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OT: MSNBC Reports Penn State Officials Terminate Paterno Immediately

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Papa Carl

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Nov 9, 2011, 10:54:48 PM11/9/11
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I get these phone news updates...just got that one. I'm not surprised.


Papa Carl

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Nov 9, 2011, 11:16:37 PM11/9/11
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"Papa Carl" <papa...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:aLydnbsCUPeU1ibT...@giganews.com...
>I get these phone news updates...just got that one. I'm not surprised.


Spanier gone too.


Michael

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Nov 9, 2011, 11:32:35 PM11/9/11
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On Nov 9, 11:16 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:aLydnbsCUPeU1ibT...@giganews.com...
>
> >I get these phone news updates...just got that one.  I'm not surprised.
>
> Spanier gone too.

no way cold they let him finish the season. they will have him off
the campus by morning. when you consider his tenure, what he was
known to stand for, the scope of the penn state program and its
*former reputation*, this is without a doubt the biggest disaster in
national sports history.

Ritchie

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Nov 10, 2011, 12:15:11 AM11/10/11
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On Nov 9, 10:54 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I get these phone news updates...just got that one.  I'm not surprised.

What I don't get is the idiot students protesting in support of
Paterno. Don't they realize that at the minimal this man turned his
back on the innocent children and let this monster continue what he
was doing?

Papa Carl

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Nov 10, 2011, 12:24:20 AM11/10/11
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"Ritchie" <ritch...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e49565ba-5446-4a28...@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
I'm totally with you...I just do not get this at all. On the other hand I
was never a big fan of most of these guys...the "super ego coaches"....I met
him a couple times at clinics etc. And, one guy I worked with actually did
know him...and did not like him at all. The impression I got from a lot of
coaches who sent kids there to play was he was not much interested in the
kid really but far more in himself, the program and what he got out of
it...this was truly big time football. I was aware many years ago of one
situation where a kid who was just a freshman got caught with some other
upper classmen drinking on campus and being disorderly...the freshman got
canned...the guys who played got out of it...in other words, Joe made one of
them a scapegoat and it was the one who was the least valuable to the
program. Over the years that type of story was told to me a few times.
Still....I was totally shocked when I heard this...how in the HELL could you
even speak to Sandusky or be in the same room with him after you were told
what he did, and after the first investigations and after he was asked to
stay away...then let him back?????? This really sickens me.


Papa Carl

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Nov 10, 2011, 1:52:10 AM11/10/11
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"Ritchie" <ritch...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e49565ba-5446-4a28...@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
Maybe someone needs to explain to the kids rioting that Sandusky created
this mess that Joe Pa didn't follow up on and it is in essence his fault
then...so then turn Sandusky over to the mob....this so sickens me I would
not even protest the action of not letting the system do it's due....that
animal should be drawn and quartered.
I also refuse to believe that the top levels of the Univ. did not know about
this and were not just hoping it would all go away eventually. It's all
about money and power.


Michael

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Nov 10, 2011, 10:17:17 AM11/10/11
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On Nov 10, 12:24 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Ritchie" <ritchie1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e49565ba-5446-4a28...@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 9, 10:54 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I get these phone news updates...just got that one. I'm not surprised.
>
> What I don't get is the idiot students protesting in support of
> Paterno. Don't they realize that at the minimal this man turned his
> back on the innocent children and let this monster continue what he
> was doing?
>
>
>
> I'm totally with you...I just do not get this at all.  On the other hand I
> was never a big fan of most of these guys...the "super ego coaches"....I met
> him a couple times at clinics etc.  And, one guy I worked with actually did
> know him...and did not like him at all.  The impression I got from a lot of
> coaches who sent kids there to play was he was not much interested in the
> kid really but far more in himself,

Papa... That would explain a lot as far as this scandal goes. Paterno
is not such a good guy. His real motive is self peservation and self
promotion. He cultivated an image and apparantly, would let nothing
stand in the way of prserving it. He put himself, his image and his
standing with the program ahead of his humanity and concern for the
well being of those people that were being victimized. It seems that
simple.



PatsSox

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Nov 10, 2011, 10:46:30 AM11/10/11
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"Ritchie" <ritch...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
--------------------

I'm trying really hard to understand what these students are
thinking. Perhaps they're not aware of all the details... or they're just
too damn stupid to figure out what was going on. How they can support
Paterno after what he did... or didn't do... is beyond my comprehension.


