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Costello of the NY Post hits the nail on the head
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graybeard
Oct 5, 2011, 10:39:31 AM10/5/11
to
nypost.com
October 5, 2011
<quote>
Jets GM to blame for undermanned offensive line
Brian Costello
ON THE JETS
The Jets should have handed out "blame balls" instead of game balls
after Sunday's 34-17 loss to the Ravens, because there would have been
plenty to go around. From Mark Sanchez to Vlad Ducasse, targets were
easy to find.
But this loss did not fall on the shoulders of Ducasse, who looked
overmatched in his brief appearance, or Sanchez, who turned the ball
over four times. In fact, the blame did not lie on anyone on the M&T
Bank Stadium field.
Instead, you needed to look in the second row of the press box where
general manager Mike Tannenbaum sat, growing angrier and angrier with
each breakdown below.
It was Tannenbaum who left the Jets' offensive line more shallow than
the conversation at the Kardashian dinner table. He was the reason the
Jets had rookie Colin Baxter at center in place of the injured Nick
Mangold. He was the reason that when Baxter faltered, the Jets had only
Ducasse to turn to.
Tannenbaum was the reason his franchise quarterback, the one he took
with a No. 5 pick two years ago, took more hits than a Floyd Mayweather
opponent.
"I feel that way after every loss that I did not do my job well enough
because we didn't win the game," Tannenbaum said yesterday. "Ultimately,
in our profession I'm held to a standard and our charge here is to win
professional football games. After any game, I take losses really,
really hard. No one is a tougher critic on me than myself."
To that I say: Let me take a shot.
Tannenbaum's first mistake was kicking Damien Woody to the curb in
February. The common refrain is Woody retired. But the 33-year-old had
no plans to retire until the Jets released him to save $3.35 million.
The Jets thought Wayne Hunter could take over at right tackle because he
played well at the end of last season when Woody was injured. Hunter
showed just what kind of mess this line would be on their first play
this season when the Cowboys' DeMarcus Ware blew by him to hit Sanchez.
The next critical moment for Tannenbaum came when Rob Turner broke his
leg in the team's first preseason game in Houston (partly because
Ducasse got beat on the play, incidentally). The Jets could have signed
veteran centers Shaun O'Hara or Andre Gurode, who have a combined eight
Pro Bowl selections between them. Instead, Tannenbaum signed . . . no
one.
At the end of training camp, he picked up Baxter off waivers and traded
for Caleb Schlauderaff, both projects instead of proven commodities. The
Jets felt it was better to bring in players who could be here long-term
rather than short-term fixes.
Maybe down the road that will play out as a good choice, but the tattoo
of Haloti Ngata's facemask that Sanchez now has in the middle of his
back is Exhibit A that decision looks poor at the moment.
And that brings us to Ducasse. The truth is he should not be on the
field. That was clear after two series Sunday night. It's too soon to
give up on him. The 2010 second-round pick has not had an off-season
with the coaches, and has been shuffled between guard and tackle.
That being said, the early returns are not good.
"We still believe that he's going to be a good player for us,"
Tannenbaum said.
From 2008-10, the offensive line was one of the Jets' strengths. In the
first two years, the group of Nick Mangold, Woody, D'Brickashaw
Ferguson, Brandon Moore and Alan Faneca played 35 straight games
together. Last year, Matt Slauson stepped in for Faneca and the line
continued to thrive.
"The Jets have been almost spoiled by these past couple of years,"
Woody, now an analyst with ESPN, said.
Woody watched Sunday night like everyone else as his former linemates
looked like the JV.
"It made me feel bad," Woody said. "They haven't played well all year.
You can't sugarcoat that."
No, you can't. And if Tannenbaum wants to figure out why, he should
start by looking in the mirror.
APB out for Gang leaders
Anyone who watches "Breaking Bad" knows how dangerous it can be to play
with chemistry. The Jets may learn that lesson the hard way.
At 2-2 and with three-quarters of the season left, the Jets are at a
critical moment where they need their leaders to show the way. But the
question with this team is: Who are the leaders?
The Jets have lost several key voices in their locker room over the last
two years: Thomas Jones, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Kris Jenkins, Tony
Richardson, Jerricho Cotchery and Shaun Ellis.
All of them were nearly as valuable in the locker room as they were on
the field. The 2011 Jets feel like they are still searching for their
identity and part of that comes with who will lead the way.
Jets coach Rex Ryan named five captains in the preseason -- Mark
Sanchez, Santonio Holmes, Sione Pouha, Eric Smith and Darrelle Revis.
None of them were in the Jets locker room Monday when the media showed
up looking for answers about Sunday's dismal loss to the Ravens. That's
part of the job when you're a captain. Look no further than Derek Jeter,
who stands in front of his locker before and after nearly every game.
Kudos to Jim Leonhard, Brandon Moore, D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Matt
Slauson, who showed up Monday and explained to their fans, through
reporters, what went wrong.
Being accountable counts more than just wearing a "C" on your shoulder.
Taking Joe to the Matt
Matt Slauson vs. Joe Namath?
That's not much of a contest if you're comparing Jets careers, but the
third-year guard took on the biggest legend in team history when he
fired back at Broadway Joe, who is on the radio more than Lady Gaga.
"We don't care one bit what Joe Namath has to say," Slauson said. "He
means nothing to us."
That was a poor choice of words. Slauson should not have added the
second part of that statement, but clearly Namath's rips are wearing on
the Jets. Slauson is honest, talkative and eager to please. That tripped
him up in this instance, and he probably knows it.
