OT: Gulf Oil Spill...
Michael
fisheries. mostly shrimp. i have been speaking with a few of them
the past days regarding the gulf spill. this is quietly appearing to
be an absolute disaster. the word is that the output of oil itself is
at least one million barrels per day. pb has not released the actual
pressures at the BOP, so it's hard to tell what volumes of oil are
really coming out of there. there has been no mention of the volumes
of raw natural gas either. there is also talk that there are now at
least three release points and not one. every single person i spoke
with is convinced it is the end of the larger fishing industry in the
gulf for a decade at least. this is an absolute nightmare.
MZ
The industry is fuct and they have no recourse either. Liability is
capped at $75M and the repubs voted against lifting it.
Johnctx
> Michael wrote:
>> I have a number of customers in the gulf area including several
>> fisheries. mostly shrimp. i have been speaking with a few of them
>> the past days regarding the gulf spill. this is quietly appearing to
>> be an absolute disaster. the word is that the output of oil itself is
>> at least one million barrels per day. pb has not released the actual
>> pressures at the BOP, so it's hard to tell what volumes of oil are
>> really coming out of there. there has been no mention of the volumes
>> of raw natural gas either. there is also talk that there are now at
>> least three release points and not one. every single person i spoke
>> with is convinced it is the end of the larger fishing industry in the
>> gulf for a decade at least. this is an absolute nightmare.
>
Michael, few people know & they are all assuming the worst. I can't
blame them.
1MM barrels a day? If it is 1MM gallons that is 5X higher than teh
recent doubled version of what we were told.
> The industry is fuct and they have no recourse either. Liability is
> capped at $75M and the repubs voted against lifting it.
I am hoping that the media is playing this up worst than reality. They
did it with Santa Barbera spill in the late 60's which ended the easy
drilling off CA (bigger reserve than Alaska) & FL. I am not saying I
know the answer but few know the truth on this one.
Michael
This will by no means be confied to the gulf. Hydrocarbons and
related matter will be making its way up the coast. For the idiots
that are already calling for the alarmists to shut up and stop
inflaming the scope and soon to be catastrophic impact.
Current level of release (crude only, not including millions of cubic
feet of toxic gas)
Conservative estimate not denied by BP 1,000,000 barrels per day. 1
barrel = 42 gallons. 42,000,000 gallons per day (FOR SURE)
Conservative estimate of when the flow might be checked (and it may
not be possible to stop it) August, 2010.
So.. For sure... 42,000,000 gallons a day for at least 65 more days.
Probably longer.
Total guaranteed release at that rate and elapsed time before possible
cut off in August... 2,730,000,000 gallons (at least)
Worst spill in history thus far Gulf War spill of 1991 520,000,000
gallons
Exxon Valdiz a poultry 10,800,000 gallons.
This BP spil. 2,730,000,000 fucking gallons guaranteed.
Understand yet ??? This is a fucking earth changing disaster.
MZ
I think one truth that we can all agree on is that BP isn't equipped to
handle the problem. I'm not so sure I'm cool with a company taking on a
project that has the potential of causing serious environmental damage
and can't stop it. They've got nothing but plan B's.
RickyBobby
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:c2451882-395c-4cb6...@o15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
It would appear that they did hit a big gusher of oil and natural gas that
was under so much pressure that it blew the so-called blow out preventers to
pieces and released into the deep blue seas.
At least we know the the geologists did a good job of finding oil and gas.
They pinpointed the spot that held a lot of it.
But take a step back for a moment and look at the bigger picture. I would
imagine that 300 years ago New York City and Long Island and New Jersey and
all of that would have been a fine wetlands and fishery and maybe some crabs
and lobsters and shrimps and all of that.
But today there is not a lot of nature left in the entire NYC area and coast
and bay and harbor and even Chesapeake Bay and all of that. But we seem to
be getting along just fine.
The marshes and estuaries and sealife and birdlife and dolphins and all of
that are getting wiped out. They cannot breathe raw oil and they cannot
swim around in raw oil. And the fishermen cannot fish in waters that are
full of raw oil and we have no way to collect that much raw oil out of the
ocean.
So it is a lost cause. It is bad but it is not a total disaster. Well,
maybe it is a total disaster for the living things but it is not a total
disaster for people. Money can flow to Louisiana and Mississippi and
Florida and the rest of the states to learn and practice state of the art
oil pollution remediation. Mop it up, sop it up, boom it up, suck it up, or
whatever they can do when they find oil in the waters. It will be the new
industry that replaces fishing and tourism.
So the white sandy beaches turn dark brown. There are plenty of beaches on
the Pacific side and in Mexico.
But it is just oil and even though there is an unimaginable lot of it, it
will eventually break down and everything will go back to like it was.
So do not panic on behalf of the coastal people. They will just go into the
pollution remediation line of work shortly.
