Re: Report: Faneca will be cut Monday...
Glenn Greenstein
> For whatever it's worth... an anonymous source quoted...
>
> Jets to cut Pro Bowl guard Alan Faneca
> By Manish Mehta/The Star-Ledger
> April 23, 2010, 11:47PM
>
> The Jets will cut nine-time Pro Bowl left guard Alan Faneca, a person familiar with the
> situation said late tonight. The person requested anonymity because he is not authorized
> to speak on the Jets’ or Faneca’s behalf.
>
> The Jets will likely make a formal announcement Monday, according to the person.
>
> Faneca, 33, was reported to be on the trading block for weeks, but the Jets couldn’t find
> any takers. He was scheduled to make $7.5 million this season, of which $5.25 million is
> guaranteed.
>
> **********
>
> If this is true, again, this goes into headscratcher territory.
> If we cut him, we're still paying him $5.25 million. We have nobody, really, to step up &
> into his position. Vlad is supposedly raw, and needs time.
> And, in this no-cap year, this is when Woody goes frugal? I understand this saves $2,25
> million, and that Faneca is far from his old self, but it's just a strange decision with
> Sanchez still a question mark.
> Faneca obviously won't renegotiate, he knows a lot of teams will show interest.
> This reminds me of the Kendall situation, except we're a better team now, and it could
> have disastrous results.
> Slauson? Turner? Vlad?
> Hopefully, there's a better plan B...
Unless they plan on picking up someone which is going to be difficult
due to the top 8 rule, I can't figure this out.
Michael will be out celebrating all week after it happens.
cd
>
> - Show quoted text -
It is no surprise to me that the Jet line is best it has been since
Muir jumped to Tampa. I have all the confidence in Callahan and I
don't know how much longer he will remain as such. Have said this, I
don't know how the Jets can afford to part with him after having
already committed those dollars to him. Let's hope Callahan is
onboard with this and this isn't Tanny being shmart. I wouldn't mind,
if the Jets just keeping D and O line prospects the rest of the way.
MZ
Adrien Clarke is looking for a team.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gleen.... Faneca could not block pass rushers. Average DT's were
destroying him and blowing him up. Abrupt pressure up the gut is a
danger to a qb. How often do you see a guard resorting to going low
on d-line guys ??? Near the end of the season, that was Faneca's
specialty. The Jets coaches can see what I can. While Faneca still
has experience and hustles to get down filed on running plays, his
pass blocking is so bad, you can have a rookie step in and do the same
job for much less. Not to mention, A rookie will improve while Faneca
will continue to slide. The expert commentators are going nutz
becayse the did not watch the games. I understand how potentially
dicey it is to go with a rookie or to have to shop the market for
dregs, but it is dicey FOR SURE to keep Faneca and expensive too.
Keeping him would be like paying to foment your own hazard. He's
gonna be a hall of famer. One of the best ever. His career is over.
papa.carl44
"buRford" <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
news:h396t557d4snoee3e...@4ax.com...
> Faneca gone... Leon gone... only O picks... no added depth, just reworking
> our backfield,
> and weakening our OL.
I was beginning to think they had a clue, that the tide had changed, that
the Jets had become a smart team that really did want to build and win...now
I'm back to SOJisms.....not very smart IMHO. I predict their somewhat over
the hill LT gets hurt, and Greene will also be often injured with neither of
them every solid and no plan B to go to...and all of that with an O line
that does not know how to come together entirely. That is the one place
where change will wreak havoc. Who replaces Faneca? And Michael I don't
want to hear your turnstyle theory, the facts don't indicate that. He was a
huge force in moving the ball beyond the LOS on all the running they did and
since Sanchez should be more effective in a play action type offense, set up
pass blocking should not be the number one thing to judge. They will rue
the day the got rid of TJ, he was able to play hurt..none of the backs they
have now can or will do that. OK, I'm old, and way too conditioned to Jets
football, I liked coaching in high school where we could walk over to the
Freshman field and take a look at what we would be getting, or in a scrimage
some night see a JV kid light the star back up with a tackle...those were
the moments I would smile and say, "I just found my pass rusher, or my
'situational' line backer"....but all this not knowing who the Hell is going
to fill a job drives me nuts.
Michael
wrote:
> "buRford" <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
The LT is Brick. He's a spring chicken. Woody at RT is getting on
in years, but shows no signs of diminishing skills nor is he injury
prone.
