Re: who gets hurt with the lockout
Ray O'Hara
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:99f8e179-2f61-454e...@34g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
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>
everybody loses, the money is never recouped.
but I can't believe any NFL team isn't making money.
their idea of losing money is not the usual view.
Art Model left Cleveland because he was "losing 10 million dollars a year"
the truth was he was making $40 million but felt he should be making $50
million so he was in his view losing 10 million.
when an owners says losing he just means "i'm not making as much as I want"
Papa Carl
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:99f8e179-2f61-454e...@34g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
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>
> control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> Fitness
>
> It is probably overrated except for the weight training. Running
> sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July. I
> hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym. My guess is that
> most pros have that mental toughness.
I really disagree here...running in April and May does have a lot to do with
how you are in July....staying in shape is a much better option than trying
to get into shape in a hurry. Not necessarily game shape, but good shape,
especially cardio wise. I think SOME players will be OK...not linemen so
much, that's why they routinely come back way overweight to begin
with...now, it will be a real crap shoot. But that will be across the
League.
>
> New players
>
> If we bring back everyone we have a leg up. I am sure Ducasse,
> Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> could be gone. Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> 3-4 or 4-3 end. I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> they just run 2011 as they did 2010. If lose both the lockout hurts
> Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> This lockout sucks.
>
> btw did the world end?
If they lose Holmes AND Edwards...they better pack it in and get ready for
last place. I like Smith....but not how they used him in the offense so
much. I even like the Wildcat a lot...but not the way they ran it...so he
can go I guess.
Michael
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> I am so bored without being able to worry about things I have zero
> control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> Fitness
>
> It is probably overrated except for the weight training. Running
> sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July. I
> hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym. My guess is that
> most pros have that mental toughness.
>
>
> If we bring back everyone we have a leg up. I am sure Ducasse,
> Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> could be gone. Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> 3-4 or 4-3 end. I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> they just run 2011 as they did 2010. If lose both the lockout hurts
> Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> This lockout sucks.
>
> btw did the world end?
i think since the jets have so many players in contract limbo, that is
the real area to look to as far as what is good/bad for the jets
relative to other teams. will a shortened player-team contract
negotiation be in the jets favor ??? of course, the respective
circumstances of each player in question has to be considerded. i
think though, there is some reason to think it helps the jets. since
some legal paper is already in place between the guys in limbo and
the jets, a shortened negotiation period seems like it might favor the
jets. also... take into consideration the ability and skills of the
GM. tanny appears to be very capable. under a time disadvantage,
tanny gets the edge over a competing GM/team. Sort of thin, but what
the heck.
John C TX
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:99f8e179-2f61-454e...@34g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
>
> > X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > I am so bored without being able to worry about things I have zero
> > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > Fitness
>
> > It is probably overrated except for the weight training. Running
> > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July. I
> > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym. My guess is that
> > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> I really disagree here...running in April and May does have a lot to do with
> how you are in July....staying in shape is a much better option than trying
> to get into shape in a hurry. Not necessarily game shape, but good shape,
> especially cardio wise.
I agree. I should have been clearer in what I wrote. Obviously
working out, moving around & improving cardio is preferred but
building up speed in April & May will disappear by July w/o a plan.
So if they keep working when they leave the Jets before pre-season
logic tells you they will keep running w/o them right now? I am
assuming that they will run w/o the Jets.
Either way I was glad to read that many of them were in structured
programs like the type of workouts LT did last summer.
> I think SOME players will be OK...not linemen so
> much, that's why they routinely come back way overweight to begin
> with...now, it will be a real crap shoot. But that will be across the
> League.
>
>
>
> > New players
>
> > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up. I am sure Ducasse,
> > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > could be gone. Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> > 3-4 or 4-3 end. I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > they just run 2011 as they did 2010. If lose both the lockout hurts
> > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > This lockout sucks.
>
> > btw did the world end?
>
> If they lose Holmes AND Edwards...they better pack it in and get ready for
> last place. I like Smith....but not how they used him in the offense so
> much. I even like the Wildcat a lot...but not the way they ran it...so he
> can go I guess.
I think they can be OK with one of them. I prefer Holmes as Edwards
makes some great plays but still has the dropsies.
I won't rehash Smith as QB as sometime it looks great & other times it
doesn't. I agree with you. Why they don't run it until they stop
makes little sense. What a great way of wearing out a defense & then
bring in Sanchez. I would also get Sanchez off the field.
What I never understood with Smith is how a guy with his athletic
talents still has trouble catching the ball. I can't ever remember him
fumbling. If he leaves and becomes a star receiver I will fly up & we
can hang Schott together.
paddy_nyr
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> I am so bored without being able to worry about things I have zero
> control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> Fitness
>
> It is probably overrated except for the weight training. Running
> sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July. I
> hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym. My guess is that
> most pros have that mental toughness.
>
>
> If we bring back everyone we have a leg up. I am sure Ducasse,
> Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> could be gone. Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> 3-4 or 4-3 end. I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> they just run 2011 as they did 2010. If lose both the lockout hurts
> Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> This lockout sucks.