The wildlife is a different story. It is all pretty much fucked. So sad
for Flipper but there is nothing to do about it.
RickyBobby
>
> This BP spil. 2,730,000,000 fucking gallons guaranteed.
>
> Understand yet ??? This is a fucking earth changing disaster.
>
Really? How is it an Earth changing disaster? Just because some birds and
fish and marsh weeds must die? Next year they will come back. It is messy
and ugly and hard on some of the wildlife but it is hardly any sort of
earth-changing disaster. Now if some by comet came down from the sky some
night and hit the Earth that might be an earth-changing disaster. Or a big
enough volcano or a big enough earthquake. This oil leak is just a big
messy mess. It is not an earth-changing disaster by any means.
Get a grip on yourself and your hyperbole.
It is sad that when the drills hit the motherlode the big release of high
pressure gas tore up the pipe to the rig and killed about a dozen people.
That is a form of disaster but it is not exactly earth-changing.
It is just a big old sloppy mess that will be about 5% remediated by our
efforts and 95% remediated by sunlight and dilution. Not to panic. The
beaches and fisheries will reopen and everybody can make their money back.
Sheesh. Some people.
galen...@yahoo.com
cannot harm the planet. The perfect unfettered market economy will
figure this out, as it always does. If we would just leave the markets
alone ...
--
Galen Boyer
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:PvKdncA4DtLdfpvR...@giganews.com...
Amen....they are a complete screw up. Did you see the copy of their
environmental impact plan...it was a cut and paste deal from a well drilled
in the Arctic....it talked about walruses, and seals...what joke this whole
thing is as far as any oversight goes, it's an absolute disgrace.
papa.carl44
<galen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:14qeigp...@yahoo.com...
Right...if they can't have fish let them eat oil.
MZ
> This is just a money grabbing hoax by the environmentalists. Humans
> cannot harm the planet. The perfect unfettered market economy will
> figure this out, as it always does. If we would just leave the markets
> alone ...
>
Galen, I know you're being sarcastic here, but the notion that this was
a failure of the market is akin to saying that slavery was a result of
not having an affirmative action program in place.
Big oil is not a free market. It hasn't been for at least 60 years.
Oil is a cartelized industry. American oil interests are run by the
united states government.
This catastrophe is a perfect example of the failure of government
regulation. The regulators are, in large part, an industry that profits
from the oil companies. The US government, as we know, is beholden to
the oil companies ($$$) and the politicians don't even attempt to hide
that fact. If you think this can be fixed by simply electing different
politicians into office, I have a bridge to sell you. Where there's
power, you'll find money.
In a truly free market, the oil industry wouldn't get special
protections that come with incorporation (incorporation doesn't exist in
a free market...it's an invention of the state). This means that they
wouldn't have the US government to protect them from liability. Only
when the government is on your side can you do whatever the hell you
want and not be held liable.
Next we'll be hearing that BP is "too big to fail" and they'll be
floated a bailout...
Ray OHara
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:PvKdncA4DtLdfpvR...@giganews.com...
> handle the problem. I'm not so sure I'm cool with a company taking on a
> project that has the potential of causing serious environmental damage and
> can't stop it. They've got nothing but plan B's.
BP is unfortunately better equipped than everybody else.
BP lied when they said on their application they could handle any problems.
the US Gov has nothing they can use in this situation
its BP's job to do it.
.
Michael
John... I know 1 million barrels a day seems like a dr doom man high
stack of bs compaired to some current estimates of 165,000 barrels a
day. Given things like the estimated PSI from the height of the jet
and the fact that the slick has hit land alread, many are saying it
must be an amount much higher than 200,000 barrels a day. Many resent
educated estimates are around a million barrels a day. Check out some
of the recent articles as estimates. It is scarey
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
> galen...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> This is just a money grabbing hoax by the environmentalists. Humans
>> cannot harm the planet. The perfect unfettered market economy will
>> figure this out, as it always does. If we would just leave the markets
>> alone ...
>>
>
> Galen, I know you're being sarcastic here, but the notion that this was a
> failure of the market is akin to saying that slavery was a result of not
> having an affirmative action program in place.
>
> Big oil is not a free market. It hasn't been for at least 60 years. Oil
> is a cartelized industry. American oil interests are run by the united
> states government.
I think we really agree...but don't you mean, the US Gov't. is run by big
oil? Or has been and is?
I agree with all the rest of your points...but I think we crossed over
already and it may be hard to get
gov't back.
MZ
> "MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
> news:y_WdnZ6XjZZAnprR...@giganews.com...
>> galen...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> This is just a money grabbing hoax by the environmentalists. Humans
>>> cannot harm the planet. The perfect unfettered market economy will
>>> figure this out, as it always does. If we would just leave the markets
>>> alone ...
