Jets reported to be shopping Faneca
Michael
shopping Faneca. Not to mention, improve pass blocking.
Glenn Greenstein
> 1050 ESPN radio reports Jets could be looking to save 7 million by
> shopping Faneca. Not to mention, improve pass blocking.
This is a bad idea.
Michael
I think the most important unit on a pro team is the offensive line.
Having the same guys on the line together for a long time is ideal so
long as they are not Adrian Clarke and Anthony Clement. I would not
usually think that changing the chemistry on an offensive line is a
good thing. In this case, I do. Fenca is a poor pass blocker and
getting worse. He also costs too much. I dont think his pulling out
to the right is so valuable that they cant do without him.
MZ
They need to get another guy before they get rid of him. The Jets depth
at OL is laughably bad. They should probably draft another guard and
let him develop as a backup before they jettison Faneca. Like I
mentioned in another thread, maybe they should have their sights set on
Pouncey in the first round?
Johnctx
> 1050 ESPN radio reports Jets could be looking to save 7 million by
> shopping Faneca. Not to mention, improve pass blocking.
Maybe they are, or maybe the source is that bozo Lombardi.
Michael
They got a guy last year from Nebraska. Matt Slausson. He has played
all spots on the o-line and was said to be developing well. Who knows
how well.
Johnctx
His pulling to the right, getting out in the flat on the left side,
being involved in turning pass plays & running plays from no gain into
1st downs have quite a bit of value. Nothing is more frustrating to a
dfense than thinking you have the play covered and safety or CB gets
taken out by an OL. Who cares about money in an uncapped year.
Draft a guard & see what we have. You can always cut him next year or
you get him to restructure. You are overstating his weaknesses to prove
yourself right.
3/1/2008: Signed a five-year, $40 million contract. The deal contains
$21 million guaranteed, including a $4.2 million signing bonus. 2010:
$7.5 million (+ $7.5 million roster bonus?), 2011: $7.75 million, 2012:
$6.75 million, 2013: Free Agent
Michael
John... I dont think I'm overstating the fact that he's not a good
pass blocker. At times he looked like a turnstyle. He gets
demolished. Lots of the guys that sit in my section also noticed how
often he got blown up this past season. I think the coaches can see
that too. Could be a hazard to the qb's health. If we dont have
better, we have no choice, but I think the end is near for him. This
will be his last season, I'd expect.
Johnctx
No you are overstating how bad he is as a pass blocker not that he is
not a good pass blocker. You are also minimizing his contributions in
other areas. You wrote & I quote:
<<I dont think his pulling out
to the right is so valuable that they cant do without him.>>
That is just vomitus. Ok maybe I am overreacting but this was vomitus
Adrien Clarke
We have no alternative so cutting him is insanity. He have up 6 sacks &
3 QB hits last year but you do realize Sanchez was he least touched QB
in the league.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
to my eyes, he looked like a bad pass blocker... and as badly as
sanchez did at times making decisions he was "A +" at moving to avoid
pressure. His abilty to avoid pass rushers was a big part of being
one of the least hit/sacked qb's in the nfl.
belichic seems to know exactly where to apply pressure when he plays
the jets. they collapse faneca.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:VuCdnS4Bz4g1tVLW...@giganews.com...
AMEN !!!!! Wise words. I can not understand this idiotic mentality of
people thinking about getting rid of anybody until you have a replacement.
That is flat out stupid. Hell, even in high school you use JV teams to
create replacements, I don't think the Jets have been running a JV schedule,
and I don't think it is a given you come up with a replacement.
Johnctx
I am not saying he is a good pass blocker. He is a very good run
blocker so when the + & -'s are tallied he is a good guard. He has good
feet tell which me at his age he works hard & shows up fit.
To this day I wish we would have released Kendall, kept Mawae & had
Mangold playing guard waiting in the wings to play center.
Johnctx
Ryan said that it is all BS. I hope he is right.
Having said that if we don't have any young guys at guard with any
promise I wonder what Randy Thomas has left in the tank?
One of the problems of the prevalence of the spread offense is the
decreased production of quality OL.
Glenn Greenstein
And who is going to replace him?
Glenn Greenstein
It would be a down grade. For whatever reason you have hated Faneca
since we acquired him. If you start Slausson it will be a new guy
adjusting at a key position and Slausson is about the only decent
reserve we have
Michael
> papa.carl44 wrote:
> > "MZ" <m...@nospam.void> wrote in message
Randy Thomas is not a criminal nor did he have any off the field
issues. He does not fit the Jet's profile... Think Nate Newton,
Barrett Robins, Bryant McKinne and I think Kenyatta Walker would
gladly leave the Toronto Argonauts to join the Jets.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
I dont hate Faneca... I hate what the paid for him
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
If Sanchez gets injured because a defender blasts straight through
Fancea...
Glenn Greenstein
This kind of thinking is plain stupid. He is a football player (even
if the league treats football players like pussys).
MZ
For what it's worth, and it may not be much, statistically PFF had him
rated as the 18th best guard in the NFL in run blocking (among players
who appeared in 75% or more snaps). In comparison, Moore was 8th. As a
pass blocker, Faneca was 4th worst in the NFL. Moore was 6th best.
