AT, Clemens, & TE's
John C TX
carry 4 TE's. So when you Schott haters start teeing off on him this
year you may remember how you thought Rex was an offensive geniu s&
not Schott when teh running game clicked. There is no way that is
anything other than Rex.
Jets wait to sign Thomas due to contract rule
By BART HUBBUCH
Last Updated: 7:57 AM, August 31, 2010
Posted: 3:32 AM, August 31, 2010
Jets fans hoping to see Adalius Thomas in green and white Week 1
against the Ravens shouldn’t hold their breath.
That was the message yesterday from Jets coach Rex Ryan, who admitted
that the NFL rule requiring vested veterans to have their entire
salary guaranteed if they are on the Week 1 roster is keeping Thomas
from signing with Gang Green.
THOMAS: I CAN HELP JETS
It’s the same rule that prompted the Jets to cut wide receiver
Laveranues Coles last weekend, and it is hindering Ryan’s continuing
desire to replace outside linebacker Calvin Pace with the 33-year-old
Thomas, a 10-year veteran.
Pace — the Jets’ sack leader last year — was scheduled to undergo
surgery yesterday afternoon on his broken foot and is expected to miss
4-to-6 weeks.
Thomas theoretically could sign now, get released before Week 1, then
rejoin the Jets starting with Week 2. Ryan, however, doubted the
former Raven and Patriots would do so.
"I don’t think any player would want that scenario," Ryan said. "Most
people are going to want that security [of a fully guaranteed
salary]."
Although Ryan still wants to sign Thomas, the contract holdup means
Vernon Gholston in particular will get a long look at Pace’s spot in
Thursday’s preseason finale at Philadelphia.
Pace is injured and All-Pro cornerback Darrelle Revis’ holdout shows
no sign of ending anytime soon, but Ryan is still predicting the Jets
will have a "great" defense this season.
"History is part of it," he said. "We can get it done. We’ve proved it
all through the years. That’s all I know is great defense. It’s not
about one guy or one or two guys. Every team is going to lose one or
two guys.
"We’ll get it done. This is what we do. We’re a team defense. That’s
why I know our defense will play great. There’s not even a question in
my mind we’ll play great."
Ryan said the Jets intend to dress just 36 players against the Eagles,
including kickers, punters and the long snapper.
Aside from Gholston, the only starting-caliber players who will play
are guard Matt Slauson, offensive lineman Wayne Hunter and wide
receiver Santonio Holmes, who is set to begin a four-game NFL drug
suspension immediately after this week’s exhibition.
Ryan surprised observers by predicting the Jets would be a true NFL
exception by keeping four tight ends on the regular-season roster:
Dustin Keller, Ben Hartsock, Matthew Mulligan and rookie free agent
Jeff Cumberland.
Prominent offseason addition Brodney Pool missed practice with an
ankle injury and won’t play Thursday.
That’s a significant red flag only because of Pool’s history of
chronic injuries with the Browns that forced the safety to miss six
games combined the past two seasons.
Clemens looks like he is on the team:
Ryan: 'Strong chance' backup QB Clemens makes Jets roster
By BART HUBBUCH
Last Updated: 7:26 AM, August 31, 2010
Posted: 2:45 AM, August 31, 2010
Rex Ryan defied conventional wisdom yesterday by saying backup
quarterback Kellen Clemens has "a pretty strong chance" to make the
Jets' regular-season roster.
The pronouncement from the Jets' coach was so surprising -- and went
so much against financial logic -- that even Clemens didn't seem to
put too much stock in it.
"When he says I've got a pretty good chance, then yeah, I feel I've
got a pretty good chance -- but he didn't say I was a lock," Clemens
said after practice. "So you have to take it for what it's worth."
THOMAS: I CAN HELP JETS
Clemens, a holdover from the Eric Mangini regime, also admitted he is
still stinging from what he perceives as unfair treatment by Ryan this
month when the coach named Mark Brunell the No. 2 quarterback just
days into training camp.
Asked by The Post yesterday if he had gotten a fair shot from Ryan,
Clemens said sarcastically: "To be the No. 3? Yes. There wasn't much
competition for the No. 2 spot."