>>>
>> Galen, I know you're being sarcastic here, but the notion that this was a
>> failure of the market is akin to saying that slavery was a result of not
>> having an affirmative action program in place.
>>
>> Big oil is not a free market. It hasn't been for at least 60 years. Oil
>> is a cartelized industry. American oil interests are run by the united
>> states government.
>
> I think we really agree...but don't you mean, the US Gov't. is run by big
> oil? Or has been and is?
> I agree with all the rest of your points...but I think we crossed over
> already and it may be hard to get
> gov't back.
I think we're saying the same thing. It's a mutual dependence. Both
sides get something in return. It's a classic protectorate. The
taxpayer and the consumer lose out.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
Isn't this what a hegemony really is? It is mutual dependence, the shift is
to corporate protection at the expense of people. I was shocked today when
the talk on some news was expressing more concern over the losses in BP
stocks than in what the people of the Gulf region were losing. It really is
sad, not just the Gulf thing...the whole deal, loss of a sense of values and
ethics.
Johnctx
> handle the problem. I'm not so sure I'm cool with a company taking on a
> project that has the potential of causing serious environmental damage
> and can't stop it. They've got nothing but plan B's.
I agree 100%. They obviously shouldn't be drilling the deep water wells.
The easy answer is drill off CA & FL where that depth isn't needed but
that isn't an option so states like Mississippi & Louisiana welcome the
drilling.
Listen I am a believer in nukes but what do I know because the reality
is we are never really 100% sure of we are being told teh truth.
Johnctx
You write something like that & use the word idiot & not refer to
yourself? If you aren't sitting at home drunk & lonely, by the tone of
your posts I know you are at least lonely.
The govt estimates right now is 21 to 45 MM gallons. If accurate not
good but certainy not on the level of the Bay of Campeche blow out which
was supposedly 150+MM gallons but the Mexicans never really came clean.
people in the oil business won't even fathom a guess on that one.
That blow out pumped unbated for 6 months.
I made it clear few really know. I will deviate now you & say something
with 100% certainty. You are not a thinker. My bet is that my
Australian Sheperd gives more thought to his actions than you give to
what you write. You take what you think is a fact & throw it out with
the arrogance that befits a well thought out argument. Here is hint
people who have well thought out arguments don't get arrogant.
Like I have said before; if you don't get punched in the nose regularly
it is only a tribute to you working with the deaf or with women.
Johnctx
Ray there have been some cock ups by the administration but there is no
magic bullet.
Johnctx
Papa, before you think I am going knee jerk consider on this, consider this.
If you are looking at this at purely an economic issue & ignoring the
environmental effects--not saying that we should but just for
illustration purposes-- it is a legitimate worry. The fishing industry
in LA is $2.3 BN & only 23% has been shut down. The oil industry is
$70BN a year to that state. Louissianna strugling alreday will suffer more.
BP has lost a market cap of $73BN --ignoring Transocean, Cameron, etc.--
which hits IRA's & 401Ks all over. It is the staple of many mutual funds.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
yes yes... lets see... if i say clemens is a not an nfl qbb, by your
logic it means i told a lie about seeing a few ducks games. if i
think that some gun control laws are useless it means i have an
obsession with fire arms... add to that i must be at home drunk and i
dont have any friends.
btw... the government estimate of 45mm gallons is wishful thinking.
it is probably more like 95,000 barrels a day. if the government can
have their oil cronie propaganda and say early on that it is 5,000
barrels a day while no one has an idea how to fix it (underestimated
by 20x)
now you have some alarmist propaganda. take the probable amount of
about 95,000 barrels a day and do a little goverment work it. x's it
by ten and round it off. 1,000,000 barrels a day...
papa.carl44
"Johnctx" <j...@spamtx.net> wrote in message
news:ZbSdnTxoGKtDNZrR...@giganews.com...
I completely understand..no problem. Now, explain to me why a teacher
making about $50,000 after several years, and probably with an MA degree has
to be "accountable?" Why do high school football coaches get held
accountable? Why do people freak out over some guy who cut their lawn too
short and want to hold him accountable? So, now we roll out the tears for
BP, explain that they are too big and too important to fail and that all
they really want to do is help us all and protect our economy and that they
should not be held accountable. We have created a culture of this crap.
The higher up the chain we go the less accountability there is, and they
fully understand that and have no real worries concerning their actions...or
in this case inaction, ill-preparedness or lack of accountability.
So....when do you think the major food producers will start telling us oil
is good to eat? Maybe instead of the plastic ice rinks in the backyard we
could sell water from the Gulf to freeze...desalinate it....sell it as
"Super-Ice", after all, it will be slick. :-) Frankly, after all the crap
I've been through and what it did to my family, I don't really give a s&%#
about BP's stock....I know, I'm selfish. I understand what you are saying,
and the fact that it is the concern shows we have lost any concern for the
environment and the world we live in, right? They aren't going to get to
sell all this stuff when it all implodes on us. Let's see, when all those
fishermen and the people who supply them, the buyers they supply and the
chain that keeps going on stops buying cars, stops buying as much gas I
guess it will all equal out.
