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Re: This game is on management...
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Papa Carl
Oct 2, 2011, 10:42:56 PM10/2/11
to
"buRford" <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
news:ui5i87tdhpml29hd5...@4ax.com...
> Very simply, they chose to go with what they had, rather than trying to
> improve the OL.
> We all knew they had a problem at RT, and a big lack of depth.
> So, once we lost Robert Turner, then Mangold, we've gotten exactly what
> would've been
> expected.
> And in the process, they're gonna get Sanchez killed.
>
> On the D side, we're having the exact same problems as last season, a lack
> of
> pass-coverage, in the middle of the field... and a weak pass-rush.
This comes from no rush...you can't expect the strong safety in the seam to
cover for as long as they let the receiver go...that is ALL because of not
pressure up the middle...ever. When they can get some action going it is
always on a blitz giving something up or coming from the outside with extra
D backs...that does little to take pressure off the safeties...this is poor
planning....you can't expect to scheme this all the time without some REAL D
linemen.
>
> And lastly, they have an offense that is totally predictable. It often
> looks like
> opposing defenses are in the huddle. They decided to stand-pat with the
> same OC, and
> again, they got what would be expected. He has no clue how to adjust to
> what defenses
> throw at him.
>
> This is on management for going for imaginary players (Aso), & ignoring
> weaknesses they
> needed to address.
>
> The only hope, is that the players are tough pros, and will not quit.
> So, maybe this can turn into a game, if the Ravens let-up a bit... a
> natural human
> reaction to totally dominating an opponent.
Agree with all the rest...thing is now...Schott doesn't even get a chance to
look bad...can't tell what the Hell it is the rush is so strong. They are
ill prepared...to not see Reed so free? Can't happen...they pass off people
like I've never seen...it is absolutely horrendous line play...and looks to
be so not just because of who is playing it but the design of it...it's a
freaking mess.
Michael
Oct 3, 2011, 12:22:31 AM10/3/11
to
On Oct 2, 10:42 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "buRford" <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
> freaking mess.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
yep... the entire offense is a disaster... agree with your point qed.
the line play was so bad, schotty did not have a chance to look bad.
mangold was a loss, but even with one starter out, there is no excuse
for a pro line to look so bad. in the second quarter, the defense got
the game under control.... in the third quarter, the defense got
sanchez into scoring position with an oppertunity to close the game to
one score... all they needed to make it a one score game was a FG.
sanchez did the one thing he he was not supposed to do.... he gave the
ravens a pick six. he is too short to see the coverage or he is just
too dull on the fly. after the sanchez pick six, the defense
folded. we were discussing that in a previous post... the defense
will will tire of playing hard when the offense shows NO chance at all
of being able to do anything productive even after speacial teams
points and defensive points and defensive turn overs. i know a lot of
people probably are not happy with the jets defense, but they did
bring their half of the game under control and gave the offense a
perfect oppertunity to bring it to a one score game... the offense
blew it. the ravens defense is good, but not as good as the jets
offense made them look. the offensice scheme sucks, the line sucks,
they have no deep ranging wr to speak of and sanchez keeps making the
same mistakes. the offense is so bad, the defense is playing for a
pay check and little else.
> "buRford" <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
yep... the entire offense is a disaster... agree with your point qed.
the line play was so bad, schotty did not have a chance to look bad.
mangold was a loss, but even with one starter out, there is no excuse
for a pro line to look so bad. in the second quarter, the defense got
the game under control.... in the third quarter, the defense got
sanchez into scoring position with an oppertunity to close the game to
one score... all they needed to make it a one score game was a FG.
sanchez did the one thing he he was not supposed to do.... he gave the
ravens a pick six. he is too short to see the coverage or he is just
too dull on the fly. after the sanchez pick six, the defense
folded. we were discussing that in a previous post... the defense
will will tire of playing hard when the offense shows NO chance at all
of being able to do anything productive even after speacial teams
points and defensive points and defensive turn overs. i know a lot of
people probably are not happy with the jets defense, but they did
bring their half of the game under control and gave the offense a
perfect oppertunity to bring it to a one score game... the offense
blew it. the ravens defense is good, but not as good as the jets
offense made them look. the offensice scheme sucks, the line sucks,
they have no deep ranging wr to speak of and sanchez keeps making the
same mistakes. the offense is so bad, the defense is playing for a
pay check and little else.