>and Greene will also be often injured
I fucking hope not. That would prove to be a real problem.
>with neither of
> them every solid and no plan B to go to...and all of that with an O line
> that does not know how to come together entirely. That is the one place
> where change will wreak havoc. Who replaces Faneca? And Michael I don't
> want to hear your turnstyle theory,
You mean "EXPENSIVE TURNSTYLE".
>the facts don't indicate that.
To my eyes they shure as hell did.
>He was a
> huge force in moving the ball beyond the LOS on all the running they did and
> since Sanchez should be more effective in a play action type offense, set up
> pass blocking should not be the number one thing to judge. They will rue
> the day the got rid of TJ, he was able to play hurt..none of the backs they
> have now can or will do that. OK, I'm old, and way too conditioned to Jets
> football, I liked coaching in high school where we could walk over to the
> Freshman field and take a look at what we would be getting, or in a scrimage
> some night see a JV kid light the star back up with a tackle...those were
> the moments I would smile and say, "I just found my pass rusher, or my
> 'situational' line backer"....but all this not knowing who the Hell is going
> to fill a job drives me nuts.- Hide quoted text -
Tutor
>
> - Show quoted text -
calm down. Its a far cry from SOJ. SOJ would not have been thinking
about doing what it can to pay the core players in 2011: Brick,
Mangold, Revis, perhaps Cromartie, etc. Faneca was a turnstile in
pass protection. The worst rated OG in the league in that
department. Leon's return to form after this ugly compound fracture
(which relies on his amazing quick cuts) is an unknown and Tanny said
he wouldnt start the season. Cant pay him in 2011 either. I may not
like losing these players (certainly not Leon - one of my favorite
Jets) but I understand the moves. Can you?
Tutor
>
> - Show quoted text -
by the way... I cant fing the link that rates the OL in the league,
but Faneca was the WORST rated guard for protecting his QB. WORST.
He let up more sacks than any other starting guards in the NFL and
that is a fact. I willpost the link when I can figure out where I saw
it the other day.
MZ
Steinbach, Wells, and Essex were ranked below him in pass protection
according to PFF. But yes, you're still right that he was ranked very
low in that department in comparison to other starters.
I think we'll have to assume that they like Slauson. If they don't, and
they're pinning all their hopes on Ducasse, it's a very risky move.
Michael
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:57:35 -0400 MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>
> >If they don't, and
> >they're pinning all their hopes on Ducasse, it's a very risky move.
>
> PASS BLOCKING!
> --
> graybeard
He was said to be less of a pass blocker than a run blocker. Dont
forget, in college, he was a tackel. You can be an average pass
blocker as a tackle and a great one as a guard. I think his future is
as a guard because of his arm length and shape. He's built like a
guard. I dont see him beating out Slauson though for the LG spot this
season. Woody, I think has three more good seaons left. He's showing
no signs of age.
Michael
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:00:00 -0400, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>
> >"buRford" <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
> running game has been weakened by the Faneca move.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
do you have the recordings of the jets games from last season ???
watch slauson in the tampa game. If you can still tell me the running
game wil lbe worse off after that....
Glenn Greenstein
Faneca is costing the Jets 5 mill this season instead of 7. This is an
uncapped year besides that so not only is the savings minimal, it
doesn't even matter. Now tell me again why cutting him was a good idea
with no replacement.
Glenn Greenstein
Michael, do you realize how uninformed you sound every time you bring
up the word expensive? IT IS AN UNCAPPED YEAR AND ALL WE ARE SAVING IS
2 MILL. THE JETS ARE STILL ON THE HOOK FOR 5 MILL. WHERE THE FUCK IS
THE SAVING?
Glenn Greenstein
> depth doesn't count. I might agree with you, IF we weren't paying Faneca $5mil... but we
> are. Might as well get something for that money... an insurance policy, as injuries
> happen.
Burf, don't confuse the guy with facts.
MZ
Tampa Bay is the team that just spent two picks in the top 35 of the
draft on DTs, right? :)
papa.carl44
"Tutor" <dcat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a6416ee5-2c68-46d1...@x7g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
:-) I'll understand them when the rookie RB works out, and Greene really
produces for an entire season, and LT isn't out half the time or more. Like
I said, it's what happened to some of us when we sat through all those home
games for so many years, we're brain damaged as far as the optimism
hemisphere goes.
papa.carl44
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:00:00 -0400, "papa.carl44"
> the spin is, our
> running game has been weakened by the Faneca move.
