Rex Is the Linchpin
JetsLife
off-the-field "indiscretions", "transgressions", "bumps in the road"
-- it's a synonym fest these days with Eldrick leading the charge.
I think the Jets add these wild boys because Rex is a wild boy too --
but in the best of ways. He's a man's man, straight shooting leader.
He is large and in charge, yet he cares. He supports his players
personally, supporting them on and off the field. He tells like it
is, keeps it simple as Faneca e-mailed to Cimini, so whoever comes in
they just mesh. If they don't -- they hit the Kerry Rhodes.
In Rex We Trust.
MZ
I think you're right. I think Rex's personality can make these things
work. I also think he's had some experience on his last team dealing
with some guys who aren't exactly choir boys. The attitude in Baltimore
is fierce but still professional. They really have an excellent program
there, IMO.
Michael
I love Rex as the Jets coach and think getting him has been the best
thing for the Jets since Sonny Werblin... Still... Rex is the kind of
fellow that will come up short or in a bad spot once in a while as a
result of his moxy and attitude "writing checks that his body cant
cash". As football smart as he is, he cant win 'em all. We were
supposed to have a star in Gholson by his statement, and we dont have
it yet. Sure, Rex is great with players and can handle guys that
other coaches cant, but he cant fix 'em all. I think they bit off
more than they can chew with all the problem cases at one time,
especially Santonio.
Glenn Greenstein
I really don't get what it is about SH that scares the crap out of
you. What is he going to do? Shoot Fireman Ed? Give Joe Namath a
bottle of Glenlivet?
Ritchie
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SH doesn't scare me, I just don't think it was a wise move to bring
him here. He is just your basic POS. I believe the mixture of SH and
NYC life is just an explosion waiting to happen. A tiger never changes
his stripes!
MZ
Except when they do. There are tons and tons of players who have been
malcontents or even criminals, then they grew up (sometimes changed
teams) and became model citizens. Your world view lumps too many people
into the same pot.
Tutor
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Huge talent. Screwed up head for sure. Low 5th round choice. I
guess you would rather have the low 5th rounder, huh? Maybe this will
help you and Michael-
a list of the Jets 5th rounders since Bill Parcells was coach in 1997:
Erik Ainge
Jason Pociask
Andre Maddox
Erik Coleman
Matt Walters
Windrell Hayes
Jermaine Jones
Casey Dailey
Doug Karczewski
Blake Spence
Eric Bateman
Lamont Burns
Raymond Austin
Gee, what are the Jets thinking, trading away that 5th round choice (I
think 24th in round 5) for Santonio Holmes? Somebody fire Tannenbaum
right now! LOL!
Michael
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never mind what it cost as far as draft picks.. what did it cost in
the way of team reputation and identity ??? you wanna be the junk yard
jets ??? i dont want to route for criminals.
Johnny Morongo
Well then, maybe you could try rooting for them, John.
Glenn Greenstein
Maybe ping pong is more your speed Michael.
Tutor
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No one said you had to. But it just may be the best trade Tanny has
ever made.
Michael
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not with criminals and scum bags it isnt... if you think all the
players in the nfl are violent, drug users, stupid and criminal you
might be a tad bit ignorant on the matter
Ritchie
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Rarely happens though, very rarely.
Glenn Greenstein
Michael. let me ask you this. Have you ever gotten into a fight with
another person? How about a woman for example. I know this sounds
stereotypical but in my experience a woman is more willing to punch a
guy than another man if you piss her off. I say this because it has
happened to me more than once and they don't hit you once, you get
hit, kicked, scratched 3 or 4 times before you know you are even in a
fight. I would bet anything that the woman that Holmes threw the glass
at became extremely abusive before it got to that point.
Now here is my point, you don't know the facts, neither do I for that
matter but you are calling him a violent drug user and a stupid
criminal. You also are not considering what kind of person you have to
be to be an NFL player. You have to have violence in you to be
successful and sometime a person can unwittingly bring that out by
slapping them or telling them there mother was a whore. That doesn't
make you a criminal, and for that matter non of the players the Jets
have brought in are criminals, stupid and immature maybe but not
criminals. Get over your self righteousness and holyier than thee
attitude.
Tutor
> stereotypical but in my experience a woman is more willing to punch a
> guy than another man if you piss her off. I say this because it has
> happened to me more than once and they don't hit you once, you get
> hit, kicked, scratched 3 or 4 times before you know you are even in a
> fight.
oooooh, a glimpse into Glenn's bedroom antics maybe? :)
Glenn Greenstein
Not the bedroom, jut the bars.