Papa Carl
Oct 3, 2011, 1:16:58 AM10/3/11
to
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:fd792a63-e73c-4a40...@z19g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
______________________________________________________________________
Grinch or whoever can roll out all the freakin statistics they want...and it
is all BS. This offense is HORENDOUS...and it is not just the O
line...these guys don't KNOW what to do...this was not just a case of
someone getting run over...they didn't even block people...they are totally
freakin lost...who the Hell do you hold responsible...the trainer?????? It
is all on Schott, and Rex needs to kick some ass....the D held it as close
as they can...still some rough times, no great pass rush but it did get
better at times...but this is so freakin bad...Did any of you see Mason's
interview...an "outsider" with an objective view sees it apparently. The O
line coach has to know this is bad...I'm guessing this is coming from a
scheme that changes constantly...no system...I saw crap that would not
happen in high school...threat inside..you MUST acknowledge it...Rules
Always in Use...."On, Shade, Gap inside...take him".....they are wandering
around not knowing who the Hell to block !
Statute Of Limitations
Oct 3, 2011, 1:17:58 AM10/3/11
to
In article <ui5i87tdhpml29hd5...@4ax.com>
Angeles, California who wouldn't mind seeing that happen.
> On the D side, we're having the exact same problems as last season, a lack of
> pass-coverage, in the middle of the field... and a weak pass-rush.
>
abilities and playing styles don't compliment each other. It
looks like mercenaries in cleats out there.
> It often looks like opposing defenses are in the huddle. They decided to stand-pat with
> the same OC, and again, they got what would be expected. He has no clue how to adjust
> to what defenses throw at him.
Sure he does, but his starting quarterback is not savvy enough
to make the right adjustments at the line and after the snap.
He plays like a high school scrambler and he's had some luck
here and there, but...
Ad hoc luck eventually runs out and the Peter Principle takes
over. That is where Sanchez is and his peers know it.
Apparently the head coach can't figure it out.
> This is on management for going for imaginary players (Aso), & ignoring weaknesses they
> needed to address.
Why are the Jets giving LT a welfare check?
buRford <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote:
>
> Very simply, they chose to go with what they had, rather than trying to improve the OL.
> We all knew they had a problem at RT, and a big lack of depth.
> So, once we lost Robert Turner, then Mangold, we've gotten exactly what would've been
> expected.
> And in the process, they're gonna get Sanchez killed.
There's some dads with raped daughters in Mission Viejo and Los
>
> Very simply, they chose to go with what they had, rather than trying to improve the OL.
> We all knew they had a problem at RT, and a big lack of depth.
> So, once we lost Robert Turner, then Mangold, we've gotten exactly what would've been
> expected.
> And in the process, they're gonna get Sanchez killed.
Angeles, California who wouldn't mind seeing that happen.
> On the D side, we're having the exact same problems as last season, a lack of
> pass-coverage, in the middle of the field... and a weak pass-rush.
>
> And lastly, they have an offense that is totally predictable.
They have a hodge-podge of decent offensive players whose
abilities and playing styles don't compliment each other. It
looks like mercenaries in cleats out there.
> It often looks like opposing defenses are in the huddle. They decided to stand-pat with
> the same OC, and again, they got what would be expected. He has no clue how to adjust
> to what defenses throw at him.
to make the right adjustments at the line and after the snap.
He plays like a high school scrambler and he's had some luck
here and there, but...
Ad hoc luck eventually runs out and the Peter Principle takes
over. That is where Sanchez is and his peers know it.
Apparently the head coach can't figure it out.
> This is on management for going for imaginary players (Aso), & ignoring weaknesses they
> needed to address.
DCI
Oct 3, 2011, 2:08:53 AM10/3/11
to
On Oct 2, 10:17 pm, "Statute Of Limitations"
<sol.sanc...@rape.rape.rape.com> wrote:
> In article <ui5i87tdhpml29hd5k459ekc2p71d5j...@4ax.com>
<sol.sanc...@rape.rape.rape.com> wrote:
> In article <ui5i87tdhpml29hd5k459ekc2p71d5j...@4ax.com>
Cut -
>
> Why are the Jets giving LT a welfare check?