Widespread belief around the NFL has the Jets, barring the unlikely
event of a trade, cutting Clemens at Saturday's roster deadline
because Ryan has soured on him and, more importantly, because of the
quarterback's 2010 salary.
Clemens is scheduled to earn almost $1.2 million this season. That's
more than All-Pro holdout Darrelle Revis' scheduled $1 million salary,
and teams rarely, if ever, keep a No. 3 quarterback at a rate that
high.
The Jets also are unlikely to keep four quarterbacks, meaning they
would have to get rid of intriguing prospect Kevin O'Connell to keep
Clemens. O'Connell no doubt would be snapped up by another team if the
Jets cut him or try to move him to the practice squad.
Clemens is aware of those factors.
"There's certain issues to keeping me," he said. "Obviously, I'm a
little more expensive than Kevin is. So they have to weigh that.
That's out of my control. We'll see how that all plays out."
Ryan announced that Brunell, Clemens and O'Connell -- in that order --
would all see playing time in Thursday's preseason finale at
Philadelphia, with starter Mark Sanchez sitting out.
Ryan then backed up his strong indication Clemens would be kept by
saying it "isn't critical" for the former second-round pick to play
well against the Eagles to keep his roster spot.
A more likely explanation for Ryan's unexpected pronouncement is that
the Jets are trying in vain to repair Clemens' trade value after they
publicly sabotaged it by proclaiming Brunell the top backup so early
in camp.
Clemens revealed that he was so upset about Ryan's Brunell
announcement that he needed "four or five days" to get over it.
Clemens also said he sought a closed-door meeting with Ryan during
training camp in Cortland to clear the air about what Clemens
considered the coach's broken promise of an open competition for the
No. 2 spot.
The meeting helped, Clemens said, prompting him to push forward and
put together what he described as his "best preseason ever." Clemens
said he feels that way even though he hasn't thrown for a touchdown in
two preseason appearances and didn't even play last Friday in the loss
to the Redskins.
Despite so much working against him to remain a Jet, Clemens said he
wants Ryan's words to prove true.
"I hope that I'm here," Clemens said, "and we'll just move forward
with whatever the results are come cut day on Saturday."
MZ
> Ryan basically says not signing AT is about the money and we will
> carry 4 TE's. So when you Schott haters start teeing off on him this
> year you may remember how you thought Rex was an offensive geniu s&
> not Schott when teh running game clicked. There is no way that is
> anything other than Rex.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/24wvgq7
>
>
> Jets wait to sign Thomas due to contract rule
>
> By BART HUBBUCH
>
> Last Updated: 7:57 AM, August 31, 2010
>
> Posted: 3:32 AM, August 31, 2010
>
> Jets fans hoping to see Adalius Thomas in green and white Week 1
> against the Ravens shouldn’t hold their breath.
>
> That was the message yesterday from Jets coach Rex Ryan, who admitted
> that the NFL rule requiring vested veterans to have their entire
> salary guaranteed if they are on the Week 1 roster is keeping Thomas
> from signing with Gang Green.
I'm hoping like hell this plan backfires and AD signs somewhere else.
Dayum, Woody is CHEEEEEEAAAAAAAP!
Hammer
>
> - Show quoted text -
Why are we d--king around here? This whole thing is ridiculous.
The only good thing about all of this nonsense is that my confidence
level in the Jets and Jets management has plummeted to near zero, so
if and when they implode, it won't be a big letdown.
papa.carl44
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:06df45d3-e6a3-41d4...@f42g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Ryan basically says not signing AT is about the money and we will
carry 4 TE's. So when you Schott haters start teeing off on him this
year you may remember how you thought Rex was an offensive geniu s&
not Schott when teh running game clicked. There is no way that is
anything other than Rex.
John...what are you saying? This does't make sense to me.....can't Schott
make reccomendations Rex follows? Rex is NOT an offensive genious..he
coaches defense...and sometimes guys extend themselves and make
mistakes....He's probably keeping 4 TE's because he sees a weakness in a lot
of pass protection sets...that interior line is not ready.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:gNOdne-4jPBFkuDR...@giganews.com...