Amen...I'm not alone in this thinking. To make Sanchez any kind of
effective, the run has to work....and they now have a totally NEW running
attack.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:8tqdnapvmZP8JE7W...@giganews.com...
Right...I wouldn't judge any run blocking performance against them.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
go talk to mark... he'll tell you all about the faneca and leon moves
being nothing but penny pinching on the part of the jets. you sound
uninformed to me as it appears you have no idea what faneca cost the
jets. do you know what the average lg gets paid ?
Glenn Greenstein
Again Michael, show the saving she Jets get by cutting him
NOW!!!!!!!!! He could have been a back up this season. They could have
used him as insurance for an injury. What is the point other than bad
management.All you speak about is how expensive he is. If I go out and
buy a pair of Feragamo shoes and then I realize I could have bought a
pair of generic looking shoes for a 2/3's less, where is the savings
of dumping the other shoes in the trash (or cutting them in this case)
and getting the others?
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
Glenn... The Jets save two million dollars by kissing off Faneca. As
far as I know, they are stuck with 5 million. It would have been
seven million if they kept him. Unless I am mistaken, that is the
money they save. Two million. As far as being expensive. Please go
back and read some of my rants about the 32 million dollar 30 year old
guard when they first picked him up under Mangini. I thought he was a
way over priced alternative then and now. And I was correct as far as
him being a player living off his reputation and not his current skill
and value. I give him major credit and props for being a guy that
Brick and Mangold felt they had to play up to. The whole line learned
from him. It will continue to pepetuate. Now, back to the money...
Not only do they save two million, they also get rid of a disasterous
pass blocker and a guy that cant move the pile. As far as the locker
room feel good stuff. People are people. Where ever you go you can
find good people and good relationships to be had. Relationships
change and life goes on. New friends and leaders are made. May be
the Bengals will never gian another yard on the ground because Anthony
Munoz moved on ???
Glenn Greenstein
If you want to say they got rid of him over his skills, I can accept
that but for you to crow about the Jets saving 2 mill in an uncapped
year when we have a billionaire as our owner to me seems just about
the most uninformed thing you can say and that is about all you have
said.
Glenn Greenstein
Oh, and my point is as Burf pointed out as well, we are paying him 5
mill to play on another team. Great way to get your monies worth.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
i think i said a few times... he's gone because of his skills and
saving two million is the icing on the cake...
papa.carl44
"Glenn Greenstein" <lex...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd4ccf8d-9a6a-436d...@m38g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
Ummmmm, and they took the number one running attack in the league and
literally got rid of it...MOST of the parts are missing now, all they need
is an injury to any of the returning O linemen and they will have an
entirely new group to work with. Backs learn to work with linemen and
linemen work with other linemen....they have created a whole new group of
guys to deal with and will not have any of the chemistry that made it work
last year....IF I'm wrong...I'll fess up to it, but I don't see them having
the same game this year now, not right off the mark in the early part of the
season for sure.
Harlan Lachman
<25f5f20b-e969-411e...@22g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,
Glenn Greenstein <lex...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Now tell me again why cutting him was a good idea
> with no replacement.
Obviously, the Jets disagree with this assessment. Just like they
admitted that absent Joe M, Leon W would have stayed for the year,
whether they see it in Slauson or Vlad, they see an upgrade.
Let's hope they are right.
h
Harlan Lachman
graybeard <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:57:35 -0400 MZ <ma...@nospam.void> wrote:
>
> >If they don't, and
> >they're pinning all their hopes on Ducasse, it's a very risky move.
>
> Especially since Dusasse's weakest skill is supposed to be, guess what?
> PASS BLOCKING!
As a OT out in space. Some posit he will do fine inside at G.
Folks should be worried. OTOH, Rex and Callahan have done pretty well so
far for us.
At least let's wait for the first four games before screaming the sky is
falling.
Given our schedule, we will likely know by then if we be the cream,
players, or putzes.
h
Harlan Lachman
"papa.carl44" <papad...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
Well posted Papa. I have drunk the Rexade. But, I know that the proof
will be in the results. Either our team will run the ball effectively
down other teams' dreams because someone will be better than Faneca (or
not); Greene, LT, and McKnight will average even more rush yards per
game (or not); and Cromartie and Kyle will allow Rex to Rush 7 or 8 and
drive opponents into the ground (or not).