Papa Carl

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Nov 10, 2011, 11:46:01 AM11/10/11
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"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:71f9a2c8-d972-4c94...@u28g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
It seems you are right...and sadly so. The last guy I worked with knew
everybody...he had been a D1 assistant himself and was a very successful
coach. I was fortunate that when I was there he took me to everything with
him and was great to me in that regard. He was a major ego...a lot of them
are and I think have to be to do the job in the "old school" model. My
colleague was very well respected too, however...he did not like Joe
Pa....he was very nice to him and did all the right things...but he was one
of the few big time coaches I ever heard him say negative things about. I
got to meet a lot of big names...some were very nice. At one point back in
the 80's I had cancer during the summer before football season...a couple of
these big names actually called me and one even came to my house to see
me...nothing in that for them...but most were arrogant ego guys. I just
always figured that if the guy I worked with didn't like them there was a
lot he wasn't telling me. Penn State is a brand...just like Sony or
GM...and they worked hard on what that brand said and they knew who they
were selling it to. Now...the most arrogant bastard I ever got to meet
and observe close up at a clinic was Holtz. We saw him in action inbetween
sessions at a clinic in Washington DC back in 82....the way he treated the
people trying to help him said it all.




Michael

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Nov 10, 2011, 12:11:53 PM11/10/11
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On Nov 10, 11:46 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> people trying to help him said it all.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

excellent post, papa...thanx for sharing... my modest sports
background only includes baseball and I stopped playing after high
school, so i never knew a single football coach. when i was in little
league my father was a baseball coach at that level and did it for
four years. he got out of it because because he felt the parents and
other coaches were over the top with it and he had enough. i remember
one interesting excersize he had his team do at the start of every
practice and just before a game. the entire team would line up in
front of the dugout with perfectly equal spacing between each kid.
then we'd turn to the right at the same time and take a slow lap
around the diamond in exact step and maintian a perfect distance
between the guy in front and back. when we got to the dugout, we'd
all fall in line exactly where we were before. My old man would
always tell the kids... When you are in your uniform and ready to play
or practice, nothing else should be in your head. It is only baseball.
When the game or practice is over, baseball does not exhist for you
kids because you arent getting paid to do it.

yoyodog

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Nov 10, 2011, 1:29:38 PM11/10/11
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"Ritchie" <ritch...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e49565ba-5446-4a28...@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
As someone posted in another NG (alt.sports.hockey.nhl.mtl-canadiens):

"Our fans have had our ugly moments, but at least we've never rioted in
support of a child molester-protecting old fool."



Message has been deleted

Ritchie

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Nov 10, 2011, 5:29:57 PM11/10/11
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On Nov 10, 3:22 pm, John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > >> I get these phone news updates...just got that one.  I'm not surprised.
>
> > > What I don't get is the idiot students protesting in support of
> > > Paterno. Don't they realize that at the minimal this man turned his
> > > back on the innocent children and let this monster continue what he
> > > was doing?
>
> > As someone posted in another NG (alt.sports.hockey.nhl.mtl-canadiens):
>
> > "Our fans have had our ugly moments, but at least we've never rioted in
> > support of a child molester-protecting old fool."
>
> It was so unseemly to watch those dopes at his house.
>
> Also at first the focus on who was wrong & who was to blame was very
> tough to read  & listen to because through all this to me it is about
> the lives destroyed both children & parents.  Listening to talk radio
> idiots that don't know the law & hearing them talk about how they know
> "exactly" how they would have handled this made me laugh. I
> fortunately have no experience with this and have no idea how I would
> have reacted.  I might have done a Joe Pa.  I don't think I could have
> done a Curley
>
> Sacking Joe P was the only option. I just hope they can help those
> kids.

They should have sacked McQueary also! Leaving him to still coach in
the game is just as wrong if not more because he saw it the rape
happening and did nothing to get that child out of danger!

Johnny Morongo

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Nov 10, 2011, 6:30:23 PM11/10/11
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On 11/10/2011 2:29 PM, Ritchie wrote:
> On Nov 10, 3:22 pm, John C TX<johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> X-No-Archive: Yes
>>
>>>>> I get these phone news updates...just got that one. I'm not surprised.
>>
>>>> What I don't get is the idiot students protesting in support of
>>>> Paterno. Don't they realize that at the minimal this man turned his
>>>> back on the innocent children and let this monster continue what he
>>>> was doing?
>>
>>> As someone posted in another NG (alt.sports.hockey.nhl.mtl-canadiens):
>>
>>> "Our fans have had our ugly moments, but at least we've never rioted in
>>> support of a child molester-protecting old fool."
>>
>> It was so unseemly to watch those dopes at his house.
>>
>> Also at first the focus on who was wrong& who was to blame was very
>> tough to read& listen to because through all this to me it is about
>> the lives destroyed both children& parents. Listening to talk radio
>> idiots that don't know the law& hearing them talk about how they know
>> "exactly" how they would have handled this made me laugh. I
>> fortunately have no experience with this and have no idea how I would
>> have reacted. I might have done a Joe Pa. I don't think I could have
>> done a Curley
>>
>> Sacking Joe P was the only option. I just hope they can help those
>> kids.
>
> They should have sacked McQueary also! Leaving him to still coach in
> the game is just as wrong if not more because he saw it the rape
> happening and did nothing to get that child out of danger!

