Re: Looks like Rex did his annual O thing...

[John C TX]

On Oct 23, 2:59 pm, buRford <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
> Together with my earlier post, about Tom Moore, there's this (below my post).
>
> I noticed immediately, today, that substitution patterns seemed different.
> So, I looked around & found the two articles (Moore & below).
> It seems like every season, Rex steps in on O, & things change.  This season he seems to
> have stepped in earlier.
> We saw more involvement of Greene (some because of LT's illness), Kerley, Plax, McKnight,
> Keller, etc.  Moreso, there were less substitutions, more letting players get their
> rhythm.
> Yeah, there were some boneheaded plays, but the O had a clearly different feel today.
>
> If we can pull this game out, with the bye coming next week, we may see a somewhat more
> functional O, after the bye.
> For once, I feel a bit hopeful about the rest of the season, although there were points
> the D looked pretty bad.
>
> *******************************
>
> The Jets offense has been plagued by slow starts for much of the season.
>
> Gang Green began Monday's game with four straight three-and-outs. They also went
> 0-for-their-first-four the previous Sunday against New England.
>
> Rex Ryan met with members of his coaching staff to address the issue this week.
>
> "I've had some meetings, not that I've got all the answers, but I can listen," Ryan said.
>
> Ryan said he met with linebackers coach Bob Sutton, offensive line coach Bill Callahan and
> special teams coach Mike Westhoff. He also huddled with Mark Sanchez.
>
> Conspicuously absent from that list was offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer.
>
> It certainly could have been a simple oversight by Ryan.
>
> But if he indeed met with those staffers and not Schottenheimer to discuss slow starts,
> that could be viewed as a lack of confidence in Schottenheimer.
>
> (SEE UPDATE BELOW)
>
> Schottenheimer, of course, is a lightning rod for Jets fans. He has been relentlessly
> criticized for his play-calling.
>
> Schottenheimer earlier this week acknowledged the offense has been stagnant early in ball
> games.
>
> "We're still searching," he said.
>
> The veteran play-caller said he's emphasized the need for a fast start in practice this
> week by preaching execution.
>
> "If we can get that solved through focusing on the execution one play at a time that will
> help us really get started and jump off," Schottenheimer.
>
> UPDATE: According to a Jets staffer, Ryan later clarified to the team's public relations
> department that he had also consulted Schottenheimer on the team's slow starts on offense
> this week. He neglected to mention Schottenheimer by name in the press conference.

You truly must be a spin man to pay your bills.

:)

For the record, for the 100th time, I am not sure abaout Schott
although I like some of what he does. Today our pain was driven by:
- bad luck on the the td on the strip off
- a bad defense in the 1st half
- sanchez bad throws
-bad refereeing -- glad we won

you may be correct that ryan has no confidence but you didnt cite the
authors so you may have one of the writers protectiing his book., i.e.
that schottsucks. if ryan doesnt trust him then Ryan is an idiot.
If he doesnt trust schott then you also prove my theory that the
dysfunction in the offense is an OC trying to be a slave tot wo
masters.

watch the game again there was little difference.

btw was there anyone who didnt love Revis dropping his shoulder as
Rivrs tried to tackle him?

[Johnny Morongo]

On 10/23/2011 4:46 PM, John C TX wrote:
> On Oct 23, 2:59 pm, buRford<buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>> Together with my earlier post, about Tom Moore, there's this (below my post).
>>
>> I noticed immediately, today, that substitution patterns seemed different.

>> So, I looked around& found the two articles (Moore& below).
>> It seems like every season, Rex steps in on O,& things change. This season he seems to

Revis is great. He's also nasty. Francessa might call that move
roughing the QB. ;)

[JohnC(TX)]

That was funny is your wife logging on & posting?