I hope it works out. I would love to take our division easily this year,
get home field advantage throughout the playoffs (making Peyton and
perhaps the warm weather chargers less of a factor outside of a dome),
and have one more SB.
Although TJ and Leon were true Jets, I would love to see that neither
performs this year and that Tanny timed this one right. Same for Faneca
but he was always a Steeler settling for Woody's big bucks.
h
Glenn Greenstein
Yeah right. More like you said how expensive he is and his lack of
skills we the icing.
Michael
wrote:
> "Glenn Greenstein" <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
jeez.... they still have mangold, moore, brick, woody, green,
richardson. they got rid of leon, who was not playing down the
stretch and they got rid of jones... green was filling in well for
jones. the offense also has edwards, keller, cotch and now santonio
and tomlinson out of the backfield. the jets are fracking loaded with
weapons. such receiving weapons will help loosten things up for the
ball carriers. with the manpower the jets have, only total stupidity
on the part of schott could manage anything less than top yardage
production.
papa.carl44
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:76c1f5b3-4780-4551...@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Greene does not count...he only played sparingly at the end of the
season...and THEN he got hurt and Jones had to come back. The team that
created the top running game is gone...no saying who they have is going to
change that. If they lose ONE, only ONE O lineman they have a new
group......what got them to where they went had nothing to do with
Sanchez..it was mostly the running game, and that is gone. Maybe the new
guys will be OK...but the reality is nobody knows now.
papa.carl44
> injuries, so I
> question his durability.
> LT... who knows?
> McKnight... no experience, and he's kinda skinny. How quickly he can bulk
> up for NFL
> play, is another question.
> Sure, it may work out, but it's as likely it won't, when you bank on
> players with little
> or no experience.
McKnight was listed at 180 lbs. LT was injured frequently. Greene showed
NO durability, I kept thinking every time he got hit hard he came up lame.
And...I think Schott can screw it up.
Johnctx
Harlan, how many players form 1AA have made the jump to start in the NFL
their 1st year? How many at OL?
It is a huge risk.
Johnctx
McKnight is listed at 190 on ESPN. He weighed in at 198 at the combine.
LT better have some gas in the tank.
papa.carl44
> Where there weren't questions, now there are... and some of the questions
> we had, haven't
> been addressed yet. So, while I think we've improved, who knows?
Me thinks what this really means is the CS knew just how lucky they were.
That the success of the team last year was in many ways pure luck and they
are acknowleding that with what they are doing with the Offense now. I have
a lot of confidence in what they will do with Defense...wish I had that
concerning the offense. I always felt that one of the most important things
a coach could do was to use the talent available in the most productive
way...and utilize ALL of it. At the levels I coached at that meant taking
the "not quite a starter" D back and putting him in for the Sam LB in a
definite passing situation. Getting that position off the line, our out of
the box and putting in a guy who could cover gave the kid a chance to play
and really helped what we did. But...you needed the right kid to do that
and it took work to find the right kid. When you have some great backs in
situational settings..it is up to coaches to create those situations by
creating sets and using multiple back sets etc. To me, IMHO, it does
absolutely NOTHING to stick a back in to see if he alone can make something
happen....if his talents are different than the regular. The defense knows
what is up....and guess what, they are ready for it. But, when you can
create sets where it is not obvious what is going to happen...a whole new
scenario is created. I always felt Leon should have been in the slot, in
motion and TJ in at the same time...I guess it would have worked better if
TJ could catch...so now they have some guys who CAN catch...lets see if
Schott does something with what he has.
papa.carl44
"Johnctx" <j...@spamtx.net> wrote in message
news:-qadnU8pfaSBL0jW...@giganews.com...
Off the top of my head, the only guy I can think of is Justin Strelzcyk from
Maine who played with Pittsburgh for several years and had a very untimely
and tragic death. I think that position is absolutely the hardest to make
the transition at....there simply are not the types of guys attacking you at
Mass that will be there in the NFL...I, IMHO, think this is a HUGE reach.
I'm guessing they are going with Slauson or someone they already have or
plan to pick up.
Harlan Lachman
Johnctx <j...@spamtx.net> wrote:
Is that a rhetorical question. I have no idea.