+10

graybeard

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Nov 10, 2011, 6:38:46 PM11/10/11
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On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:29:57 -0800 (PST), Ritchie
<ritch...@gmail.com> wrote:

>They should have sacked McQueary also! Leaving him to still coach in
>the game is just as wrong if not more because he saw it the rape
>happening and did nothing to get that child out of danger!

Of all the things surrounding this matter, McQueary's actions are what I
find the most unfathomable. He was 28 years old at the time, an ex
football player, and instead of confronting Sandusky he turns tail and
runs to call his daddy? If McQueary has a shred of decency in his body,
which apparently he didn't back then, he should resign immediately and
never show his face in State College again.
--
graybeard

MZ

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Nov 10, 2011, 6:54:06 PM11/10/11
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You may be right, but Paterno's the boss. He knew what was going on.
As boss, part of his job description is to exert control over what
goes on in the facilities. While McQueary had an ethical obligation
to do something about it, Paterno had an additional obligation -- one
that he got paid for -- and he failed at it. So, even if you ignore
the ethical issues here, the fact is that Paterno did a pretty crappy
job as a manager, which was essentially his title.

Ritchie

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Nov 10, 2011, 6:59:10 PM11/10/11
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On Nov 10, 6:38 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:29:57 -0800 (PST), Ritchie
>
I agree. Paterno and the rest of the university staff ignoring it was
wrong but seeing it actually happen and not doing anything about it is
the worst part of it. My wife and I have no children and never wanted
any, but I can never ever turn my back on a child when they need help.
I cant count how many times I responded to a child abuse case as a
police officer and cried when I saw what some pos had done to a child,
and the rage that I felt when I confronted the person. At that point
my partner would take over because he knew that I was feeling it. I
had a child die in my arms (choked on a marble) and I felt so horrible
that I couldn't do anything that my sergeant told me to go home and
when I got home all I could do was cry. No child should suffer, ever.
I would love to get my hands on McQueary for 10 minutes and make him
suffer to the point that he would beg me to kill him! Sorry about this
rant but when you see the crimes that I have seen committed against
children things like what happened at Penn State bring back memories/
feelings that I don't want to recall.

Papa Carl

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Nov 10, 2011, 7:18:04 PM11/10/11
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"Ritchie" <ritch...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:20b09b18-d36c-4738...@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
I hope the bastard has nightmares for the rest of his life about it.


Papa Carl

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Nov 10, 2011, 7:17:21 PM11/10/11
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"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:unnob71e1t4h6t55s...@4ax.com...
What you are seeing is how deeply that "loyalty" crap is imbedded in
them...this is the real drink the kool aide deal...they would never do
anything that could hurt Joe or the "program"...that is how it is in many of
these big programs.


graybeard

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Nov 10, 2011, 8:28:21 PM11/10/11
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On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:18:04 -0500, "Papa Carl" <papa...@verizon.net>
wrote:
Considering McQueary must have encountered Sandusky numerous times over
the last decade, and possibly even worked with him, without any apparent
qualms, his nightmares can't have been too bad.
--
graybeard

graybeard

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Nov 10, 2011, 8:58:51 PM11/10/11
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On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:54:06 -0800 (PST), MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org>
wrote:

>You may be right, but Paterno's the boss. He knew what was going on.
>As boss, part of his job description is to exert control over what
>goes on in the facilities. While McQueary had an ethical obligation
>to do something about it, Paterno had an additional obligation -- one
>that he got paid for -- and he failed at it. So, even if you ignore
>the ethical issues here, the fact is that Paterno did a pretty crappy
>job as a manager, which was essentially his title.

He wasn't Sandusky's boss. Sandusky had retired 3 years prior to the
2002 incident. Paterno wasn't the owner of the building where the crime
was committed - that was Penn State property. The only obligation he had
in accordance with the established protocol as far as his job title was
concerned was to report the information to the Athletic Director, which
he did. Paterno had no managerial responsibility, or indeed authority,
to do anything else beyond that.

