Re: Greene's TD
Michael
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> One of the Pats' fans pointed out to me that the Pats loaded the D
> line for this play. There appears to be 6 down & 2 more up on the
> line. Did BB give us the TD?
>
> 1:46 to go, 2nd & 6 & the Pats have one time out. If we don't score we
> run the play & they call TO. It is now maybe 1:42 3rd & whatever.
> So we run it again & it is now 4th & whatever but the time is now
> 1:12. Maybe we have a 1st down and the game is over. Best case is
> the Pats have the ball with 1 min & no TO's.
>
> This only became a thought after someone pointed out the defense and
> when Ryan admitted Greene should have fallen down at the 1 yard line
> or before scoring and that they hadn't coached him to do that.
>
> http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011011600/2010/POST19/jets@patriots/wa...
jones drew knew what to do against us last year, but green was too hot
to trot. if the pats recovered that on-side, they might have scored
Michael
> surrounding Cro's run back no one thought about it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
that green td was the only point in the game that i got ticked off...
i was thinking "why !?" i was waiting for the shoe to drop right up
until smith coved the on-side.
Tutor
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> One of the Pats' fans pointed out to me that the Pats loaded the D
> line for this play. There appears to be 6 down & 2 more up on the
> line. Did BB give us the TD?
>
> 1:46 to go, 2nd & 6 & the Pats have one time out. If we don't score we
> run the play & they call TO. It is now maybe 1:42 3rd & whatever.
> So we run it again & it is now 4th & whatever but the time is now
> 1:12. Maybe we have a 1st down and the game is over. Best case is
> the Pats have the ball with 1 min & no TO's.
>
> This only became a thought after someone pointed out the defense and
> when Ryan admitted Greene should have fallen down at the 1 yard line
> or before scoring and that they hadn't coached him to do that.
>
> http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011011600/2010/POST19/jets@patriots/wa...
maybe, but Mayo was on top of him and Greene still swatted mayo away
like a mosquito. :)
Michael
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:42:12 -0800 (PST), John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> >One of the Pats' fans pointed out to me that the Pats loaded the D
> >line for this play. There appears to be 6 down & 2 more up on the
> >line. Did BB give us the TD?
>
> The Jets weren't going to pass, so of course, they stacked the box.
> Watch the corner shoot in, & get picked up by Richardson. And Mayo change direction. Or
> Woolfork dive at Greene.
> Watch the Pats linemen before the snap, planting their feet, and shifting for a better
> angle.
> They don't look like possums to me ;)
>
>
>
>
>
> >1:46 to go, 2nd & 6 & the Pats have one time out. If we don't score we
> >run the play & they call TO. It is now maybe 1:42 3rd & whatever.
> >So we run it again & it is now 4th & whatever but the time is now
> >1:12. Maybe we have a 1st down and the game is over. Best case is
> >the Pats have the ball with 1 min & no TO's.
>
> >This only became a thought after someone pointed out the defense and
> >when Ryan admitted Greene should have fallen down at the 1 yard line
> >or before scoring and that they hadn't coached him to do that.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
if they were not possums then they were chumps... letting the jets
score gave them a real chance to win. i cant imagine that escaped
them. they let green in.
MZ
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:42:12 -0800 (PST), John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> >One of the Pats' fans pointed out to me that the Pats loaded the D
> >line for this play. There appears to be 6 down & 2 more up on the
> >line. Did BB give us the TD?
>
> Honestly, at that point in the game, how else were the Pats going to play the Jets?
> The Jets weren't going to pass, so of course, they stacked the box.
> Watch the corner shoot in, & get picked up by Richardson. And Mayo change direction. Or
> Woolfork dive at Greene.
> Watch the Pats linemen before the snap, planting their feet, and shifting for a better
> angle.
> They don't look like possums to me ;)
Burf, as I mentioned to john in an email, they didn't stack the box.
They brought out a goal line set. There's a huuuuuuge difference
between them. If a team has 1st and 10 and you know they're going to
run it 3 times, you don't bring out a goalline formation. The point
of a goal line formation is to control the LOS, not to stop the run.