If the Jets players really want to shut Namath up, they should play
better. If the Jets win, Namath can't take shots at Rex Ryan, Mike
Tannenbaum or anyone else.
</quote>
--
graybeard
October 5, 2011
<quote>
Jets GM to blame for undermanned offensive line
Brian Costello
ON THE JETS
The Jets should have handed out "blame balls" instead of game balls
after Sunday's 34-17 loss to the Ravens, because there would have been
plenty to go around. From Mark Sanchez to Vlad Ducasse, targets were
easy to find.
But this loss did not fall on the shoulders of Ducasse, who looked
overmatched in his brief appearance, or Sanchez, who turned the ball
over four times. In fact, the blame did not lie on anyone on the M&T
Bank Stadium field.
Instead, you needed to look in the second row of the press box where
general manager Mike Tannenbaum sat, growing angrier and angrier with
each breakdown below.
It was Tannenbaum who left the Jets' offensive line more shallow than
the conversation at the Kardashian dinner table. He was the reason the
Jets had rookie Colin Baxter at center in place of the injured Nick
Mangold. He was the reason that when Baxter faltered, the Jets had only
Ducasse to turn to.
Tannenbaum was the reason his franchise quarterback, the one he took
with a No. 5 pick two years ago, took more hits than a Floyd Mayweather
opponent.
"I feel that way after every loss that I did not do my job well enough
because we didn't win the game," Tannenbaum said yesterday. "Ultimately,
in our profession I'm held to a standard and our charge here is to win
professional football games. After any game, I take losses really,
really hard. No one is a tougher critic on me than myself."
To that I say: Let me take a shot.
Tannenbaum's first mistake was kicking Damien Woody to the curb in
February. The common refrain is Woody retired. But the 33-year-old had
no plans to retire until the Jets released him to save $3.35 million.
The Jets thought Wayne Hunter could take over at right tackle because he
played well at the end of last season when Woody was injured. Hunter
showed just what kind of mess this line would be on their first play
this season when the Cowboys' DeMarcus Ware blew by him to hit Sanchez.
The next critical moment for Tannenbaum came when Rob Turner broke his
leg in the team's first preseason game in Houston (partly because
Ducasse got beat on the play, incidentally). The Jets could have signed
veteran centers Shaun O'Hara or Andre Gurode, who have a combined eight
Pro Bowl selections between them. Instead, Tannenbaum signed . . . no
one.
At the end of training camp, he picked up Baxter off waivers and traded
for Caleb Schlauderaff, both projects instead of proven commodities. The
Jets felt it was better to bring in players who could be here long-term
rather than short-term fixes.
Maybe down the road that will play out as a good choice, but the tattoo
of Haloti Ngata's facemask that Sanchez now has in the middle of his
back is Exhibit A that decision looks poor at the moment.
And that brings us to Ducasse. The truth is he should not be on the
field. That was clear after two series Sunday night. It's too soon to
give up on him. The 2010 second-round pick has not had an off-season
with the coaches, and has been shuffled between guard and tackle.
That being said, the early returns are not good.
"We still believe that he's going to be a good player for us,"
Tannenbaum said.
From 2008-10, the offensive line was one of the Jets' strengths. In the
first two years, the group of Nick Mangold, Woody, D'Brickashaw
Ferguson, Brandon Moore and Alan Faneca played 35 straight games
together. Last year, Matt Slauson stepped in for Faneca and the line
continued to thrive.
"The Jets have been almost spoiled by these past couple of years,"
Woody, now an analyst with ESPN, said.
Woody watched Sunday night like everyone else as his former linemates
looked like the JV.
"It made me feel bad," Woody said. "They haven't played well all year.
You can't sugarcoat that."
No, you can't. And if Tannenbaum wants to figure out why, he should
start by looking in the mirror.
APB out for Gang leaders
Anyone who watches "Breaking Bad" knows how dangerous it can be to play
with chemistry. The Jets may learn that lesson the hard way.
At 2-2 and with three-quarters of the season left, the Jets are at a
critical moment where they need their leaders to show the way. But the
question with this team is: Who are the leaders?
The Jets have lost several key voices in their locker room over the last
two years: Thomas Jones, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Kris Jenkins, Tony
Richardson, Jerricho Cotchery and Shaun Ellis.
All of them were nearly as valuable in the locker room as they were on
the field. The 2011 Jets feel like they are still searching for their
identity and part of that comes with who will lead the way.
Jets coach Rex Ryan named five captains in the preseason -- Mark
Sanchez, Santonio Holmes, Sione Pouha, Eric Smith and Darrelle Revis.
None of them were in the Jets locker room Monday when the media showed
up looking for answers about Sunday's dismal loss to the Ravens. That's
part of the job when you're a captain. Look no further than Derek Jeter,
who stands in front of his locker before and after nearly every game.
Kudos to Jim Leonhard, Brandon Moore, D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Matt
Slauson, who showed up Monday and explained to their fans, through
reporters, what went wrong.
Being accountable counts more than just wearing a "C" on your shoulder.
Taking Joe to the Matt
Matt Slauson vs. Joe Namath?
That's not much of a contest if you're comparing Jets careers, but the
third-year guard took on the biggest legend in team history when he
fired back at Broadway Joe, who is on the radio more than Lady Gaga.
"We don't care one bit what Joe Namath has to say," Slauson said. "He
means nothing to us."
