Santonio Holmes is a Jet per Randy Lange
Tutor
Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
http://www.newyorkjets.com/blog/posts/1584-report-jets-trade-for-steelers-wr-holmes
By Randy Lange
Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
change font email article 04/11 — The Jets executed a stunning trade
late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
Tutor
http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=50271&page=2
Tutor
> Jets send their 5th round pick (could be a 2011 5th rounder) to
> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>
>
> By Randy Lange
> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>
> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>
> change font email article 04/11 — The Jets executed a stunning trade
> late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
> Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>
> The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
> reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
> who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
> Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
Sources: Steelers trade HolmesEmail Print Comments 302Share781 retweet
348By John Clayton
ESPN.com
Archive
The Pittsburgh Steelers traded troubled wide receiver Santonio Holmes
to the New York Jets for a fifth-round pick in this year's draft,
sources confirmed Sunday night.
ESPN 1050 in New York first reported the story Sunday night. Holmes
was contacted late Sunday and told that he was traded to the Jets,
sources said.
Holmes
Holmes had recently been accused of throwing a glass at a woman in a
lounge. No charges have been filed against him, and Holmes' lawyer,
Adam Swickle, told The Associated Press a male witness has taken
responsibility for tossing the glass.
Holmes was entering his fifth season with the Steelers and has 235
catches for 3,835 yards and 20 touchdowns.
Holmes was cited for marijuana possession, a misdemeanor, in
Pennsylvania in 2008. The Steelers made Holmes inactive for the game
following the incident and he subsequently apologized.
He was arrested on a domestic violence charge in 2006 in Ohio, but
that charge was later dropped.
As a player, though, Holmes has the talent to be a No. 1 receiver. He
was MVP in Super Bowl XLIII.
John Clayton is a senior writer for ESPN.com. Information from
ESPN.com's Tim Graham was used in this report.
Tutor
> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>
>
> By Randy Lange
> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>
> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>
> change font email article 04/11 — The Jets executed a stunning trade
> late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
> Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>
> The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
> reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
> who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
> Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
Essentially, Tanny a late 5th round pick and Kerry Rhodes for Santonio
Holmes and a 4th. Not bad
Michael
> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>
>
> By Randy Lange
> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>
> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>
> change font email article 04/11 — The Jets executed a stunning trade
> late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
> Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>
> The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
> reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
> who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
> Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
what the fuck are the jets trying to do ??? become the oakland of the
east ??? i was excited after last years season, but now I'm not so
happy. they fucked up by getting rid of jones and feeley... now they
are courting that asshole jason taylor and have signed holmes who
comes with big issues. i dont want to win that badly... really...
Tutor
>
> - Show quoted text -
1248 yards & 15.8 per catch
sold! Great move. Now Rex and crew have to babysit him so he
behaves.
MZ
Why so cheap??
Tutor
> Tutor wrote:
> > Jets send their 5th round pick (could be a 2011 5th rounder) to
> > Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
> > suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
> > faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>
>
> > By Randy Lange
> > Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
> > 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>
> > File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
> > Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>
> > change font email article 04/11 — The Jets executed a stunning trade
> > late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
> > Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>
> > The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
> > reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
> > who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
> > Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
looming 4 game suspension for substance abuse violation. This after
he was popped for marijuana several years ago and the Steelers benched
him for a game. Plus his legal issues in Florida which he has
allegedly been cleared of. Seems to me like he is taking the fall for
roethlisberger being a repeat rapist.
Tutor
Edwards
Holmes
Cotchery
Keller
Tomlinson
Running game:
Greene
Tomlinson
(hopefully) Leon Washington
Cromartie and Revis at CB.
Now beef up the DL and find a real edge rusher (Jayson Taylor for one
year I guess) and use this draft for youth and depth.
One of Edwards or Holmes will be jettisoned after 2010. Both their
contracts are up.
Johnctx
> Tutor wrote:
>> Jets send their 5th round pick (could be a 2011 5th rounder) to
>> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
>> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
>> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>>
>> http://www.newyorkjets.com/blog/posts/1584-report-jets-trade-for-steelers-wr-holmes
>>
>>
>> By Randy Lange
>> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
>> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>>
>> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
>> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>>
>> late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
>> Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>>
>> The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
>> reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
>> who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
>> Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
>
> Why so cheap??
He is free agent after this year.
I like this as he & Edwards both have to behave to get a big payday
whether from the Jets or elsewhere.
Hammer
> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>
>
> By Randy Lange
> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>
> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>
> change font email article 04/11 — The Jets executed a stunning trade
> late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
> Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>
> The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
> reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
> who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
> Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
I am seeing rumors on the net that Leon was included in the trade...I
hope not.
MZ
> MZ wrote:
>> Tutor wrote:
>>> Jets send their 5th round pick (could be a 2011 5th rounder) to
>>> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
>>> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
>>> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>>>
>>> http://www.newyorkjets.com/blog/posts/1584-report-jets-trade-for-steelers-wr-holmes
>>>
>>>
>>> By Randy Lange
>>> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
>>> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>>>
>>> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
>>> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>>>
>>> late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
>>> Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>>>
>>> The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
>>> reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
>>> who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
>>> Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
>>
>> Why so cheap??
>
> He is free agent after this year.
>
> I like this as he & Edwards both have to behave to get a big payday
> whether from the Jets or elsewhere.
Another thing that makes this a good deal is that if they decide to let
either of them walk after '10, they get their 5th round pick back in the
form of a compensatory pick. I don't know what Pittsburgh was thinking.
Locker room issues?
Tutor
> Johnctx wrote:
> > MZ wrote:
> >> Tutor wrote:
> >>> Jets send their 5th round pick (could be a 2011 5th rounder) to
> >>> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
> >>> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
> >>> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>
>
> >>> By Randy Lange
> >>> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
> >>> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>
> >>> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
> >>> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>
> >>> change font email article 04/11 — The Jets executed a stunning trade
> >>> late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
> >>> Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>
> >>> The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
> >>> reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
> >>> who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
> >>> Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
>
> >> Why so cheap??