Tutor
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:) shhhhh! Michael will hear you.
MZ
Happens all the time! There really aren't very many Pac Mans in the
league. But hard-working players with rap sheets from their youth
litter the entire NFL.
Glenn Greenstein
Heh, and here I was thinking I set you up for a boxing joke :)
Michael
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Glenn.. I have not been involved in any fights since high school. And
in high school, it was just a couple of knuckle heads dukin' it up
after the bell. No serious aggravated battery or anything like that.
I find that people who get into fights or wind up in front of an
abusive woman regularly at adults age have little common sense and do
not understand that they are often the ones that are being
provocateurs. Aggressive behavior, control issues, personality
defects. Trouble finds trouble. As for the drugs. I have said time
and time again... I think pot should be legalized to remove the
criminal element. Until then, pot is bad because it is against the
law. Uncle Sam gets cut out and dirt bags line their pockets. It is
taking advantage of every man/woman that pays taxes.
Michael
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I also wanted to respond to your commentary as far as what it takes to
be a football player in the NFL. No, Glenn... You don't have to be
violent or aggressive. That is kind of a silly characterization. If
you think football is violence, you are ignorant. Not even the most
vicious hitting in football is violence. It is physical, but not
violence. Violence is when a person breaks the rules and used
physical force or physical intimidation to overwhelm another person in
order to get something from them. The victim is not expecting it, nor
have they agreed to participate. In Football, everyone has agreed to
it and expects it. You don't have to be the kind of person that wants
to victimize unsuspecting non participants to knock the shit out of a
qb or wr that also agrees to hit and be hit by the rules on a playing
field. That is not crime or violence. Not even close. You don't need
a criminal mind or a hose of personality defects to be a mad man on
the football field.
MZ
You're rewriting the definition of violence to suit your agenda. Try
doing what David Harris does, only do it in your office. See what happens.
Michael
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I just kicked a hole in the wall... Happy ???
Johnctx
Football is a boxing match. It is absolutely violence.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/violence
Main Entry: vi·o·lence
Pronunciation: \ˈvī-lən(t)s, ˈvī-ə-\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 a : exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse (as in warfare
effecting illegal entry into a house) b : an instance of violent
treatment or procedure
2 : injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : outrage
3 a : intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or
force <the violence of the storm> b : vehement feeling or expression :
fervor; also : an instance of such action or feeling c : a clashing or
jarring quality : discordance
4 : undue alteration (as of wording or sense in editing a text)
Glenn Greenstein
IMO you are confusing violence with intimidation.
Glenn Greenstein
Michael, please not there is no mention of physical intimidation,
unsuspecting victims, or breaking rules in any of the definitions
listed here.
I can't think of a better way to describe football other than
controlled violence and by controlled I mean there are rules and a
framework you have to remain within. Go watch Ronnie Lott playing in
his prime and tell me the hits were not violent. Dead lifting 500 lbs
is physical, hitting a RB and driving him to the ground, that is
violent.
Michael
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there is intimidation in football. there is also intimidation in
business... intimidation can be a component of violence, but
intimidation on the playing fied is not violence
Michael
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ok, teddy atlas and mangini :-)
football is not boxing. boxing is not violence. boxing is brutal
and physical, but it is not violence. if a boxer went into the
audience and hit a spectator it would be violence. if a spectator
threw a bottle at a boxer in the ring it would be violence. what is
legal and expected in a sport is not what is legal and expected
outside the sport. you DO NOT need to be a person that CAN NOT make
that distinction in order to box or play football. i'm using this as
an example because it has been in the popular media... the most
regularly physical play in a football game is on the line. the most
power and the most guranateed contact. on every play. do you think
michael oher is a good football player ??? do you think he's a violent
person ??? of course he is a good football player and non violent.
would you say that the jets marty lyons is a violent person ??? i dont
get why people always figure that football players or other sporting
types have a built in violent complex. what a player that does
violence DID NOT have were people/parents/coaches to teach them
properly. just a screwed up system that let them slide so long as
they help the team win. you dont have to be lawless animal to play
ball and excuses should not be made for guys that make trouble all the
time.
Johnctx
I will just let this stand. When I write the coffee table book "Crazy
Quotes by Michael" it will be # 2 after you wrote how Napoleon beat the
Russians.