That was a poor choice of words. Slauson should not have added the
second part of that statement, but clearly Namath's rips are wearing on
the Jets. Slauson is honest, talkative and eager to please. That tripped
him up in this instance, and he probably knows it.
If the Jets players really want to shut Namath up, they should play
better. If the Jets win, Namath can't take shots at Rex Ryan, Mike
Tannenbaum or anyone else.
</quote>
--
graybeard
Michael
Oct 5, 2011, 12:37:38 PM10/5/11
to
on the manpower decisions. i cant imagine that tanny works in a
vaccuum...
the offensive line is THE MOST IMPORTANT PART of a pro team. the
offensive line also has a defensive compoent in the fact that a very
good line keep the opposing offense off the field and wears out the
opposing defense. very much like building a house. the the
foundation is no good, the house is no good. i have said in here time
and time again... at least 30 % of my cap would go to pay five probowl
quality offensive lineman. good wr's, good qb's and good ball
carriers can not make a bad offensive line line look good. a top
flight offensive line can make average qb's, average wr's and average
ball carrier look like probowlers.
the jets management tripped on their own peckers this time out.
this clusterfuck of a line may very well get their qb's career ended
as well... I am not saying that to be dramatic... that is a real
possiblility.
Julio Sanchez
Oct 5, 2011, 2:03:51 PM10/5/11
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think I have to agree with this as well. Belichick has consistently
maintained a quality o-line, and he does it by not overpaying at
other positions. Dan Koppen went down a couple of weeks ago
and everything seems to be ok anyway.
Julio
Papa Carl
Oct 5, 2011, 7:32:06 PM10/5/11
to
"Julio Sanchez" <hoolio3...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0eecfbe4-5737-4e9e...@t16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Ditto all you have said....horrible decisions...no planning ahead....total
lack of understanding of how to build a team.
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 5, 2011, 8:47:02 PM10/5/11
to
> the jets management tripped on their own peckers this time out.
>
> this clusterfuck of a line may very well get their qb's career ended
> as well... I am not saying that to be dramatic... that is a real
> possiblility.
Football is #1 first and foremost a game of "knock the other team on its collective ****ing ass". Do it to the other team you win, your worst game plan ever won't stop you. If the other team does it to you, you lose, nothing can help you. See the last game.
Only if your lines are good enough to keep your players on their feet and off their asses does all that clever game planning stuff matter.
The Jets tried to spend millions of dollars on yet another top cornerback this offseason, while letting Woody walk and the OL continue to fall apart.
This perhaps suggests a loss of sight of fundamentals.
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 5, 2011, 8:35:13 PM10/5/11
to
"Hey, hey, we'll be smart -- cut Woody and then he'll have to come crawling back to us and play for us at half his former salary!"
That is *not* how you dedictate yourself to having a top O-line.
One more complication: If it is *true* that "The Jets thought Wayne Hunter could take over at right tackle because he played well at the end of last season", then there is a *talent evaluation* problem there, which is entirely consistent with the rest of the OL's mess.
Callahan, Tanny, I am looking at you. Being unable to evaluate talent you already have in camp and playing for you ... **not** a good thing.
Rex and the FO are showing signs of talking the talk more than they walk the walk.
Papa Carl
Oct 5, 2011, 9:42:37 PM10/5/11
to
<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4325192.308.1317862022801.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqgn17...
And this is a statistic we can 100% agree on...when the O line goes South
the rest goes with it...and same with the D...and the weakest components of
both sides of the ball are the down linemen...and it has been that way
getting worse over Rex's tenure. You are right G....no line...no game.
Papa Carl
Oct 5, 2011, 9:44:12 PM10/5/11
to
<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9307148.303.1317861313496.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqgn17...
Smoke and Mirrors....that's it.
RävNsfän ®
Oct 5, 2011, 10:30:58 PM10/5/11
to
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:f113b6dd-95f8-4e86...@k10g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
--
Nice work ...all the above being extremely valid.
I'm sure you will recall Ravens LT Jonathan Ogden who guarded the blindside
of Vinny Testiverde, Trent Dilfer and former Ravens QB's, Chris Redman and
Todd Boller. However, ...you likely will not recall former Ravens RT Ethan
Brooks who anchored the RT position and for good reason. Ethan Brooks
single-handedly bore responsibility for the injuries that ended the
"starting QB careers" of both Redman and Boller.
I mention this to demonstrate how in real time just one weak link in the
O-line can negatively impact upon an entire team's prospects, not for just a
single season, but over an extended period of time. In this particular
scenario the Ravens lost these two top draft picks back to back and did not
recover despite the continued success of RB Jamal Lewis. In fact it was not
until the arrival of Steve McNair in B'more that the Ravens were again
considered playoff contenders.
--
~Drew
"Talk is cheap ...lets just go play"
Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts
--
news:f113b6dd-95f8-4e86...@k10g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
Nice work ...all the above being extremely valid.
I'm sure you will recall Ravens LT Jonathan Ogden who guarded the blindside
of Vinny Testiverde, Trent Dilfer and former Ravens QB's, Chris Redman and
Todd Boller. However, ...you likely will not recall former Ravens RT Ethan
Brooks who anchored the RT position and for good reason. Ethan Brooks
single-handedly bore responsibility for the injuries that ended the
"starting QB careers" of both Redman and Boller.