>
> > He is free agent after this year.
>
> > I like this as he & Edwards both have to behave to get a big payday
> > whether from the Jets or elsewhere.
>
> Another thing that makes this a good deal is that if they decide to let
> either of them walk after '10, they get their 5th round pick back in the
> form of a compensatory pick. I don't know what Pittsburgh was thinking.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Despite the angst of the Steelers fans about this, I can understand it
a little from their point of view. They think that Holmes is a bad
egg and had no intention of re-signing him after 2010 when his
contract expires. Rather than get nothing for him 12 games from now,
they elect to take the best offer now. One would think that the pick
should have been a better than a 5th rounder (I believe the 24th pick
in round 5). After all, Holmes has the highest YPC in the NFL and has
a great deal of talent, but perhaps this was the best offer Steelers
could find. Hard to believe that some WR starved teams (i.e. Buffalo,
Miami, Chicago), refused to offer higher thand a bottom tier 5th
rounder. I am still scratching my head. 2010 is a season long
audition for Braylon Edwards and a 12 game audition for Holmes. One
of those two will get the big contract going into 2011.
Tutor
> On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:43:51 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Jets send their 5th round pick (could be a 2011 5th rounder) to
> >Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
> >suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
> >faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>
>
> >By Randy Lange
> >Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
> >13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>
> >File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
> >Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>
> >change font email article 04/11 — The Jets executed a stunning trade
> >late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
> >Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>
> >The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
> >reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
> >who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
> >Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
>
> deals. There's a lot of risk in these transactions he's made, whether character issues
> (Holmes, Edwards, etc)... or physical issues (Poole, LT, etc).
> But the bottom line, with his hands tied this offseason, he's significantly improved the
> team. Now, we can focus on filling the remaining holes, & building youthful depth in the
> draft.
> And... we have a GM that other GMs seem to like working with, & trust.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Good post BuRf. And I agree 100%.
Johnny???? You listening my good friend? Can you agree now that we
have a GM whose mission is to get us to a championship? Right now
Tanny is looking mighty good. The only bad move in the last 3-4 years
is Gholston (who now qualifies as the biggest bust in Jets draft
history - way eclipsing Blair Thomas, Johnny Lam Jones, Faurot and
others.)
Tutor
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rumors have been denied by others and Yahoo and others have removed
the Mike Florio claim about Leon. Leon has not signed his tender yet,
so technically can not be traded unless this was done with a nod and a
wink and we plan to ship Leon to Pittsburgh later on, once Leon is
capable of passing a physical and after Leon signs his tender.
SOmehow I doubt that Leonis part of this. At least I hope not.
Tutor
Six quick points about a deal almost as stunning as the McNabb trade:
1. It's a 12-game trial for New York. It's a great deal for the Jets,
obviously, but it comes with a giant asterisk. Profootballtalk.com
reports Holmes is due to start the season on a four-game NFL
suspension for violation of the league's substance-abuse policy. He's
also been accused of assaulting a woman in Florida for allegedly
throwing a glass of juice in her face and cutting her. Since this is
the last year of Holmes' rookie contract, the Steelers are trading
three-quarters of Holmes' 2010 season for a fifth-round pick, which
makes a little more sense.
2. The Steelers are sending a message to Ben Roethlisberger, and to
any other future miscreants on the team. We've all heard how chagrined
the Steelers are over this offseason. ESPN reported Saturday there
will be no criminal charges brought against Roethlisberger over his
sexual-assault allegation by a 20-year-old coed in March -- I heard
the same thing from a reliable source Sunday night -- but there could
still be a civil suit filed by the family. And he still must meet with
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.
It's unlikely the commissioner would use use his far-reaching "the-
shield-has-been-tarnished'' powers to suspend Roethlisberger for a
brief period at the start of the season for his second sex-related
accusation in eight months, especially without criminal charges. What
may make more sense is a ban of a game or two by the upstanding
Steelers, who could use conduct-detrimental-to-the-team as a reason to
sit Roethlisberger. In a city like Pittsburgh, the populace would
applaud a slap upside the head to Big Ben.
In the meantime, the Steelers, I believe, are saying to
Roethlisberger: You have two strikes on you, and you're out if you get
another strike. This is a decision of conscience for Pittsburgh, not a
football decision.
3. This happened very suddenly, too sudden for the Steelers to troll
the NFL to see if they could make a better deal, which they almost
certainly could have done. When I say sudden, I mean Sunday. I hear
the first inkling the Jets got of this deal came in a phone call
Sunday, and GM Mike Tannenbaum jumped on it.
Now, it's possible the Jets have too many at-risk players. A four-game
suspension for substance-abuse means Holmes is one positive test away
from a year out of football. Fellow Jet wideout Braylon Edwards could
be facing a one-game ban for pleading no contest to misdemeanor
aggravated disorderly conduct. The Jets previously dealt for talented
but troubled Antonio Cromartie (seven children in five states), who
the Chargers were determined to unload this offseason.
4. Rex Ryan absolutely loves Holmes. It's no secret that the Jets
coach thought Holmes was the most dangerous receiver he faced. Before
taking the Jets job, Ryan was the Ravens' defensive coordinator. In
2007, second-year receiver Holmes caught eight balls for 208 yards and
three touchdowns against the Ravens in two games. In 2008, Pittsburgh
swept the Ravens in three low-scoring meetings, the last being the AFC
Championship Game. In those three games, Pittsburgh totaled three
offensive touchdowns -- all scoring receptions by Holmes.
Ryan's throwing a party this morning, and when Holmes walks into the
Jets' complex in Florham Park, N.J., Ryan will hug him like a college
roommate he hasn't seen for 30 years.
5. In retrospect, maybe we saw this coming. The Steelers signed Arnaz
Battle, a poor man's Hines Ward, last month, and also brought back
former all-purpose receiver Antwaan Randle El; they hosted immensely
talented Dez Bryant, the top wide receiver in the draft, on a two-day
visit a week ago. Mike Wallace emerged as a major threat as a rookie
with a 756-yard, six-touchdown season. They could open the season with
a respectable receiver group by doing nothing in the draft.