>
> btw did the world end?
>
The teams with new head coaches, new offensive and defensive
coordinators, new QB's, and of course all rookies are the teams who
get hurt the most. The rest of the teams are in the same boat.
The end of the world has been pushed back by 5 months, so you still
have time.
Michael
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I am so bored without being able to worry about things I have zero
> > > control over like the Jets that I was wondering if the lockout
> > > actually helps us relative to other teams.
>
> > > Fitness
>
> > > It is probably overrated except for the weight training. Running
> > > sprints in April probably doesn't translate into fitness in July. I
> > > hope the jets have the discipline to be in the gym. My guess is that
> > > most pros have that mental toughness.
>
> > > New players
>
> > > If we bring back everyone we have a leg up. I am sure Ducasse,
> > > Wilkerson, & Ellis are being held back.
>
> > > My guess is we definitely lose Brad Smith so the Wildcat or Seminole
> > > could be gone. Shaun Ellis could be snapped up by a team that needs a
> > > 3-4 or 4-3 end. I bet we keep Holmes or Edwards but not both unless
> > > they just run 2011 as they did 2010. If lose both the lockout hurts
> > > Patrick Turner, Logan Payne, etc. if they have to play.
>
> > > This lockout sucks.
>
> > > btw did the world end?
>
> > i think since the jets have so many players in contract limbo, that is
> > the real area to look to as far as what is good/bad for the jets
> > relative to other teams. will a shortened player-team contract
> > negotiation be in the jets favor ???
>
> more difficult for players to test the market but it may also make
> teams impulsive. The guy I worry about the most is Shaun Ellis.
>
> >of course, the respective
> > circumstances of each player in question has to be considerded. i
> > think though, there is some reason to think it helps the jets. since
> > some legal paper is already in place between the guys in limbo and
> > the jets, a shortened negotiation period seems like it might favor the
> > jets. also... take into consideration the ability and skills of the
> > GM. tanny appears to be very capable. under a time disadvantage,
> > tanny gets the edge over a competing GM/team. Sort of thin, but what
> > the heck.
>
>
> :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well... Gholston was not Tanny... It was Mangini. Mangold, Keller and
Revis were also Mangini. David Harris was, I think, the Jets LB coach
all the way...
If Tanny is as good as I suspect, a short negotiating period is "sauce
for the goose".
Papa Carl
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:b0602bdf-a6af-4ea8...@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
How do we know any of this????? How can we say who brought in who? I have
never seen an offical print out saying this stuff....I'm curious, who does
it come from? How do we know?
John C TX
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
What he said.
Michael
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
no way to prove it in court, papa...
a few bits of circumstantial evidence
David harris: at the time he was drafted, jim herrmann, the jets LB
coach at the time.. who came from MI, took Harris along with him to
the Jets via the draft. I'm not going to rummage the net for you, but
there were a number of articles in the papers at the time reporting in
herrmann selling Harris to the Jets for the draft. just like the way
Callahan took slauson along to the jets from the huskers via the draft
nick mangold. he was ALL mangini. again... Im not going to produce
court ready proof for you. mangini light up like a Christmas tree
when discussing mangold. he was the "character" guy that he has his
eye on all the way. he also spoke of his beliefe that a team needs to
be build from the inside out. he did the same when he selected alex
mac as the center for the browns. i watched mack play last season and
felt that he would be regarded as an elite center in short order.
alex mack was all mangini just like mangold was.
revis: his draft was almost a no brainer, but mangini himself said he
was our guy. nothing solid at all i can give you here other than
mangini agreed they wanted him
gholston: article after article and report after report... mangini did
not want him to slip to the patriots. it was a fear pick. he was off
ballance.
another fact to keep in mind about who gets credit for draft picks.
it is reported time over.. clearly... tanny is a money and cap guy.
he plays little to no part in selecting the groceries. he just
handles the contracts
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
John... Explain to me first..
"Are we talking about the Gholston/ McKnight GM or the David Harris
GM?"
prove to me it was tanny behind Gholston and Harris.
tanny least of all makes player decisions. that very well know. he's
a contract and cap guy. he does not evaluate players.
Papa Carl
Personally, I think it's more a bunch of guys talk about who is
available...and somebody knows something about somebody, suggests they may
be good...then the talent guys have at it, scouts etc. I don't think any
one person makes the decision or brings a guy in...I'll bet it's more of a
process. OMHO
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
agree 100 %. even if callahan suggested slauson as a late round guy
for the jets and herrmann made the pitch for harris, the decision had
to be agreed on by others... when you watch the war rooms on draft
day, they have a pile of people in them. even the team dr's and
conditioning guys are in on it in some cases. an interesting tid-bid
that i remember from watching the past few drafs... the pats war room
was shown to have the fewest people in in. the people covering the
draft also commented on that. i'm not sure what to make of that...
good or bad ??? you'd want to have a lot of guys on the scene, no ???
or perhaps they communicate by phone or teleconferance.
