Jets choices

[John C TX]

We bash them for decisions but two off season moves look wise.

Brad Smith, who for whatever reason is one of my favorites, got paid
but isn't doing much. Kerley seems to be an adequate replacement on
special teams & a better WR. I could never figure out how Bard Smith
who is that good an athlete never developed as a receiver.

Shaun Ellis will probably bite us in the butt but maybe Rex has an eye
for talent & saw a declining DE.

I still think Papa's concerns about OL & DL are valid but these moves
seem to be correct.

[JKConey]

"John C TX" wrote in message
news:ec2a16cd-7e00-4da9...@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com...

I'm still surprised that they totally abandoned the Wildcat? Brad Smith
had the threat of throwing it, but hardly ever did. I'd love to see McKnight
& Kerley run a few options back there.


-- "Ladies & gentlemen, do not panic. The Tingler is loose in THIS theater.
SCREAM.... SCREAM FOR YOUR LIVES!"

JK Sinrod
www.MyConeyIslandMemories.com
www.facebook.com/MyConeyIslandMemories

[Papa Carl]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ec2a16cd-7e00-4da9...@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com...

Insignificant moves in the big scheme of things. I'd guess Smith never
developed because he was never developed....that does not happen in a
vacum...a player doing it by himself. A coach and a team decide to develop
someone. We would probably be seeing the same thing with Kerley if they had
him running a Wildcat a few times a game. The foundation of a team is in
the two lines....and they have neglected the foundation.

[Percy Flage]

On 03/11/2011 18:03, Papa Carl wrote:
> "John C TX"<johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ec2a16cd-7e00-4da9...@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>> We bash them for decisions but two off season moves look wise.
>>
>> Brad Smith, who for whatever reason is one of my favorites, got paid
>> but isn't doing much. Kerley seems to be an adequate replacement on

>> special teams& a better WR. I could never figure out how Bard Smith

>> who is that good an athlete never developed as a receiver.
>>
>> Shaun Ellis will probably bite us in the butt but maybe Rex has an eye

>> for talent& saw a declining DE.
>>
>> I still think Papa's concerns about OL& DL are valid but these moves

>> seem to be correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Insignificant moves in the big scheme of things. I'd guess Smith never
> developed because he was never developed....that does not happen in a
> vacum...a player doing it by himself. A coach and a team decide to develop
> someone. We would probably be seeing the same thing with Kerley if they had
> him running a Wildcat a few times a game. The foundation of a team is in
> the two lines....and they have neglected the foundation.

That probably goes against Rex. He's obviously been in on any decisions
WRT the O-Line and he's probably got too much of a defensive head on him
to realise the true implications. The D-Line is probably more
inter-changeable than the O-Line and Rex thought the level of moves was OK.

All of this doesn't shine very good light on Schotty and, for all Rex's
"Best line coach in the business", Callahan.

--
Percy Flage
"Life is too short to have to explain everyday."

[Harlan Lachman]

In article
<ec2a16cd-7e00-4da9...@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,

1) Omitted and more important issue, not signing Braylon and paying same
amount to Plax.

2) Agree now and said same earlier about Jets decisions on Brad Smith
and Ellis. I don't even share your reservations about Ellis given his
cost.

2) To criticize OL & DL non moves, one needs to be able to point to
players signed by other teams who we could have afforded (total signings
less than 4 or 5 million who would have addressed the problem. I am
unaware of safety other than Weddel who stayed home that I wanted. I am
unaware of a RT or G who is playing for that kind of money who I covet.
I know of no DL who I covet and given the teams like the Pats who also
wanted to upgrade, I am not jealous (so far) of their overpaying Ellis
or anyone they or anyone else got.

harlan

[Michael]

John... I was not upset about Smith. IMHO, it was the set-up that
made him look valuable at times (yes, Schotty cute stuff). On
special
teams, I had been saying tha the blocking schemes and novel run
back plays that Westhoff cooks up would make any decent athlete look
good. Smith was opperating in a scheme, and thus looked good.
McNight, Cro and who ever will also look good when Westhoff is
running the game. IMHO, one of my biggest Jet worries is the
upcoming
Westfoff retirement :(

One other thing I am happy about is McKnight... I
was raving about the draft choice because he looked like a very
athletic and versatile guy. For a while there, I was starting to
feel
stupido. Glad the cs has helped both McKnight and I look better :-)

On Hunter... I was all for it... He looked very VERY good when he
played last year. I dont blame the cs or gm for that one. It also
made the
cs and GM look bad as far as the O-line goes due to the Turner injury.
Not their fault.