6. Jets-Steelers, in Pittsburgh, is more must-see TV for the NFL this
fall. The schedule-maker is kind. We can only hope the game is in the
last 13 weeks of the season, so Holmes will be there to face the team
he helped get that sixth ring.
Last thing: The Jets are amazing. They've become a little like the old
Raiders (we're afraid of taking no one on our team), a little like the
Yankees (we'll sign anyone to win), and a little like the Dan Snyder
Redskins (we love headlines!) in the last year. With any luck, they'll
sign all-decade player Jason Taylor to be a designated pass-rusher by
Wednesday. And with all the additions, they've retained their first-
and second-round picks, 29th and 61st overall. If they don't implode,
they're going to a damn good team.
MZ
But consider what I said in my last post. If they let him walk after
'10, they'll still (probably) get a 5th round pick. So it's either keep
him for '10 and collect a '11 5th rounder, or give him to another AFC
team for '10 and collect a '10 5th rounder. In light of that, what they
got in return was minimal. I have to think they just didn't want him
around. Understandable, since the Steelers are taking a major PR hit
with all the crap going on.
MZ
However...
There's no free lunch in the NFL. These moves will come home to roost
in the form of salary cap issues. When you lose your draft picks, what
you're losing are players with low salaries + potential. Draft picks
are very important for staying under the salary cap.
It's definitely a win-now strategy. It could pay off. But it will have
long term ramifications.
John Vamp
As a Pats fan, I can tell you that I'm not one little bit happy about
this latest development. I think the Jets - already one of the most
improved teams in the league - are a lot better this morning than they
were before. Damn.
John
Michael
> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>
>
> By Randy Lange
> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>
> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>
> change font email article 04/11 — The Jets executed a stunning trade
> late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
> Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>
> The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
> reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
> who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
> Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
and he's going to be absent for 25 % of the season on suspension. how
nice... he'll at least be free to pursue his off the field
activities. how much you care to be he'll continue to self
destruct ??? mangini was not a good game time coach, but at least he
has the right idea about building a roster on character.
Glenn Greenstein
Glenn Greenstein
Can't be worse than the long term ramifications we have been paying
for Namath's deal with the Devil.
Glenn Greenstein
This is most likely Florio's penchant fro hating the Jets and trying
to make them look bad.
Glenn Greenstein
Character Shmarater. Pit won a SB with this low character player.
Johnctx
> Johnctx wrote:
>> MZ wrote:
>>> Tutor wrote:
>>>> Jets send their 5th round pick (could be a 2011 5th rounder) to
>>>> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
>>>> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
>>>> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.newyorkjets.com/blog/posts/1584-report-jets-trade-for-steelers-wr-holmes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> By Randy Lange
>>>> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
>>>> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>>>>
>>>> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
>>>> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>>>>
>>>> late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
>>>> Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>>>>
>>>> The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
>>>> reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
>>>> who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
>>>> Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
>>>
>>> Why so cheap??
>>
>> He is free agent after this year.
>>
>> I like this as he & Edwards both have to behave to get a big payday
>> whether from the Jets or elsewhere.
>
> Another thing that makes this a good deal is that if they decide to let
> either of them walk after '10, they get their 5th round pick back in the
> form of a compensatory pick. I don't know what Pittsburgh was thinking.
> Locker room issues?
Maybe they couldn't toss Ben R but tossing a WR that is gone after this
year was a PR move or maybe they really think he can't stop smoking dope
ala Rickey Willliams.
Johnctx
or we promised not to match his deal with Pittsburgh if tehy can sign
him. God I hope not.
Johnctx
Round 1, Pick 29 (29) -- --
Round 2, Pick 29 (61) -- --
Round 4, Pick 26 (124) (From Cardinals) -- --
Round 5, Pick 24 (155) (From Eagles) -- --
Round 6, Pick 29 (198) -- --
Round 7, Pick 29 (236) -- --
I think they don't have the 5th.
Ritchie
>
> - Show quoted text -
Glenn all you ever see is winning a championship. Yes it would be nice
to win one but not at the expense of having a pos on the team that may
cause headaches. I really don't like what the Jets are becoming. I
really did not find this season as enjoyable as other fans did. I
don't like Rex's big mouth and ownership has sort of made the Jets
into somewhat of a laughing stock with statements that have been made.
I for one wish that Rex would keep his mouth shut and just coach.
Everytime he opens his mouth he says something stupid and childish. I
don't want criminals on the Jets and it seems that they are willing to
take anyone to win and that's not right at all.
Glenn Greenstein
Then root for Browns. Sounds like a team you would like.
Maybe you'd like Mangini back as well.
I want a team that wins, I have had enough of good guys like Curtis
Martin and Ken O'Brien and watching them lose.
Johnny Morongo
> On Apr 12, 9:09 am, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:43:51 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Jets send their 5th round pick (could be a 2011 5th rounder) to
>>> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
>>> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
>>> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>>> http://www.newyorkjets.com/blog/posts/1584-report-jets-trade-for-stee...
>>> By Randy Lange
>>> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
>>> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>>> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
>>> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
>>> late today, acquiring wide receiver Santonio Holmes from the
>>> Pittsburgh Steelers, according to a report from ESPN New York 1050.
>>> The Jets have not confirmed the trade for Holmes but the radio station
>>> reported that according to league sources, the club obtained the WR
>>> who caught the game-winning touchdown pass from Ben Roethlisberger in
>>> Super Bowl XLIII for a fifth-round selection in next week's draft.
>> I mean... ya gotta give Tanny major props, for having the chops to find & make these
>> deals. There's a lot of risk in these transactions he's made, whether character issues
>> (Holmes, Edwards, etc)... or physical issues (Poole, LT, etc).
