Where's Wald...errr, buRford?
graybeard
OK with the b-man.
--
graybeard
Percy Flage
> Opening game is 5 days away and not a peep in months. Hope everything is
> OK with the b-man.
Aye, where is he? He's not posted since Feb.
--
Percy Flage
"Life is too short to have to explain everyday."
Papa Carl
"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:5k6d67lcud0s61k1j...@4ax.com...
Well...he and I have gotten together on a couple of occasions....I can't get
in contact either. I'm worried about him.
graybeard
wrote:
Damn, that sounds a bit ominous for my taste.
--
graybeard
Johnny Morongo
> Opening game is 5 days away and not a peep in months. Hope everything is
> OK with the b-man.
Please allow me to remind you about Burf's vow to walk away from the
Jets - *IF* they were to keep Schitenhimer. Looks like he meant it.
Maybe Tut or John C can lure him back?
On second thought...
Papa Carl
"Johnny Morongo" <Mor...@Burf.com> wrote in message
news:j46pv3$2q4$1...@dont-email.me...
Just heard from him...he is extremely busy. I sort of agree about Schott
though...I find myself watching other teams much more now...still love the
Jets...but can't stand to watch that offense at times.
graybeard
wrote:
>
Good to hear buRf is all right.
My fervent hope (perhaps against all hope) is that Tom Moore will have
enough of an effect on the maturation process of both Brian S. and
Sanchez to improve both of their decision making abilities. I think if
the offense crashes and burns this season, we will have a new OC next
year.
--
graybeard
Papa Carl
"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
This is really fairly simple. IF all the guys who supported Schott were
correct and he is the real deal...then the reason the offense was what it
was can be directly attributed to Sanchez. Schott had to do some things
because the QB was incapable of doing more. In fact, there are a lot of
"experts" who seem to claim that, that the Jets don't ask Sanchez to do
much...hence the style of offense. However, if it is not Sanchez, if he can
really play and the either the offense or the lack of adequate coaching to
develop him is at fault, then it is all of Schott. Either way...in year
three with this QB we find out. There is NO WAY a franchise claiming to be
in it to win it now can go into year four with a QB who does not produce.
So both Sanchez and Schott are on the hot seat to perform this year. And I
think both should be gone if there is no progress. If you wonder what makes
me look at it this way...just watch the tapes of game one last season.
Either the OC totally froze or he had NO confidence in the QB at all.
Something has go to give this season. You can't hid the offense all season
long and expect the D to pull it out all the time.
MZ
> "graybeard" <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:5ite671ldm8rdv3ch...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 7 Sep 2011 01:04:45 -0400, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net>
> > wrote:
>
> >>"Johnny Morongo" <Moro...@Burf.com> wrote in message
some direct evidence from the odd formation/personnel usage, and some
playcalling brainfarts, that Schott is probably pretty mediocre at the
job.
Tutor
I was never a Schott fan. But after Hackett, Heimerding I didn't
think he waqs as awful as everyone else. I was wrong. I have been
firmly in the fire Schott camp now since early last November. Thought
I made that obvious.
As for BuRf, just read Carl's post and happy he is busy. You guys had
me worried there.
Tutor
>
> news:5ite671ldm8rdv3ch...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>> >>"Johnny Morongo" <Moro...@Burf.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
well put. But I still can't tell for sure if Schott's vacuous
approach is due to Sanchez or Sanchez's early ineptness in games is
due to Schott. Chicken/egg dillemma. When Sanchez is allowed to
improvise at the end of games and later in the season, he seems to
shine. I'm leaning towards Schott being blameworthy here. ALso,
Sanchez gets an additional year beyond the 3 due to his extremely
limited college career. But for Schott, it's now or never.
Johnny Morongo
Couldn't agree more, Dave. And there are those among us, not you I
don't think, who have not liked his play calling from back in year one
under Mangini. IIRC, Mangini hired Schott late in the OC search when he
first came on board. As he told us back then, he was very impressed
with Schott's offensive strategy. I think that was because he himself
didn't know shit from shinola about the offensive side of the ball and
therefore was overly, and falsely, impressed with his unexpected,
shoe-box play calling. And then Woody, who has always been charmed by
"name recognition" fell in love with the Schottenheimer name and we
became stuck with him.
One way or another, this should be his last year as OC of the NYJ.
Johnny Morongo
Well I'm glad to see you back here, with or without Bumferd.