I *DO* blame them for Ducasse. You dont piss away a second rounder on
a
project from Mass of all places.. There is no need for that.

As for Ellis... A good game vs. the Pats last year, but the game for
him is over more
or less. No need to pay him for sentimental reasons. He had a great
run as a Jet
and as a pro.

Now on to the most contraversial move.... IMHO... I dont think the
Plax story will end
up as happy as it looked vs the Chargers. He looks like an arthritic
on stilts.
I understand Edwards had some off the field issues, but I think the
Palx - Edwards swap
may have been a very bad decision. Other than goal line and short
yardage, Plax is a
non-player. Edwards was valuable no matter what the down or size of
the field the offense
had to work with...

[Papa Carl]

"Percy Flage" <percy.flage_REM@OVE_ianwhitephoto.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9hg8es...@mid.individual.net...

I just don't think so. I don't think Rex has much at all to do with this.
I think it is a Woody / Tannenbaum deal all the way. I will bet that this
is a situation akin to when Tuna wanted to buy the groceries to cook the
meal.....Woody is tight....and Tanny does what Woody wants.

[John C TX]

On Nov 3, 2:32 pm, Harlan Lachman <har...@eeivt.com> wrote:
> In article
> <ec2a16cd-7e00-4da9-b2b3-9cb7aa4e7...@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,

>  John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We bash them for decisions but two off season moves look wise.
>
> > Brad Smith, who for whatever reason is one of my favorites, got paid
> > but isn't doing much.  Kerley seems to be an adequate replacement on
> > special teams & a better WR.  I could never figure out how Bard Smith
> > who is that good an athlete never developed as a receiver.
>
> > Shaun Ellis will probably bite us in the butt but maybe Rex has an eye
> > for talent & saw a declining DE.
>
> > I still think Papa's concerns about OL & DL are valid but these moves
> > seem to be correct.
>
> 1) Omitted and more important issue, not signing Braylon and paying same
> amount to Plax.

At times I miss Edwards but maybe Rex thought he was a locker room
issue & Burress at one year was a risk worth taking.

>
> 2) Agree now and said same earlier about Jets decisions on Brad Smith
> and Ellis. I don't even share your reservations about Ellis given his
> cost.

I thought not keeping Ellis was a mistake. I never thought the Pats
would pay him that much so I agree with you on $. I think Rex or
someone saw him dropping off.

Smith is more emotion. He was good on both sides of the ball on ST
and on offense with his limited role he often made things happen.

>
> 2) To criticize OL & DL non moves, one needs to be able to point to
> players signed by other teams who we could have afforded (total signings
> less than 4 or 5 million who would have addressed the problem. I am
> unaware of safety other than Weddel who stayed home that I wanted. I am
> unaware of a RT or G who is playing for that kind of money who I covet.
> I know of no DL who I covet and given the teams like the Pats who also
> wanted to upgrade, I am not jealous (so far) of their overpaying Ellis
> or anyone they or anyone else got.
>
> harlan

Harlan, everyone needs a safety so I don't have a problem with
standing pat there.

On the OL someone thought Hunter could start. I know Papa & MZ saw
some bad things last game on pass protection but I saw a lot of good
run blocking maybe he is good enough.

[John C TX]

On Nov 3, 1:03 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:ec2a16cd-7e00-4da9...@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com...> We bash them for decisions but two off season moves look wise.

>
> > Brad Smith, who for whatever reason is one of my favorites, got paid
> > but isn't doing much.  Kerley seems to be an adequate replacement on
> > special teams & a better WR.  I could never figure out how Bard Smith
> > who is that good an athlete never developed as a receiver.
>
> > Shaun Ellis will probably bite us in the butt but maybe Rex has an eye
> > for talent & saw a declining DE.
>
> > I still think Papa's concerns about OL & DL are valid but these moves
> > seem to be correct.
>
> Insignificant moves in the big scheme of things.  I'd guess Smith never
> developed because he was never developed....that does not happen in a
> vacum...a player doing it by himself.

Maybe Papa but for a great athlete who didn't fumble he never
progressed as being steady catching the ball. I always found it odd.

His first year was idiotic. That was Mangini trying to do a BB &
basically have no 3rd string QB by having Smith fill that role so he
learned neither position year one.