>> But the bottom line, with his hands tied this offseason, he's significantly improved the
>> team. Now, we can focus on filling the remaining holes, & building youthful depth in the
>> draft.
>> And... we have a GM that other GMs seem to like working with, & trust.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Good post BuRf. And I agree 100%.
>
> Johnny???? You listening my good friend? Can you agree now that we
> have a GM whose mission is to get us to a championship? Right now
> Tanny is looking mighty good. The only bad move in the last 3-4 years
> is Gholston (who now qualifies as the biggest bust in Jets draft
> history - way eclipsing Blair Thomas, Johnny Lam Jones, Faurot and
> others.)
Yes, David, I'm listening. And I've gotta agree that he has indeed done
what would seem pretty near impossible to believe him capable of, with
this one caveat: every one of his pick-ups this off season is someone
else's damaged goods. Every one of 'em. On paper, each of them makes
sense, but can anyone say that they're all gonna work out just the way
things sound? I'm just not so sure that this is the way to build a
consistently elite team. At least we haven't given away the entire
draft, so there's hope that we can get a couple of really strong
additions there. And maybe even some solid help, and real competition
for the O-line?
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not just from a moral stand point... As it stands, he's absent for 25
% of the season. Off the field issues translate into on the field
issues. Look at what happened with the Giants after Burress. It does
not matter how skilled he is or how little he costs. If he's jammed
up with league conduct issues or legal issues, it could destroy the
composure of the offense. Just like the Burress absense did to the
Giants. Consider that the Steelers know him MUCH better than the Jets
do. And the Steelers just kissed him off for a song. This is going
to be trouble.
MZ
Oh, come on Ritchie. These guys are football players, not statesmen.
Half of them are morons, many of them are wife-beaters (convicted or
not), drug users, cheaters (HGH anyone?), gamblers, etc. The "high
character" thing is an unnecessary constraint. Rex should add the guys
to his team that he can coach. If they're uncoachable, or are bad
teammates, get rid of them. But what they do and say off the football
field shouldn't have a bearing.
Johnny Morongo
I tend to agree with you, Mark. See my reply to Tut.
Glenn Greenstein
I don't agree Michael and here is why. Burress had nothing to do with
the Giants failings, it was more so the Defense practically gave up at
the end of last season and the team did nothing to replace him,
instead they hitched their wagon to Eli and that failed miserably. It
was more so poor planning on the Giants part than anything else.
Peyton makes good receivers great, Eli needs that great receiver to be
good.
Also this substance abuse thing is like a craps game. Everyone in the
league is shooting up with the stuff and if you think otherwise you
are being Naive.
MZ
Every single thing you just said was said about Moss after he was traded
to the Patriots.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
Glenn. If one guy breaks the law it is a crime, but if a bunch of
them do its OK ??? SH is a huge risk not to mention... You really
wanna yell "YAY !!!" for a guy that does violence agaisnt women or
drugs or what ever ??? I dont get it. I could see taking Jason Taylor
cause he's just an ass hole, but SH seems like trouble.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
moss was into violence agaisnt women, assault and drugs ???
MZ
You booed at the tv every time Justin Miller returned a kick?
MZ
No, but you know very well all the allegations against him. Malcontent,
locker room cancer, part time player, drug user, "ran over" a cop,
downside of his career in Oakland, etc.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
what we have here is a failure to communicate...
Johnctx
I guess I worry about missing the next stud in the 4th round who will be
cheap but how many times do teams blow there 1st (Gholston), 2nd (Chad
Jackson & Bethel Johnson? If you can get a starter and a star for a
4th then you do it.
MZ
Yeah, there's no question they got good value. And given the current
limitations, this is one way to acquire proven talent without having to
dip into the UFA pool.
What they need next is to lose some of these guys to free agency, and
then clean up in the compensatory picks. The Jets are building a really
good starting roster, but they need these mid-round level guys to add
depth. Tanny has cited their good luck in getting rookie free agents
after the draft as a way of building depth, although I think he
overstates the case a little bit.
Let's say they lose Ellis, Leon, Braylon, and Santonio next offseason.
This would be like a worst case scenario, but the positive is that
they're probably looking at a 3rd round and three 5th round picks coming
back to them in the '12 draft. I don't think they have the luxury of
waiting that long to build depth, so what do they do in the meantime?
Glenn Greenstein
Honestly, I'm not as patient as I once was with my sports hobbies and
I lose interest fast now. I am practically giving up on the Knicks if
they don't make a huge splash in FA this offseason. What these people
do off the field I honestly couldn't care less about, I just want to
be entertained by them on Sundays. If they are really bad guys they
are not going to be in the league as the NFL does not employ fellons
but for Christ sake, Holmes is being suspended for smoking pot. As
Nick Nolte said in North Dallas 40, if you locked up every player that
smoked pot, you wouldn't be able to even field a punt team.
Ritchie
> families, neighborhoods, etc... they are still kids, who are thrown a lot of money,
> women, fame, etc. They haven't had a chance to mature.
> So far, anyone that's come here has behaved well.
> Everyone deserves a 2nd chance. If they act up here, and it's ignored, then I'll be
> concerned.
> Remember Coles had issues in college. Aside from his whining, he made good with his
> opportunity. Kris Jenkins had issues... you can make a list of a good percentage of the
> NFL, and see players who had issues, that matured. Most do... or their careers are
> short-lived.
> So, for now, I'm cool. We're signing athletes, not missionaries.
>
> As for Rex, I gotta disagree.
> He is who he is. The Players love him, and he has the confidence that he can turn wayward
> players around. To me, his mouth takes a lot of pressure off the players. It points the
> focus at him, so the players can just remain focused on their business. It's one of the
> things that make players try to cover his back.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I was in law enforcement, come from a LE family and now in personal
security, I don't believe in 2ND chances for criminals. I don't have
much sympathy for kids from messed up homes because most of them use
it as an excuse instead of using it to make themselves better and rise
above the situation. Dealing with these type of people on a day to day
basis during my LE years made me very jaded, cynical and intolerant
towards them.