>
if a boxer went into the
> audience and hit a spectator it would be violence. if a spectator
> threw a bottle at a boxer in the ring it would be violence. what is
> legal and expected in a sport is not what is legal and expected
> outside the sport. you DO NOT need to be a person that CAN NOT make
> that distinction in order to box or play football. i'm using this as
> an example because it has been in the popular media... the most
> regularly physical play in a football game is on the line. the most
> power and the most guranateed contact. on every play. do you think
> michael oher is a good football player ??? do you think he's a violent
> person ??? of course he is a good football player and non violent.
> would you say that the jets marty lyons is a violent person ??? i dont
> get why people always figure that football players or other sporting
> types have a built in violent complex. what a player that does
> violence DID NOT have were people/parents/coaches to teach them
> properly. just a screwed up system that let them slide so long as
> they help the team win. you dont have to be lawless animal to play
> ball and excuses should not be made for guys that make trouble all the
> time.
Michael, you are flying down an alley 100 MPH by yourself.
If you play football you generally are a violent person unless of course
you are Adam Vinatierri or Vernon Gholston. You probably aren't a law
breaker but what you do on the field requires violence. Watch what
Braylon Edwards does when he blocks, what a boxer does, what a rugby
player, or a wrestler does. You can call it contact but when you throw
your body into another human being when running full blast it isn''t
called the waltz.
MZ
Rules and laws don't make violence violence. That's what rules and laws
were meant to prevent in the first place. IOW, "violence" pre-existed
the rules governing violence. In the case of football, violence is
permitted for the sake of sport. As you even acknowledge, it's an
identical action -- the difference is that one isn't prosecuted whereas
the other is. And that's important here. The players are paid to
perform the same actions that, in another arena, they would get in
trouble for. It's the external environment that's different, not the
action. So I think it's well within their ability and tendencies to
commit violence in the wrong arena.
Michael
my coffee table history book will include john c's account of how the
spencer would have saved thousands if only it was not rejected by the
army.
> called the waltz.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
john.. there are violent people in all sports... there are violent
people that dont play any sports. there are non violent people that
box and play football. bruce smith said he liked football becayse "he
could really kick the shit out of somone and not get arrested".
michael strahan said he never played angry... he always played focused
with a professional mindset. here you have one guy expressing an
understanding of what is legal and what was not. then you have
another guy expressing a non violent mind set while on the field.
while bruce smith's statement sounds like that of a vioent man, it
also sounds like the statement of a man that knows play from
violence.
for the sake of getting past semantics, lets remove the word
"violence" where ever I have written it and substitute it with
"criminal violence". And past that I'll say for sure... You dont have
to be a violent criminal to play football and football as an
occupation or as a sport is not any reason to make excuses for a
football player to take up criminal violence. for every knuckle head
ball player in the nfl or college that pops off, there are hundreds...
thousands that dont.
Michael
mark... is football now or was it ever an activity where unwilling and
unknowing participants were preyed on by others ??? do they allow
guns on the fied ??? can the physical contact continue after the
whistle ??? would you get the win if you strangle the QB ??? if you
want a bigger contract, can you use force on another guy in the locker
room and take his necklace, ring or wallet ??? Are there doctors ready
on the field in case of injury ??? Do they have security at games ???
Cameras ??? Football is not violence. If you dont like what I define
as violence, than say it is not criminal violence. Not in it's spirit
and not in physical practice. Get rid of the reffs, spectators,
cameras, doctors, allow weapons and let several guys go after one guy
for money, mallice, revenge or social prestige and it will a violent
sport.
> you DO NOT need to be a person that CAN NOT make
>
>
>
> > that distinction in order to box or play football. i'm using this as
> > an example because it has been in the popular media... the most
> > regularly physical play in a football game is on the line. the most
> > power and the most guranateed contact. on every play. do you think
> > michael oher is a good football player ??? do you think he's a violent
> > person ??? of course he is a good football player and non violent.
> > would you say that the jets marty lyons is a violent person ??? i dont
> > get why people always figure that football players or other sporting
> > types have a built in violent complex. what a player that does
> > violence DID NOT have were people/parents/coaches to teach them
> > properly. just a screwed up system that let them slide so long as
> > they help the team win. you dont have to be lawless animal to play
> > ball and excuses should not be made for guys that make trouble all the
> > time.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
MZ
Michael, your qualifiers don't change things. If two guys in a bar
agree to go outside and duke it out, is it no longer "violence"? Would
you not consider someone who makes a habit of doing that a "violent" person?