I mention this to demonstrate how in real time just one weak link in the
O-line can negatively impact upon an entire team's prospects, not for just a
single season, but over an extended period of time. In this particular
scenario the Ravens lost these two top draft picks back to back and did not
recover despite the continued success of RB Jamal Lewis. In fact it was not
until the arrival of Steve McNair in B'more that the Ravens were again
considered playoff contenders.
--
~Drew
"Talk is cheap ...lets just go play"
Johnny Unitas - Baltimore Colts
--
RävNsfän ®
Oct 5, 2011, 10:44:47 PM10/5/11
to
<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9307148.303.1317861313496.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqgn17...
news:9307148.303.1317861313496.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqgn17...
great defense wins championships. Enough rules tinkering has succeeded in
changing that once glorious aspect of the original game into one with an
emphasis on high scoring offenses for what I believe to be the wrong
reasoning (i.e.: market expansion globally with special emphasis on Europe,
...but also in South America)
Johnny Morongo
Oct 5, 2011, 11:06:22 PM10/5/11
to
Took you long enough, Brian. This empty suit has been in over his head
all along. The Revis and Mangold pick really have saved his ass all
these years. Furgeson? Did anyone notice whose back was to Ed Reed as
he blew by him en route to Sanchez's vulnerable and unsuspecting back
side? Who else has been really exceptional (maybe I give him a pass on
Harris)? Methinks Mr. T is lost at sea.
Papa Carl
Oct 5, 2011, 11:45:29 PM10/5/11
to
"Johnny Morongo" <Mor...@Burf.com> wrote in message
news:j6j5vg$2pb$1...@dont-email.me...
Any chance the press is beginning to jump the Rex wagon because of how Rex
seemed to handle this last loss? Far more questions are being asked. Rex
looks lost too and confused. I also wonder how in the Hell a guy can get a
lap band or whatver surgery he had, lose a little weight and then gain it
all back...he looks like he's growing significantly now. He must be
"snacking" to deal with the depression that's setting in.
Johnny Morongo
Oct 6, 2011, 1:00:35 AM10/6/11
to
On 10/5/2011 2:35 PM, oldn...@mindspring.com wrote:
>> graybeard
>
> That was all right on the money.
>
> "Hey, hey, we'll be smart -- cut Woody and then he'll have to come crawling back to us and play for us at half his former salary!"
>
> That is *not* how you dedictate yourself to having a top O-line.
>
> One more complication: If it is *true* that "The Jets thought Wayne Hunter could take over at right tackle because he played well at the end of last season", then there is a *talent evaluation* problem there, which is entirely consistent with the rest of the OL's mess.
>
> Callahan, Tanny, I am looking at you. Being unable to evaluate talent you already have in camp and playing for you ... **not** a good thing.
>
> Rex and the FO are showing signs of talking the talk more than they walk the walk.
YEP!
>> graybeard
>
> That was all right on the money.
>
> "Hey, hey, we'll be smart -- cut Woody and then he'll have to come crawling back to us and play for us at half his former salary!"
>
> That is *not* how you dedictate yourself to having a top O-line.
>
> One more complication: If it is *true* that "The Jets thought Wayne Hunter could take over at right tackle because he played well at the end of last season", then there is a *talent evaluation* problem there, which is entirely consistent with the rest of the OL's mess.
>
> Callahan, Tanny, I am looking at you. Being unable to evaluate talent you already have in camp and playing for you ... **not** a good thing.
>
> Rex and the FO are showing signs of talking the talk more than they walk the walk.
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 6, 2011, 6:31:54 AM10/6/11
to
Rex's dad had a problem with offenses too as a HC, and it kept him from being anywhere near as successfull as a HC as he'd been as a DC -- and that was back when defense *did* win championships.
Let's hope it's not heriditary.
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 6, 2011, 6:33:30 AM10/6/11
to
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 6, 2011, 6:26:10 AM10/6/11
to
On Wednesday, October 5, 2011 2:03:51 PM UTC-4, Julio Sanchez wrote:
Belichick doesn't overpay at any position. He'd cut his mother's Social Security if it saved him cap money. He doesn't have an economics degree for nothing.
The thing is, you have to have the skill to judge the talent right to know exactly what everybody's worth to do that right.
That's what he's got on the Jets' FO (and most everybody else's): He knows better what to do on spreading the cap money, and he's got the skill to actually do it.
The thing is, you have to have the skill to judge the talent right to know exactly what everybody's worth to do that right.
That's what he's got on the Jets' FO (and most everybody else's): He knows better what to do on spreading the cap money, and he's got the skill to actually do it.
graybeard
Oct 6, 2011, 8:50:41 AM10/6/11
to
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 11:03:51 -0700 (PDT), Julio Sanchez
<hoolio3...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I think I have to agree with this as well. Belichick has consistently
>maintained a quality o-line, and he does it by not overpaying at
>other positions. Dan Koppen went down a couple of weeks ago
>and everything seems to be ok anyway.
>
>Julio
He also manages to do it without overpaying at the OL positions. It's
<hoolio3...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I think I have to agree with this as well. Belichick has consistently
>maintained a quality o-line, and he does it by not overpaying at
>other positions. Dan Koppen went down a couple of weeks ago
>and everything seems to be ok anyway.
>
>Julio
called good scouting and talent evaluation.
--
graybeard
graybeard
Oct 6, 2011, 8:58:05 AM10/6/11
to
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 17:47:02 -0700 (PDT), oldn...@mindspring.com wrote:
>The Jets tried to spend millions of dollars on yet another top cornerback this offseason, while letting Woody walk and the OL continue to fall apart.
