Inscrutable Pick
Harlan Lachman
thinks can help our team.
Joe McNight? An overrated HS player who failed to produce with all the
pro talent around him at USC? A guy who duplicates the skill sets of
guys we already had on the roster (ability to KR, ability to catch
passes out of backfield, potential take it to the house player).
If we don't trade Leon or McNight for someone we really need at S or DE,
then this makes as much sense as cutting Faneca in an uncapped year
without an obvious replacement familiar with the system waiting to
become an upgrade.
I had liked the first two picks. This move and rumored cutting really
raise serious questions like did Tanny settle for who we got because
Woody lost money to Madoff, Tanny just wants to stick it to Keel, or has
lost his mind.
h
MZ
> I just saw we picked a RB... what is going on??
> We need depth on our lines, and we choose a RB??
> Crazy...
Not only that, but they also gave up a 6th. Targeting players in the
draft has worked for the Jets, but someday soon, the Jets need to start
thinking about adding quantity. The way I see it, the Jets need a lot
of depth...
1 x OT
1 x OG/C (assuming they cut Faneca)
1 x WR
1 x TE
2 x DL
2 x LB
1 x CB
2 x S
Glenn Greenstein
> I don't get it. We lack depth all over the place, especially on the lines.
> So, we draft another CB (I understand why we did it), and now a RB, where we are heavy
> (Shonn, LT, Leon, etc).
> Maybe a trade is in the works for Leon &/or Faneca?
> That's the only logic to this, other than hubris - - Rex & Tanny think we're better than
> we are... and forgot that injuries happen.
I think this means Leon is a goner.
Harlan Lachman
MZ <ma...@nospam.void> wrote:
> 1 x OL (assuming they cut Faneca and they are right about Slauson or Ducase)
> 1 x WR (for four weeks until Santonio is allowed to play
> 1 x TE
> 2 x DL
> 1 x S
Fixed if for you. While I still think we need an OL, we are set at WR
for this year with Cotch, Santonio and Braylon with some folks familiar
with the system plus a pass catching TE and back(s).
We have a good pass catching TE and a merely adequate blocking one so we
need another for depth. We do need two DL.
And we need a starting safety to make sure Eric sits. The good news is
that we could in theory sign Sharper after the 23rd of some month. We
could also find Lowery surprises in Rex' system at S.
As far as LB, if your team lets us get AT, we will be set and probably
set even without.
harlan
Harlan Lachman
<b592085e-f230-43df...@u32g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
Glenn Greenstein <lex...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Kewpie to Glenn. Who knew it would be this fast.
h
MZ
Harlan, I was referring to depth. Clowney is not very good. He should
be replaced by a youngster. Either Edwards or Santonio will be gone in
'11.
Slauson and Hunter are the lone backups on the OL -- most teams carry 9
or 10 OLmen, so they can use two more prospects. Especially if Hunter
leaves next year.
ILB is thin -- you've got two starters and nobody behind them. Rex has
a history of developing linebackers. Aside from Gholston, there's no
one on the roster to develop.
They need two more defensive backs to groom, especially if Cromartie
walks next year -- Coleman needs to be cut and Smith needs to be bumped
to 3rd on the depth chart.
This is what I mean by depth. Not just backups, but guys to groom for
the future, guys to play special teams, etc. They can't afford to go
out and trade to rent guys for one year all the time. It's just not a
viable strategy unless the NFL turns into MLB.
Harlan Lachman
MZ <ma...@nospam.void> wrote:
I think having depth means a good starter and a back-up for two or more
positions in case of injury. Yes, at a few positions, there should be
cheap upside. That is what McNight and Ducasse are. But, with a cap and
limited picks, one cannot even want that everywhere.
And, while I think Smith, Clowney and Danny s-ck as WR, we have played
with worse.
h
JetsLife
> Harlan Lachman wrote:
Can't your analysis of Jets depth issues be applied to most teams?
Who's to say the Jets don't have some decent depth at positions you
say they don't?
Perhaps RexBaum like their depth at multiple positions you say the
Jets don't?
How can you speak so definitively about so many Jets players?
Doesn't it take a total team effort, with whatever combo of starters,
back-ups, specials, so-called depth to win annually?
MZ
All teams have depth issues. I just think New York's are excessive. I
don't think I'm alone either. Everybody in here has been talking about
adding depth.
But you make a good point, there are some wildcards that might be good
depth and the coaching staff may realize this. The coaching staff may
like guys like Slauson, Cummings, and Ainge, and could expand their
roles this year. But do you really think they can be counted on to fill
in if someone in front of them got hurt? Or to take over the position
next year when people leave in free agency?
Then there are guys like Coleman, Lowery, and Clowney who have gotten
every opportunity in the world but haven't been able to contribute in
any meaningful way. Those kinds of players need to be replaced with
players with upside.