>
Isn't that retirement check?
DCI
Message has been deleted
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 3, 2011, 5:34:24 AM10/3/11
to
On Monday, October 3, 2011 1:16:58 AM UTC-4, Papa Carl wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:fd792a63-e73c-4a40...@z19g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 2, 10:42 pm, "Papa Carl"
> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:fd792a63-e73c-4a40...@z19g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 2, 10:42 pm, "Papa Carl"
> > "buRford" <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
Sanchez's passing rating this game was 30.5. But single stats don't say much and passing rating is particularly incomplete and dubious. For starters, if we count his lost fumbles like interceptions -- they are both turnovers, so why not? -- his rating drops all the way to 0.5 (zero.point.five)
And that is the lowest single-game passing rating in the 52-year history of the Jets franchise, for any QB with more than 18 attempts, a full-game performance.
Now I know that some of you think statistics are worthless, prove nothing, and that you can totally disregard them and by subjective impression prove anything.
But really -- any of you who want to dismiss these numbers to claim you "know" this was actually a *good* performance ... well, just forget it as far as I'm concerned. ;-(
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 3, 2011, 6:02:42 AM10/3/11
to bur...@bur.ford.com
On Monday, October 3, 2011 4:47:11 AM UTC-4, buRford wrote:
> >> "buRford" <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
> Rex is not going to do anything about the offense.
> Again during the post-game presser, he wouldn't put any blame on the O, when asked.
> He just said the Ravens played well.
> Rex still, seemingly, doesn't get that the HC is HC of the whole team.
>
> As far as the Safety, even on those fast, short plays, the safeties have trouble in
> pass-coverage. Smith just isn't very good in-coverage.
> It is all scheme with Ryan, but ya obviously need players, too.
>
> Which goes back to management. With the personnel strategy of management, often trading
> picks, there is no room for mistakes with their few top picks.
Yup, and the mistakes have been costly. Trading away draft picks to move up, the odds are always against you. A poor odds move.
But the Jets front office has loved it for years -- assuming they are smarter than the other teams they trade with.
Some of us have been complaining about this for years. Well, at least one of us has. Glad to be not totally alone now. :-)
Now Belichick, he knows he's not smarter than everybody else (he let Brady slip to the 6th round, gave other teams 150 chances to draft him -- how smart was that?) so he stacks the odds in his favor by trading down and always having more of those second round picks than anybody else. That's how he's smarter than anyone else.
> Gholston, Ducasse, Wilson,
> etc, were not good picks (obviously). Wilkerson looks like he may turn out ok. Kendrick
> Ellis hasn't played yet, which is disappointing, being such a high pick... & with how the
> DL has been pushed around in the ground game.
>
> At least McKnight is starting to show some promise. He forced a fumble on STs, & his kick
> return.
> But all-in-all, management has done very little to improve this team, over the past two
> seasons.
>
> And... I don't think I've ever seen a more poorly coached offense.
> As you said, the players too often don't seem to know what to do... not to mention
> everything else we've seen these past 5 (or is it 6) years.
> As an aside, it was amazing to me that we never tried the hurryup, to try to tire the
> Ravens D... not to mention, it's what Sanchez does best.
Yeah, this was exactly the game when we wanted Sanchez to hurry up faster and improvise more. Four awful turnovers, not enough. The Ravens' D would have exhausted itself running more of them back.
> On Mon, 3 Oct 2011 01:16:58 -0400, "Papa Carl"
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:fd792a63-e73c-4a40...@z19g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
> >On Oct 2, 10:42 pm, "Papa Carl"
> wrote:
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:fd792a63-e73c-4a40...@z19g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
> >On Oct 2, 10:42 pm, "Papa Carl"
> >> "buRford" <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
> Again during the post-game presser, he wouldn't put any blame on the O, when asked.
> He just said the Ravens played well.
> Rex still, seemingly, doesn't get that the HC is HC of the whole team.
>
> As far as the Safety, even on those fast, short plays, the safeties have trouble in
> pass-coverage. Smith just isn't very good in-coverage.