I don't know exactly how they derive those numbers, but it's worth
noting that Faneca gave up 6 sacks, 2 QB hits, and 15 pressures (reg
season), while Moore gave up only 1 sack, 2 hits, and 8 pressures
(fewest pressures in the league).
Again, take it for what it's worth.
Michael may not be that far off the mark in his evaluation here,
although I still agree with you guys that they need an established
player to play LG before they even think about getting rid of Faneca.
Maybe Slauson's that guy, but it's just as likely that he doesn't even
make the final 53. We really don't know, but Rex probably does.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mark... Thank you for the stats. I saying how good Moore is and I get
flamed. I have been saying how bad Faneca is at pass blocking and I
get flamed. I see the games and I watcht he lines. The idiot
commitee sends Faneca to the pro-bowl and I'm left wondering. I see
the games. All of them. Faneca is fukin liability. An expensive
one. The Jet coaches are just as smart as I am and I bet hey know it
too and want to send him off. Any aveage guard out there would be an
upgrade on Faneca and cost way less money. I dont care how much
running around Faneca does on running plays. He's not the player now
a lot of people thing he is.
MZ
Michael, I don't think people have been flaming you. We've just come to
expect you to overstate your case and come to exaggerated conclusions. :)
Seriously though, I'm not a huge fan of individual stats in football.
This is a good site for it (check it out...profootballfocus.com), but
stats only go so far. I see a few inconsistencies between the stats and
what I've observed with the Pats (who I'm a lot more familiar with than
the Jets, obviously). For example, Stephen Neal was ranked the 2nd best
guard in football last year, but he was a UFA this season and ended up
signing an el cheapo contract. So, even though PFF thinks he's great,
there are 31 GMs in the league who aren't quite as enamored with him.
Good player, yes. Second best in the league? No way.
Case in point...Damien Woody was ranked #4 overall for tackles. He's a
good player, but come on. Woody over Clady and Gaither? That's what
stats give you. So, grain of salt definitely should be applied here.
Harlan Lachman
<24fa4443-a6b1-4ddc...@z7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Michael <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote:
> to my eyes, he looked like a bad pass blocker... and as badly as
> sanchez did at times making decisions he was "A +" at moving to avoid
> pressure. His abilty to avoid pass rushers was a big part of being
> one of the least hit/sacked qb's in the nfl.
Mine too. I would love to draft a Iupati or Pouncey and let him go. I
would probably let him go in a trade too if we got enough.
However, since both I & P will be gone when we pick and no one will pay
much for an aging turnstyle, I suspect the best course of action is to
keep him this year with no cap and let him go next year.
h
Harlan Lachman
MZ <ma...@nospam.void> wrote:
Backing Michael and I up with facts. We don't need not stinkin fax to
back up our lying eyes.
h
Harlan Lachman
<e63c3023-9471-4f3d...@e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
Michael <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Faneca is fukin liability.
What John is pointing out is also true. Although he is a liability in
the passing game, in the running game, he is a liability for the
opposing D because he pulls well even now, head hunts down the field,
and his pulling is why we run so much to the right.
h
Michael
> In article
> <e63c3023-9471-4f3d-b56a-b3760554a...@e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > Faneca is fukin liability.
>
> What John is pointing out is also true. Although he is a liability in
> the passing game, in the running game, he is a liability for the
> opposing D because he pulls well even now, head hunts down the field,
> and his pulling is why we run so much to the right.
>
> h
to me, it looks like the run to the right becasue the mangold-moore
hole and the moore-woody hole are both more productive than the holes
on the faneca side. not to mention, going outside of brick is
wishfull thinking, where as going ouside of woody is possible.
Johnctx
Moore maybe be better at driving the pile but wouldn't that be why he is
RG & not at left? Papa can jump in here but generally isn't the power,
whether at tackle or guard on the right? I won't even begin to repeat
how the Jet formations are right handed.
MZ I wish Faneca was a better pass blocker. He does occasionally get
blown up but so does Matt Light so does that make him terrible?
This is classic Michael. Throw out something utterly idiotic, this time
weaken one of your thinnest positions to make us better and then defend
it over & over again. At is times I really think he is Quigon come back
to torture us, or me, might be a better choice of words.
Johnctx
Mark, interesting site, but quantifying OL satitistically is very tough
to do. If you look at the guards only 6/20 are left guards and as you
pointed out about Woody & Neal, well enough said.
Is the QB a rightie? Where do they use the TE? How did they do out of
the spread vs. 2 TE, etc.
Honestly your idea on grabbing a guard or a even a tackle would be a
smart one except our DL really needs depth as well.
Michael
<SNIP>
> At is times I really think he is Quigon come back
> to torture us, or me, might be a better choice of words.- Hide quoted text -
You will lean in time, my young apprentice.
As much as you say I don't know my ass from my elbow about football,
most of what I say is correct. I think it was my poor knowledge of
football and your Bill Walsh like smarts that caused our first
division over Clemens. I hardly ever say what you'd hear the "crowd"
saying, because I watch the games and the players for myself.. I'll
say this to you. I'm sure with all of your extensive football
experience and wisdom, you'd have been one of the people that voted
Faneca to his last pro bowl.