They should have remained in their 3-4 alignment, brought a SS up into
the box, and pressed the corners up and inside on the receivers to try
to take away the slant (no way Sanchez was throwing outside in that
situation -- the Jets don't even do quick outs).
After rewatching it, I'm convinced Schott outsmarted Matt Patricia on
that play. He did this by trotting out a heavy formation and the Pats
fell for it. Belichick should have overridden Patricia. A 4-4 line?
I could see that. But they went with their goalline set -- once
that's blocked correctly, it's a free TD.
Also, the Patriot at the end of the line (Cunningham?) should be
tarred and feathered for not containing the edge. His only damned job
on that play. This wasn't on Mayo.
MZ
Also, as Grinch and a couple of other folks have mentioned so far,
this was another move that may have been desperation on New England's
part. If they were conceding that they couldn't stop the Jets OL from
banging out a first down, then it might make more sense to try to
counter that with a goalline defensive formation. Not sure why they
would make that concession though, since they did a pretty reasonable
job against NY's OL for most of the game, but it might have been panic-
driven. At the end of the day, I consider it the most puzzling call
of the game.
Keith Keller
>
> After rewatching it, I'm convinced Schott outsmarted Matt Patricia on
> that play. He did this by trotting out a heavy formation and the Pats
> fell for it. Belichick should have overridden Patricia. A 4-4 line?
> I could see that. But they went with their goalline set -- once
> that's blocked correctly, it's a free TD.
...but if Belichick wanted the Jets to score a quick TD, and not remind
Schottenheimer and Ryan that simply getting a first down and sitting on
the ball would run out the clock, this would be one way to do it--make
it seem like you're stacking up to stop the run, but do it in a
seemingly foolish way. Certainly you could hope that Ryan, with his
fairly large ego, would fool himself into thinking he outsmarted you,
when in fact you outsmarted him. (Ryan certainly admitted later that
Greene should have gone down before scoring.)
> Also, the Patriot at the end of the line (Cunningham?) should be
> tarred and feathered for not containing the edge. His only damned job
> on that play. This wasn't on Mayo.
Again, if the goal of the defensive alignment is to allow the touchdown,
then he did a perfect job of not containing the edge. Because as was
already posted, allowing the touchdown was the best hope for the
Patriots, because it was the only way to get the ball back.
Obviously this is all hypothetical--Belichick will never admit one way
or the other whether he wanted to allow the Jets quick TD or not. But
you can bet that coaches will be keeping a closer eye on the clock and
timeouts, and will emphasize to players when not scoring and keeping the
ball is the higher priority, and not to be fooled by a seemingly soft
defense. (And when offensive coaches adapt to this, defensive coaches
will adapt by getting their players to go even more for forcing a fumble
if the offense is going to run around and kill time instead of taking it
in for the score.)
--keith
--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
MZ
> (try just my userid to email me)
> AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
> see X- headers for PGP signature information
I don't think that was BB's plan either. Because BB didn't know in
advance that Greene would forget to kneel at the 1. The game was
still winnable at that point. You stop the Jets from making a first
down. That was pretty much a 50/50 proposition at that point.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
news:9dec255c-8aba-4d91...@d1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
Excellent analysis ! Dead on accurate Mark.
Grinch
>
> > On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:42:12 -0800 (PST), John C TX <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> > >One of the Pats' fans pointed out to me that the Pats loaded the D
> > >line for this play. There appears to be 6 down & 2 more up on the
> > >line. Did BB give us the TD?
>
> > Honestly, at that point in the game, how else were the Pats going to play the Jets?
> > The Jets weren't going to pass, so of course, they stacked the box.
> > Watch the corner shoot in, & get picked up by Richardson. And Mayo change direction. Or
> > Woolfork dive at Greene.
> > Watch the Pats linemen before the snap, planting their feet, and shifting for a better
> > angle.
> > They don't look like possums to me ;)
>
> Burf, as I mentioned to john in an email, they didn't stack the box.
> They brought out a goal line set. There's a huuuuuuge difference
> between them. If a team has 1st and 10 and you know they're going to
> run it 3 times, you don't bring out a goalline formation. The point
> of a goal line formation is to control the LOS, not to stop the run.
