OT Bus fight
MZ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQJFv9SMSMQ
Why did I think of papacarl after I watched this? :)
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:qpqdnUEsZbQZc-DW...@giganews.com...
> Just came out on youtube and already has over a million hits..
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQJFv9SMSMQ
>
> Why did I think of papacarl after I watched this? :)
I really don't know. I would have avoided that one for sure. But, old
white dudes can get it done. The fool should have just realized he was
talking to a young guy who was looking for something, probably knowing the
girl was using the video. So, I think the white guy has a problem,
but....he did get hit first and he took care of business. I've spent most
of my life in a very mixed environment and just came from a meeting where I
was most definitely a minority so I really can't relate to whatever got this
going. As for the young guy...he should have figured this one out when
the old dude didn't get intimidated. I have to admit, I do love it when that
awareness hits some guys and you can see the sinking feeling in their gut.
But...why make the mistake of getting into something and pick a guy who
pulls out a weapon. Flat out Stupid. And...I don't think his video will
hold up in court. Since it was AC...this had to happen quite some time
ago...it's cold as Hell there now.
Johnctx
I agree 100% with Papa on this. After a rather unsuccessful bar fight
in college, 4 vs. 20+ & me neing part of the 4, my brother-in-law
counseled me and his words stayed with me forever:
1. "No one wins a fight, at best one guy loses more than the other."
2. "Most fights you can always walk away from"
You comments about risk & weapons are something young guys should know.
I would adjust #2 to read, "have to walk away from"
papa.carl44
"Johnctx" <j...@spamtx.net> wrote in message
news:O7-dnUOj1KdCKePW...@giganews.com...
A very few times in my adult life (maybe 2) I've been in a situation where
walking wasn't really an option...remember that I'm 65 so it's a lot of
years involved here. When you can't walk, I always figured on two things,
1) I was going to get hurt and if I didn't it was a nice surprise and 2)
That first punch on my part better be good. I think a lot of young guys of
all groups and categories have it in mind that they can intimidate people,
and I think conversely, a lot of main stream "respectable" folks can be very
easily intimidated. When one of the former encounters someone who is a
surprise to them, doesn't back down and isn't intimidated, sometimes that is
enough in itself. In the case of the video, I really think the young ladies
being there forced the issue. The young guy who got up and followed the
older man to the front to hit him probably would not have done that if the
girls had not been there and being so verbal. He played a role, and acted
out something he thought was expected of him...and got his ass kicked in
doing so. Why can't we all just get along? Now...I watched a few times and
really can't figure out what happened to start this thing off, something was
said, and misinterpreted I suspect. There is no shortage of stupid people,
especially in AC. To me, it seems our culture seems to celebrate ignorance
and stupidity these days, just listen to Washington. :-)
Conroy
wrote:
> Now...I watched a few times and
> really can't figure out what happened to start this thing off, something was
> said, and misinterpreted I suspect. There is no shortage of stupid people,
I believe the first thing that was said was "how much you charge to
spitshine my shoes?" followed by "why should a brother have to
spitshine your shoes" and it blew up from there
papa.carl44
"Conroy" <conro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:24ae9167-cddd-46c1...@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
In that case, if the older guy said that...he is clearly a total ass, and
scum bag. No matter how he handled himself in terms of self defense, he did
act like a loose cannon and looked a little strange too. What I would
really question here is the bus driver...all of this crap is going on in the
bus and it just keeps going...the driver should have stopped the bus and
summoned police assistance ASAP. There isn't any right or wrong here...they
were all acting like low lifes. And if it was the older guy who initiated
it with a statement like that, he was the lowest of the gang. To be honest,
I was a little offended when my name was inserted as a reference. Nobody in
this group really knows anyone else except for a few who have met. For that
matter, you don't even know my ethnic background or race. I can assure you
I would never act like that guy...the old one. Papa Carl
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:qpqdnUEsZbQZc-DW...@giganews.com...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQJFv9SMSMQ
>
> Why did I think of papacarl after I watched this? :)
Mark, Is that the kind of guy you think I am? Someone who is a racist?
Who would ask a Black person something like that? What have I done here to
give you that idea? I'm really curious. Papa Carl
MZ
From what I've read, the white guy asked the black guy to make room for
a lady to sit down, and the black guy said "want me to spit shine your
shoes too?" The black guy brought the "spit shine" thing into it, not
the white guy.
But I don't agree with you on this one. The white guy didn't provoke
the confrontation. In fact, as soon as things became escalated, he
WALKED AWAY. The black guy then initiated physical contact.