Johnctx
> On Apr 22, 9:30 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> At is times I really think he is Quigon come back
>> to torture us, or me, might be a better choice of words.- Hide quoted text -
>
> You will lean in time, my young apprentice.
>
> As much as you say I don't know my ass from my elbow about football,
> most of what I say is correct.
You must have run the exit from Vietnam.
>
I think it was my poor knowledge of
> football and your Bill Walsh like smarts that caused our first
> division over Clemens.
No Mikey our division wasn't over Clemens but your impatience with a
young QB. You throw BS out all the time so you will be right some of
time. The same could be said about most who post here including me.I try
not to act smart when sometimes it is just luck that I am correct.
I never said he would be a star I said wait & see as he has some tools:
toughness, mobility, a strong arm, etc. His problem appears to be he
has the touch of a blacksmith that he can't shake.
I also remember you becoming an Oregon fan & it struck me as BS.
>
I hardly ever say what you'd hear the "crowd"
> saying, because I watch the games and the players for myself.. I'll
> say this to you. I'm sure with all of your extensive football
> experience and wisdom, you'd have been one of the people that voted
> Faneca to his last pro bowl.
I watch a few NFL games a week. I usually re-watch much of the Jet
games. I also watch one HS game -used to be three-- and parts of
probably 5 college games.
I am never surprised when I watch games with people who have played at a
high level is how much I don't know. When I see you throw things up in
here I always think that you haven't reached that point yet and how much
easier you would be to take when you do.
Michael
> Michael wrote:
> > On Apr 22, 9:30 am, Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>
> > <SNIP>
>
> >> At is times I really think he is Quigon come back
> >> to torture us, or me, might be a better choice of words.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > You will lean in time, my young apprentice.
>
> > As much as you say I don't know my ass from my elbow about football,
> > most of what I say is correct.
>
> You must have run the exit from Vietnam.
>
> >
> I think it was my poor knowledge of
>
> > football and your Bill Walsh like smarts that caused our first
> > division over Clemens.
>
> No Mikey our division wasn't over Clemens but your impatience with a
> young QB. You throw BS out all the time so you will be right some of
> time. The same could be said about most who post here including me.I try
> not to act smart when sometimes it is just luck that I am correct.
Lots of what I have put out here is speculation. Lots of what the
"experts" put out on ESPN, NFL Net is speculation. That does not mean
that my observations are bs and yours are golden.
> I never said he would be a star I said wait & see as he has some tools:
> toughness, mobility, a strong arm, etc. His problem appears to be he
> has the touch of a blacksmith that he can't shake.
>
> I also remember you becoming an Oregon fan & it struck me as BS.
I did not become a big Ducks fan. I said I was a Jen fan and a ND
fan. I said I had a friend that went to Oregon and because of that I
got into watching the Ducks. Hence, I saw enough of Clemens to know
that he had no touch, no footwork and could only throw ropes to
receivers in a clear lane. Instead of accepting my observations you
called me a bull shit artist and started mocking me "all of a sudden
the big ducks fan shows up". To me it appeared that you had some
neurotic certanty that you are always in the right.
> I hardly ever say what you'd hear the "crowd"
>
> > saying, because I watch the games and the players for myself.. I'll
> > say this to you. I'm sure with all of your extensive football
> > experience and wisdom, you'd have been one of the people that voted
> > Faneca to his last pro bowl.
>
> I watch a few NFL games a week. I usually re-watch much of the Jet
> games. I also watch one HS game -used to be three-- and parts of
> probably 5 college games.
>
> I am never surprised when I watch games with people who have played at a
> high level is how much I don't know. When I see you throw things up in
> here I always think that you haven't reached that point yet and how much
> easier you would be to take when you do.
I'm not discounting the experience that others have above my own. I
never played football. But I do know that Warren Sapp said Robertson
was a bowlingball with razors. The experts fuck up all the time. I'm
hear to learn none the less. You just dont like it when I explore
things and think outside the box or offer up what my instincts tell
me.
Tutor
Let's be realistic about Alan Faneca please. He is a rock solid run
blocker, particularly when he pulls right. It sure makes the Mangold-
Moore combo look great that Faneca is usually pulling there.
However... Alan is a huge liability in pass protection. Thank God
Sanchez is mobile. Faneca was a turnstile at times and he gets pushed
back constantly by the pass rush. It would not be a horrible thing to
replace Faneca with someone who can keep our Franchise QB sound. We
would sure miss him in the run game, but at his astronomical cost (not
so relevant in an uncapped season), it is certainly smart of the team
to consider replacing him or at least grooming his replacement (not
Slauson, please) sooner than later.
MZ
If they draft a starting-caliber guard, it's also not unreasonable to
think that they could use Faneca a lot as a second TE in tight sets,
similar to how they used Hunter. They could even set him in motion to
lead block or to block across the line.
Michael
looks like i was wrong... iupati off the board now
MZ
And Pouncey..
Tutor
>
> - Show quoted text -
Iupati was nevr going to drop to #29.