Because of Tannenbaum throwing picks around, they haven't had the
opportunity to add the types of young players that most teams grab to
build depth. Tannenbaum's strategy has gotten the Jets some really
great players. But there's a downside to that strategy too. If there
wasn't, 31 other teams in the league would be doing the same thing.
MZ
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:19:34 -0400, graybeard <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> been thinking that, despite the uncapped year, Woody has given
>> Tannenbaum a personnel budget with a fixed ceiling. With the seat
>> licenses not selling as well as he hoped, maybe Woody is having a little
>> cash problem.
>
> I think it has more to do with what will be coming up, in contractland... to keep some of
> the younguns.
> Even Tanny eluded to it, as far as their thinking on trading Leon.
All these young'ns that everybody's talking about... I don't know, I'd
rather have Leon than most of those guys. Remind me why they were so
reluctant to extend him again. I don't buy that it's his injury. It
might be, but let's see what kind of contract Seattle gives him. That
will give us our answer.
JetsLife
To me, "everybody in here" including me discussing depth, etc issues
means next to nothing to me regarding NFL reality.
But FWIW since you brought it up: last I checked 28 teams were
golfing, fishing or some form or another watching the Jets compete in
the AFC title game.
In Rex I Trust.
Tutor
> buRford wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Revis. David Harris. Cromartie. Nick Mangold. D'Brickashaw
Ferguson. Santonio Holmes or Braylon Edwards (prob not both),
Cotchery. All of these are far more important than Leon. No
comparison. And that is so, IMO, even if Leon returns to form
completely, something far from guaranteed. A third down back and
return guy is just less critical than any of the players listed
above. All of them need contract work for 2011 and beyond. They
wouldn't be able to keep Leon for 2011 if he returned to form for
financial reasons and at least we get a 5th and draft his replacement
in the 4th.
MZ
And only Mangold is due to be a UFA. And I agree, Mangold is more
important than Leon. Holmes, Edwards, and Cromartie are not. Leon
would have been the 2nd most important free agent for them to deal with
in '11.
MZ
> To me, Leon would be the odd man out, even though he was our best O player, at the time of
> his injury.
> I love Leon, as a person & player, but he made some ill-advised decisions that put him in
> his current position.
> As for extending him, he was offered last season, but decided to test the market
> instead... and was injured. Once he was injured, management took advantage of the
> uncapped BS.
> In the end, if he heals, hopefully, he'll get his money, and continue his success...
> except against us ;)
Burf, only Mangold is due. Revis isn't even due until 2013, so I don't
know what you guys are talking about.
Harlan Lachman
MZ <ma...@nospam.void> wrote:
No it won't. Seattle having won so many games last year may lack the
talent and salaries requiring them to husband their dollars; their
decision may say as much as about their roster as about Leon.
Leon held out, stayed away from OTAs, and may not be healthy at the
start of the season. More importantly, he made it clear he wanted big
bucks and his wife made clear what she thought about the Jets.
Most importantly, Seattle only gets Leon with a one year deal. They may
not even sign him.
harlan
MZ
Harlan, what Leon wanted was largely irrelevant. He was under contract.
He would have played this year if he was healthy. If he wasn't
healthy enough to play this year, Seattle wouldn't have traded for him.
The question I posed was why everybody was opposed to extending Leon.
If there truly were questions surrounding his injury, then they could
have waited until next offseason to make another offer.
MZ
The Jets pick up options on his contract. No big deal. According to a
post by Cimini, they pay him $5M for his 5th year option, and then close
to the franchise number on his 6th year option. Basically, they need to
start talking contract with him before the '12 season.
Johnctx
> It has provisions that will be coming due, that will kill the Jets.
Jumping in late here but the one thing about McKnight is that he is very
similar to Leon. HS star that underperformed although Mcknight did in 3
years what it took Leon to do in 4. Maybe there is hope.
Still hate the trade.
Tutor
>
> - Show quoted text -
are you that sure that Leon was going to return to his former
explosive self? Would he still have those precision cuts and speed?
I'll miss him. But I understand.
Johnctx
Leon & Faneca saved the Jets $4MM. Adalius Thomas was just released.
Johnctx
It is the Jet's option.
8/15/2007: Signed a six-year, $30 million contract. The deal
contains $11 million guaranteed, including $16 million in the first four
years. Another $6 million is available through incentives. The final two
years can be "bought back" by the Jets for a minimum of $14 million ($5
million for 2011 and $9 million for 2012). 2010: $550,000 (+ $100,000
workout bonus), 2011: $650,000 (Voidable Year), 2012: $665,000, 2013:
Free Agent
Johnctx
He broke his leg it wasn't his ACL. We know what he can do. No one
knows how McKnight does in the NFL.