Percy Flage
> "Johnny Morongo"<Mor...@Burf.com> wrote in message
> news:j46pv3$2q4$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 9/6/2011 3:15 PM, graybeard wrote:
>>> Opening game is 5 days away and not a peep in months. Hope everything is
>>> OK with the b-man.
>>
>> Please allow me to remind you about Burf's vow to walk away from the
>> Jets - *IF* they were to keep Schitenhimer. Looks like he meant it.
>>
>> Maybe Tut or John C can lure him back?
>>
>> On second thought...
>
> Just heard from him...he is extremely busy.
Pffft. Tell him to get his arse in gear. He's late.
Papa Carl
"MZ" <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:8ee90c09-b9da-4d6c...@g30g2000vbu.googlegroups.com...
And I completely agree...but in today's world we have to deal with
everything in a political fashion...so now it is up to Schott to
produce...even he has gone on record of touting the progress of
Sanchez..although a lot less than others. Me thinks Schott is unsure of
what a good QB is supposed to look like...he is a systems guy first and
actual players abilities are foreign to him. I totally agree with you...I
saw enough out of him over his tenure with the Jets to form my own
opinions...he should have gone at least a year ago.
Papa Carl
"Johnny Morongo" <Mor...@Burf.com> wrote in message
Other guys who produce as little as Schott without his pedigree get
canned...become history and probably never would have gotten the job in the
first place...I think that can be proven if someone would do the research
and had access to all the info. He lives off of his last name.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
both the qb and the oc appear to be flawed.
sanchez has problems throwing intermediate range passes. i think it
is his low release point that gives him trouble. could he improve ???
yeah... he might be able to find a work-around.
also...
no matter how bad sanchez is, you cant blame demonstrably bad play
calling on an qb with erratic accuracy,
graybeard
wrote:
>One way or another, this should be his last year as OC of the NYJ.
One way or another I think it will be. If the offense does not improve
dramatically, Schott should be replaced as OC. If the offense morphs
into a world beater, surely he will be hired away by a team looking for
a young HC. Del Rio for one is on oxygen this year.
--
graybeard
Johnny Morongo
John C TX
John C TX
> On 9/7/2011 11:47 AM, graybeard wrote:
>
>
> >> One way or another, this should be his last year as OC of the NYJ.
>
> > One way or another I think it will be. If the offense does not improve
> > dramatically, Schott should be replaced as OC. If the offense morphs
> > into a world beater, surely he will be hired away by a team looking for
> > a young HC. Del Rio for one is on oxygen this year.
>
> Totally.
Schott's contract is up. I doubt Ryan renews it unless they get to
the final game.
John C TX
> "graybeard" <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:5ite671ldm8rdv3ch...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> >>"Johnny Morongo" <Moro...@Burf.com> wrote in message
Papa I can't think of one Schott supporter in here but there a several
like myself that have pointed out some obvious shortcomings the guys
has dealt with in his tenure. I never liked the hire as I didn't like
Mangini because they hadn't done anything. In true jet fashion they
did it all too late. Also why promote a guy from QB coach to OC?
Remember that guy we had under Herm & Herm himself who went from DB
coach to DC. I did drink the Kool -Aid after year one w/ Mangini & did
like some of the things the offense did but I don't ever remember
writing that he was good just that it was unclear.
What I always found odd was how people would blame Schott when our
average receiving corps (until last year average is kind) would drop
passes, Sanchez would miss wide open players, Ryan would make changes,
& on & on w/ issues that were not Schott's doing & passed his control
& still blame him. There are Jet fans that say fill in the blank
players on offense suck & still blame Schott. Hell last year some
guys were trashing the OL for too many penalties blame Schott & the
next sentence was promote Callahan. They are both to blame.
Year one he did OK with Penington & no RB
Year two the offense struggled with Clemens & no offensive line
Year three he had Favre who basically ran his own offense & they
played well not perfect but better. Then Favre played hurt & poorly
to keep his streak alive and it was Schott's fault. Many Jets players
thought the offense was ready to go with Pennigton but you had a team
that needed to sell PSLs. Good thing Favre got hurt or we might still
have Mangini.
Year four rookie Sanchez who was so bad REX shut him down completely.
Year five Sanchez improved & the offense improved.