>A coach and a team decide to develop
> someone.  We would probably be seeing the same thing with Kerley if they had
> him running a Wildcat a few times a game.  The foundation of a team is in
> the two lines....and they have neglected the foundation.

well they drafted 2 guys this year for the DL so they tried. On
offense we will find out what Hunter has.

[John C TX]

On Nov 3, 6:02 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 10:17 am, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We bash them for decisions but two off season moves look wise.
>
> > Brad Smith, who for whatever reason is one of my favorites, got paid
> > but isn't doing much.  Kerley seems to be an adequate replacement on
> > special teams & a better WR.  I could never figure out how Bard Smith
> > who is that good an athlete never developed as a receiver.
>
> > Shaun Ellis will probably bite us in the butt but maybe Rex has an eye
> > for talent & saw a declining DE.
>
> > I still think Papa's concerns about OL & DL are valid but these moves
> > seem to be correct.
>
> John... I was not upset about Smith.  IMHO, it was the set-up that
> made him look valuable at times (yes, Schotty cute stuff).  On
> special
> teams, I had been saying tha the blocking schemes and novel run
> back plays  that Westhoff cooks up would make any decent athlete look
> good.  Smith was opperating in a scheme, and thus looked good.

Smith can flat run. He also doesn't fumble but Westhoff is a big
help.

> McNight, Cro and who ever will also look good when Westhoff is
> running the game.  IMHO, one of my biggest Jet worries is the
> upcoming
> Westfoff retirement :(

Has he talked about it? He is only 63 & he strikes me as teh kind of
guy that views retirement as the biggest cause of death in America.

>
> One other thing I am happy about is McKnight... I
> was raving about the draft choice because he looked like a very
> athletic and versatile guy.  For a while there, I was starting to
> feel
> stupido.  Glad the cs has helped both McKnight and I look better :-)

He could have a Kevin Faulk type career if he keeps working.

>
> On Hunter... I was all for it... He looked very VERY good when he
> played last year.  I dont blame the cs or gm for that one.  It also
> made the
> cs and GM look bad as far as the O-line goes due to the Turner injury.
> Not their fault.

He is looking better.

>
> I *DO* blame them for Ducasse.  You dont piss away a second rounder on
> a
> project from Mass of all places.. There is no need for that.

A very late 2nd

Michael, I will be disappointed but he was a late 2nd rounder. Half
the 1st rounders are busts in most drafts. This draft seems like the
talent pool was thin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NFL_Draft

>
> As for Ellis... A good game vs. the Pats last year, but the game for
> him is over more
> or less.  No need to pay him for sentimental reasons. He had a great
> run as a Jet
> and as a pro.

I didn't want tp pay him for sentiment I just wanted the depth. It
turns out it may be over.

>
> Now on to the most contraversial move.... IMHO... I dont think the
> Plax story will end
> up as happy as it looked vs the Chargers. He looks like an arthritic
> on stilts.
> I understand Edwards had some off the field issues, but I think the
> Palx - Edwards swap
> may have been a very bad decision.  Other than goal line and short
> yardage, Plax is a
> non-player.  Edwards was valuable no matter what the down or size of
> the field the offense
> had to work with...

He showed some shiftiness on the catch that wasn't a TD. He may be
suffering from the QB locking in on a receiver or you may be right.

[Tutor]

> offense we will find out what Hunter has.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

by the way... Sean Ellis hasn't done jack-shit for the Patriots.
(Neither has haynesworth or Ochocinco for that matter, and so many
people here were panicky when they were all signed.) "Pats making
moves... oh no... Jets not... oh no...."

[Tutor]

On Nov 3, 1:18 pm, "JKConey" <jkco...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "John C TX"  wrote in messagenews:ec2a16cd-7e00-4da9...@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com...

quiet you! You'll give Schitty some more bad ideas..

[Harlan Lachman]

In article
<27558369-d36a-4b1a...@o14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,

John C TX <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On the OL someone thought Hunter could start. I know Papa & MZ saw
> some bad things last game on pass protection but I saw a lot of good
> run blocking maybe he is good enough.

It doesn't look that way to me. But my point is so who else do you get
this year after Woody's injury? Maybe someone can think of a much better
OG or RT who got signed for money we could have afforded.

I cannot.

h

[John C TX]

I was worried about losing Ellis, the signing of Haynesworth, not
worried about Smith but liked him, & was glad the Pats signed Ocho.