Very cheap....I'm thinking his hyping of Clowney was because Clowney is
cheap...he wants to see that all the inexpensive guys stay on the team.
That's how these guys think....it is the coaches job to make the "cheap
players" play like stars.
John C TX
wrote:
> "MZ" <m...@nospam.void> wrote in message
I am not saying that the Thomas move is not cheap & remember we don't
know what he wants but Clowney doesn't save any money.
John C TX
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:51:38 -0700 (PDT), John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> >> John...what are you saying? This does't make sense to me.....can't Schott
> >> make reccomendations Rex follows? Rex is NOT an offensive genious..he
> >> coaches defense...and sometimes guys extend themselves and make
> >> mistakes....He's probably keeping 4 TE's because he sees a weakness in a lot
> >> of pass protection sets...that interior line is not ready.
>
> >It could be he saw something or it could be that is the type of
> >offense that the jets --Rex-- want sto run. You rarely saw 2 TE
> >formations before last year when they started lining Turner up and
> >that includes when we had Baker, Franks & Keller. Now we are keeping
> >4?
>
> To me, the 4 TEs has everything to do with the weakness of the OL.
I agree that we have issues there. Woody & Moore, especially Woody,
are average to poor. Slauson has to play well. If it is related to the
problems they see on the OL or the type of risks they will take with
Sanchez I don't know.
I do know that when you have 7 guys blocking on or near the line and 3
in the backfield it is very easy to throw double coverage on the one
WR. This is dramatically different then what we were seeing 2-3 years
ago.
>
>
>
> >My post was half tongue in cheek in reference the Schott lynch mob was
> >giving the credit to the revived offense at the end of the year to
> >Rex. Part of me wonders if Rex is trying to run an offense he wants
> >to see as is his right as head coach.
>
> I don't remember a revived offense ;)
> Nor do I remember any Schott realists giving credit to Rex, for anything O related.
It doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
> I do remember reading reports from the Media, that Rex got more involved with Sanchez.
> And they said, he helped Sanchez stay within himself, which lessened the turnovers.
Stay within himself? Rex almost ran on the field & tackled him one
game when he didn't call a time out when the defense looked ready.
They shut him down. They almost put him in the gimp suit & stuck a
red ball in his mouth. Punts became preferable to going for it on 3rd
& long. He was that bad at times.
John C TX
> To me, Rex gave the O reins to Schott, from the beginning. He only has final say on
> players, & gameplans, as HC. If Schott says he wants Clowney over Henry, Schott gets what
> he wants, even if Westhoff hates the guy.
B, how would you know?
> My only consolation, as far as the O goes, is that Callahan is the OL coach. He's the
> only O coach, with any credibility, and probably has a piece of Rex's ear.
As for Callahan he may be a better OL coach then we had but what has
ever made him stand out as an offensive coach? Maybe Oakland but that
is a big maybe. He didn't do much early on as OC and only lasted 2
years as head coach. No one in the Big 12 was worried about playing
him.
papa.carl44
X-No-Archive: Yes
> John...what are you saying? This does't make sense to me.....can't Schott
> make reccomendations Rex follows? Rex is NOT an offensive genious..he
> coaches defense...and sometimes guys extend themselves and make
> mistakes....He's probably keeping 4 TE's because he sees a weakness in a
> lot
> of pass protection sets...that interior line is not ready.
>
I am saying that Schott's formations got tighter & tighter last year.
It could be he saw something or it could be that is the type of
offense that the jets --Rex-- want sto run. You rarely saw 2 TE
formations before last year when they started lining Turner up and
that includes when we had Baker, Franks & Keller. Now we are keeping
4?
My post was half tongue in cheek in reference the Schott lynch mob was
giving the credit to the revived offense at the end of the year to
Rex. Part of me wonders if Rex is trying to run an offense he wants
to see as is his right as head coach.
I always think formations get tighter and tighter when you can't protect the
QB...if that starts now...they be in some serious trouble. This is a throw,
throw, throw game now....I think there are ways you can run a double
TE...double wide set....but it would be like going to the wildcat as your
regular offense....it takes a really creative OC...and technically if you
just move the two TE's to the tight slot it becomes a version of run and
shoot....then by using RB's to their fullest you can do some good run stuff
too...I'm thinking what I would do...not what I think Schott will do.