>
Michael
"Scientists say they have developed a car that can run on water. The
only catch is, the water has to come from the Gulf of Mexico." -Jay
Leno
"I love this. On the news today, the CEO of British Petroleum says he
believes the overall environmental impact of this oil spill will be
very, very modest. Yeah. If you live in England!" –Jay Leno
"BP has inserted a siphon tube into the well to suck up all the oil
from the spill. And they've had a lot of experience in this area, by
the way. This is the same tube they've been using to suck the money
out of our wallets for the past 50 years." –Jay Leno
"What they're going to do is they're going to suck all of that oil
that's leaking into the gulf and pump it up into a tanker. Now the bad
news is the tanker is the Exxon Valdez." –David Letterman
"In Louisiana, BP claims that it's making progress with the leaking
oil in the Gulf. They're working on a plan to heat the Gulf up to 600
degrees and use it to fry chicken." –Jimmy Kimmel
"Have you been following the big oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico? Or
as we call it now, the Dead Sea." –David Letterman
"There is so much oil now in the Gulf of Mexico, and you can thank the
folks of British Petroleum for this, so much oil in the Gulf, you can
now park on it." –David Letterman
"And tar is washing up onto the beaches — big globs of tar. And people
are saying, 'Is that going to ruin our summer at the beach?' No, of
course not. You take the big blobs of tar and you use them to hold
down your blanket." –David Letterman
"This oil spill in the Gulf is affecting everybody. In fact, when I
went to lunch this weekend and ordered the sea bass, they asked if I
wanted it regular or unleaded." —David Letterman
"British Petroleum said today that if this spill gets worse, they may
soon have to start drilling for water." —Jay Leno
"Dick Cheney's pals at Halliburton ... say they're going to do the
underwater cement job to plug the hole. I thought, wait a minute, this
is a mistake. Underwater cement? You call the mafia. Am I right?" —
David Letterman
"The oil company said it was the rig company's fault. The rig company
said it was Halliburton. And somehow, each time they passed the blame,
Goldman Sachs made a hundred million dollars." —Bill Maher
"We're still dropping things on it. This is like if your toilet
overflowed and you tried to fix it by smashing it with a brick. Their
next idea is to get the old lady from Titanic and she's going to throw
her jewelry at it." —Bill Maher, on the oil spill in the Gulf
"You folks been following the big British Petroleum oil spill in the
Gulf of Mexico? I'm telling you, British Petroleum has put more birds
in oil than Colonel Sanders." —David Letterman
"On Monday, British Petroleum promised to pay all necessary cleanup
costs for this oil spill. And they said they will do it, no matter how
much they have to raise gas prices." —Jay Leno
"They say the oil spill has the potential to kill more wildlife than a
Sarah Palin hunting trip." —David Letterman
"This is the worst thing to happen to beaches since the Speedo." —Bill
Maher, on the oil spill on the Gulf of Mexico
"The plan is to contain the oil slick with fire-retardant beams, and
then set fire to the oil that pools on the surface. They say if it
works there in the Gulf, they're going to try it on the cast of Jersey
Shore." —Bill Maher
"By the way, Sarah Palin, if you're watching, how is that offshore
drilling working out for ya?" —David Letterman
"Bad news, it's going to be a huge environmental disaster, the oil rig
down there in the Gulf of Mexico. The good news is they think now that
the oil spill will be diluted by the melting ice caps." —David
Letterman
Johnny Morongo
> galen...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> This is just a money grabbing hoax by the environmentalists. Humans
>> cannot harm the planet. The perfect unfettered market economy will
>> figure this out, as it always does. If we would just leave the markets
>> alone ...
>>
>
> Galen, I know you're being sarcastic here, but the notion that this was
> a failure of the market is akin to saying that slavery was a result of
> not having an affirmative action program in place.
>
> Big oil is not a free market. It hasn't been for at least 60 years. Oil
> states government.
Fixed it.
Johnctx
I never said they should & unless I am misreading the mood of the
country, even down here, the mood of people is that they should pay.
We all have friends and neighbors. My neighbor was safety engineer at
BP. He left because the culture that was once BP & Amoco disappeared
over time. He wasn't surprised at the blast down here that killed 15 &
he said the sense is that BP will get a lifetime ban from the GULF &
maybe the US.
> So....when do you think the major food producers will start telling us oil
> is good to eat? Maybe instead of the plastic ice rinks in the backyard we
> could sell water from the Gulf to freeze...desalinate it....sell it as
> "Super-Ice", after all, it will be slick. :-) Frankly, after all the crap
> I've been through and what it did to my family, I don't really give a s&%#
> about BP's stock....I know, I'm selfish. I understand what you are saying,
> and the fact that it is the concern shows we have lost any concern for the
> environment and the world we live in, right?