I still contend that there are few offensive coaches that can make an
offense look good w/ a bad or average QB. I also think that there are
few great OC's & most get found out & get a head coaching job which
may be an indictment of Schott or may be it is an indictment of
Sanchez. If Sanchez improves we will as well.
Papa Carl
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5fca77fb-f292-4434...@b10g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
attacked unmercifully and mocked with all the "It's Shcott's fault crap"
like a second grader on the playground. That somehow made me believe those
who were committed to that were Schott supporters...pardon me for thinking
that. I saw him as a huge problem...period, regardless of who the QB was.
And now...no matter if Sanchez succeeds this year or fails miserably a case
can be made that he failed under Schotts guidance. I can not understand
how Rex kept him if it was his decision and not Woody's. I just have never
seen any cohesion in the offense no matter who the QB was.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
who other than schotty and only schotty can you point at for regularly
calling morinic plays that dont fit the circumstances... much of the
time at game critical times... keep in mind, this habbit spans
multiple coaching regimes and multipe QB's.
he does not have ownership over directing an offense on his feet. he
directs his offense throuhg his shoe box of fancy plays.
Ritchie
I doubt that it is up to Ryan. Ryan may be the HC but Woody likes
Schott and IMO forced him on Ryan. Woody will have the last word on if
Schott comes back or not.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
that was my thinking last year too, but i think rex earned himself
some political capitol these past two years. it is fair to say that
rex is the biggest sports figure in the NYC metro area right now. if
rex wants him gone, im fairly sure woody will bend.
John C TX
> X-No-Archive: Yes
> times that is difficult but that behavior was as much abused by the
> anti-schott side as well. "That" group seemed to feel the need to
> start 3 or 4 threads justifying their position & then would get
> annoyed if challenge.
>
> I will read all day when people talk about football but the level of
> discourse on Schott borders on imbecilic. I would read some of what
> some people wrote & wonder if they even watched the game. A very big
> Schott hater, like you, would have some serious questions about play
> calling, personnel use, etc. and discuss them. That same guy who
> dislikes Schott would laugh about the ad hoc attacks on Schott
> ignoring the shortcomings of fumbles, dropped passes, etc. So many of
> the criticisms are simply fallacious.
>
> Like talk radio, & myself at times, they come up with a position &
> can't ever step back.
> >That somehow made me believe those
> > who were committed to that were Schott supporters...pardon me for thinking
> > that. I saw him as a huge problem...period, regardless of who the QB was.
> > And now...no matter if Sanchez succeeds this year or fails miserably a case
> > can be made that he failed under Schotts guidance. I can not understand
> > how Rex kept him if it was his decision and not Woody's. I just have never
> > seen any cohesion in the offense no matter who the QB was.
>
> Sanchez, Ryan or all of them. I would love to know what Ryan thinks of
> Schott. Bringing in Moore tells me he doesn't think too much of him
> some of things they do. Other things like Hunter playing TE to me
> tells me that Ryan has his hand in the offense 7 is Schott or Ryan
> not being true to themselves but I unlike some I realize I don't know.
& no I won't ever proofread my BS.
Johnny Morongo
>> I would agree there is a problem and time will tell if it is Schhott,
>> Sanchez, Ryan or all of them. I would love to know what Ryan thinks of
>> Schott. Bringing in Moore tells me he doesn't think too much of him
>> some of things they do. Other things like Hunter playing TE to me
>> tells me that Ryan has his hand in the offense 7 is Schott or Ryan
>> not being true to themselves but I unlike some I realize I don't know.
>
> & no I won't ever proofread my BS.
>
Papa Carl
X-No-Archive: Yes
times that is difficult but that behavior was as much abused by the
anti-schott side as well. "That" group seemed to feel the need to
start 3 or 4 threads justifying their position & then would get
annoyed if challenge.
I will read all day when people talk about football but the level of
discourse on Schott borders on imbecilic. I would read some of what
some people wrote & wonder if they even watched the game. A very big
Schott hater, like you, would have some serious questions about play
calling, personnel use, etc. and discuss them. That same guy who
dislikes Schott would laugh about the ad hoc attacks on Schott
ignoring the shortcomings of fumbles, dropped passes, etc. So many of
the criticisms are simply fallacious.
Like talk radio, & myself at times, they come up with a position &
can't ever step back.
> who were committed to that were Schott supporters...pardon me for thinking
> that. I saw him as a huge problem...period, regardless of who the QB was.