Michael
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:d78b2b5b-0c2a-483d...@q2g2000yqq.googlegroups.com...
with a qb that moves like sanchez and the other offensive assets they
have, i'd run an offense similar to what the thiesman redskins did.
papa.carl44
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ed1407bf-1161-4802...@v41g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
I have to think about that....may be interesting...where's the really big
fullback, ball carrier...the John Riggins type?
papa.carl44
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ed1407bf-1161-4802...@v41g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
Now...I thought..interesting...because two names pop up...Joe Bugel and Dan
Henning..both part of that overall era and had a big part in designing that
offense...and it worked with QB's other than Joe T.
John C TX
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:d78b2b5b-0c2a-483d...@q2g2000yqq.googlegroups.com...
Papa, if that is the case we should be worried but that started last
year when they were using Turner & Hartsock. It is just to easy at the
pro level to defend everything has been going to spreading the field.
This guy Cumberland can evidently run, jump & catch. It will be
interesting too see how often he gets on the field with Keller.
John C TX
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:32:22 -0700 (PDT), John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> To me, Rex gave the O reins to Schott, from the beginning. He only has final say on
> >> players, & gameplans, as HC. If Schott says he wants Clowney over Henry, Schott gets what
> >> he wants, even if Westhoff hates the guy.
>
> >B, how would you know?
>
Really, those words? I guess it makes sense in how frequently the
offense is on the field but you hope that there is some give & take.
We have been fortunate that guys like Brad Smith that make some
contribution on offense and are great special team players. You do
realize that the guy Taylor who would make it over Clowney has looked
very pedestrian. I wonder what Westhoff sees in Taylor..
Michael
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
I like that style of offense. It is a real "football" offense.
Plenty of power running between the tackles, but at the same time, it
has its sophistcated aspects. You had the run actually setting up the
run. After a good dose of no frills powering it up the gut, the
defense would commit to crashing the gaps with LB's. Then they would
run the old counter gap and wind up getting those 15 yard running
gains. I remember Joe Walton tried to run an offense like that with
the Jets. The big issues there was O'Brien. Obviously a good pocket
passer, but he could not move like Thiesman or Sanchez. I think the
current Jets could pull it off well. Sanchez would be ideal, I
guess. What I also remember is that the teams that ran that style of
offense well had very good pass blocking offensive tackles. Though
Moore and Slauson could pretend to be Bostic and Grimm, I dont think
Brick could pretend to be Jacoby :-)
John C TX
Riggins was state champ in the 100 for two years. It wasn't TX or CA
but the guy could run outside.
John C TX
> involved... other than in spurts ;)
It seems to be the only pass he can complete in pre-season.
John C TX
It doesn't mean he has free reign. Ryan for all his bluster is very
respectful of his coaches even ones he subsequently sacks.
>
> I don't think it's Taylor, but Woodhead vs Clowney.
> Taylor, judging by how's he looked to me, must have a copy of that pic that Coleman has of
> Woody.
> I think Westhoof sees hard work & determination, the opposite of what he sees in Clowney.
Who knows what he sees but Taylor looks like he sucks & he is small.
Woodhead never looked that bad.
>
> Talkin' of ST players, just read that Wallace Wright injured himself, and is gone for the
> season. Too bad for him... I always figured if he did his ST thing long enough, he'd
> finallly get a chance somewhere at WR.
I am guessing he didn' t have much if he couldn't get on the field
last year.
>
> By the way, since you mentioned Brad... he's one of the reasons I'm so down on Schott.
> He's never really gotten a handle, on how to utilize Brad's diverse talents, other than
> pedestrian trick plays, at obvious times. At the very least, Brad should be on the field
> more, so that Ds can't key on him for the trick play, when he comes in.
Smith was held back with all the time they wasted him at QB. I am not
sure what genius -- I am assuming Mangini or Tannebaum but it could be
Schott -- wanted to preserve a roster spot by having him as a backup
QB.