I agree, the smartest thing would have been to stop jawing. But there's
a big difference between jawing and turning it physical. The white guy
is completely in the innocent as far as that's concerned. He really
didn't do anything to turn it into a physical confrontation. He didn't
stand up, he didn't get in the guy's face, etc.
MZ
I see no evidence that any of this was racial. Dude walked away.
The real trash in this video are the women who video taped it and egged
the black guy on to "beat his white ass".
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
Got it....I watched it several times and couldn't really figure out what got
it started..if it was what you said you read, it was all on the young
guy...AND...the girls are the real problem, along with whoever was driving
the bus. I'd love to hear that story. The driver had to know there was a
confrontation going on. IF...and IF...it was what you read, you are right.
It was on the young guy, but it was most definitely racial if he responded
to a request to make room for someone to sit down with the "assumed" racism
remark. The old guy did walk away, and got followed. Plus, the young guy
went back a second time encouraged by the girls. After I left teaching /
coaching (in '91) I went to work in behavioral healthcare. I can not tell
you how many of the crisis situations we had to treat in a county wide
crisis center that were generated by some young female encouraging,
requesting, demanding or whatever a young male to exact violence on someone.
Of course, the guys who got into the difficulties were stupid too...but we
all know men do some dumb things to impress women. I have problems hearing
that are getting worse. I really could not figure out a lot of what was
going on. When the young guy came to the front of the bus...the driver
ABSOLUTELY should have stopped and intervened.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
But....you still didn't tell me why it made you think of me...why did it?
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:qpqdnUEsZbQZc-DW...@giganews.com...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQJFv9SMSMQ
>
> Why did I think of papacarl after I watched this? :)
A little bit of searching reveals that the older white guy who is a Viet Nam
veteran, is most likely somewhat unstable and may have been under the
influence. It is unclear and was never recorded as to how the argument
actually began. One comment made to one of the sites that posted the video
claimed the young guy offered to shine the guys shoes for him, but most say
the older guy asked first. Apparently some people in the area where this
took place know the older man. The questions this older guy are asking are
about how much it would cost to shine his shoes because he is going to a
funeral. The younger man took these questions as a racial slur. Then it
all began. The young woman who was taping this actually admitted she went
out for the day to tape something worth while...that is what she does. She
also taped herself taking the older guys groceries and suggesting they go
through it..after the guy left the bus. Some who were there claimed that
both men were under the influence. This is a very sad situation, and a sad
story. There is no doubt the incident was loaded with racial tension...if
you listen to a clearer version of it you can hear that.
But...Mark, I would still like to know why you chose to include me in this?
I don't think it is particularly humerous. You have never met me, don't
know a thing about me. I find your characterization of me rather
upsetting. I do wish you would respond.
papa.carl44
I chose to take jobs that put me on the 3:00 to 11:30 shift at a city
hospital. I was in the trenches and saw a lot of things. I also had the
opportunity to learn a lot and when I had completed additional education and
earned a license to practice I was far more prepared than many who avoid
this front line kind of work. Perhaps that is why I don't see anything
amusing about this. Neither of these men were young. The younger, black
man, was 50. The older man was 67 and had been the subject of YouTube
videos before when he was arrested at a baseball game. He is mentally
disturbed and was off his meds. However, it appears he did initiate the
incident with the "shoeshine" remark. So, contrary to what someone in the
group claimed, it was a racial incident to some degree. But, I doubt that
it was intended to be that by the mentally ill man who got this thing going.
The girl filming it was a college student who does just this..she goes out
and films incidents. She claims she didn't know either of these men. It
took place in Oakland. CA. I mistakenly thought it must have been Atlantic
City because of the name of the transit company. I think it is a real shame
that no other passengers on this bus attempted to intervene in this
incident. The fact the older of the men was not well was fairly evident,
especially if one watches the rest of the video available. I'm certain
people who were there before this all got video'd would have been able to
figure that out. What a shame, when this is what goes viral, and the
incredible number of hits it gets and all of the incredibly ignorant and
racist garbage that was posted as a result of this thing.
As I stated, when I worked in that city hospital I had the opportunity to
work with many people who were very much like these guys. It's easy to
watch this and judge. My findings were these were just people, and most of
the time people who had not had so good a deal out of life. My experience
was and remains that if you treat most people with respect and know how to
approach a mentally ill person you can usually prevent these things from
escalating. The people around this seemed to want to watch it get worse.
It has also been reported that when the police did arrive the older
gentleman surrendered himself and put his hands behind his back to be
cuffed...and he was. The young woman who taped it claims she did not take
the bag of groceries but rather put it in the front of the bus. I believe
she can be heard stating, "We should go through this." But she has not been
charged so I would guess she did put it at the front of the bus.