[Papa Carl]

"JohnC(TX)" <johnctx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4ea5637b$1...@news.x-privat.org...
> X-No-Archive: Yes

>> Honestly, JC, there's no point responding, as you wouldn't see it.
> You mena I am not going to make you a Republican either?
>
> :)
>
> Thanks for replying but you are wrong if you point out specifics.
>
>> But from the first play from scrimmage, I did.
>
> You should be on Wall St. You could watch the first trade & decide how to
> trade that day.
>
> Sanchez didn't hurt us which was big. The OL especially from Slasusson to
> Moore opened holes. There were no dropped balls that I remember so yes
> the offense & OC looked better.
>
Do you think only the final score dictates if he hurt them or not? That INT
hurt...it could have been a killer. Thank the Chargers for going into the
tank late in the game.

[John C TX]

On Oct 24, 8:52 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "JohnC(TX)" <johnctxjetss...@gmail.com> wrote in message

No, I think that the ability to move the ball is what matters and as
you know have been giving Schott a pass due to his play. Yesterday we
moved the ball.

I think it is critical that Sanchez doesn't screw up and yesterday he
didn't. When he had nothing out there he didn't take chances. From
my limited view on a bar stool he didn't appear to be missing wide
open guys as often & of more importance was making the correct choice,
not always, but it was better. I see enough flashes of talent,
especially moving the ball when needed at critical times, to have
hope. OK is fine in year three just dont hurt us with our reasonably
good defense.

That int was a problem & almost buried us but it was also rare errant
throw leading to a INT. I know he has his errant throws at other time
but he also had several perfect throws.

[graybeard]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:52:23 -0400, "Papa Carl" <papa...@verizon.net>
wrote:

>Do you think only the final score dictates if he hurt them or not? That INT
>hurt...it could have been a killer. Thank the Chargers for going into the
>tank late in the game.

Yeah, too bad we don't have a premier QB like, say, Brees, who would
never throw a dumb pass that got picked off in the end zone with the
game on the line.
--
graybeard

[Papa Carl]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:759ac2d6-10d6-477f...@y35g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

At this point in his career he looks like the guy who is going to make some
very good plays and then go back to less than average...there are quite a
few of them....he is not a rookie anymore and he seems to have some things
he can not get fixed. I hope I'm wrong, he could leave the Jets and be a
star...who knows...but this is not a really good team despite yesterday's
win.

[Papa Carl]

"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8jvaa7l5t96asvun6...@4ax.com...

How frequently does Brees do that...and what else does he do? Look at the
whole picture. Did you see Brees last night? If you look at the entire
picture of Sanchez it is sort of OK because of his performance in the
playoffs....but he is not a top level QB any way you look at it at this
point. I'm not ripping him either...it just isn't there. I do think it was
flat out stupid in this stage of his development to change the receivers
around. He had something going with the last group and hopefully he will
get it now with these guys. I do not think they have made it easy on him in
that regard. Plus...he is taking a beating and over time it will show.

[John C TX]

On Oct 24, 10:26 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:759ac2d6-10d6-477f...@y35g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

Let me throw you a life preserver & you know I have been critical of
him. Most QB's are not Brady & Manning. Even Ryan has stumbled a bit.

Brees has worse stats than Sanchez years 1-3 & that was after starting
3 years at Purdue.

http://www.nfl.com/player/drewbrees/2504775/careerstats

Elway:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

Aikman

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm

[Michael]

On Oct 24, 9:16 am, "JohnC\(TX\)" <johnctxjetss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes

> > Honestly, JC, there's no point responding, as you wouldn't see it.
>
> You mena I am not going to make you a Republican either?
>
> :)
>
> Thanks for replying but you are wrong if you point out specifics.
>
> > But from the first play from scrimmage, I did.
>
> You should be on Wall St.  You could watch the first trade & decide how to
> trade that day.
>
> Sanchez didn't hurt us which was big.  The OL especially from Slasusson to
> Moore opened holes.  There were no dropped balls that I remember so yes the

> offense & OC looked better.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Slauson is really becoming a decent player. His pass blocking is very
good now and he's a great straight ahead mauler on running plays.
Moore was looking a lot better too. I think he just needed more time
to come back from the hip thing.