I see what u mean about Rex but, I still don't like him a lot, reminds
me way too much of his blow hard dad. His dad had a big mouth and
often put his foot in it as a coach. I remember when he took the
Cardinals HC job and the first thing he said at the press conference
was "you've got a winner here" or something to that effect and we all
know how that went.
Tutor
Jets general manager Mike Tannebaum admits 'significant risk' in
trading for Santonio Holmes
By Manish Mehta/The Star-Ledger
April 12, 2010, 5:17PM
The Jets know the risks in acquiring Santonio Holmes
In the less than a year, general manager Mike Tannenbaum has dealt for
the disgruntled, traded for the troubled and left little doubt that
there’s no maximum weight on the amount of baggage he’s willing to
load on to the Jets’ bandwagon.
The Jets’ latest troubled star: Santonio Holmes.
Tannenbaum admitted to reporters on a conference call this afternoon
that there’s “significant risk” in acquiring the mercurial wide
receiver from the Steelers for a 2010 fifth-round pick.
But it was a risk the headline-grabbing Jets were willing to take.
After “robust discussion” among Tannenbaum, Rex Ryan and owner Woody
Johnson last night, the Jets decided to move forward with the trade.
“We knew exactly what we were getting into,” Tannenbaum said. “At the
end of the day, we felt good enough to pull the trigger.”
The Jets have made no secret that they’re willing to take a chance on
a player with a questionable background. Braylon Edwards and Antonio
Cromartie were dealt, in part, because of off-the-field concerns by
their former teams.
The NFL announced Monday afternoon that Holmes will be suspended for
the first four games of the 2010 regular season for violating the
league's substance abuse policy.
He will be eligible to participate in Organized Team Activities, mini-
camps, training camp and preseason games, but will be required to
leave the Jets' practice facility after the fourth preseason game.
Holmes is one strike away from a one-year suspension.
Tannenbaum said Ryan’s “unique ability to connect with a lot of
different types of people” played a significant role in executing the
deal.
“Rex loves working with different type of people,” Tannenbaum said.
“He believes in giving people second chances. And he’s energized by
those challenges. He’s dynamic in his ability to relate to all
different kinds of people. So. We’re moving forward together. Santonio
is one of ours and now it’s up to us to make it work.”
“I feel good about the Cromartie trade,” Tannenbaum said. “I feel good
about this trade even though Santonio hasn’t even been here for a
day.”
Holmes, who will make $755,000 in the final year of his rookie deal,
is the latest big-time talent acquired by the Jets at a relatively
bargain-basement price. Tannenbaum proved again that he’s not afraid
to assume some risk by acquiring skilled – but troubled – players.
Tannenbaum admitted that he’d like to keep Holmes for the long term if
the situation is right.
“Anytime we get a player here that’s happy here and we’re happy with
them, we try to keep them all,” Tannenbaum said. “Our hope and
expectation is that he’ll be here for a long time to come.”
Holmes said he was walking his dog Sunday night when he received word
from the Steelers around 9 p.m. that he had been traded. “I was very
shocked,” Holmes said in a conference call with reporters.
Holmes also preached “being accountable” for getting suspended four
games for violating the league’s substance abuse policy.
In the end, Tannenbaum suggested that the team’s support staff will be
able to help keep Holmes out of further trouble.
“There’s a great foundation here in terms of high football character
(players) and passion for winning and playing hard. That’s what we
believe in,” Tannenbaum said. “With the off-the-field issues, we have
a really good support staff to help people get better and learn from
their bumps in the road. With that said, we understand there’s risk
here. We’re not turning a blind eye to it. We’re excited to have
Santonio and move forward with him with the understanding that there
is risk. But again, we think the risk is reasonable.”
Johnny Morongo
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:15:17 -0700, Johnny Morongo <j.mir...@harmonicconcordance.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Tutor wrote:
>>> On Apr 12, 9:09 am, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:43:51 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Jets send their 5th round pick (could be a 2011 5th rounder) to
>>>>> Steelers for the troubled Holmes. The SUper Bowl MVP will be
>>>>> suspended 4 games for violation of the NFL substance abuse policy and
>>>>> faces more serious criminal charges for an alleged assault in Florida.
>>>>> http://www.newyorkjets.com/blog/posts/1584-report-jets-trade-for-stee...
>>>>> By Randy Lange
>>>>> Lange is editor-in-chief of newyorkjets.com. He covered the Jets for
>>>>> 13 years for The Record of Hackensack, N.J.
>>>>> File Under: Trade, Woody Johnson, Matt Higgins, PIttsburgh Steelers,
>>>>> Santonio Holmes, SUNY Cortland, Gov. David Paterson
> But, under the constraints of this uncapped craziness, he's done better than any of us
> could've imagined.
> And he kept our #1 & #2 picks.
> Some of the players we've picked up, are short-term solutions... while others were
> worthwhile gambles.
> The bottom line, though, he's been creative, and our team should be improved, barring
> injuries.
And you're right too...bottom line for this year should be a well
deserved, legitimate contention for the Vince. But the REAL bottom line
should be consistent excellence over the long haul. Call this year a
step in the right direction. And the bulk of the team is still young
(ish). To stay young, ya gotta draft very well. We have to keep the
picks we have, maybe pick one up for LW, or even trade down.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
not just pot... violence... my only beef with pot is that it is
agaisnt the law. no tax gets paid and money goes to the bad guys...
the violence part is what bothers me.
MuahMan
blow up hard.
Harlan Lachman
<0d859461-4aa3-4fba...@e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
Michael <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote:
michael. we spend a 5th round and less than mil. If he stinks, no
problem. If he performs, we either sign him or get a higher pick than we
paid for him as a compensatory pick. This is a win, win, win move.
Low trade value. Low salary, High compensatory pick or chance to sign
him. In fact, the more we cannot afford to sign him, the better our
compensatory pick in 2012. And with the rule of 8, after next year's
post season run, we won't be able to sign FA, thereby ensuring we get
the comp pick.