The question then becomes, what exactly did McQueary tell Paterno that
he had witnessed? If he did indeed inform Paterno of the graphic details
that he supplied to the Grand Jury, or even just made sure that Paterno
was aware that some kind of sexual incident had occurred, then Paterno
certainly had a moral responsibility to follow up and see that action
was taken which would be commensurate with the crime. It would be very
interesting to find out from McQueary exactly what he told Paterno that
day.

More heinous to me, at least until we get more information, is the
behavior of Curley and Schultz, who allowed Sandusky to keep using Penn
State facilities with the stipulation that he was not to bring any more
young boys to the campus. It's the equivalent of saying, "We don't care
what you do, just don't do it here."
--
graybeard

MZ

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Nov 10, 2011, 10:14:31 PM11/10/11
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If Paterno had no responsibility, then why did he get fired?

graybeard

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Nov 11, 2011, 2:18:56 AM11/11/11
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On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:14:31 -0800 (PST), MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org>
Paterno may well have been negligent or culpable in ways we just don't
know about yet, but I prefer to hold off on my final judgment of him
until more facts about the chain of events come to light. Consider this:
technically McQueary and Paterno followed exactly the same prescribed
procedure, which was to report the incident to their superiors. Yet one
gets fired and the other doesn't. Why? I have read that Penn State may
be on shaky legal grounds when it comes to firing McQueary, because of
Pennsylvania's whistle-blower law, which states that a public employee
can not be fired for making a good faith report of an illegal activity.
I also suspect that McQueary's legal counsel arranged for immunity in
exchange for his testimony, since his eyewitness account represents the
most important evidence in the case. I would hate to think that the
trustees used Paterno, the biggest name available, as a fall guy to
deflect attention from the school's failure to deal properly with the
matter, but it wouldn't surprise me if that is what transpired.
--
graybeard

Ritchie

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Nov 11, 2011, 3:40:22 AM11/11/11
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Most schools also have a morality clause which I am sure the board
could invoke. McQueary may have followed proper procedure when it came
to reporting the incident to his superiors but he allowed a child to
suffer while running home to daddy to ask him what he should do. This
was at the time a 28 year old man and should be held accountable for
his lack of action and decency. He should have to be forced to have
the word coward tattooed across his forehead in big 2 inch block
letters for the rest of his life. He most likely has a deal with the
AG because he is an actual eyewitness but his immunity should be for
non prosecution, not employment. Even if the school did use Paterno as
a scapegoat it still does not excuse his lack of action. Personally
IMHO Paterno is just as bad and guilty as Sandusky!

Ritchie

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Nov 11, 2011, 8:06:58 AM11/11/11
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Spoke too soon. I talked to a friend who is a criminal law attorney in
PA and he stated that the state can enforce a deal that allows someone
to keep their job in exchange for immunity and cooperation. Especially
since it is a state university. Personally I don't agree with this
because not facing prosecution should be enough of a deal maker.
McQueary doesn't deserve to keep his job at all. It has been reported
that Paterno has hired a criminal defense attorney to represent him in
the ongoing investigation so there might be more developments in
regards to if Paterno will be facing any charges or not. I hope he
does get charged just to see the moron squirm. Also McQueary will not
be at the game on Saturday due to death threats.

MZ

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Nov 11, 2011, 8:11:02 AM11/11/11
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I suppose. But everyone I know familiar with that program has said
that it's like a monarchy over there. There's nothing that Paterno
doesn't control. While he may have made the right decision legally,
the fact that he continued to allow this guy to operate makes him
culpable, in my view. If you were Paterno, would you have honestly
done the same thing he did? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt
and assume he's a human being -- in which case, it again comes down to
bad management. He used his power in the worse way: he looked the
other way.

Papa Carl

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Nov 11, 2011, 9:04:04 AM11/11/11
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"MZ" <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:b38a48b3-2fed-4672...@o13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
My very little contact and what I always heard while coaching was Joe was
KING...and he knew everything and ultimately made every decision...Mark you
are right in your assumptions and I "assume" the same based on many years of
what I kept hearing. NOW....THIS is very interesting...the prosecutor of
the '98 allegegations and case just suddenly disappeared and has never been
found..not him or his body...AND...his laptop wound up in a river with the
hard drive missing....AND...Texas has now begun an investigation because
Sandusky took a kid to a bowl game there in '99 and allegedly abused him.
This is getting bigger...and it is going directly to things other should and
would have known about. Do I think some die hard Penn State zealot would
off a prosecutor...Hell Yes.


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