OT: The political compas
Michael
Care to take the test and share ???
I am right in the center of the "libertarian left" quarter near Ghandi
Tutor
I am in the same "green" zone. I am just over 3 units to the left and
just below 3 units down toward libertarian.
I have no doubt that all of the latter questions about sex brought me
to that "green" zone. Exclude those and no doubt, I would have been
more "authoritative and right".
Ritchie
In the red, authoritarian (really no surprise)
Economic Left/Right: -2.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.18
Michael
same here... the last group of questions put me to the left... on
social issues, I am about as far to the left as you can get. on the
order vs. control issues I am libertarian. on the fiscal stuff, I
rank as a right winger. still...my score makes me look like one of
those leftists that wants the money to come falling out of the sky on
to those that have learned not to help themselves.
Papa Carl
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:0e5d7bc3-8347-43f6...@e26g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
And no surprise...I'm to the left and below you. I do have an issue with
the scaling on the test though. I found myself being forced to either agree
or disagree with quite a few questions that I'm truly neutral on....I'm old
and I flat out don't give a damn about some stuff.
Michael
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
How would you classify a person fiscally speaking, that does not
believe in socialism AT ALL, but thinks a few things should be
"socialized" ??? IMHO... In order to really give people an equal
chance, everyone must have two things served up on a platter for
them. In life, if you can get a doctor when you need one and a
teacher when you want one, IHMO, you have nothing left to complain
about no matter how flat you fall on your face. I don’t know how you
would do it, but medical care and education up to the highest level
should be "FREE" for every single person. Not the bull shit we have
now. It should be where all you have to do is demonstrate that you
want higher education, and thus, you can go from grade school to IV
league unencumbered. Same deal with medicine. You need it, you get
it, no matter where or who you are or how little you earn. Beyond
those two things being completely accessible, the rest of life is up
to you. If you suck, you suck. If you fail, you fail. Only when
education and medical care is truly guaranteed for all can you really
embrace law of the jungle and true libertarian principles. Any way...
That's what I want. Education and medicine at your disposal and after
that, go see Ayn Rand if you suck.
Papa Carl
If we gave a crap about the future of the Nation we would make sure every
single person had the opportunity to be educated to their fullest potential.
That is just common sense, it's in the best interest of the country. The
same goes for medical care. If the population is healthy the country is
healthy. And in that area we need to consider some other things such as
food and environment. I'm familiar with some areas where serious pollution
was allowed to go on with toxic dumping and officials looking the other way.
That result had devastating results for children and it will last and cost
for a long time. We need a healthy populace. If we privatize all
healthcare sources and an epidemic breaks out we are screwed...totally
screwed. The intent and plan of health insurance companies as they now
exist is not to provide care...but rather to limit it, restrict it and
provide the cheapest care possible. Ever since I went through a
catastrophic illness I have spent a considerable part of each week (the last
six plus years) dealing with crap created by insurance. When we look back
at it all, they spent more time trying not to pay for stuff they authorized
than any other single activity. For the most part, with a few glaring
exceptions, doctors were ok with billing accurately...but hospitals were
horrendous too...so with all the stuff created by hospitals and insurance
companies it is up to the patient to figure it all out...including where
they made mistakes. I've started out a phone call with a hospital owing
them thousands of dollars and ended with them owing me money. I also only
had ONE chance to stay alive...ONE hospital in the entire region could do
what was done...and it was OUT of network...so the bills were huge, BUT...I
could have gone to the in network facility and died...that was an option and
insurance reminded me of that a lot..."YOU made the choice to go out of
network." Our system is bizarre. The hospital they would have paid for is
the system I was in...and THEY sent me to the out of network place because
they threw in the towel. I really laugh at these politico clowns that think
a couple thousand dollars will buy someone good insurance...I'll buy into
that system when they subscribe to it too.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
Let’s not forget education. I’d prefer to have a country of very
healthy as well as cultured, educated and productive people. Not just
a country of very healthy animals. The kind that make excuses.
Anachronistic excuses that the media still teaches some people to
reach for.
MZ
Not meaning to gum up the works again, as it appeared I annoyed you in
the other thread, but I think your proposed system is way too
simplistic to be practical. Especially in light of the fiscal
situation that isn't going away anytime soon. I'm going to invoke a
John C here and mention that in either system, somebody is going to
have to play gatekeeper. Somebody is going to tell you when too much
medical care is too much, or when too many degrees is enough. Will
your system allow a 90 year old grandma with terminal cancer to get
two knee replacements? How long do you keep a brain dead patient on
machines? Should unlimited abortions be paid for, even though many
(if not most) taxpayers would ethically object to it? In principle, I
agree with you that people shouldn't be left to die because they don't
have enough money for a simple medical treatment, but there are huge
shades of gray here, and I'm not confident that we can clarify those
shades in the political arena. It's a tough question no doubt.