It is very sick and very sad that this is what amuses Americans today.
Glenn Greenstein
wrote:
> "MZ" <m...@nospam.void> wrote in message
>
> news:bvidneuZWqFTZ-PW...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> > papa.carl44 wrote:
> >> "MZ" <m...@nospam.void> wrote in message
> >>news:qpqdnUEsZbQZc-DW...@giganews.com...
> >>> Just came out on youtube and already has over a million hits..
>
> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQJFv9SMSMQ
>
> >>> Why did I think of papacarl after I watched this? :)
>
> >> Mark, Is that the kind of guy you think I am? Someone who is a racist?
> >> Who would ask a Black person something like that? What have I done here
> >> to give you that idea? I'm really curious. Papa Carl
>
> > I see no evidence that any of this was racial. Dude walked away.
>
> > The real trash in this video are the women who video taped it and egged
> > the black guy on to "beat his white ass".
>
> But....you still didn't tell me why it made you think of me...why did it?
Papa, I think mark was saying it with a bit of tongue in cheek.
papa.carl44
"Glenn Greenstein" <lex...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:60e995e5-9348-447a...@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
OK, I got that, but it still doesn't answer why he would think I'm a
mentally ill dude who gets into fights. I think that's fair. It isn't like
this is a closed forum, when you suggest that type stuff here it's literally
out there. I really like what Mark has to say about football, he is
extremely accurate and brings up great points. I would guess I'm more
concerned that I've conveyed this image somehow.
Ray O'Hara
"papa.carl44" <papad...@nospamverizon.net> wrote in message
news:65-dnUIksvIfveLW...@giganews.com...
bus drivers don't get paid enogh to get involved.
in Boston buses have a light on the top the driver can activate to alert any
nearby police there is trouble on board
Tutor
wrote:
> "MZ" <m...@nospam.void> wrote in message
It was Oakland, CA
There are 3 other youtube videos now: one from the scene before the
Nam vet got on the bus. He was carrying on like a wild man, but non
threatening. Another of the woman who stole the Vietnam vet's bag
during the whole fracas, and finally the interview of the old guy
after it was over. Apparently, the black kid was arrested for parole
violatiuon (carrying a weapon) and he is pretty much screwed. The old
guy served 14 years in prison after Nam for selling drugs and
'pimping". The sheriff returned his stolen bag but there was still
stuff miossing from the vultures on the bus who seized the opportunity
to steal.
I laugheded when the bleeding kid said "send ambulamps". "Ambulamps"?
papa.carl44
"Tutor" <dcat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a36b7ad7-a9a0-438f...@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
It was Oakland, CA
The "kid" is 50 years old.
Ritchie
> papa.carl44 wrote:
> > "MZ" <m...@nospam.void> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
In the NYPD when it comes to fights we have a saying "the loser goes
to the hospital, the winner goes to jail". Not necessarily always the
case but for the most part.
Remy McSwain
>
> "MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
> news:qpqdnUEsZbQZc-DW...@giganews.com...
>> Just came out on youtube and already has over a million hits..
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQJFv9SMSMQ
>>
>> Why did I think of papacarl after I watched this? :)
>
> A little bit of searching reveals that the older white guy who is a Viet
> Nam veteran, is most likely somewhat unstable and may have been under the
> influence. It is unclear and was never recorded as to how the argument
> actually began. One comment made to one of the sites that posted the
> video claimed the young guy offered to shine the guys shoes for him, but
> most say the older guy asked first. Apparently some people in the area
> where this took place know the older man. The questions this older guy
> are asking are about how much it would cost to shine his shoes because he
> is going to a funeral. The younger man took these questions as a racial
> slur. Then it all began. The young woman who was taping this actually
> admitted she went out for the day to tape something worth while...that is
> what she does. She also taped herself taking the older guys groceries and
> suggesting they go through it..after the guy left the bus. Some who were
> there claimed that both men were under the influence. This is a very sad
> situation, and a sad story. There is no doubt the incident was loaded
> with racial tension...if you listen to a clearer version of it you can
> hear that.
I saw an interview of the old guy, and he claims that he was talking to a
friend, and said that he had to go to a funeral, and needed money to get
there, and needed to have his boy spit shine his shoes. The black guy
assumed that the word boy meant a black guy, and so he started to mouth off
to the white guy.
Even had the white guy explicitly referred to a black guy as "boy", the fact
remains that the white guy tried to defuse by moving to the front of the
bus, but the black guy went up there twice to confront the white guy, and
the black guy initiated the violence.