> If you dont like what I define
> as violence, than say it is not criminal violence. Not in it's spirit
> and not in physical practice. Get rid of the reffs, spectators,
> cameras, doctors, allow weapons and let several guys go after one guy
> for money, mallice, revenge or social prestige and it will a violent
> sport.
The "criminal" aspect of it only describes whether or not politicans
have deemed it to be illegal. It doesn't change anything about the
activity. I think the point that people are making here is that it's a
violent sport and so it's not a reach to think that some of these
players may have the propensity to engage in violence off the football
field too. Probably more often than your average pencil pusher who gets
a hangnail making photocopies.
Glenn Greenstein
>
> read more »
Michael, it's becoming obvious you speak a different language than the
rest of us. Violence is not defined as a criminal act in most peoples
minds, it just is part of a criminal act but is is also possible to
commit a criminal act without violence. How many people were injured
by violence in the Enron crimes?
Michael
Mark... Do you understand that there is a difference between a contest
and an assault ???
> > If you dont like what I define
> > as violence, than say it is not criminal violence. Not in it's spirit
> > and not in physical practice. Get rid of the reffs, spectators,
> > cameras, doctors, allow weapons and let several guys go after one guy
> > for money, mallice, revenge or social prestige and it will a violent
> > sport.
>
> The "criminal" aspect of it only describes whether or not politicans
> have deemed it to be illegal. It doesn't change anything about the
> activity. I think the point that people are making here is that it's a
> violent sport and so it's not a reach to think that some of these
> players may have the propensity to engage in violence off the football
> field too. Probably more often than your average pencil pusher who gets
> a hangnail making photocopies.
Yep... And it is just fine if ball players do criminal violence.
We'll let it slide cause that is their nature. Who cares... Lets get
'em on the team. Ball players are all animals anyway. The more
violent the better. Like Paul Crewe said in the Longest Yard. "You
got any with five stars"
Glenn Greenstein
But you define violence as intimidation.
Michael
<SNIP>
> Michael, it's becoming obvious you speak a different language than the
> rest of us.
yes...
MZ
> On Apr 14, 3:28 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> Michael, your qualifiers don't change things. If two guys in a bar
>> agree to go outside and duke it out, is it no longer "violence"? Would
>> you not consider someone who makes a habit of doing that a "violent" person?
>
> Mark... Do you understand that there is a difference between a contest
> and an assault ???
So what's a bar fight? A contest or an assault?
>>> If you dont like what I define
>>> as violence, than say it is not criminal violence. Not in it's spirit
>>> and not in physical practice. Get rid of the reffs, spectators,
>>> cameras, doctors, allow weapons and let several guys go after one guy
>>> for money, mallice, revenge or social prestige and it will a violent
>>> sport.
>> The "criminal" aspect of it only describes whether or not politicans
>> have deemed it to be illegal. It doesn't change anything about the
>> activity. I think the point that people are making here is that it's a
>> violent sport and so it's not a reach to think that some of these
>> players may have the propensity to engage in violence off the football
>> field too. Probably more often than your average pencil pusher who gets
>> a hangnail making photocopies.
>
> Yep... And it is just fine if ball players do criminal violence.
> We'll let it slide cause that is their nature. Who cares... Lets get
> 'em on the team. Ball players are all animals anyway. The more
> violent the better. Like Paul Crewe said in the Longest Yard. "You
> got any with five stars"
If someone does their time, I have no problem with employers allowing
them back to work. That's what the rules say. If you don't like it,
then your problem is with the NFL rules committee, not the New York Jets.
Michael
> Michael wrote:
> > On Apr 14, 3:28 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
> >> Michael, your qualifiers don't change things. If two guys in a bar
> >> agree to go outside and duke it out, is it no longer "violence"? Would
> >> you not consider someone who makes a habit of doing that a "violent" person?
>
> > Mark... Do you understand that there is a difference between a contest
> > and an assault ???
>
> So what's a bar fight? A contest or an assault?
A contest and a game that does not have to take place. A fight
requires two willing participants. I would never lose a fight because
I would not get involved in one. If a guy in a bar challanged me, I'd
leave. If he struk me, it would not have just lost a fight. I would
have just been assaulted. Criminals employ professional violence.