Papa, I think you read too far into what I wrote. I consider myself
energy & environmentally conscious. I am able to walk to work a few
days a week so I drive 3,000 miles a year. Most, even teh most ardent
capitalists want a safe environment for my kids & theirs.
I also realize that I we have 300 MM people in this country & they have
to work. They have to retire and when their 401K or IRA's are destroyed
it is a big issue as well. We have some trade offs for the environment
to allow that.
>
They aren't going to get to
> sell all this stuff when it all implodes on us. Let's see, when all those
> fishermen and the people who supply them, the buyers they supply and the
> chain that keeps going on stops buying cars, stops buying as much gas I
> guess it will all equal out.
>
>
Papa, like I said it is understandable that losing 23% of $2BN industry
scares people. I can tell you that what happens to $70 BN of high paying
jobs is a bigger worry.
Michael
> On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 13:33:03 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >I have a number of customers in the gulf area including several
> >fisheries. mostly shrimp. i have been speaking with a few of them
> >the past days regarding the gulf spill. this is quietly appearing to
> >be an absolute disaster. the word is that the output of oil itself is
> >at least one million barrels per day. pb has not released the actual
> >pressures at the BOP, so it's hard to tell what volumes of oil are
> >really coming out of there. there has been no mention of the volumes
> >of raw natural gas either. there is also talk that there are now at
> >least three release points and not one. every single person i spoke
> >with is convinced it is the end of the larger fishing industry in the
> >gulf for a decade at least. this is an absolute nightmare.
>
> Industry insiders discuss what's probably going on, etc.
> It's often technical, but you'll get a good sense of what's going on.
burf... my original post did not work the way i wanted it to. i know
it aint ONE MILLION BARRELS. I was expecting someone specific to jump
on me for over stating and misstating. It was my idea that I could
then ask the poster to flagellate the government for first reporting
there was no spill to only a 5,000 barrels right up until they saw any
sort of cover-up or white wash was not possible. There was no way
they could have figured that a 19' di pipe under that pressure was
such a small leak. the fact is, flow and volume studies carried out
by scientists put the volume at about 60,000 to 100,000 barrels a
day. the government first tried to get away with 5,000 barrels. a
white wash. so if i do a reverse white wash by 10 % of the actual
figure and throw in some dramatic language, I guess you can say...
"My bet is that an Australian Shepard gives more thought to his
actions than you give to what you write. You take what you think is a
fact & throw it out"
now... considering the stakes involved in 4 million gallons of
hydrocarbons a day going into the gulf being spoken about by the
government as only 210 thousand what does that make the government and
the oil lobby ??? i think they are a tad bit worse than Scottish
shepherds, no ???
Michael
> website. I've been going there a lot, and through osmosis, I now consider myself a
> off-shore drilling expert ;)
>
> The whole thing is just so sad...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
the scope of it has not set in. i dont think that the cap they are
working in will work, so the spill will continue. i hope the cap can
at least slows down the volume.
Michael
> It's really amazing that over the past 30 years, all their research has gone into drilling
> technology, and nothing into how to handle a mess. They tried the same things in 1979,
> except then, they called the *top hat* the *sombrero...* I kid you not.
>
> It's going to come up the East Coast... hopefully, making its way back to the UK. How's
> the *Tar Cliffs of Dover* sound ;)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
yeah... it is gonna be coming up the coast. the images of the sea
birds on shore is too upsetting to look at. and you have people here
in this group that are trivializing what is happening to the seal
life. fossil fuels are a dead end. i wish it was the oil lobbyists
that were chocking on crude and sulfur right now instead of birds and
fish.
papa.carl44
My comments were in regard to what I see people reacting to...not your
statements. I watched a lot of news where the major concern was over what
would happen to BP...I think that's because the business folks understand
that...NOBODY knows what to do with the leak. One thing that sort of amues
me in a sick way is all of the anti-big-government, anti-Obama folks who
want him to do something to fix it...you just can't have it both
ways...either corporations are in charge or the gov't. is....personally,
after watching the performance of corporations of late, I'll like to see
what happens if the gov't gives it a whirl...but....I don't think they can
do it...they've been out of practice too long...and they themselves have
become corporatized. I generally agree with you...and understand the
economic issues related to the loss of the oil business. I don't think BP
will get a ban though, I really think they will get some bail out of some
sort. The GOP seems to want to prevent them from getting hurt too badly.
I'm probably also reacting in part because of my own situation, a
corporation decimating a pension, living in an area where something else
closes every day and stuff like that....I don't have much faith in big
business anymore.
MZ
Carl, they're one in the same. The corporations can't do what they do
without government protecting their empire. Government can't do what it
does without corporations funding it. It's a symbiotic relationship.