As for Smith's use, in 2008 he played quite a bit. He touhced the
ball 44 times but was used in motion effectively. Last year when they
went to 14 TE's he didn't get as many catches but ultimately ran it
more when they went wildcat. Like I said I think you are seeing Rex'
influence on the offense. He said he wanted a team that can play in
bad weather.
papa.carl44
Then they are using them, like Keller, as H backs or slot receivers and not
TE's really...what I was referring to was a real double TE set...two TE's in
the traditional situation...that is almost always to help with protection or
build the running game.
Michael
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:c37f1209-381a-4af5...@v41g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
mangini used to do that a lot in the pre-favre days if i remember
correctly. though, it was more like using an extra offensive line
guy and not a bonafied two TE set. he had a sixth offensive line guy
line up in the two TE set. this way there were seven guys on the
line. two "A" gaps two "B" gaps and two "C" gaps.
John C TX
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:c37f1209-381a-4af5...@v41g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
I haven't watched much of the 2nd half so I can't tell you how they
use him. He is an impressive specimen not a built like Keller at all.
John C TX
I only remember that on obvious running plays. Maybe I am wrong maybe
these tight sets are Schotts.
John C TX
You know who had a hand in setting up that offense?
Your favorite Joe Walton as he was OC for Pardee from 77-80. I
thought they were hosed as the Redskins went cheap asking Riggins to
take a pay cut & he sat out 1980 costing both their jobs.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
that would explain why walton's offense looked the way it did. i
still wonder why he decided to go in that direction with o'brien as
the qb when he was with the jets. sure it is a great offense, but you
gotta work with what you have no ??? also... the run and shoot that
pardee ran with the oilers... how did he come to that ???
John C TX
Mouse Davis was his offensive coordinator for the Gamblers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_Davis
Pardee went to UH after that and it took off. I think they beat UT a
few times when he was there. He then brought it to the Oilers and had
the perfect QB in Moon. When Buddy Ryan came in one year to coach the
defense his complaint was that there was no TE so his defense never
went against one in practice. Pardee's last year they picked up a guy
from Washington off waivers, an Hback named Wycheck, and Pardee still
got fired.
papa.carl44
papa.carl44
John...you are acccurate..but I really think the stuff the Joe T will be
remembered for came after the Walton era...OMHO...that was the offense that
eventually became famous...and it was a very good offense too....I also
think there were aspects of that type of game present in the Joe Namath
years with the Jets....and....the core of that offense has it's roots all
the way back to Vince Lombardi. The Counter has it's development off the
power sweep....I went to a lot of coaching clinics where Bugel was a
presenter, one of the coaches I worked with borrowed a lot from that for the
offense we ran. Things evolve, it's an add and subtract kind of thing and
really good coaches do that changing based on the "groceries" they have at
the time. Again, OMHO Papa Carl
papa.carl44
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_Davis
Some of that spread and run and shoot stuff got a lot of hype from Jim
Garrett too....I went to a couple of his clinics on it....he was
different...all I can say.....a little strange in his presentation of
things....I always felt that the real way to stop all those spreads, but
especially the run and shoot was to blitz the Hell out of it and find out
how fast and shifty the Qb was...and how tough if you got him.
Michael
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:a535f5e2-e902-444e...@f42g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
the best jobs i have seen done on a run and shoot offense was done by
a 4-1-6 defense. The single LB spied the RB, four DB'd played man
with one DB in a shallow zone for help and one in a deep zone. of
course you need db's that can play man and a LB like Kyle Clifton. i
guess if you dont have guys that can play man, the next best option
would be lots of blitzing.
John C TX
> Some of that spread and run and shoot stuff got a lot of hype from Jim
> Garrett too....I went to a couple of his clinics on it....he was
> different...all I can say.....a little strange in his presentation of
> things....I always felt that the real way to stop all those spreads, but
> especially the run and shoot was to blitz the Hell out of it and find out
> how fast and shifty the Qb was...and how tough if you got him.
Mouse Davis even when he talks, well when he used to as time can
change a man's memory, admitted he didn't wake up one night and yell
"Eureka!" I don't know who Jim Garrett is but I am sure some clever
HS coach was running some variation someplace back in the 50's.