>
>This perhaps suggests a loss of sight of fundamentals.
What worries me is not the idea that they deliberately let the OL
>The Jets tried to spend millions of dollars on yet another top cornerback this offseason, while letting Woody walk and the OL continue to fall apart.
>
>This perhaps suggests a loss of sight of fundamentals.
deteriorate in favor of other positions. What worries me is that they
didn't think it was a downgrade at OL. This speaks to an inability to
evaluate personnel and recognize weaknesses.
--
graybeard
graybeard
Oct 6, 2011, 9:11:14 AM10/6/11
to
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 21:42:37 -0400, "Papa Carl" <papa...@verizon.net>
wrote:
>And this is a statistic we can 100% agree on...when the O line goes South
>the rest goes with it...and same with the D...and the weakest components of
>both sides of the ball are the down linemen...and it has been that way
>getting worse over Rex's tenure. You are right G....no line...no game.
Papa, two things I have always firmly believed about football: (1) the
OL is the single most important unit in the success or failure of a
team, and (2) a good pass rush is more valuable than a good secondary.
If you can't open holes for the RB's, you put too much on the shoulders
of the QB, and if you can't protect your QB you are toast.
And a good pass rush can make up for an average secondary by not giving
the QB enough time to throw, while a poor pass rush will hamper a good
secondary, because nobody can cover receivers forever if the QB has
enough time to wait for them to get open.
--
graybeard
wrote:
>And this is a statistic we can 100% agree on...when the O line goes South
>the rest goes with it...and same with the D...and the weakest components of
>both sides of the ball are the down linemen...and it has been that way
>getting worse over Rex's tenure. You are right G....no line...no game.
OL is the single most important unit in the success or failure of a
team, and (2) a good pass rush is more valuable than a good secondary.
If you can't open holes for the RB's, you put too much on the shoulders
of the QB, and if you can't protect your QB you are toast.
And a good pass rush can make up for an average secondary by not giving
the QB enough time to throw, while a poor pass rush will hamper a good
secondary, because nobody can cover receivers forever if the QB has
enough time to wait for them to get open.
--
graybeard
graybeard
Oct 6, 2011, 9:23:56 AM10/6/11
to
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 17:06:22 -1000, Johnny Morongo <Mor...@Burf.com>
wrote:
>Took you long enough, Brian. This empty suit has been in over his head
>all along. The Revis and Mangold pick really have saved his ass all
>these years. Furgeson? Did anyone notice whose back was to Ed Reed as
>he blew by him en route to Sanchez's vulnerable and unsuspecting back
>side? Who else has been really exceptional (maybe I give him a pass on
>Harris)? Methinks Mr. T is lost at sea.
Johnny, I have said before that Tannenbaum's best picks were
no-brainers. If you read the various draft prognosticators, Revis and
Mangold were the consensus best players at their positions, and they
also filled a need. When Mangini was let go I expressed the opinion that
he and Tannenbaum should have shared the same taxi out of town. If Tanny
is such a brilliant and valuable capologist, then make him the CFO of
the Jets and bring in an experienced GM who has shown that he knows how
to build a team, someone who has demonstrated the ability to scout and
evaluate players based on the role they would be expected to fill.
--
graybeard
wrote:
>Took you long enough, Brian. This empty suit has been in over his head
>all along. The Revis and Mangold pick really have saved his ass all
>these years. Furgeson? Did anyone notice whose back was to Ed Reed as
>he blew by him en route to Sanchez's vulnerable and unsuspecting back
>side? Who else has been really exceptional (maybe I give him a pass on
>Harris)? Methinks Mr. T is lost at sea.
no-brainers. If you read the various draft prognosticators, Revis and
Mangold were the consensus best players at their positions, and they
also filled a need. When Mangini was let go I expressed the opinion that
he and Tannenbaum should have shared the same taxi out of town. If Tanny
is such a brilliant and valuable capologist, then make him the CFO of
the Jets and bring in an experienced GM who has shown that he knows how
to build a team, someone who has demonstrated the ability to scout and
evaluate players based on the role they would be expected to fill.
--
graybeard
Michael
Oct 6, 2011, 9:39:20 AM10/6/11
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>
> - Show quoted text -
belichick is sooo smart with how he evaluates talent and spends money,
> - Show quoted text -
they have the worst defense in the league.
the jets have a bad RT, and an injured center. Their best back-up o-
line guy, who could have helped was injured for the season.
the big mistake the jets made was thinking hunter could play as a
regular starter the same way he played last season when he came in for
damian woody. you cant completely blame the jets for hunter, as we all
saw him play well.
the jets could not have also known that:
robert turner would be injured for the season
mangold would get injured at the same time
it is a "perfect storm" for the offensive line.
the only thing the jets management should get full blame for is
ducasse... drafting a guy from that college in round two was asking
for it. i agree with joe namath on ducasse... the jets should have
cut their losses, got right of him and planned to bring in another
line guy.
now back to the brilliant, thrifty belichick....
belichick's defense has sucked across the board for, what is it now...
five straight seasons ??? great talent evaluation... great value...
eric
Oct 6, 2011, 10:41:52 AM10/6/11
to
allowed is only part of the story; the scoreboard doesn't show that
nor does the team that gets the most yards get the win. It's about
getting turnovers, stopping the run game, making the opponents take a
field goal too.
Look at the signings and draft picks the Pats made this year. OL Nate
Solder and Marcus Cannon. Solder is starting and playing well already.