I assume most 2nd round guard picks play fairly soon.
h
Harlan Lachman
buRford <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> We won't have Holmes, and it may take some time for the players to get on the
> same page...
> so, the first 4 games may not be a good barometer.
It is the only one we get.
If we lose division games...
h
papa.carl44
"Harlan Lachman" <har...@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-B1721F....@news60.forteinc.com...
My guess is most second round guard picks get cut after being backups for a
while. How many total guards are in the League?
papa.carl44
> significantly
> underutilized, & misused.
> Like every offseason, I reset my BS clock, and everyone starts afresh...
> even Schott.
> Hopefully, he'll surprise... la-di-da...
I coached a kid in high school one time whose father was a pro scout. Of
course, when he was around he would come by practice and come to games if he
could. He was a very nice guy. I remember him saying that he felt like
high school coaches, good ones, had to be the most versatile and most
capable of making adjustments because they had no way of selecting their
talent and also for the most part adapted to what they had to work with. He
pointed out that our "raw material" had the most to benefit from listening
to us, and that we were in a position to get the most development out of
them. He said some of that came from the fact we didn't assume we knew it
all....and that often high profile coaches committed to a scheme or position
and never really got the most out of their talent because of it. It all
made sense to me...and that was over 20 years ago.
Johnctx
Thanks P
Johnctx
Probably a little of both, as you don't see many 1AA OL in the league
and even less starting as a rookie.
Harlan Lachman
"papa.carl44" <papad...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
Probably at least 90. 64 starters and some depth.
h
papa.carl44
I coached a kid in high school who played with Strelzcyk at Maine, the kid
actually lived with us for a while and we went to a Pittsburgh / Jets game
one time and met with Strelzcyk after the game. It was really upsetting to
the guy I know very well when he died. They had been fairly close...or as
my close friend said, as close as anyone could get to him. He was a guy
capable of playing way beyond the caliber of 1AA football, not many of those
I don't think.
MZ
If we count practice squads, probably closer to 150.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:bM2dnaS-c8VSCErW...@giganews.com...
How do we figure out if a second round pick makes it, gets cut...and if they
don't, how soon do they play...on average? I have no clue.
MZ
I don't know the exact number. But we might be able to guess. There
was that footballoutsiders article a few years back that examined on a
position-by-position basis the percentage of starters in the league
based on their draft position.
[Excellent article by the way]
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2006/draft-position
I wish they also published the NUMBER of players selected in each round.
Then you just divide the graph by the number and we get an estimate of
likelihood. Which would give us the answer to your question.
Basically, what's found is that (not surprisingly) the higher you draft
a player the more likely he is to become a starter. This is true for
all positions, including guard, although probably not quite as much for
guard as for other positions. There are an equal number of starting
guards that were selected in the first through fifth rounds. But since
more guards tend to be selected in later rounds than in early rounds*,
then that means round 2 has a higher likelihood of getting you a starter.
...
* = This link
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=OL&type=position
gives you an idea of what round guards tend to go in. To my eye, there
seems to be a little bit of a bias towards the later rounds for guards
to be taken.
Johnctx
Sad story, I had forgotten all about him.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
Thank you...very good article and very good answer. I must admit, I felt
that somehow since guards seem to last a little longer than other positions
that the number of first round guys would be higher. I was wrong, and it
does look like more guys come from later rounds. Still, I'm also seeing
that not so many OL come from smaller schools. My very distant high school
coaching experience taught me (this was over 20 years ago) that kids who did
not really seem to be "big time" but were huge, really big and still growing
with any kind of athletic skill...meaning they could get out of their own
way, had a much better chance of getting into a program at a 1A school. I
saw some kids who were incredible athletes and superb players at the HS
level go to D 2 schools or even D 3 based on size alone. Also, what I saw
in a lot of the D 3 schools was the very good teams had kids who transferred
in from 1A schools after a year of two, because they wanted to play, didn't
like the school they were at, had academic problems in a big evironment or
any number of reasons. To me, all of this fits with what you pointed out
and makes sense to me. I also felt that OL who played in weaker high school
leagues had a harder time of making it in college ball....I think I saw that
more than a few times. To me, it meant that if you face tough competition
from the get go, you tend to handle it better throughout. Thanks for those
links and your input...makes a lot of sense to me.