They dont say "put up your dukes". They dont want to "fight" you.
They want to subdue you as unfairly as is possible.
> >>> If you dont like what I define
> >>> as violence, than say it is not criminal violence. Not in it's spirit
> >>> and not in physical practice. Get rid of the reffs, spectators,
> >>> cameras, doctors, allow weapons and let several guys go after one guy
> >>> for money, mallice, revenge or social prestige and it will a violent
> >>> sport.
> >> The "criminal" aspect of it only describes whether or not politicans
> >> have deemed it to be illegal. It doesn't change anything about the
> >> activity. I think the point that people are making here is that it's a
> >> violent sport and so it's not a reach to think that some of these
> >> players may have the propensity to engage in violence off the football
> >> field too. Probably more often than your average pencil pusher who gets
> >> a hangnail making photocopies.
>
> > Yep... And it is just fine if ball players do criminal violence.
> > We'll let it slide cause that is their nature. Who cares... Lets get
> > 'em on the team. Ball players are all animals anyway. The more
> > violent the better. Like Paul Crewe said in the Longest Yard. "You
> > got any with five stars"
>
> If someone does their time, I have no problem with employers allowing
> them back to work. That's what the rules say. If you don't like it,
> then your problem is with the NFL rules committee, not the New York Jets.- Hide quoted text -
Mark... I agree. If you do your time, you can come to work. If
you fuck up and continue to fuck up it is understandable that an
employer passes on a destructive influence.
MZ
> On Apr 14, 3:57 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>> On Apr 14, 3:28 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>>>> Michael, your qualifiers don't change things. If two guys in a bar
>>>> agree to go outside and duke it out, is it no longer "violence"? Would
>>>> you not consider someone who makes a habit of doing that a "violent" person?
>>> Mark... Do you understand that there is a difference between a contest
>>> and an assault ???
>> So what's a bar fight? A contest or an assault?
>
> A contest and a game that does not have to take place. A fight
> requires two willing participants. I would never lose a fight because
> I would not get involved in one. If a guy in a bar challanged me, I'd
> leave. If he struk me, it would not have just lost a fight. I would
> have just been assaulted. Criminals employ professional violence.
> They dont say "put up your dukes". They dont want to "fight" you.
> They want to subdue you as unfairly as is possible.
So bar fights, with two willing participants, aren't criminal? It's not
illegal? Cops don't arrest the participants?
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
yes, it is illegal... arrests are made, and some times they are not.
unless there is serious injury, two participants in a bar fight never
see the inside of a court room. if one of the idiots gets out of hand
and continues to beat the piss out of the other who is no longer an
active participant, then agrivated battery charges are the usual
result.
Glenn Greenstein
You know Michael, you are speaking out if both sides of your mouth. In
one post it's a contest between to willing participants and in the
next it's an illegal act.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
not every contest with willing participants are legal. lots of them
arent. two drug dealers trying to out sell the other is an ulawful
contest. some contests with unwilling participants are not always
illegal. two gladiators circa first century ad are two unwilling
contestants that are legaly trying to kill each other.
JetsLife
> JetsLife wrote:
> > Pre Rexosaurus I wonder if WoodyBaum add players with such litanies of
> > off-the-field "indiscretions", "transgressions", "bumps in the road"
> > -- it's a synonym fest these days with Eldrick leading the charge.
>
> > I think the Jets add these wild boys because Rex is a wild boy too --
> > but in the best of ways. He's a man's man, straight shooting leader.
> > He is large and in charge, yet he cares. He supports his players
> > personally, supporting them on and off the field. He tells like it
> > is, keeps it simple as Faneca e-mailed to Cimini, so whoever comes in
> > they just mesh. If they don't -- they hit the Kerry Rhodes.
>
> > In Rex We Trust.
>
> I think you're right. I think Rex's personality can make these things
> work. I also think he's had some experience on his last team dealing
> with some guys who aren't exactly choir boys. The attitude in Baltimore
> is fierce but still professional. They really have an excellent program
> there, IMO.
Hope I'm right, knock on wood. It's just Rex is a TRUE coach -- a
confident capable leader yet looks out for his own, as if they were
his own. It's how he's constructed.
And I totally agree with your Baltimore assessment. They do have a
great program down there. I think the Jets proved last year we have
something going on too.
In essence, this is why Rex is a great leader: he makes no bones about
blasting the competition.