I saw a HS game last week. One ran a spread w/ 4 wide outs and the
other team defended it man to man & did exactly what you said. 7 v 5
& maybe 6 if teh TB picked up the blitz. It was a long night for the
spread. I see a lot of HS teams running a 4-2-5 defense because so
many are running some version of the spread.
Michael
the spread run and shoot stuff works well even in the playoffs for
high school teams. lots of them win championships with it. at higher
levels like pro style div one college and nfl, you can still beat
teams by big margins so long as the defense you are going against does
not have the defensive manpower or smarts to deal with that stuff.
but.. at the higher levels, when you put that type of offense against
a well manned and run defense, you don't have much a chance for that
offense to work. it is not all that complicated to play man and
flatten out the routs of 4 wr's especially if you play with a dime
defensive backfield and have decent DE's. it is a nail in the coffin
for that offense if you also have a spy LB that is a walking form
tackling clinic like Kyle Clifton. it is really a one trick pony kind
of an offense. Fun and exciting, but doomed to fail against the big
boys.
John C TX
At the pro level it can be one club in your bag. It really is great
running offense as well.
If I wanted to turn a college program around quickly I would use it in
a second. You can crack the top 25 with it you just can't win a BCS
bowl with it. It doesn't require great OL. You can get by with a good
QB not a great one. the good thiing about it too is you improve your
coverage on defense because your secondar has to go against 4 gnats
regularly in practice.
papa.carl44
Jim Garrett, father of Jason and Judd...former asst. of the Giants, Saints
and Browns....head coach at Columbia and several other colleges, including
Susquehana where he had a fantstic record...played at Utah...is from
Rutherford....once played fullback for the Eagles....He had issues at
Susquehana for hitting a player...that came back when he was at
Columbia....he supported the run and shoot stuff big time...and I always
felt explained it much better than Mouse or any of the others did.
papa.carl44
When the world league started it was all run and shoot...that was the
"identified offense" for the first year....that's where all the stars who
made it to the NFL came from.
John C TX
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:8eb3a92d-4a22-452a...@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
I remember when Columbia blew up on him. He had some success at
Princeton with his son. He has made a lot of money with that
Princeton degree.
Harlan Lachman
<8ac448f2-fd8c-4795...@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
As a Columbia alum, I decided our team never deserved to win another
game after the debacle of declaring that losing was acceptable.
For those ignorant about Columbia football, after several inspiring
games (including winning the Rose bowl, upsetting an undefeated Army
juggernaut in the early 50s on their own version of The Catch, and some
brilliant upsets by an Archie Roberts qb'd team, Columbia started
losing. horrifically. We could find ways to lose that would have made
hours long videos of freak plays, incredible decisions, bad luck, etc.
We even had the longest losing streak in the nation.
Garrett was brought in with his sons to turn it around. I think it was
in his first game that they were ahead, a huge upset in the making, I am
sorry I forget the opponent, the punter went in and whiffed at the ball.
Whiffed. The opponents went on to score. Garrett kicked the punter off
the team after making him apologize to the team. IMHO, the only way to
destroy a legacy of incompetence was to not tolerate it so I was
overjoyed that losing was not going to continue to be a way of life.
Except the NY media destroyed Garrett. They loved the lovable losers .
The administration decided that a punter who whiffs at a ball and costs
his entire team a well earned victory should not be embarrassed by being
kicked off the team for being the loser he was, or forced to apologize
to his teammates for single handedly costing them a game. The punter was
reinstated, Garrett fired. And losing continued.
His kids transferred to Princeton which did not do to badly and one of
his sons had a brief pro career before becoming a coach down in Dallas.
harlan
John C TX
H, what was most bizarre about that situation was that Jimmy Breslin
went on & on about Garret. We should get Papa the job over there and
pack the team with NY, NJ & CT kids only
:)
Harlan Lachman
<524e106d-b45c-4c66...@t5g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
John C TX <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote:
As long as losing is synonymous with the school, the LSU roster would
lose in bizzare ways in Columbia Blue.