I'm "anti-government", but I'm also "anti-corporation". These are not
mutually exclusive ideas. In fact, I'd argue the opposite -- you can't
truly be "anti-government" without also being "anti-corporation".
Corporations are a government invention. At some point, someone thought
it would be economically beneficial to grant special privileges to
groups of people who wanted to insulate themselves from their business
ventures. The "corporation" was born. The purpose of this arrangement
is to *encourage* risk. This manipulation of risk can be described as
government intervention into the market, which is actually anti-free market.
I think what we've seen here is a corporation hiding behind government
regulation. When they're ready to defend themselves, they're going to
be found innocent of wrongdoing by pointing to the fact that they
complied with government regulations (assuming that's true). They'll be
able to thwart liability claims because of legislation that caps their
liability. In the end, they'll get away scott free BECAUSE government
has come to their rescue by granting them special protections. This,
also, is anti-free market.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
And we very much agree....I guess what I mean, or maybe hope for, is some
new kind of government...I know I'm dreaming...but that's my nature. That,
and my wife says all the surgeries left me a little brain injured. I think
you described the situation quite accurately. It's sad too, I would like to
think my grandchildren will live in a decent if not better world than I did,
but I honestly do not think so. I read a sociologist a long time ago who
offered than when we do not know how to solve or understand our problems of
today...we lose all hope for the future. Perhaps we are there.
raiderjet
> > This BP spil. 2,730,000,000 fucking gallons guaranteed.
>
> > Understand yet ??? This is a fucking earth changing disaster.
>
> fish and marsh weeds must die? Next year they will come back. It is messy
> and ugly and hard on some of the wildlife but it is hardly any sort of
> earth-changing disaster. Now if some by comet came down from the sky some
> night and hit the Earth that might be an earth-changing disaster. Or a big
> enough volcano or a big enough earthquake. This oil leak is just a big
> messy mess. It is not an earth-changing disaster by any means.
>
> Get a grip on yourself and your hyperbole.
>
> It is sad that when the drills hit the motherlode the big release of high
> pressure gas tore up the pipe to the rig and killed about a dozen people.
> That is a form of disaster but it is not exactly earth-changing.
>
> It is just a big old sloppy mess that will be about 5% remediated by our
> efforts and 95% remediated by sunlight and dilution. Not to panic. The
> beaches and fisheries will reopen and everybody can make their money back.
>
> Sheesh. Some people.
Good Lord you are a prize winning fucking dick. Let's drown you in
oil and then float your nearly dead assed carcuss into the ocean.
Then your pea sized brian might finally get it as you sink into hell
to suck off the assholes that caused all of this shit. "Sheesh", as
you put it. Moron.
galen...@yahoo.com
>>
>> This BP spil. 2,730,000,000 fucking gallons guaranteed.
>>
>> Understand yet ??? This is a fucking earth changing disaster.
>>
>
> Really? How is it an Earth changing disaster?
Would you call this a disaster? Whether its earth changing or not.
> Just because some birds and fish and marsh weeds must die? Next year
> they will come back.
Next year? You really think this will be alright in the span of a year?
Sheesh!!!
> It is messy and ugly and hard on some of the wildlife but it is hardly
> any sort of earth-changing disaster. Now if some by comet came down
> from the sky some night and hit the Earth that might be an
> earth-changing disaster. Or a big enough volcano or a big enough
> earthquake. This oil leak is just a big messy mess.
That's it? Just a mess? Nothing bad has actually happened? Its just a
mess, and all we need is to take a few paper towels down there and clean
it up?
> It is not an earth-changing disaster by any means.
>
> Get a grip on yourself and your hyperbole.
This disaster will have far reaching effects on much of our world. The
food chain of the ocean will be affected by this, for sure. What will
happen, nobody knows, but this is a disaster. I don't care if it is
labeled earth-changing or not.
> It is sad that when the drills hit the motherlode the big release of
> high pressure gas tore up the pipe to the rig and killed about a dozen
> people. That is a form of disaster but it is not exactly
> earth-changing. It is just a big old sloppy mess that will be about
> 5% remediated by our efforts and 95% remediated by sunlight and
> dilution. Not to panic. The beaches and fisheries will reopen and
> everybody can make their money back.
This is destroying the Gulf coast, habitats of marine life, birds, what
else? Thousands of people livelyhoods are destroyed because of this.
This is on its way to destroying the Florida coast. Marine life is
catastrophically getting killed by this. Predators are not going to
avoid their prey that are in oil. How far does that stretch?
The full impact of this is yet to be seen. But one thing is clear,
noone can say for certain if we will recover from this. Noone can say
for certain what affect this will have on our lives for the near term as
well as the long-term. You seem to think this is no big deal.
> Sheesh. Some people.
"Its just a big messy mess". What an unbelievable set of blinders you are
wearing. Sheesh.