> And now...no matter if Sanchez succeeds this year or fails miserably a
> case
> can be made that he failed under Schotts guidance. I can not understand
> how Rex kept him if it was his decision and not Woody's. I just have never
> seen any cohesion in the offense no matter who the QB was.
Sanchez, Ryan or all of them. I would love to know what Ryan thinks of
Schott. Bringing in Moore tells me he doesn't think too much of him
some of things they do. Other things like Hunter playing TE to me
tells me that Ryan has his hand in the offense 7 is Schott or Ryan
not being true to themselves but I unlike some I realize I don't know.
says it ALL ! You simply do not do this in a ego driven game if you have
confidence in what the OC is doing. It is a huge kick in the face for
Schott and the only reason the media is not hammering away on this is
because of who Schott is and hid Daddy. This is flat out saying they need a
consultant to oversee the job someone else is supposed to be doing. In
corporate life, when they bring in the big consultant team...some guys
figure it's time to look for a job. I just hope Moore has an impact.
And...I would bet this move was a compromise ( I said guess, bet on it not
know for sure!) to keep everyone happy...meaning Woody, rather than fire
Schott now. Nobody can look back at least season's decisions and like what
the man did...and if it IS the QB, and all the QB...they need to say it and
make a move there.
John C TX
:)
I think TX has become CA. Droughts, fire & pray that our governor is
schtupping his maid. 4 years of another Texan is not a distraction
this country needs.
Papa Carl
That's it...it's all Texas fault !
Damn...it does not stop raining here. I'm starting the ark later
tonight...have it ready.
Stay safe down there.
John C TX
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:c1682767-1864-4daa...@r8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Thanks, send the rain.
It is pretty bad in central & east TX. THe pine trees come back in
10 years the loss oof the hardwoods is tough.
John C TX
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:89f2cea2-0441-4e5f...@x11g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
his abilities if they brought in Moore. The only other alternative to
his old man is that $2MM in salary (why?) or that Rex is loyal & is
trying to make him a good coach.
Papa Carl
ground. In some areas it looks like the rivers have created a new path for
themselves.
Papa Carl
that make him look good. He has some connection to Schott...either directly
or he is tight with his father. I remember very well a situation I was
close to. An offensive coord. who had been around for a long time in a
program was definitely slipping...but he had a strong connection with the
organization...the HC brought in a former player of his, college QB and much
younger...that guy just stepped in and took over...the OC was left to hang
out with the defensive staff and moan....really the only reason I was upset
was I didn't want him hanging our with us :-) But there it was...a guy who
had been OC for over a decade was running the look squad for the defense.
No words...no discussions...just did it. And...the guy was still the
OC...still got paid etc. Let's see how the season progresses....will Moore
take over more decisions as things unfold and if something goes
badly...watch for Moore to move in and really take over. Only a guess.
John C TX
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1eb21312-34cc-4f22...@h6g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
graybeard
Schott has a problem if he is offered the HC job of the Jags but doesn't
get any other offers. He already turned down the Bills. You can only
turn away so many suitors before they stop asking you to the dance.
--
graybeard
Papa Carl
"Papa Carl" <papa...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:QPWdnQIZTcY6g_TT...@giganews.com...
Papa Carl
clearly better.
Ritchie
> X-No-Archive: Yes
> Ryan was hired. You may be correct but what you just wrote is a leap
> at best.
Relax, no need for getting your underwear all bunched up. I said it is
MY OPINION. Schott was here before Ryan (Mangini brought him in) and
even though he signed after Ryan, it is my belief that Schott was
pushed on Ryan by Woody. I also think that is the opinion of some here.
Papa Carl
"Ritchie" <ritch...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:def7e10b-00f5-41cb...@j19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Yup Ritchie...it's mine and always has been. I still remember how I felt
seeing all the photos of Woody and old man Schott hanging together...Woody
likes being included in the old school stuff and I believe they share some
deep political beliefs too.
John C TX
conclusion and worst case a guess.
Ryan cleaned house when he arrived. He kept Westhoff & Sutton- who
took a demotion. Why would Johnson after paying all that money to
Ryan force an expensive OC down his throat? Maybe but you don't know.
John C TX
splash with the coaching hire. They just cut their QB days before the
opener there won't be many heroes down there for some time.
Johnny Morongo
target for LA.
