you with only yourself to gnaw away at. Enjoy :-)