HUNTER IS STILL A MESS

[Percy Flage]

On 24/10/2011 17:16, John C TX wrote:
> On Oct 24, 10:26 am, "Papa Carl"<papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "John C TX"<johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:759ac2d6-10d6-477f...@y35g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>> On Oct 24, 8:52 am, "Papa Carl"<papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> "JohnC(TX)"<johnctxjetss...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>> news:4ea5637b$1...@news.x-privat.org...
>>
>>>> X-No-Archive: Yes
>>
>>>>>>> Together with my earlier post, about Tom Moore, there's this (below
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> post).
>>
>>>>>>> I noticed immediately, today, that substitution patterns seemed
>>>>>>> different.

>>>>>>> So, I looked around& found the two articles (Moore& below).
>>>>>>> It seems like every season, Rex steps in on O,& things change. This

>>>> You should be on Wall St. You could watch the first trade& decide how

>>>> to
>>>> trade that day.
>>
>>>> Sanchez didn't hurt us which was big. The OL especially from Slasusson
>>>> to
>>>> Moore opened holes. There were no dropped balls that I remember so yes

>>>> the offense& OC looked better.

>>
>>> Do you think only the final score dictates if he hurt them or not? That
>>> INT
>>> hurt...it could have been a killer. Thank the Chargers for going into the
>>> tank late in the game.
>>
>> No, I think that the ability to move the ball is what matters and as
>> you know have been giving Schott a pass due to his play. Yesterday we
>> moved the ball.
>>
>> I think it is critical that Sanchez doesn't screw up and yesterday he
>> didn't. When he had nothing out there he didn't take chances. From
>> my limited view on a bar stool he didn't appear to be missing wide

>> open guys as often& of more importance was making the correct choice,

>> not always, but it was better. I see enough flashes of talent,
>> especially moving the ball when needed at critical times, to have
>> hope. OK is fine in year three just dont hurt us with our reasonably
>> good defense.
>>

>> That int was a problem& almost buried us but it was also rare errant

>> throw leading to a INT. I know he has his errant throws at other time
>> but he also had several perfect throws.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point in his career he looks like the guy who is going to make some
>> very good plays and then go back to less than average...there are quite a
>> few of them....he is not a rookie anymore and he seems to have some things
>> he can not get fixed. I hope I'm wrong, he could leave the Jets and be a
>> star...who knows...but this is not a really good team despite yesterday's
>> win.
>

> Let me throw you a life preserver& you know I have been critical of
> him. Most QB's are not Brady& Manning. Even Ryan has stumbled a bit.
>
> Brees has worse stats than Sanchez years 1-3& that was after starting

> 3 years at Purdue.
>
> http://www.nfl.com/player/drewbrees/2504775/careerstats
>
> Elway:
>
> http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm
>
> Aikman
>
> http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm

Due to Sanchez' 16 game college experience, he should really be compared
to other Sophomore QBs, with the added benefit that he's probably
already had his Sophomore Slump.

I think there's a heck of a lot of upside to come from a good QB who's
still only 24 years old.

--
Percy Flage
"Life is too short to have to explain everyday."

[MZ]

Brees is not the norm. He was considered by many to be a bust until
his final year in SD, and even then a lot of folks were skeptical.
The switch flipped on with him more abruptly than any QB I can think
of.

[John C TX]

I just checked his numbers again. His 2nd year he showed promise.
His 3rd year he did OK but was hurt and his 4th & 5th year he did very
well.

Maybe I was in the minority as I was hopeful about him after year two.
I remembered him at Purdue and laughed at UT & A&M missing a guy in
their backyard. BTW I credit B. Schotteimer for all his success.
:)

> The switch flipped on with him more abruptly than any QB I can think
> of.

How about Steve Young, Rich Gannon, & Phil Simms?