Ellis was playing better but is hurt again.

[RävNsfän ®]

--
~Drew

"Talk is cheap ...lets just play"
John Unitas - Baltimore Colts

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ec2a16cd-7e00-4da9...@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
: We bash them for decisions but two off season moves look wise.

:
: Brad Smith, who for whatever reason is one of my favorites, got paid
: but isn't doing much. Kerley seems to be an adequate replacement on
: special teams & a better WR. I could never figure out how Bard Smith
: who is that good an athlete never developed as a receiver.
:
: Shaun Ellis will probably bite us in the butt but maybe Rex has an eye
: for talent & saw a declining DE.

During his stint with the B'more Ravens, DC Rex Ryan evaluated a young
talent named James Harrison. After his evaluation concluded, Rex Ryan
removed James Harrison from the Ravens active roster and placed him with the
Ravens practice squad at which point the Pittsburgh Steelers immediately
claimed him. Now you know the rest of the story.
--
~Drew

"Talk is cheap ...lets just play"
John Unitas - Baltimore Colts

[MZ]

The funny part is that the best FA move they made was signing an OL
three days before the regular season started. Those early FA signings
didn't pan out. Not only did they whiff on them, but they also let go
three or four guys who have gone on to other teams and have either
been productive or who played positions where the Pats could use them
now.

[John C TX]

> > by the way...  Sean Ellis hasn't done jack-shit for the Patriots.
> > (Neither has haynesworth or Ochocinco for that matter, and so many
> > people here were panicky when they were all signed.)  "Pats making
> > moves... oh no... Jets not... oh no...."
>
> The funny part is that the best FA move they made was signing an OL
> three days before the regular season started.  Those early FA signings
> didn't pan out.  Not only did they whiff on them, but they also let go
> three or four guys who have gone on to other teams and have either
> been productive or who played positions where the Pats could use them
> now.

I thought Haynesworth was doing OK, no?

[John C TX]

On Nov 7, 3:12 pm, "RävNsfän ®" <noemai...@nospam4me.org> wrote:
> --
>      ~Drew
>
>  "Talk is cheap ...lets just play"
>   John Unitas - Baltimore Colts
>

> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:ec2a16cd-7e00-4da9...@j19g2000pro.googlegroups.com...

> : We bash them for decisions but two off season moves look wise.
> :
> : Brad Smith, who for whatever reason is one of my favorites, got paid
> : but isn't doing much.  Kerley seems to be an adequate replacement on
> : special teams & a better WR.  I could never figure out how Bard Smith
> : who is that good an athlete never developed as a receiver.
> :
> : Shaun Ellis will probably bite us in the butt but maybe Rex has an eye
> : for talent & saw a declining DE.
>
> During his stint with the B'more Ravens, DC Rex Ryan evaluated a young
> talent named James Harrison. After his evaluation concluded, Rex Ryan
> removed James Harrison from the Ravens active roster and placed him with the
> Ravens practice squad at which point the Pittsburgh Steelers immediately
> claimed him. Now you know the rest of the story.
> --
>      ~Drew
>
>  "Talk is cheap ...lets just play"
>   John Unitas - Baltimore Colts

You post that after a Johnny U quote who was released by the Steelers?

:)

[MZ]

Haynesworth can run over people, draws two or three blockers at a
time, and has drawn three holding penalties on the season in limited
work (about 75 snaps?). He pushes the pocket better than Wilfork or
anyone else on the team. The problem is that he seems to be immune to
what the play is, takes himself out of running lanes (like the Giants
first TD yesterday) because he's too preoccupied with gaining
penetration. That sort of thing drives Belichick nuts. Which is
probably why he sat on the bench for the rest of the game after that
TD. The guy has playmaking ability, and QBs are probably not very
happy to see him on the field, but Belichick won't play him because he
doesn't play read and react very well. I wish he would just start
using the guy on 3rd downs. But he seems to be using these interior
linemen on a series-by-series rotation rather than in a situational
one (another mistake from the defensive guru). Wrong thread, but
Bruschi today defended Belichick, saying the problem isn't scheme,
it's personnel. I'm convinced it's both.

[RävNsfän ®]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:30793dce-0671-4b98...@x36g2000prb.googlegroups.com...

Sorry, I see you are kidding but I'm failing to equate the significance
considering Rooney Sr.'s proven ineptness at evaluating pro football talent
and the subsequent loss of Unitas that became both the NFL's and B'more's
historical gain.