Papa Carl
Bottom line...nobody wants to get blamed all by themselves :-)
Papa Carl
Along those lines this was interesting. Certainly Kubiak & Phillips
are taking ownership.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/7575552.html
He loved watching Phillips dictate to scouts exactly what he was
looking for in the draft. Kubiak said other defensive coordinators he
has worked with trimmed a list of 500 or so potential draft picks to
maybe 50 or 60. Instead, Phillips got it down to 15 or 20, and the
Texans walked away from the draft with five of them.
"It was locked in before we went to draft day," Kubiak said. "He knew
exactly what he wanted."
A head coach can take that risk...if he can have the power, like Tuna, he
can take the risk to do the shopping..but all of the rest have a much higher
power to answer to...the HC...so their input must be limited. My big
concern about the Jets is how much the owner has to say about things. He
seems very involved at that level...no obnoxious, but sort of like Jerry
Jones is involved. But that was just from observations and the HBO deal...I
have no idea. I do think they made some good decisions of late, and a few
bad ones with the verdict still out really.
Michael
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:8c2f187c-0dc1-4874...@m40g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
jets have the best cb in the game.. some call him the best defensive
player in the league. jets have one of the best ILB's. they have
the best center in the league and one of the best rout running TE's.
they have a 6th round pick panning out as their staring guard. all
throught the draft. not too shabby. their FA moves have all turned
out to be gold... santonio cost them little and contributed to an
elite level. and *I* thougth he was a bad move. edwards has also
been a great addition as has LT. they have done a stunning job
despite gholston. not just fan bluster... i am astounded at how well
they have done. the only think you can fault them for is depth issues
at a few positions. if wilkerson and or k. ellis work out, you could
make a argument that the jets should get the credit that the pats are
given for being heads up with manpower
Michael
> > can take the risk to do the shopping..but all of the rest have a much higher
> > power to answer to...the HC...so their input must be limited. My big
> > concern about the Jets is how much the owner has to say about things. He
> > seems very involved at that level...no obnoxious, but sort of like Jerry
> > Jones is involved. But that was just from observations and the HBO deal...I
> > have no idea. I do think they made some good decisions of late, and a few
> > bad ones with the verdict still out really.
>
>
> Last year's draft is critical in deciding if they are good. They could
> possibly have a starting CB, RT, contributing TB & FB for years to
> come. They also could all suck.
If Kubiak is toast, I hope he comes to the Jets.
Michael
>
> Denver RB's attributable to Kubiak?
>
> I would take him in a second as an OC. The offense in some ways would
> be perfect for Sanchez in some ways woth the roll outs -- they lessen
> the roll outs because Schaub moves like a barge-- but he has to make
> his throws and there are some short drops.
>
> Kubiak's flaw, if you want to call it that, is that he is very loyal
> to guys he worked with in the past. The past DC just could not get it
> done and was a bad hire. The owner goes cheap- IMHO- at times and that
> may have drove that decision but they hired him the same year Greg
> Williams got hired in NO and there is another big name elsewhere that
> escapes me.
I don’t follow the Texans, but the bits I have been exposed to as far
as Kubiak... Texans fans seem to agree that he can run and offense,
but they want his hands off of everything else. He's the U.S. Grant
of football coaches. A capable man by trade, but don’t let him staff
the administration. I REALLY liked what their offense did vs. the
Jets. I was at the game. They do some real nifty things.
As far as what is good for Sanchez... And I think I might have said
before.... A *PERFECT* fit would be the offense that the Redskins ran
when Theisman was there and they won the Championships. No frills
straight ahead running with counter tray and chips thrown in when you
get the defense on their heels. And... Take advantage of your QB's
mobility by taking your shots deep when the defense is forced to play
up. Theisman could move and buy they time needed and so can Sanchez.
That exact offense with provisions worked in for the new ways
offensive lineman work would be IDEAL. Kubiak's offense is sort of a
fancy version of that. Tight sets, power running, fooling people and
running to the edges and explosive passing plays called with great
instinct.
Papa Carl
OH....agree that Redskins offense...but wait, that guy WAS at the Jets once
and they let him go to hire The Preacher. Still, Henning is retired
now....maybe you can go and talk him into coming back. You never know
Michael, he may listen to you. Doug Williams gives all the credit for his
success that year to DH. I'd LOVE to see Kubiak as the OC in Jetsislandia.
John C TX
Kubiak does some interesting things. He runs some very similar sets
to Schott at times . They have tight formations w/ a FB & TE's in
obvious running. He also seems to be able to spread the defense &
then run in it. He passes out of both which even to this layman what
you need but he is very dependent on the FB. Their TE's aren't huge as
all: Daniels, Dreesen --cut by Mangini - - & Casey are Keller like.
We, meaning teh NYJ-- can't seem to do that consistently. It will be
interesting to see if we ever learn if it is the QB's shortcomings/
inexperience or the OC. You better hope I am right that it is
Sanchez' inexperience & not Schott. Because he is back and if you
want to get rid of him it will only happen if we are really good or
really bad.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
John...
The I have re-diagnosed the problems with the Jets offense. I posted
this in another thread, but I decided to revise it a bit and give it
its own thread above...