Love the deal.
h
Michael
> In article
> <0d859461-4aa3-4fba-9a4c-f38f6b873...@e7g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
i was glad that on the michael k show 1050 that at least he was
bringing up the same points i am. what do the recent signings say
about the jets ??? win at all costs even if you stain the rep of the
franchize by stocking the roster with bad guys. i'm not the only guy
who's upset about this. this is a disgrace of sorts... "gang goon"
Glenn Greenstein
You seem pissed about the month off which is for smoking pot, not
violence.
Glenn Greenstein
Michael K always takes these positions. He is all about pissing on a
fans parade. It doesn't surprise me in the least he said that.
Ritchie
>
> - Show quoted text -
Agree with Michael K and, Gang Goons is an excellent name.
Ritchie
>
> - Show quoted text -
Last time I checked smoking pot is just as illegal as committing a
violent act. Whether you steal a stick of gum or steal $10 its still a
crime. I for one am glad that I have never ever used any type of drugs
and never buckled under peer pressure to do so. I have zero tolerance
for druggies and alcoholics. I never saw what the big deal was about
smoking pot and drinking so heavily it made you do stupid things.
Maybe that's why I have a zero tolerance policy towards that stuff.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
im just thinking that the month off is just a sign of things to come.
who the hell knows... may be he'll learn somthing positive on the
jets. this is just too much at one time... cromartie with his dead
beat dad stuff, jason taylor with his comments and now santonio with
his baggage. the only guy they really needed was cromartie. and they
also kissed off two of the good guys... feeley and jones...
MZ
I've never waterski'd in my entire life. I don't see why anyone would
want to waterski. I'd just as soon make it illegal. Throw the book at
waterskiers.
;)
Glenn Greenstein
Jones I agree but we can get a better kicker than Feeley. Don't forget
Jone's production fell off a cliff the last part of the season.
As far as the month off as a sign, Pace was also suspended for a
month, is that a sign as well. Maybe we should get rid of Pace.
Jason Taylor talked trash to Jet fans and the team, Bart Scott talks
trash to everyone except Jet fans and the team, maybe he needs to go
as well. Cromartie is guilty of getting his girl friends pregnant and
then dumping them, Tom Brady did practically the same thing (just not
as many times) so I guess the Pats should get rid of him.
So far this violence thing has not gotten Holmes thrown in jail, has
not gotten him suspended or fined so I really don't see the concern.
As far as Pits move, it was exactly as advertised here, it was to send
a message to Ben to shape up or your next.
Johnctx
I shows you how tough it is to win consistently in the NFL. Having a
star like Brady or Manning helps and so does the coach who regularly
gives you a plan & system that can beat most teams.
If Tannenbaum thinks Robert Turner & DeVito are the guys that are going
to do something for them in a big way he is crazy. We aren't talking
about Bart Scott here. I do however think we have forgotten how much
the cap has gone up in a short period of time so cap pressure with this
system has really been reduced if not eliminated. Since 2001 it went
from 67 MM to $127MM last year. How would anyones life change if their
disposable income grew like that?
Johnctx
Michael, & I am not saying he is a choirboy but how do you know he did
all those things? He could have but he also could have been the victim
of a pissed off girlfriend, an opportunist in a bar.
He gets one chance here because the pick is conditional & Goodell will
throw the book at him.
Michael
The Steelers could not wait to get rid of him. Sending a message to
BR was just an extra benifit of getting rid of him. It was Santonio
that was their superbowl mvp and not BR.
> He gets one chance here because the pick is conditional & Goodell
will
> throw the book at him.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah... He's not a serial axe murderer... I'll cut him some slack...
Michael
How often was Pace connected with violent acts off the field ??? Does
he do violence against women ???
> Jason Taylor talked trash to Jet fans and the team, Bart Scott talks
> trash to everyone except Jet fans and the team, maybe he needs to go
> as well.
Nop... The more shit he talks about teams other than the Jets the
better I like him. He may be an asshole, but he's my asshole. That's
what counts as far as trash talk goes. Taylor insulted Jets fans.
Fuck him.
>Cromartie is guilty of getting his girl friends pregnant and
> then dumping them, Tom Brady did practically the same thing (just not
> as many times) so I guess the Pats should get rid of him.
Yes.. Not NEARLY as many times. That is all the difference. Brady is
not out of his mind or on a mission to impregnate the world.
> So far this violence thing has not gotten Holmes thrown in jail, has
> not gotten him suspended or fined so I really don't see the concern.
> As far as Pits move, it was exactly as advertised here, it was to send
> a message to Ben to shape up or your next.- Hide quoted text -
I dont agree... What we know about SH is only a small part. Where
there is smoke there is fire, the the Steelers know SH is a five alarm
head case
Glenn Greenstein
Yeah and Spreewell was a thug who assaulted his coach but on the
Knicks he was a model citizen. People see the mistakes they make and
grow from them. We need to hope this is the case here. Also the first
assault charge against Holmes was dropped so technically it didn't
happen. Yeah Michael, he bought her silence, like that never happened
before either. The fact is he has never been charged with it and the
case in the bar is pending.
Also your stance on Taylor and Scott is pure homerisim so if Taylor
becomes a Jet, you should fall right in line because then Taylor will
be our asshole as well.
Glenn Greenstein
you both have points here. The Steelers are a very well run
organization and they are a smart football franchise. If Holmes was
not thought to be a problem in there eyes they would not have traded
him but that does not mean they couldn't be wrong about him as well.
To John's point, it wouldn't be the first time a girl in a bar saw an
NFL player and tried to bait him into something where she could sue
him. People get scammed like this all the time.
Michael
Cant agree with this. Taylor specifically insulted Jets fans. We'll
see how SH conducts himself. And Cromartie, and Edwards...
MZ
I remember rooting for Corey Dillon when he was on the Pats. After some
drug trouble early in his career, and a domestic abuse charge that
"mysteriously" disappeared, he was a really good player for them.