Did you know that around that very same time period, Pittsburgh (Rooney Sr.)
gave up a top draft pick to Chicago in a player trade. That draft Chicago
takes ...Dick Butkus.

Little wonder why the Steelers were the oafs of the NFL for 39 years until
the sudden discovery of the Steroid Nation.

[John C TX]

On Nov 7, 8:08 pm, "RävNsfän ®" <noemai...@nospam4me.org> wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:30793dce-0671-4b98...@x36g2000prb.googlegroups.com...

I knew they were a joke but my reference was to the fact you might
have owed them one.

As for the Steelers & steroids, well, the proof is in the morgue but
they were not alone. It is still going on & if the NFL was serious
about it they would test properly. Also If you test + once you get
tested twice a month forever. They don't want to do that.

[Tutor]

Cut today after seen arguing on the sidelines with Pepper Johnson on
Sunday. He's a big fat P.O.S. whose surly personality is a negative.

[MZ]

Every reporter who has covered the Pats all season said he was a model
citizen. His teammates often talked about how they didn't know where
his bad reputation came from. Belichick didn't like him -- just as he
doesn't like half of the players he cuts (who often go on to be
productive on other teams). Ochocinco, who has done nothing as a
Patriot, will probably be on the team for the next three years because
he "works hard and is professional", ie. is BFFs with Belichick. The
same was true of Fred Taylor. Great. Professionalism is an important
trait. But someone needs to remind Belichick that they need to be
able to play football too.

It was pretty obvious that Belichick was pissed off because
Haynesworth gave up the first Giants TD by being too aggressive and
not holding his position. After that happened, he was benched. I
understand that, but that's a product of poor personnel usage, which
has been a theme on the Patriots defense for about three years.
Haynesworth is an up-the-field kind of player, ideal in a penetrating
kind of defense. Belichick doesn't like penetrating DTs. He'd have
cut Kris Jenkins in his prime, because Jenkins probably wouldn't have
been great as a read-and-react lineman.

I believe that Haynesworth could be productive on a team with a smart
defensive coaching staff. New England doesn't have that. New York
does.

[graybeard]

On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:23:38 -0800 (PST), MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org>
wrote:

>I believe that Haynesworth could be productive on a team with a smart
>defensive coaching staff. New England doesn't have that. New York
>does.

I would certainly bring him in for a physical and a workout. If he is in
game shape, I think the Jets would try to work him into some sets in
which he could be effective. If you're a defensive player and you can't
enjoy playing in a Rex Ryan defense, then you probably can't play for
anyone. And he would sure be motivated to be Brady's worst nightmare.
--
graybeard

[RävNsfän ®]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:ad16537b-ace7-448d...@u10g2000prm.googlegroups.com...

I knew they were a joke but my reference was to the fact you might
have owed them one.

okay gotcha, ...disagree..., but gotcha.

As for the Steelers & steroids, well, the proof is in the morgue but
they were not alone. It is still going on & if the NFL was serious
about it they would test properly. Also If you test + once you get
tested twice a month forever. They don't want to do that.

What is most sad... an employer that knowingly puts the lives of his
employees in peril, ...or the employees who knowingly allow it for the
promise of a pot of gold they may never live long enough to enjoy?
Prostitution by any other name... !

[Percy Flage]

On 09/11/2011 03:51, RävNsfän ® wrote:
> What is most sad... an employer that knowingly puts the lives of his
> employees in peril, ...or the employees who knowingly allow it for the
> promise of a pot of gold they may never live long enough to enjoy?
> Prostitution by any other name... !

That explains why we've never seen players and coaches kissing.

[cd]

On Nov 9, 5:17 am, Percy Flage

Locking up the O-line and Harris was smart; think this offense would
do better if Callahan was OC. FO should've given Edwards a contract
when all others offers were looking marginal, he was a true deep
threat. It is unfair to compare Edwards with Burress or even Holmes;
Jets should have kept all, including Cotchery. I am extremely
dissappointed in how they seem to have no ability to draft a WR.
Looking around the league, there seem to be plenty of good WR's
drafted or rookie FA's signed.

[Papa Carl]

"cd" <cd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:241c2af6-7675-473d...@e3g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...

Well put...and I agree totally. They do not seem to be able to find a WR in
the draft...and that is very strange to me.