Cannon has tremendous potential and will be worked in to the line as
soon as he finishes his lymphoma treatments. The Pats made Logan
Mankins the highest paid guard in the NFL this year, and Belly jumped
all over Brian Waters for depth when he became available. That's what
is called feeding the 5 headed beast that is the soul of the offense.
Not cutting people like Woody (who the Jets got from NE in the first
place). It's why when the NE starting center went on IR there was
somebody ready to step in. Can you imagine if the Jets OL had as many
and as severe injuries as NE has had this year?
No wonder Brady is clean and pretty for Giselle at that end of the
game. Sanchez though has a broken nose, a limp and a nasty facemask
mark in his back. No wonder he has the 28th worst QB rating in the
NFL.
The Jets should be 1-3. The only reason they are not is the bumbling
idiot QB of the Cowboys. The only team they have looked good against
is the Jags, who showed up with a QB who wouldn't make any major
college team.
Michael
Oct 6, 2011, 11:17:18 AM10/6/11
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>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
straw man statistic in support of the patriots defense... consider the
points scored on jets while the offense was on the field, or points
scored on a drive after a turn-over...
also keep in mind... the jets defense in 2009 and 2010
the patriots defense is horrible and has been for some time now...
but dont wet the bed... i'll humor you...
belicheck is batman, superman and aquaman all rolled together
eric
Oct 6, 2011, 12:23:00 PM10/6/11
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yards allowed.
If you look at NE's defensive points allowed per game it's far from
the worst at 21st in the league, 4.5 worse than Jets. Considering a
lot of that is in garbage time when the Pats have the game won the
real difference in even smaller.
Yards allowed per game is a bullshit stat.
Percy Flage
Oct 6, 2011, 12:35:26 PM10/6/11
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good secondary.
It's a team game.
--
Percy Flage
"Life is too short to have to explain everyday."
Michael
Oct 6, 2011, 12:37:23 PM10/6/11
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>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
dont worry... all is well... the patriots defense is great. belichick
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
did not cheat. belichick is a demigod.
Señor Patriots
Oct 6, 2011, 2:53:29 PM10/6/11
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On Oct 6, 8:39 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> belichick is sooo smart with how he evaluates talent and spends money,
> they have the worst defense in the league.
>
That's a gross over simplification. He has plenty of talent on
>
>
> belichick is sooo smart with how he evaluates talent and spends money,
> they have the worst defense in the league.
>
defense.
I'm not saying that your observation is wrong. Your observation is
right. I think your conclusion is wrong. You are seeing what you
want to see and you're ignoring the fact that even with players like
Mayo and Haynesworth and Wilfork you still have to find lots of
answers to getting them all on the same page.
The performance of your own defense last week is a good example of
that. It's not just a question of hiring studs and letting them run
around doing whatever they want.
Michael
Oct 6, 2011, 3:10:46 PM10/6/11
to
for you then, does not win for you now. a rigid "formulaic" approach
to football is eventually going to be a losing approach. belichic is
habitual. the "patriot way" is over rated as are many habitual
approaches to the game. Belichick’s coaching celebrity along with
his habbits have made him irreproachable and subsequently, a loser.
watch the original star wars movie "a new hope" and then watch what
lucas did later in the series. you'll get the idea.
Papa Carl
Oct 6, 2011, 7:32:56 PM10/6/11
to
"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:cj9r87d01dcabvq97...@4ax.com...
And you are so right Gray....AND....all those completions in the seem
against safeties are expected when you have no rush...that is a route that
takes time to develop and a safety just can not cover that long...not one
who can also stop the run too at least.
RävNsfän ®
Oct 6, 2011, 9:03:14 PM10/6/11
to
<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:135076.4241.1317897114066.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjh13...
Those were some good points. For the sake of the JETS and their fans I hope
not as well. However my actual concern is toward that Ryan ego which is
hereditary and is worn on the fingertips of both brothers with pride. That
ego is what I contend to be foremost in what makes Rex a one dimentional
HC, ...in the mold of Dick LaBeau. A great DC without any doubt.
Shortly after Rex arrived in NY, I weighed in with this NG about his ego and
the other concerns which arose in B'more due to Rex being overboard as a
players coach. I warned that Rex would bring this and similar baggage which
would become more evident with time and that brought such problems to the
forefront that the owner decided to choose Harbaugh over him. In fact it was
never even close as the Ravens just went through with the interview and
evaluation processes to keep the peace in the locker room and the practice
field.
news:135076.4241.1317897114066.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqjh13...
not as well. However my actual concern is toward that Ryan ego which is
hereditary and is worn on the fingertips of both brothers with pride. That
ego is what I contend to be foremost in what makes Rex a one dimentional
HC, ...in the mold of Dick LaBeau. A great DC without any doubt.
Shortly after Rex arrived in NY, I weighed in with this NG about his ego and
the other concerns which arose in B'more due to Rex being overboard as a
players coach. I warned that Rex would bring this and similar baggage which
would become more evident with time and that brought such problems to the
forefront that the owner decided to choose Harbaugh over him. In fact it was
never even close as the Ravens just went through with the interview and
evaluation processes to keep the peace in the locker room and the practice
field.
graybeard
Oct 6, 2011, 9:47:42 PM10/6/11
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QB I would prioritize OL and pass rush in that order.