You are what you are committed to. Columbia sports, for the most part,
is committed to mediocrity or worse.
harlan
papa.carl44
Who had success at Princeton????? His son did as I recall. Judd was a
running back and Jason was a QB...all three boys, including John went to
Columbia for the one year their father was there and then transferred back
to Princeton...Jim was never a coach at Princeton....Jason and Judd are with
The Cowboys now. Up until a few years ago the father, Jim, was a scout for
the Cowboys. He was sort of crazy...but he understood the game and could
also present it to coaches quite well...and that is not so common. He
actually made sense....I've been to far too many "clinics" where something
that should have taken fifteen minutes was the subject of a two hour lecture
with the obligatory overhead...and the common trait of repeating everything
they say twice.
papa.carl44
"Harlan Lachman" <har...@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-345342....@news60.forteinc.com...
I completely agree with you. Both Judd and Jason are with Dallas, Judd
played some pro ball too. Jim spent the end of his career as a scout with
Dallas. That entire fiasco with Columbia spread through a lot of high
school programs too....boards of education and controlling parents used it
as a tool to make losing a pet project, like giving every single kid in the
race a trophy. Hard work at something became a bad concept, as did
competence at a skill. As a result, self esteem flew out the window. I
coached more than a few kids who knew they would almost never play, they
wanted to be part of something that won, worked hard and they became role
players and had a mission in practice. When it was possible they got to
play because of that. One of those kids went on to go to The Naval Academy.
Another went to Princeton on a full scholarship and they all stayed in touch
with me. I felt like they were just as much a part of the team as the
all-state starters. That is why they call it a team sport. I also coached
at a school briefly where after winning four games in one season and that
being the first time in over a decade the school ever won the whole staff
caught Hell for being too hard on the kids. We all resigned at once, went
to other schools and all became part of state championship teams. The idea
is to win the freakin game. BTW Harlan, I went to graduate school at
Columbia.
papa.carl44
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:524e106d-b45c-4c66...@t5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Throw in some PA kids...from "across the river"....some coal crackers...some
inner city kids....a few suburban kids who want to be tough...and you can
seriously kick ass. The key is you get them to become a team and support
each other's differences. protect each other. I vividly remember taking a
team that was about 70% white and 30% black to play an almost all black
school....I was elated when one of our starters, captain of the team and
TE...made a very loud statement, "Damn, Coach...they act like they ain't
never seen white people before." When our black players rallied instantly
around our white players...it was over. The reciprocal of that happened
several times...when we beat the crap out of a very wealthy upscale town, no
black player ever had to walk off the field without being with white players
so as to not allow the parents in this case to hurl their venom...and when
it happend it was the kids who spoke up for their teammates...we won a lot
like that. I do have to say, we were always treated well in a black
community, I can not say the same for going to the lilly white
suburbs...that was always brutal.
papa.carl44
One area where I irritated a lot of liberals was right there...they seemed
to be caught up in that "playing the game" crap...never could buy into
playing to win...and for that they always told me I was not really one of
them....also could never believe my academic standing, I coached football
and wanted to win...how could I be intelligent and liberal? Weird world.
John C TX
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:8ac448f2-fd8c-4795...@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Gotcha, I thought he ended up at Princeton w/ his sons.
As for clinics, amen, best coach in my world was a teacher first prior
to hitting it big. He also can quickly & succinctly communicate ideas
to both players & other coaches. Most coaches think pedagogy is what
you put on your feet.
papa.carl44
A lot of coaching clinics are like Amway meetings :-)
Harlan Lachman
"papa.carl44" <papad...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
me too. a double dipper.
h
papa.carl44
I did it after finishing my first degree in a grad school....got a new job
and they decided to send me there for a second MA. I liked it a lot, I used
to take the train to school a couple of nights a week. Those were some good
days...long ago.
John C TX
LOL
papa.carl44
>> A lot of coaching clinics are like Amway meetings :-)
>
> LOL
What we're gonna do here, what we're gonna do here is take and do
this.....now, it's absolutely critical, absolutely critical everyone is on
board, on board....if ya ain't with us...you're against us, right? So we're
gonna take and do this...we're gonna put this guy right here....right
here....(visual aides now using overhead).....