[graybeard]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:34:32 -0400, "Papa Carl" <papa...@verizon.net>

wrote:

>
>"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>news:8jvaa7l5t96asvun6...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:52:23 -0400, "Papa Carl" <papa...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Do you think only the final score dictates if he hurt them or not? That
>>>INT
>>>hurt...it could have been a killer. Thank the Chargers for going into the
>>>tank late in the game.
>>
>> Yeah, too bad we don't have a premier QB like, say, Brees, who would
>> never throw a dumb pass that got picked off in the end zone with the
>> game on the line.
>> --
>> graybeard
>
>How frequently does Brees do that...and what else does he do? Look at the
>whole picture. Did you see Brees last night? If you look at the entire
>picture of Sanchez it is sort of OK because of his performance in the
>playoffs....but he is not a top level QB any way you look at it at this
>point. I'm not ripping him either...it just isn't there. I do think it was
>flat out stupid in this stage of his development to change the receivers
>around. He had something going with the last group and hopefully he will
>get it now with these guys. I do not think they have made it easy on him in
>that regard. Plus...he is taking a beating and over time it will show.

The point is that Brees is in his 11th year in the NFL and is still
capable of making bonehead decisions like that. What exactly do you want
anyway? If you are waiting for Green Bay to trade Rodgers for Sanchez
even up, then I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. If Mangold hadn't
been hit with a phantom holding call on a previous play, you would be
talking about Sanchez throwing for 4 TD's with no Int's, instead of
"only" 3 TD's with 1 Int. But I suppose that then, instead of
complaining about Sanchez throwing the ball behind Holmes, you would be
griping that he led him too much.
--
graybeard

[Papa Carl]

"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:60536441-4912-4978...@m5g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

Do you think Sanchez will turn into one of these guys? Did these guys at
that time in their careers have the level of talent to throw at? I did say
he looks very good sometimes...but goes back to terrible decisions and very
poor throws. I usually try not to do too much comparing....don't think it
works really. If you recall...I was a defender of Sanchez...given all the
time he has had to develop I think he is behind the curve.

[Papa Carl]

"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:e8hba71hnvc9ndo0k...@4ax.com...

I'm only making an observation of what I think was / is terrible decisions
at developing a young QB...and possibly making him worse. Why not get a
solid O line and leave it alone...why not get receivers in and leave them so
the kid can get that consistency....They threw him into the fire....and he
has had the weirdest schemes to work with I've ever seen in
football....don't throw, throw, it's nuts.....HE needs to be allowed to find
his identity...not what the HC / OC thought of the day is. I'd love to see
him develop and it would be a lot better with a real O line and consistent
receivers.

[graybeard]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:44:59 -0400, "Papa Carl" <papa...@verizon.net>

On all that I heartily agree.
--
graybeard

[Papa Carl]

"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:gu9ca7djrt2tqepfo...@4ax.com...

I guess what I'm saying is guys who progress have some consistency around
them. They are not in a position to be relearning it all the time. I think
when that happens they never find themselves and settle in on the skill set
they are working on.

[John C TX]

On Oct 24, 6:40 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:60536441-4912-4978...@m5g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

& JC in my contrarian role is now defending him.

:)

Papa, I don't know. I look at Schaub every week who they are either
ready to hang or beatify down depending on how he played. He can't
move at all. His arm strength is no better than Sanchez -- maybe
weaker on the out routes-- but he can not move. Sanchez is mobile has
played well under pressure (at times) & has won some clutch ball
games. I hate the term gamer but he has been clutch at times.

I hated the pick. I hate all high draft choices but is he any worse
than Freeman, Flacco, etc.? He is 4-2 playoffs so I keep hoping and
remember I do think there is a chance it is Schott as well.

[John C TX]

On Oct 24, 10:07 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:44:59 -0400, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"graybeard" <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:e8hba71hnvc9ndo0k...@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:34:32 -0400, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>>"graybeard" <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> >>>news:8jvaa7l5t96asvun6...@4ax.com...
> >>>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:52:23 -0400, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net>

I am with you both. I hated the Cotch move and now wished that they
spent the money on Edwards & Burres but maybe satisfying those two
idiots would have been impossible. I think that Logan Payne injury
hurt more than we realize. A fast guy, running precise routes, who is
hungry might be the change of pace this offense needs.