I forget... Did Justin Miller end up going to jail for punching a woman
in the face, or did he use his status as a football player to get out of
what the rest of us would have faced?
Michael, lots of these guys are assholes. You may not even know which
ones are. But they're paid to entertain us. You can cheer for them
while they're carrying a football for the laundry without endorsing
their off-field behavior or their world view on politics.
I hear Pennington's a trotskyite.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
Of course this is entertainment before all else. Same deal with
Hollywood actors. Lots of 'em are assholes but they can still make
classic movies. And yes... There are players with alter boy images
that probably do all sorts of stuff. OJ Simpson comes to mind. How
long was he thought of as a good guy ??? And look at Art "Straight
Arrow" Schlichter. I'm saying if a guy on the team is a criminal and
an asshole, I have a less enjoyable time watching the games. You are
correct though, that none of the guys we are talking about have gone
too far as not to deserve a chance to grow up and become
responsible. Cromartie, Santonio, Bralon Edwards and Jason Taylor
are not Packman or Vick. I hope it works out.
MZ
Yeah, I know what you're saying. It's just very unsatisfying to go
through rosters and find the guys who have done bad things. And then
you're always wondering if your team has an OJ. I choose to completely
ignore these things. Maybe I'm being superficial, I don't know.
By the same token, I watched Chinatown again recently and didn't think
twice about the criminal who directed it. :)
Michael
<Massive snip>
> Yeah, I know what you're saying. It's just very unsatisfying to go
> through rosters and find the guys who have done bad things. And then
> you're always wondering if your team has an OJ. I choose to completely
> ignore these things. Maybe I'm being superficial, I don't know.
>
> By the same token, I watched Chinatown again recently and didn't think
> twice about the criminal who directed it. :)
They just had Alan Faneca on 1050 ESPN. They asked him about his
former teamate and new teamate Santonio. Faneca was asked if he
thought Santonio could get it together with his off the field stuff
and if the word on him had been unfairly blown up. Faneca responded
by stuttering and fumbling for a few seconds. After that, he refused
to comment on any of the off the field stuff. Faneca would not vouch
for him or give him a vote of confidence at all. Just said how good
he was on the field and so on. Not a good sign.
Glenn Greenstein
There are some crimes called misdemeanors and some called felonies.
Smoking pot is a misdemeanor, a violent act is a felony. Are you
really serious? They give these guys harder drugs to get them on the
field.
Harlan Lachman
Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
> He gets one chance here because the pick is conditional & Goodell will
> throw the book at him.
What does this mean John? I thought we gave up a 5th round pick in this
year's draft. What is conditional about that?
h
Johnctx
> in the face, or did he use his status as a football player to get out of
> what the rest of us would have faced?
In fairness to him that story from day one sounded like BS. He gets in a
punch up with a guy & woman gets pushed punch or tangled up. She calls
the cops and they are locking up Justin Miller. She then gets in front
of the media for a few minutes the next day letting everyone knows she
works for Obama. The charges disappeared, maybe be cause of the
presidential race, or maybe she was full of baloney.
Either way proof again that noting happens after midnight but hardly
proof he is a bad guy.
>
> Michael, lots of these guys are assholes. You may not even know which
> ones are. But they're paid to entertain us. You can cheer for them
> while they're carrying a football for the laundry without endorsing
> their off-field behavior or their world view on politics.
>
> I hear Pennington's a trotskyite.
I knew it.
Johnctx
H, I thought I read somewhere that the Jets can take the Steelers 5th
round pick next year if they cut him. I can't find it now.
MZ
>> I forget... Did Justin Miller end up going to jail for punching a
>> woman in the face, or did he use his status as a football player to
>> get out of what the rest of us would have faced?
>
> In fairness to him that story from day one sounded like BS. He gets in a
> punch up with a guy & woman gets pushed punch or tangled up. She calls
> the cops and they are locking up Justin Miller. She then gets in front
> of the media for a few minutes the next day letting everyone knows she
> works for Obama. The charges disappeared, maybe be cause of the
> presidential race, or maybe she was full of baloney.
>
> Either way proof again that noting happens after midnight but hardly
> proof he is a bad guy.
There were witnesses.
MZ
>>> Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>>>> He gets one chance here because the pick is conditional & Goodell will
>>>> throw the book at him.
>>> What does this mean John? I thought we gave up a 5th round pick in this
>>> year's draft. What is conditional about that?
>>> h
>> H, I thought I read somewhere that the Jets can take the Steelers 5th
>> round pick next year if they cut him. I can't find it now.
>
> Has nothing to do withthe Steelers' 5th round pick.
Can't get a compensatory pick for cutting a player.
Johnctx
The witnesses were the guy involved in the fight, his friend, and their
dates. It was the girl claiming to be Obama's personal secretary or
office manager who filed the charges.
Johnctx
>>> In article <7pCdndonp9kH-lnWnZ2dnUVZ_uOdn...@giganews.com>,
>>> Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
>>>> He gets one chance here because the pick is conditional & Goodell will
>>>> throw the book at him.
>>> What does this mean John? I thought we gave up a 5th round pick in this
>>> year's draft. What is conditional about that?
>>> h
>> H, I thought I read somewhere that the Jets can take the Steelers 5th
>> round pick next year if they cut him. I can't find it now.
>
> Has nothing to do withthe Steelers' 5th round pick.
I am not sure where I saw that. I will look for it.
Maybe what I saw was if someone signs him away we wold get a fifth but I
thought I saw the Steeler's 5th.
MZ
There were witnesses that saw that she was hurt pretty bad afterwards.
Maybe she threw herself down a flight of stairs?
Johnctx
She got hit. He claims he was trying to hit the guy she was with and
the guy ducked. When the first report came my visceral reaction once she
started talking to the media & mentioning Obama was:
a. She stared a fight that her guy friend got sucked into and Miller's
story was true.
b. She swung at Miller & he clocked her.