> It is all scheme with Ryan, but ya obviously need players, too.
>
> Which goes back to management. With the personnel strategy of management, often trading
> picks, there is no room for mistakes with their few top picks.
Yup, and the mistakes have been costly. Trading away draft picks to move up, the odds are always against you. A poor odds move.
But the Jets front office has loved it for years -- assuming they are smarter than the other teams they trade with.
Some of us have been complaining about this for years. Well, at least one of us has. Glad to be not totally alone now. :-)
Now Belichick, he knows he's not smarter than everybody else (he let Brady slip to the 6th round, gave other teams 150 chances to draft him -- how smart was that?) so he stacks the odds in his favor by trading down and always having more of those second round picks than anybody else. That's how he's smarter than anyone else.
> Gholston, Ducasse, Wilson,
> etc, were not good picks (obviously). Wilkerson looks like he may turn out ok. Kendrick
> Ellis hasn't played yet, which is disappointing, being such a high pick... & with how the
> DL has been pushed around in the ground game.
>
> At least McKnight is starting to show some promise. He forced a fumble on STs, & his kick
> return.
> But all-in-all, management has done very little to improve this team, over the past two
> seasons.
>
> And... I don't think I've ever seen a more poorly coached offense.
> As you said, the players too often don't seem to know what to do... not to mention
> everything else we've seen these past 5 (or is it 6) years.
> As an aside, it was amazing to me that we never tried the hurryup, to try to tire the
> Ravens D... not to mention, it's what Sanchez does best.
Yeah, this was exactly the game when we wanted Sanchez to hurry up faster and improvise more. Four awful turnovers, not enough. The Ravens' D would have exhausted itself running more of them back.
John C TX
Oct 3, 2011, 10:04:38 AM10/3/11
to
On Oct 2, 9:42 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "buRford" <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
The OL comments are fair. Someone, take your pick Callahan, Schot or
Ryan, totally overestimated Hunter's abilities. Slausson is average w/
Mangold & bad with a rookie. Somone decided like they did the year
prior with Slauson that he could contribute.
The defense played well. The did pressure Flacco and although they
only had two sacks they hit him over & over again. I am not sure how
much coverage issues we had as Flacco completed 10. passes.
Ryan has his work cut out for him. OL issues magnify all of Sanchez
shortcomings.
> "buRford" <buRf...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
Ryan, totally overestimated Hunter's abilities. Slausson is average w/
Mangold & bad with a rookie. Somone decided like they did the year
prior with Slauson that he could contribute.
The defense played well. The did pressure Flacco and although they
only had two sacks they hit him over & over again. I am not sure how
much coverage issues we had as Flacco completed 10. passes.
Ryan has his work cut out for him. OL issues magnify all of Sanchez
shortcomings.
Percy Flage
Oct 3, 2011, 10:26:47 AM10/3/11
to
>> DL has been pushed around in the ground game.
>>
>> return.
>> But all-in-all, management has done very little to improve this team, over the past two
>> seasons.
>>
>> And... I don't think I've ever seen a more poorly coached offense.
>> As you said, the players too often don't seem to know what to do... not to mention
>> everything else we've seen these past 5 (or is it 6) years.
>> As an aside, it was amazing to me that we never tried the hurryup, to try to tire the
>> Ravens D... not to mention, it's what Sanchez does best.
>
> Yeah, this was exactly the game when we wanted Sanchez to hurry up faster and improvise more. Four awful turnovers, not enough. The Ravens' D would have exhausted itself running more of them back.
I don't know about you guys, but at one point I was thinking, c'mon guys
let's change it up. 1st and 10? First play of a drive? Smart thing was
to punt the fucker!
--
Percy Flage
"Life is too short to have to explain everyday."
Papa Carl
Oct 3, 2011, 10:42:34 AM10/3/11
to
<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:17849232.133.1317634464557.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqbu18...