Glenn Greenstein
> "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:QtydnZU0YKrw_OLW...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "MZ" <m...@nospam.void> wrote in message
Anyone who watched the video can see the white guy was not the one who
started the fight, he just finished it The black guy picked on the
wrong old man.
Ray O'Hara
"Ritchie" <ritch...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:32dc5c30-3413-4e36...@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com...
========================================================================
I like the comment by the loser's friend where she says she has it all
recorded and she can show the police.
the ideo damns her friend, the white guy walked away and the black guy shose
to continue it.
he should have taken the advice of the older woman to not bother. she was
right it wasn't worth it.
and yeah the white guy was a racist ass.
Johnctx
PC, not kidding, they push the wrong guy & he recahes his breaking
point. They then found out the 5'7" 160 lb white guy was a college
wrestler/boxer/ special forces guy who not only knew how to hurt you but
actually would hurt you.
>In the case of the video, I really think the young ladies
> being there forced the issue.
LOL, great point. How many times have you seen that happen? It isn't a
coincidence movies show young women as idiots. Maybe it is youth.
MZ
Ha. An older guy with a bit of a short fuse (at least on this
newsgroup) provoked by a younger guy.
MZ
I think based on the conversation it's clear that the black guy was the
one who brought up the "shining shoes" thing. The white guy said "you
offered!" and the black guy didn't deny that.
MZ
I didn't mean any disrespect by it. It was a big story -- a lot of
youtube hits and then it made the news. That's why I posted it to this
group. I joked that it reminded me of you -- not because I think you're
a fighter or anything like that, but because you've gotten into it with
some folks in this newsgroup. The usenet equivalent of a "fight".
Johnctx
Papa, I laughed when Mark referenced you as your nomme de guerre and
hair trigger temper on some issues.
I didn't see a crazy guy. I saw a guy that had to be attacked before he
retaliated. A tough guy with incredible restraint isn't the worst
characterization I can think of, how about you?
:)
papa.carl44
Absolutely, don't pick on a guy who is off his meds, especially when you are
wasted too.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
And who took care of business? :-)
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
I'll agree....give you that one. I've had many a lecture from family
members about that too. In years gone by I was very easily "set off"...but
only by a very specific type of person. It was weird, I never got
frustrated with any of the kids or players I worked with. I didn't even
find "patients" difficult when I changed careers and worked in behavioral
healthcare. It was always some guy who felt a need to "share" their
certitude about things with others...and look down at almost everyone else
in the process. I've tried to mellow. I think guys on usenet get into
fights the same way guys on booze do....their courage is built by either the
booze (which can get them pretty beat up) or as with usenet, they don't
fear any consequence so they say things they would never say face to face.
In the case of the latter, I think we find a lot of that, usenet, Facebook,
blogs or wherever some guy who may in reality be afraid of his own shadow,
wants to "be a man" when he hits that keyboard. The older I get, the less I
know and the less I trust anyone who claims to have all the facts or to be
an expert. I know how to find facts out, and I can do a pretty good job of
evaluating things, so when someone tells me why I don't understand
something, they are really saying they don't like my conclusions and I must
listen to them...that isn't going to work. :-) In this sad bus incident,
both of these guys needed help. I'm still convinced from watching several
of the videos around now that someone on that bus could have intervened and
de-escalated it. At least neither of them was seriously hurt.
papa.carl44
Oh you have no idea how I have improved. I had a supervisor one time who
gave me a coffee cup that showed a guy leading a meeting and looking
directly at one individual gathered around the table. The text said,
"Johnson, That is the stupides thing I've ever heard, I'm going to have to
kill you." She gave it to me as a compliment and sing of our close
friendship. We really did work well together and she told me she liked the
fact I would just "say it." I didn't let the fact that the idiot spewing
his nonsense was a psychiatrist or even the assistant CEO...if it was
stupid, I felt an obligation to say that. Over the years, that brought me
some awesome friends and support from some great people. But...I do try to
be more gentle. The funny thing is, kids always get along with me and me
them. Kids like the truth, they hate being lied to. BTW...I did see a
crazy guy...he definitely looked and sounded like someone off his meds...all
those "jerky" movements and reactions are a sign of that. I think the whole
"shoe shine" deal may have been his inability to differentiate who he was
addressing and thought he was talking to a friend from a different
situation...that is often the case with mentally ill people.
Tutor
> Just came out on youtube and already has over a million hits..
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQJFv9SMSMQ
>
> Why did I think of papacarl after I watched this? :)
I hope you all realize that this unfortunate bus incident is entirely
Schottenheimer's fault.
Johnny Morongo
That and 9/11 too.
Johnctx
Good one!
Ray O'Hara
======================================================================
the black guy shouldn't have hired him.