--
graybeard
Julio Sanchez
Oct 7, 2011, 9:24:18 AM10/7/11
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On Oct 6, 9:47 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 17:35:26 +0100, Percy Flage
>
>
>
>
>
> <percy.flage_REM@OVE_ianwhitephoto.co.uk> wrote:
> >On 06/10/2011 14:11, graybeard wrote:
> >> On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 21:42:37 -0400, "Papa Carl"<papa.c...@verizon.net>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 17:35:26 +0100, Percy Flage
>
>
>
>
>
> <percy.flage_REM@OVE_ianwhitephoto.co.uk> wrote:
> >On 06/10/2011 14:11, graybeard wrote:
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> And this is a statistic we can 100% agree on...when the O line goes South
> >>> the rest goes with it...and same with the D...and the weakest components of
> >>> both sides of the ball are the down linemen...and it has been that way
> >>> getting worse over Rex's tenure. You are right G....no line...no game.
>
> >> Papa, two things I have always firmly believed about football: (1) the
> >> OL is the single most important unit in the success or failure of a
> >> team, and (2) a good pass rush is more valuable than a good secondary.
>
> >> If you can't open holes for the RB's, you put too much on the shoulders
> >> of the QB, and if you can't protect your QB you are toast.
>
> >> And a good pass rush can make up for an average secondary by not giving
> >> the QB enough time to throw, while a poor pass rush will hamper a good
> >> secondary, because nobody can cover receivers forever if the QB has
> >> enough time to wait for them to get open.
>
> >... but if your good pass rush is negated by a good OL, then you need a
> >good secondary.
>
> >It's a team game.
>
> Yes it is, but no team can afford all-pros at every position, and after
> QB I would prioritize OL and pass rush in that order.
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
Strangely enough, even with the o-line problems this year, Sanchez'
qb rating this year is actually slightly *higher* than his rating for
all of last year (75.9 this year so far, 75.3 last year).
Julio
Julio Sanchez
Oct 7, 2011, 9:22:21 AM10/7/11
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>
> - Show quoted text -
It may be habitual but the Pats have had good success with it.
> - Show quoted text -
They may be like the Atlanta Braves and not win another SB,
but they at least have 4 SB appearances, 3 Wins and no losing
seasons under Belichick since his first season. That said, their
recent success may be more due to Brady than anything else.
Belichick is supposed to be a defensive "guru", but their defense
has sucked for quite awhile now.
Julio
eric
Oct 7, 2011, 3:05:05 PM10/7/11
to
in the history of pro football has won over a 10 year span. That
includes 3 superbowl wins and 4 superbowl appearances. No other
organizational approach competing in the NFL in the free agent era has
been more successful. It is absolutely idiotic to make statements that
it has been unsuccessful. It is not only successful, but it has been
the MOST successful organization in the NFL during any similar period
of time.
The Patriots defense has sucked for 2-3 years or so because they lost
Vrabel, McGinnest, Seymour, Samuels, Law, Bruschi, Colvin, Johnson,
Gay and Harrison. That is 10 starters, and haven't managed to rebuild.
If you are going to criticize Belichick for anything it would be that
he hasn't been about to make the transition from this group to a new
group. Whether such a transition is possible in a short time in the
era of salary caps and free agency is an open question.
graybeard
Oct 7, 2011, 5:15:55 PM10/7/11
to
On Fri, 7 Oct 2011 06:24:18 -0700 (PDT), Julio Sanchez
<hoolio3...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Oct 6, 9:47 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 17:35:26 +0100, Percy Flage
>>
<hoolio3...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Oct 6, 9:47 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 17:35:26 +0100, Percy Flage
>>
>> Yes it is, but no team can afford all-pros at every position, and after
>> QB I would prioritize OL and pass rush in that order.
>> --
>> graybeard- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Strangely enough, even with the o-line problems this year, Sanchez'
>qb rating this year is actually slightly *higher* than his rating for
>all of last year (75.9 this year so far, 75.3 last year).
>
>Julio
Because the Raider game was statistically one of the best games of his
>> QB I would prioritize OL and pass rush in that order.
>> --
>> graybeard- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Strangely enough, even with the o-line problems this year, Sanchez'
>qb rating this year is actually slightly *higher* than his rating for
>all of last year (75.9 this year so far, 75.3 last year).
>
>Julio
career and brought up the average. The mystery is whether he can play to
that level consistently if he isn't constantly being knocked on his ass.
--
graybeard
Message has been deleted
JetsLife
Oct 7, 2011, 5:56:39 PM10/7/11
to
so you're going to parrot this character's knee-jerk stupidity?
Just outrageous. We're at the quarter pole and now a great fan like
you as saying some mediot "hits the nail on the head."
Do you take it as proven gospel/ fact that this reporter is right
about the Woody offseason situation? How would he know? Last I checked
Woody retired on the Jets, not the other way around. Point here: if
Woody wanted to play for us or any team, he'd playing now.
Let's not trade in fantasy.
Just unbelievable the screaming women we have in the media. O ye of
little faith. This guy Costello: if I ever meet him I'd like to knock
his lights out.
I'll admit I've been wrong about things current and past ... but if
one thinks that at the quarter pole Tannenbaum is all a sudden a
shitty GM or some such ... o ye of little faith.
Señor Patriots
Oct 8, 2011, 12:01:20 AM10/8/11
to
On Oct 6, 7:58 am, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 17:47:02 -0700 (PDT), oldna...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >The Jets tried to spend millions of dollars on yet another top cornerback this offseason, while letting Woody walk and the OL continue to fall apart.