--
Galen Boyer
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
RickyBobby
>
> This is destroying the Gulf coast, habitats of marine life, birds, what
> else? Thousands of people livelyhoods are destroyed because of this.
> This is on its way to destroying the Florida coast. Marine life is
> catastrophically getting killed by this. Predators are not going to
> avoid their prey that are in oil. How far does that stretch?
>
There you enviroloonies go with the hyperbole again. The gulf coast is not
being destroyed. Over 99% of it is just the same as it always was and the
other 1% will be fine just as soon as it get cleaned up.
Grinch
In ironic twist, BP finalist for pollution prevention award
BP, now under federal scrutiny because of its role in the deadly Gulf
of Mexico explosion and oil spill, is one of three finalists for a
federal award honoring offshore oil companies for "outstanding safety
and pollution prevention."
The winner of the award - chosen before the April 20 oil rig incident
- was to be announced this coming Monday at a luncheon in Houston.
But the U.S. Department of Interior this week postponed the awards
ceremony...
~~~~~
Interior Department Gave Deepwater Horizon Operators Safety Award in
2009
It’s probably safe to assume that the Department of the Interior won’t
be giving out any more awards soon to Transocean Ltd., owner of the
offshore oil platform that blew up and sank in the Gulf of Mexico. Up
until last summer at least, the Minerals Management Service (MMS)
thought Transocean was doing a bang-up job, presenting the company
with a regional Safety Award for Excellence (SAFE) for “outstanding
drilling operations” and a “perfect performance period.”
Of course, this is the same federal office where officials have been
exposed for their poor lack of judgment. An investigation in 2008
found that some MMS employees “frequently” drank alcohol at industry
functions, were known to use cocaine and marijuana, and had been in
bed—literally— with oil and gas company representatives...
~~~
Who will regulate the regulators?
Michael
Drive to the gulf area... Pay a visit to any one there that earns a
living from the fishing industry. Tell them the gulf coast is 99 %
the same as it was before the spill. Add a few flippand comments
about birds and marine life.
MZ
You might be right. But why should we expect the gulf spill to be so
thoroughly cleaned up when the alaska spill wasn't?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/04/eveningnews/main6461218.shtml
IYM
Is it the end of the BubbaGump Shrimp Corporation??? What are Forest
and Lieutenant Dan gonna do??
...and that's all I got to say about that...
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
No one has any idea what the impact will be, or the time frame for
things to go back to normal. Every spill is different. You have to
take into consideration factors beyond the volume of the spill.
Things like the specific composition of the material that was spilled
and the variables of the ecology. Each spill is made of different
stuff. The Valdiz was less oil, but probably one of the worst areas
to have a spill. They also dumped chemical dispersants on to the gulf
spill. The effects of that are not known. Also have to consider that
the current gulf spill has the distinction of being the deepest spill
to date. No ones knows how that his going to effect things. The
truth is no one knows for sure. Thus far in the articles I have read,
most every scientist/ecologist that glanced over the info and offered
some preliminary foresight seems to think the impact will be with us
for a few decades. There is nothing scientific to show that this is
NOT going to be as bad as it looks, environmentally speaking.
Johnny Morongo
Actually, Michael, my wife and I will be taking the Amtrak to the
Florida panhandle and part of that trip will be right along the Gulf
coast, so I'll get a chance to see it for myself and maybe ask the
locals a few questions along the way.
RickyBobby
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:2faa7d82-1a4d-4d56...@q12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
We have to have oil to run our cars and trucks and stuff. One good thing
about this spill is that it illustrates that there is plenty of oil out
there for the taking. We do not want the folks in the Mid East to control
our energy security forever. We could have all the oil we could ever need
if the Democrats and tree huggers would get out of the way and stay out of
the way.
Yes, the pictures of the pelicans coated in thick brown oil are
heartbreaking. But that is the cost of doing business. We are not going to
run out of pelicans.
MZ
No, it's NOT the cost of doing business. This is a myth.
There is such a thing as competence in this world. And I'm very
confident that someone COULD extract oil from the ground in a safe and
effective way if there was a drive to do so.
Michael
Johnny... I speak with people in the gulf fishing industry regularly.
For the moment, shrimp boats are going out past the slick by southern
Florida. In July, there are a lot of fisheries in TX that come into
their season. Most are anticipating that the season is lost. This
does not include what the long term effects of the spill might be.
There is a lot of gas being released. Who knows what it will do to
the food chain there. The oceanographers all seem to be convinced
that a good deal of invertebrates on the bottom are gonna be wiped
out. One thing effects the other and so on...
Michael
> RickyBobby wrote:
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
safe and effective does not = profitability.
as if i did not say it often enough... fossil fuels are a dead end.
major emphasis on "dead". all who consume are culpable, but more so
are the people that are not screaming for healthy alternatives.