I can't get you at all.....I said statistics mean nothing in this game....we
all know how horrible Sanchez was...he is terrible, and I've said that
before. He had his chance. But there are no stats for all the blown O line
calls, not recognizing where they threat is coming from, and looking flat
out like a poorly coached high school team. We quite agree Sanchez is not a
good QB...but Tom Brady would have been lousy with what was going on...not
as bad as Sanchez because he would have thrown it into the front row
probably. But it would not have been completions. They can talk all they
want about injuries, but Brick even blew calls...not being a tough player
has nothing to do with not knowing what the Hell to do...that was bizarre.
Nobody is dismissing your numbers...that are right...but don't try to say
they dismiss the lack of preparation on the part of the coaching
staff...that is where you go off the track. Whenever an entire group of
players look this off...it MUST fall back on who prepared them. That goes
to the entire mess I would say, and management for not recognizing they did
not have the foundation they need to build a team. Why were they out
chasing Plaxico and Mason? Did they think that was going to fix Sanchez????
Did they think having those receivers would fix a weak getting weaker O
line? They went into the season with guys who needed time to learn how to
play together, didn't have much camp, added a bunch of new faces and then
lost a couple to injury...all poor planning that goes back a couple of
years. Where the Hell is the ground and pound.???? Not there...and I'm not
saying keeping TJ would have worked over a long haul, but it would have been
better for one year and develop his replacement.
How about a stat for how many blown line calls there were? How many
unrecognized immediate threats from the inside let go by linemen?
Papa Carl
Oct 3, 2011, 10:44:13 AM10/3/11
to
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5c1706ff-1dd6-402d...@z12g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
Sanchez is done...done...he looked like a scared kid...will not recover.
OMHO...time to start the whole thing over for QB...starting with building a
foundation in the O line.
Michael
Oct 3, 2011, 11:51:54 AM10/3/11
to
On Oct 3, 10:44 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:5c1706ff-1dd6-402d...@z12g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
> foundation in the O line.- Hide quoted text -
undrafted rookie center and wayne hunter, i'd look like a scared kid
too. if i saw ducasse in front of me, i'd straight up shit my pants.
the line is a piece of shit. management bet on hunter and ducasse and
they crapped out. as a matter of fact, ducasse's horrendous play was
an instrumentl part in getting robert turner put on IR.
you were exactly just right... the chickens are home to roost.
i hear them in the coop.
BOCK BOCK BOCK BOCK.
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:5c1706ff-1dd6-402d...@z12g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
if the only things standing between me, ngata and suggs were an
> - Show quoted text -
undrafted rookie center and wayne hunter, i'd look like a scared kid
too. if i saw ducasse in front of me, i'd straight up shit my pants.
the line is a piece of shit. management bet on hunter and ducasse and
they crapped out. as a matter of fact, ducasse's horrendous play was
an instrumentl part in getting robert turner put on IR.
you were exactly just right... the chickens are home to roost.
i hear them in the coop.
BOCK BOCK BOCK BOCK.
Papa Carl
Oct 3, 2011, 7:34:38 PM10/3/11
to
news:e7706832-cf3f-4d8a...@j31g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
_______________________________________________________________________________
I am actually furious now...I recorded the game, watched it over and
over...and Rex is a super prick to blame any of this on the kid at
center...a real prick....that kid did not do anything to lose this
game...was he responsible for not seeing a blitz threat from the outside?
AND...he did not snap the ball high or whatver they claimed..it was
fine...Rex has been exposed...he's a D coordinator...has not clue what is
happening with the O...and he really wants to be in Baltimore....he needs to
come on TV...and make a huge apology to Baxter...Brick was worse than that
kid was...the entire O line sucks...and beyond not just being physically
good...they don't know what the Hell they are doing ! The chickens have
come home to roost...and they shit all over Rex and company.
I am actually furious now...I recorded the game, watched it over and
over...and Rex is a super prick to blame any of this on the kid at
center...a real prick....that kid did not do anything to lose this
game...was he responsible for not seeing a blitz threat from the outside?
AND...he did not snap the ball high or whatver they claimed..it was
fine...Rex has been exposed...he's a D coordinator...has not clue what is
happening with the O...and he really wants to be in Baltimore....he needs to
come on TV...and make a huge apology to Baxter...Brick was worse than that
kid was...the entire O line sucks...and beyond not just being physically
good...they don't know what the Hell they are doing ! The chickens have
come home to roost...and they shit all over Rex and company.
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