Tutor
>
> - Show quoted text -
Correction: We all know what he once could do. Not what he "can"
do. a compound fracture with the bone protruding from the leg,and in
Leon's case broken in more than one place, is a tough recovery. Any
deviation from his ability to cut will dimish Leon's explosiveness.
This injury could certainly have an adverse affect on that. No...
it's not an ACL but it was still a brutal injury. Washington can
barely run a straight line right now. He still can't cut. That will
take time and only time will tell how detrimental this was to what
made him special.
Johnctx
I am not as frustrated with Leon as I am with Faneca, as the jets' know
more than me, so maybe they are worried about his recovery or maybe they
like something about McKnight.
MZ
Are you sure? It was just a week ago that Tanny said he'd be ready for
the start of the season. I'm completely confused here. Usually it's
really hard to trade injured players. They don't pass physicals. I
can't remember the last time a player with a questionable injury was
traded. I really find it unlikely that he won't come back from this
injury and remain effective.
Tutor
>
> - Show quoted text -
After the trade, Tanny said in an interview that he didn't think Leon
would be able to start the season. But he said that almost in passing
while discussing that the Jets wouldn't be able to give him his pay
day at the end of the season. Hey, it has been just over 5 months
since the surgery. Any doctors in the houose? I have no idea whether
the fact that Leopn can only run straight ahead and is not able to or
not permitted to cut at this point puts him on schedule or behind it.
Common sense says that he would not be up to speed in 2010 anyway and
that if (a big if) his explosiveness returns, that would be in 2011.
Considering that the Jets think they would not be able to pay him in
2011, it was best to take what they could get for a guy who isn't
remotely close to passing a physical. Carroll taking a humongous risk
with Leon. I see he also traded with the Titans for Lendale White.
Tutor
> From that, one can surmise their doctors okayed the trade, which means the prognosis is
> favorable for Leon to get back onto the field at some point... or at least the prognosis
> was worth trading a 5th pick for Leon & a 7th. Not much of a risk. And if Leon returns
> to form, they got a steal. I tend to doubt he'll be ready for the opener... but,what do I
> know ;)
> Interestingly, I read somewhere that the 'hawks were wanting to draft McKnight, and
> approached the Jets about Leon, after the Jets drafted him. So, if McKnight wasn't
> drafted by us, it's probable that Leon would still be here.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I thought that myself until I realized that McKnight was one of the
players involved in Pete Carroll's little USC scandal. Somehow I
doubt that Pete would bring in any of the players involved in the USC
problems after Pete ran back to the NFL to escape. I sure hope
McKnight puts on some muscle on that frame. Leon did while he was
here. I truly hope Leon makes a full recovery and goes on to
success. And learns how to keep his big mamma quiet.
cd
>
> - Show quoted text -
Leon was special more because he had a great deal of football
intelligence and coupled with his skill made him special. Even at
80%, I'll take Leon over most backs, he never got his chance here with
the Jets. Schott Jr. either was too stubborn or not that sshmart to
tap into or realize the talent Leon was. I was ok with moving
Keyshawn and even with John Abraham, but still not over letting
Farrior, Jason Ferguson, McKenzie, Thomas, and now Washington go,
players just coming into their own. Washington in not signing the
extension sealed his own fate.
MZ
Tut, I just don't get your point of view. :)
Players sustain bad injuries all the time. They're practically always
ready to play the next season. Football careers are short. They don't
take a whole year to get back into things. Things just don't move that
slowly. It's possible that you're right and that they'd have to
redshirt him for next year, but damn, I can't remember the last time
that happened. Especially to a young guy.
Honestly, I think the injury is practically a non-factor. I think there
are three reasons that have been proposed that might explain their thinking:
1) They really really liked McKnight and are willing to take a risk that
he pans out in the NFL.
2) They think Leon might be PUP and, for whatever reason, they're not
willing to wait until week 7 for him.
3) They hate his agent and are unwilling to deal with him and holdouts
and whatever else.
I think (1) is a valid reason. Risky, but valid. I think (2) is a
mistake for a team that has postseason hopes. And I think (3) would be
idiotic and impulsive, and characteristic of bad GMing. Although maybe
not unprecedented when you consider how they handled Kendall, Moore,
Baker, and Coles.
Harlan Lachman
<a39291e6-43d2-45e8...@t15g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>,
Tutor <dcat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Actually, my son just had an ACL done Friday. The ACL is not the
problem. It is the damage that usually accompanies it. Ben's doc assures
him and us that because there was no meniscus, bone or other damage,
with the rehab, at his age and shape there will be no limitations.
h
Harlan Lachman
MZ <ma...@nospam.void> wrote:
I think the FO decided getting the best FB in the draft was more
valuable to this team than keeping Leon for one year and listening to
his wife tweets, having him hold out again, etc.
h