>
> >This perhaps suggests a loss of sight of fundamentals.
>
> What worries me is not the idea that they deliberately let the OL
> deteriorate in favor of other positions.
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 17:47:02 -0700 (PDT), oldna...@mindspring.com wrote:
> >The Jets tried to spend millions of dollars on yet another top cornerback this offseason, while letting Woody walk and the OL continue to fall apart.
>
> >This perhaps suggests a loss of sight of fundamentals.
>
> What worries me is not the idea that they deliberately let the OL
> deteriorate in favor of other positions.
Maybe that was a case of the decisions a team makes when it's
thinking, "Win now." Everybody wants a "win now" attitude but how
about when it causes short range planning and the long term goes to
hell?
Belichick has been soundly criticized for planning too far into the
future and giving up the "win now" attitude. Nothing could be further
from the truth. It's just not that simple to plan for now and the
future at the same time, and satisfy all the fans.
Part of this is due to bringing in a coach and saying to him, "Win now
or you're looking for a job." There is a very short shelf life in the
NFL for the coaches. I think Rex sticks but he still may be dealing
with that short term pressure.
Señor Patriots
Oct 8, 2011, 12:22:15 AM10/8/11
to
On Oct 6, 8:39 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> now back to the brilliant, thrifty belichick....
>
> belichick's defense has sucked across the board for, what is it now...
> five straight seasons ??? great talent evaluation... great value...
If you've observed the league long enough you begin to realize that no
>
>
> now back to the brilliant, thrifty belichick....
>
> belichick's defense has sucked across the board for, what is it now...
> five straight seasons ??? great talent evaluation... great value...
talent evaluator ever gets it right all the time. They probably don't
even get it right most of the time. Even if you have the talent (and
right now the Pats' front seven is loaded with talent) you cannot
expect that they'll automatically form chemistry and play as a unit.
Then you get extreme talent like Adalius Thomas where the talent turns
out to be a sour apple who won't do what he's asked to do, and then
disturbs locker room chemistry and creates distractions. To me it
seems to be a supremely complex situation.
Then comes money concerns. Money causes lots of bad things to happen
in selecting or retaining talent. I don't know how it can get any
more complex than that.
Then talented guys can also change after having some success in a
system. Lawyer Milloy was such a case. Bill liked Lawyer. He
couldn't justify keeping him because his play fell off badly. So did
Meriweather's. Those two guys were talents when they first arrived
and just fell apart and never achieved that initial greatness again.
Who knows why they fell apart? Talent fails sometimes.
eric
Oct 8, 2011, 7:50:19 PM10/8/11
to
On Oct 7, 5:30 pm, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > The Patriots defense has sucked for 2-3 years or so because they lost
> > Vrabel, McGinnest, Seymour, Samuels, Law, Bruschi, Colvin, Johnson,
> > Gay and Harrison.
>
> & he traded away or wouldn't sign how many of them?
Trading/signing away is not necessarily the coach's decision. Pioli
was the Vice President of Player Personnel during that period.
> There was more free agency in the 80's & early 90's. First plan B
> (which the Cowboys were built on) & then per-salary cap free agency.
> How many teams did Deion play for?
That is a ridiculous statement. Free agency didn't begin in the NFL
until 1993. There was no NFL free agency in the 1980's and early 90's.
> Bellichik is great coach but so much of that, like Polian & Indy, has
> been the luck of getting great QB's & not burning $ & draft choices
> trying to find one.
Aren't you the guy the was posting on here a couple of weeks ago that
Brady was just a system quarterback? Make up your mind, you can't
argue both ways.
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 8, 2011, 8:35:43 PM10/8/11
to
On Thursday, October 6, 2011 3:10:46 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> Belichick’s coaching celebrity along with
> his habbits have made him irreproachable and subsequently, a loser.
I think it might be a *bit* premature to start denigrating Belichick as "a loser".
Wait until after tomorrow's game at least.
> watch the original star wars movie "a new hope" and then watch what
> lucas did later in the series. you'll get the idea.
When Lucas starts losing money on the Star Wars franchise, you can call him a loser too.
That's how the score is kept in his game: in $$$$$$.
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 8, 2011, 8:47:02 PM10/8/11
to
On Friday, October 7, 2011 9:24:18 AM UTC-4, Julio Sanchez wrote:
> On Oct 6, 9:47 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 17:35:26 +0100, Percy Flage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> On Oct 6, 9:47 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 17:35:26 +0100, Percy Flage
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> wrote:
> > >On 06/10/2011 14:11, graybeard wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 21:42:37 -0400, "Papa Carl"
>
> > >On 06/10/2011 14:11, graybeard wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 21:42:37 -0400, "Papa Carl"
>
Because he played significantly better in his first three games this year than he played last year.
Admittedly, not a huge achievement -- but better is better. He had arguably the two best games of his career in the first three weeks.
It's been interesting watching people who defended Sanchez against all non-believers when he really sucked write him off and throw him overboard as he shows signs of finally improving.
>
> Julio
cd
Oct 9, 2011, 11:53:57 AM10/9/11
to
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You can long for Faneca and Woody, but they were no where near their
> - Show quoted text -
respective primes and both retired and were not invited by any other
team. I thought Hunter looked great at the end of the season, he was
younger, quicker, but he is going through a tough period; only need to
remember pains of a young D'Brick. Tanny has already gotten burnt
once for undervaluing the OL, let's see if this is a repeat.
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