MZ
Michael, it may not be profitable in the short term, but it's hard to
say that that will remain the case forever.
But that's pretty much irrelevant. If it costs them more money to
research and implement safe means to reach the end, then it costs more
money. Oh well. More money does not mean impossible. It just means
more money.
When the costs increase, alternative forms of energy can potentially
flourish. There are worse things in the world than higher oil costs.
Also, "energy independence" is a fallacy. It would be like middle
easterners saying they need "us dollar independence". Trade is
generally a good thing. The problem always comes when trade is
politicized, and this is invariably bad for both sides.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
mark... forget about trade and politics for a second
fossil fuels are wasteful, damaging and expensive. the internal
combustion engine gives back very little in the way of useful work in
comparison to what you have to feed into it. how much do you pay the
sun for heat and light ???
MZ
Oh, I know. But right now it's more economically feasible to do oil
than to do sun or wind. Things are changing though. And if the
government can refrain from protecting the oil companies, alternative
energies will become even more widespread.
The bottom line is that whatever option is implemented, including
nuclear, then safety considerations should always play a prominent role.
The fact that BP can't stop this leak now tells me that one of two
things were true: 1) they miscalculated, or 2) they chose risk.
Probably both.
John C TX
> RickyBobby wrote:
>
MZ or drill in 200 feet of water instead of 5000 so a diver can go
down instead of a robot. Maybe use nukes or tax energy wasters
instead of raising my income tax or countless options. The problem is
that representatives get walloped when they lead & it causes
inconvenience.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
yes... safety... and... even if gas was only a buck a gallon, it would
still be much more expensive than what you would have to pay for
energy from a solar microwave satellite once that technology is on
line.
as far as the pb leak.. i am hearing/reading that they are capturing
about 500,000 gallons a day now. my uneducated guess is that is
probably about 25 % of what is coming out of that thing. some
scientists have figured that as much as 3 million gallons a day were
coming out.
galen...@yahoo.com
There you corporate selfish everything is about my money and don't you
dare try to change my balance sheet just cause something else is
dying...
Cleatarrior
>
>06/09/2010 01:50 PM
alt.sports.football.pro.denver-broncos
70.170.107.110
newsfe13.iad 1276117100 70.170.107.110 (Wed, 09 Jun 2010 20:58:20 UTC)
newsm...@cox.net
"So where do you find piracy outside of Africa? Where do you find
slavery outside of Africa?
I think that their minds are sort of hardwired more towards immediate
gratification and less towards long term benefits.
But bear with me a minute here.
There are no rules. There really are no rules chiseled into stone
anywhere. People do what they want to do for as long as they live and
then they die.
Perhaps the "white people" in Europe have a stable and safe society
because that is what they want and the "black people" in Africa have
unstable and unsafe societies because they would rather live in the moment.
There is no "rule" that I know of that says that the one thing is more
right than the other thing.
Perhaps the African practices of adolescent female genital mutilation
and the killing and eating of Albinos is really a good thing.
Black people or African people do seem to really be into violence
towards anyone weaker than themselves.
In a traditional African society adult men do not work. Only women and
children work while adult men stand around and talk about important
matters with other men. Fine by me. That is how their society works
and it has been working that way for 5,000 years and it can continue to
work that way for 5,000 more years.
This is my order for the goodness of people...
Best: Buddhists, Shinto, Hindu they are the least violent
Second best: Jewish and Christian
Worst: Islams and blacks
Your opinion may vary. But you can have a billion Hindus in India and
another two billion Buddhists in Asia and they are not all set to
killing each other all of the time.
The Christians and Jewish people are always on hair trigger to kill
somebody who threatens them.
The blacks and Islams are always killing somebody full time.
Sort of a thumbnail sketch but you get the idea.
There is no right and wrong. There is only what you do."
Cleatarrior
Cleatarrior
Cleatarrior
RävNsfän ®
> I have a number of customers in the gulf area including several
> fisheries. mostly shrimp. i have been speaking with a few of them
> the past days regarding the gulf spill. this is quietly appearing to
> be an absolute disaster. the word is that the output of oil itself is
> at least one million barrels per day. pb has not released the actual
> pressures at the BOP, so it's hard to tell what volumes of oil are
> really coming out of there. there has been no mention of the volumes
> of raw natural gas either. there is also talk that there are now at
> least three release points and not one. every single person i spoke
> with is convinced it is the end of the larger fishing industry in the
> gulf for a decade at least. this is an absolute nightmare.
>
>
That's nothing! I have Moersh-Woltmann Syndrome, a rare disorder brought
about as the result of a high speed rear impact vehicle
collision back in 1997. I was rear-ended by someone from
Pennsylvania, most likely a STEALERS fan. It won't kill me,
but down the road diabetes will likely...
Drew ~
R�vNsf�n �