The case disappeared and got dropped so she either backed away because
of Obama or she was lying which is hardly conclusive. I have a heavy
bias against big mouth women. Women generally have more common sense so
when they are involved in a fight outside a bar in my experience they
are usually the problem.
I think the two of us went round & round on this when it happened.
MZ
Yeah, and I said he was still a criminal because he was violent (my
definition, not Michael's). Sometimes people's "bad luck" comes from
the situations that they put themselves in and the confrontations that
they usually escalate.
Johnctx
I would not label hitting a staffer of Obama a criminal act.
:)
If he threw the first punch he was a criminal. If he didn't it is self
-defense. It is easy as I approach 50 to say again, nothing good
happens after midnight, but nothing really does.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
actually... in many states you don't have to wait to be struck. if a
person is menacing you without contact and you warn them, you can
legally hit them first if they refuse to back off. menacing would
include coming into a persons space abruptly, violent gestures and
verbal threats.
Johnny Morongo
> On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 11:40:08 -0400, MZ <ma...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> their off-field behavior or their world view on politics.
>>
>> I hear Pennington's a trotskyite.
>
> a Trostskyite rodeo clown ;)
> (Sorry to mention clown, for those with the phobia).
Clown = Burford? Me thinketh that the lady doth protest too much.
You, sir, are a well know clown and jester, on a par with Will Somers.
MZ
You guys are so willing to give Miller the benefit of the doubt, but
Santonio is as good as guilty for virtually the same scenario. I don't
get it.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'd give most people the benefit of the doubt after one incident.
Santonio appears to be trouble waiting to happen. Again and again and
again... Dont you find it the least bit compelling that such a skilled
player get's walking papers for a fifth round pick in return. And,
no... Not just to send the a message to the lady killer.
MZ
I guess I'm not familiar enough with his history of violence.
> Dont you find it the least bit compelling that such a skilled
> player get's walking papers for a fifth round pick in return. And,
> no... Not just to send the a message to the lady killer.
Yes, I find it very questionable. I found it questionable when Moss was
traded for only a 4th. I find it questionable that Denver got so much
for Marshall. A lot of times, my predictions about trade value are way
off. And so you have to ask what the contributing factors are. I think
PR is a big one in this case. Not so much sending a message to Ben, but
rather, sending a message to fans. They think that this will atone for
the Ben stuff too.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
I hope at the end of next season you are all breaking my balls because
Santonio played great and acted like a man.
Johnctx
Huh? Not me, I wasn't worried about what he did. Some pot, possibly
hit his girlfriend, but maybe she over reacted. I am skeptical about
the DA's case whenever it is a celebrity.
Johnctx
> Santonio played great and acted like a man.
I can guarantee the first part.
Grinch
>>> Character Shmarater. Pit won a SB with this low character player.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Glenn all you ever see is winning a championship. Yes it would be nice
>> to win one but not at the expense of having a pos on the team that may
>> cause headaches. I really don't like what the Jets are becoming. I
>> really did not find this season as enjoyable as other fans did. I
>> don't like Rex's big mouth and ownership has sort of made the Jets
>> into somewhat of a laughing stock with statements that have been made.
>> I for one wish that Rex would keep his mouth shut and just coach.
>> Everytime he opens his mouth he says something stupid and childish. I
>> don't want criminals on the Jets and it seems that they are willing to
>> take anyone to win and that's not right at all.
>
>Oh, come on Ritchie. These guys are football players, not statesmen.
>Half of them are morons, many of them are wife-beaters (convicted or
>not), drug users, cheaters (HGH anyone?), gamblers, etc. The "high
>character" thing is an unnecessary constraint.
Certainly. Nobody gets to the NFL by being a Cub Scout.
But the teams that are getting rid of these players know this too --
and are still getting rid of them, for all their talent.
IOW, the issue in the NFL really isn't a "high character" constraint,
it is a *low* character constraint -- how low do you go?
Teams getting rid of talented young players know them better than
anyone else does, presumably. It should make one wonder what they know
-- what lower bounds were crossed.
"Buyer beware" in these kinds of cases.
When Parcells unloaded Keyshawn on Tampa, who got the best of that
deal?
> Rex should add the guys
>//to his team that he can coach. If they're uncoachable, or are bad
>teammates, get rid of them. But what they do and say off the football
>field shouldn't have a bearing.
Well, it depends.
Warren Sapp smoked dope in college, which was a crime. But that was
the extent of it. I couldn't care.
Lawrence Phillips choked his girlfriend unconcscious in college -- and
it was just the tip of the iceberg of a life of violent assaults and
felony weapon crimes, etc. Plus not getting along well with coaches
and being an asset to the team.
The thing about "off the field behavor" is that for every incident
that is reported and becomes known there are on average 10 others that
aren't -- just like with every other offender. Behavior usually is a
pattern.
So, it depends.
If the individual's pattern of behavior is that he is a tough,
aggressive guy, spoiled as "big man on team/campus" his whole life --
as per the typical NFL player -- so he also has an excessive sense of
entitlement, and so has been prone to get in a bar fight or other
scuffle, in college to drink underage, smoke dope, maybe steal
something (Coles) etc, have excessive girl friends, and think he is
above the rules in certain ways ... but otherwise his behavior is
within normal human non-felonious bounds, and he is capable of
learning from experience and listening to the authority that pays his
salary, then the reported off-field behavior doesn't mean so much. The
NFL ain't for Cub Scouts.
But if the reported incident is the tip of the iceberg of selfish
contempt for others -- which will apply to coaches, teammates, the
reputation and morale of the team, etc. -- the guy is *really* a *bad*
guy, that's another story. Then the reported off field behavior is
pretty dang important.
We the fans have little way of telling one kind of case from the other
from a single incident that makes the news. Neither do newspaper
reporters and sports radio talking heards, particularly -- though it's
their job to have strong opinions on such things nonetheless.
But teams that invest millions of dollars in these players, and spend
millions on vetting them, had sure better know.
And, of course, some players are on the margin -- and that's what
makes for trades.