> They should have remained in their 3-4 alignment, brought a SS up into
> the box, and pressed the corners up and inside on the receivers to try
> to take away the slant (no way Sanchez was throwing outside in that
> situation -- the Jets don't even do quick outs).
>
What? Be careful what you say around here.
Unless you are saying "Schott outsmarted a gerbil" or "Schott
outsmarted a Chia Pet", there are people in these parts who take them
as fighting words!
papa.carl44
What if Cromartie had stayed in bounds...taking a seat so to speak...do you
think they could have milked the clock then?
Keith Keller
>
> "MZ" <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote in message
> news:5084c508-3a7d-48ae...@q8g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>
>> advance that Greene would forget to kneel at the 1. The game was
>> still winnable at that point. You stop the Jets from making a first
>> down. That was pretty much a 50/50 proposition at that point.
I'm not so sure; I'd have to look at the actual numbers. But from
memory, the Jets could have gotten the clock down to less than a
minute, kicked a field goal, then the Pats get the ball back with maybe
40-50 seconds, no timeouts, and needing two scores.
Eh, okay, maybe 50/50 is a good assessment, actually. Is the extra
minute and keeping one timeout worth having to score two touchdowns
instead?
Like I said, we will never know!
> What if Cromartie had stayed in bounds...taking a seat so to speak...do you
> think they could have milked the clock then?
I don't think Cromartie staying in would have made a difference, since the
clock would stop on the change of possession. Now, if he'd fallen on
the ball instead of running it, it leaves a little bit more time on the
clock, and the Jets are further back, that it makes no sense to allow
a TD--get a stop, force a punt, and you need one TD with 40-50
seconds.
--keith
--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
papa.carl44
"Grinch" <oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:c047d384-0cde-4298...@y19g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Grinch, What is the difference between you acting like that...total sarcasm
and trying to stir something up and a troll? I like a lot of your stuff,
you make some great points when you stick to facts. This has nothing to do
with any facts and is just to get something going here, and possibly drive
away some more regulars. I just don't think that is a smart idea. If you
want to say you feel like Schott is the best ever or anything you
want...that's fine. But nobody here was criticizing him (Schott) so why do
you feel obliged to get into this? I guess you will enjoy it when this
group is nothing but whack jobs calling each other names? I hope not. Why
don't we all try to let folks have their opinions and respect it and each
other?
Harlan Lachman
<4314d0ba-ea3b-4d0f...@o23g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
John C TX <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> One of the Pats' fans pointed out to me that the Pats loaded the D
> line for this play. There appears to be 6 down & 2 more up on the
> line. Did BB give us the TD?
>
> 1:46 to go, 2nd & 6 & the Pats have one time out. If we don't score we
> run the play & they call TO. It is now maybe 1:42 3rd & whatever.
> So we run it again & it is now 4th & whatever but the time is now
> 1:12. Maybe we have a 1st down and the game is over. Best case is
> the Pats have the ball with 1 min & no TO's.
>
> This only became a thought after someone pointed out the defense and
> when Ryan admitted Greene should have fallen down at the 1 yard line
> or before scoring and that they hadn't coached him to do that.
>
> http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011011600/2010/POST19/jets@patriots/watch#watch
John, its late and I am tired. But if Greene had gone down at the one,
would that allowed us to call a victory formation and not give the Pats
the ball back.
I would have been less than 1:40 to go and no times out. Doesn' that do
it.
If so, shouldn't coaches announce time to go down -- without celebrating
-- once the first down is made?
h
Keith Keller
>
> John, its late and I am tired. But if Greene had gone down at the one,
> would that allowed us to call a victory formation and not give the Pats
> the ball back.
>
> I would have been less than 1:40 to go and no times out. Doesn' that do
> it.
Pretty much. Figure 30 seconds per play with no timeouts, should be
trivial to kill off the clock.
> If so, shouldn't coaches announce time to go down -- without celebrating
> -- once the first down is made?
Absolutely. We'll probably see The Chart (TM) like coaches have a chart
showing when to go for a two-point conversion--it'll be when to tell
your players to go down instead of scoring. Andy Reid will immediately
screw up using it.