Education is a tougher question in my mind. I think american
schooling in its present form is excessive and economically
unproductive. A system where it's even easier to gain education will
make things costlier and even more inefficient. Personally, I think
society should be moving in the OPPOSITE direction of what you
propose, perhaps modeling the system a little more closely to European
and Asian approaches. I think excessive schooling (measured in years)
leads to delayed maturity, more "freeloaders" (in an economic sense),
and frankly has very little benefit. More care should be taken to
teaching children, not 18 year olds, IMO. Formative years ... that's
where it's at. Beyond that, let adults be adults. Productive adults,
hopefully. Not a society full of grown up kids sitting in chairs
listening to a self-proclaimed expert speak about something that's
probably irrelevant. -- this latter point is actually tightly
interwoven with the other thread and the corporate economy, etc.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
No need to concern yourself with annoying me… I appreciate the
discussion. And I agree 100 % with what you wrote above. My “model
society” as detailed above is not a comprehensive model by any stretch
of the imagination. It is more a reflection of my conflicted view of
capitalism ala America 2011. On one hand, free market and reward
amount based on ability and effort level strikes me just fine. It
feels natural. On the other hand, how can you say there is an equal
chance for two people equally talented and equally motivated unless
things like education and medicine are available to all ??? No system
is ideal, but as much as I agree with tooth and claw competition, both
teams should get to wear a helmet and shoulder pads.
Papa Carl
"MZ" <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:cf029c62-9b75-498c...@w7g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Your concerns are excellent. It is a huge issue to be discussed. Under the
current system resources can take away from the possible by dedicating time,
energy and abilities to the impossible. What I mean is if an individual can
pay any amount they can often dictate what medical treatment will be
undertaken, even if it creates a situation where some less fortunate person
with a greater chance of survival will not receive the focus of the medical
attention. UNOS is the National organization that governs organ
transplants...they are undertaking a revision now as to how kidneys will be
allocated and a primary factor will be the potential number of years the new
organ could be used. I agree that more emphasis should also be on young
children in education. We simply need to develop a system of ethics...but
truly ETHICAL. The current business type system and what is being proposed
by the GOP, the privatization is absolutely not ethical. Lots of issues and
it should be done from an ethical perspective based on agreed upon
collective decisions...and what is in the best interest of the Nation.
Papa Carl
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7a385a4c-ec09-486a...@o26g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
X-No-Archive: Yes
JohnC??? You are so f***ed!
:)
I will stay away from healthcare because you will all fall asleep.
On education I agree with Mark on many of his points. My big issue is
that we don't stress to kids that school is one part of the education
and that education is a lifetime process.
As for the test, like Papa, some of the questions are BS.
eg.
On the question about school & religion, that is my choice, so does
that make a leftie or a rightie? I have right wing friends who would
say no & left wing friends that might say yes to that.
There were a bunch more.
Oh, I was in the green: two to the left of the axis and four below the
axis.
I can assure you I am not as Libertarian / Left as that test
indicates....some think I'm an authoritarian ogor.....but the test does not
allow for true answers.
MZ
> I can assure you I am not as Libertarian / Left as that test
> indicates....some think I'm an authoritarian ogor.....but the test does not
> allow for true answers.
I haven't looked at the test, just read you guys' descriptions of it.
If it's the same test I'm thinking of, then this was the one that was
put out by the libertarian party 10+ years ago. The questions are
loaded. Most people fall somewhere near the "libertarian" section.
Johnny Morongo
>
> Oh, I was in the green: two to the left of the axis and four below the
> axis.
>
Green, 7 left, 5 below. Not that it means anything.
Papa Carl
"Johnny Morongo" <j.mir...@harmonicconcordance.com> wrote in message
news:a5dad24a-bd91-4a28...@22g2000prx.googlegroups.com...
I think Mark was correct...a deal created by Libertarians...makes us all
look like we want Libertarian values to some degree....I've seen inside some
prisons...I'm damn glad we have very strict laws :-) Like Richard Pryor
said..."Damn I'm glad we have prisons." It's just there aren't enough white
collar criminals in them, OMHO.
MZ
> "Johnny Morongo" <j.mireh...@harmonicconcordance.com> wrote in message
Strict laws are good for some things, but this chart is very troubling
to me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg
Look at what happened around 1980. Did everybody become a bad guy all
of a sudden? Or did a certain overzealous ex-actor concoct new ways
to throw "undesirables" away? I think it's the latter...
Papa Carl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg
Oh...you are absolutely right...that is why I put in the smile
symbols...When I left coaching and education I went in to behavioral
healthcare for almost 19 years. I worked in the jobs that got me the best
experience too, crisis center teams, outreach, working with police and
finally on an inpatient unit with a lot of older adolescents sent there by
judges. I have NO doubt that two individuals doing exactly the same thing
get totally different treatment because of the color of their skin, economic
background and can they or Daddy get a good lawyer. I can honestly say that
I liked a lot of the "bad" kids labled as gang bangers I worked with too.
In my situation they usually got sent there because of some strange behavior
that a judge thought they saw and other extenuating circumstances...like the
jail was full. This was a definitely class system being practiced.