Johnny Morongo
> On Sep 8, 11:12 am, Johnny Morongo<Moro...@Burf.com> wrote:
>> On 9/8/2011 9:02 AM, John C TX wrote:
>>
>>>> I would agree there is a problem and time will tell if it is Schhott,
>>>> Sanchez, Ryan or all of them. I would love to know what Ryan thinks of
>>>> Schott. Bringing in Moore tells me he doesn't think too much of him
>>>> some of things they do. Other things like Hunter playing TE to me
>>>> tells me that Ryan has his hand in the offense 7 is Schott or Ryan
>>>> not being true to themselves but I unlike some I realize I don't know.
>>
>>> & no I won't ever proofread my BS.
>>
>> Well at least you got one part right. ;)
>
>
> :)
>
> I think TX has become CA. Droughts, fire& pray that our governor is
> this country needs.
Johnny Morongo
>>> coach to DC. I did drink the Kool -Aid after year one w/ Mangini& did
>>> writing that he was good just that it was unclear.
>>
>>> What I always found odd was how people would blame Schott when our
>>> average receiving corps (until last year average is kind) would drop
>>> passes, Sanchez would miss wide open players, Ryan would make changes,
>>> guys were trashing the OL for too many penalties blame Schott& the
>>
>>> Year two the offense struggled with Clemens& no offensive line
>>> Year three he had Favre who basically ran his own offense& they
>>> played well not perfect but better. Then Favre played hurt& poorly
>>> thought the offense was ready to go with Pennigton but you had a team
>>> that needed to sell PSLs. Good thing Favre got hurt or we might still
>>> have Mangini.
>>> Year four rookie Sanchez who was so bad REX shut him down completely.
>>> I still contend that there are few offensive coaches that can make an
>>> offense look good w/ a bad or average QB. I also think that there are
>>> Sanchez. If Sanchez improves we will as well.
>>
>>> Hmmm. If there were no Schott supporters then why did some of us get
>>> attacked unmercifully and mocked with all the "It's Shcott's fault crap"
>>> like a second grader on the playground.
>>
>> Papa I can't speak for anyone but myself and if my wife is around at
>> times that is difficult but that behavior was as much abused by the
>> anti-schott side as well. "That" group seemed to feel the need to
>>
>> I will read all day when people talk about football but the level of
>> discourse on Schott borders on imbecilic. I would read some of what
>> calling, personnel use, etc. and discuss them. That same guy who
>> dislikes Schott would laugh about the ad hoc attacks on Schott
>> ignoring the shortcomings of fumbles, dropped passes, etc. So many of
>> the criticisms are simply fallacious.
>>
>
> Rex is not an altruistic type guy. He does things that he wants to do and
> that make him look good. He has some connection to Schott...either directly
> or he is tight with his father. I remember very well a situation I was
> close to. An offensive coord. who had been around for a long time in a
> program was definitely slipping...but he had a strong connection with the
> organization...the HC brought in a former player of his, college QB and much
> younger...that guy just stepped in and took over...the OC was left to hang
> out with the defensive staff and moan....really the only reason I was upset
> was I didn't want him hanging our with us :-) But there it was...a guy who
> had been OC for over a decade was running the look squad for the defense.
> No words...no discussions...just did it. And...the guy was still the
> OC...still got paid etc. Let's see how the season progresses....will Moore
> take over more decisions as things unfold and if something goes
> badly...watch for Moore to move in and really take over. Only a guess.
>
>
thought the offensive game plan and calling were a cut above normal
Schott. Maybe he cam be taught. It's really HIS third year too, under
Rex. Lets see if he can get better as well as Sanchez, another guy in
the third year.
John C TX
He is too honest but what a breath of fresh air.
graybeard
<johnc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sep 9, 12:47�pm, Johnny Morongo <Moro...@Burf.com> wrote:
>> On 9/8/2011 9:20 AM, John C TX wrote:
>>
>> > ... 4 years of another Texan is not a distraction
>> > this country needs.
>>
>> Not even if it's Ron Paul?
>
>He is too honest ...
And thus not likely to ever get elected.
--
graybeard
Papa Carl
"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:gbkn6715k7g51rtt2...@4ax.com...
he thinks, but he's still a little whacked IMHO...but he does get my
interest. And John...I agree....Perry is a nightmare...the one time
Democrat who was on the side of Al Gore flips quite often...it appears he
has now gone to the Marjo Gortner Academy of Evangelism to learn his public
speaking skills. He'd be best served with mustard on a bun.