WOW...the OC saw the light !
papa.carl44
meeting with the OC and how the OC stated some of it was his fault. No
multiple motion and set changes, no weird plays, basic running attack
established, utilized Sanchez's mobility, let the kid get set up so he could
see the defense...amazing stuff and great win.
Michael
wrote:
yep... and wanna bet this was offensive management by "suggestion"
this time ??? schotty sat in the corner with a dunce cap on while
cavenaug, rex and callahan drew this up... bet on it
papa.carl44
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:be3c9625-58db-4600...@37g2000prx.googlegroups.com...
X-No-Archive: Yes
Agreed.
He also mentioned that they had too much on Sanchez plate for a green
QB. PC I saw at least twice, with a limited view, where Sanchez
missed wide opened players. It may be the coaching -- making it
simple --but he is still locking on to one receiver. The plus is he
put the ball where they were not going to pick it off.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Well...what I saw was a situation where the QB and receiver are not on the
same page, thos guys were open buy moving and making a "play"....too often
Sanchez throws out and the receiver goes in or some similar situation....I
would still like to see him have a real QB coach, one who has shown a track
record of developing a good QB from the start....that is not going to happen
though, I can't see any of the really good ones around coming to The Jets.
He was put into too many situations too soon, and I still contend that the
design of much of the offense has too many faults to it...when they simplify
it they are forced back to some basics....what people should be talking
about is Sanchez's faking and ball handling ability as evidenced on that
bootleg for a TD....if he can do that stuff the true West Coast type offense
has some wonderful things available for him, and he has already done that
stuff to some degree in college....he seems to throw better when he throws
quickly and / or on the move, they have RB's to make this type of thing
happen.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I would love to watch nothing but Holmes for a game. Early on I saw
him quitting halfway through a play. Somone mentioned that last week
in here. I wonder if he gives up when unlikely for him to get the
ball.
___________________________________________________________
I'll watch it again tonight...can't say I've ever seen him quit on a
play....as for the previous two games...lots of people quite lots of times.
papa.carl44
> X-No-Archive: Yes
> what can he handle. Maybe a QB coach or a better OC is an asnwer bt I
> realy think it is driven by Samchez development. I know you don't
> agree.
>
> Yesterday on at least two plays he threw the ball when not under
> pressure & another Jet was open in front & I saw that woth ,y limited
> video. Maybe they have really simplified the offense or maybe he
> doesn't see the field well. He also throws well on the move at times
> but some of his bonehead plays come when he is on the move.
_________________________________________________________
Since neither of us are on the practice field or in the meetings anything we
say is an assumption or guess. But, what it looks to me to be is when
someone is drilled and drilled about what should happen on a given play and
it is set up over and over again in a practice situation to happen that way,
and then it doesn't in a game. Some of this will come with experience, what
Sanchez does look like to me is extremely tight and nervous and very
tentative. That, in my humble experience, is usually caused by the way the
player is being handled and coached. Even the way someone responds to
questions and the whole tone of things can create this situation. When
Sanchez looks loose, he makes some extremely good throws, very good
stuff...the fact that he CAN do that tells me something deeper is going on
and it involves his head and not his ability to do it. Only time will tell
if he gets his head straight, we will never know what the real problem is I
don't expect. Some guys have it, and because of things that happen with
them they never develop the right way. I simply don't know and I'm not
going to pretend I do, what I do see is a "reaction" from him, and my
experience tells me that when that happens it is because of something they
have been coached and drilled on, and it could be he thinks he is seeing it
and he isn't...time can fix that too. This kid had a very limited college
experience and is only in his second season being thrust into the starting
job right away...I think it is ludicrous to think he can "get the job done"
all the time. The game is just not that easy to play or understand from the
perspective of what he has to do.
____________________________________________________________________________
>
> I know you think this is the same offense as years one & two, & part
> of it is, but part of it changed last year but let's not beat that
> dead horse again. One good thing is we got away from the Wayne Hunter
> playing playing TE. There was more space because of that.
____________________________________________________________________________
No...he was doing something else at the time:-)
________________________________________________________________________
>
> One thing that bugs me is everyone screams about having Smith pass. I
> agree but I would rather see it on a reverse as opposed to when he is
> in the Seminole. Smith in motion freezes quite a few defenders on
> fake reverses. What happens if he got it rolling right & throws it,
> runs it or chucks it away. Is he that bad a passer?
_______________________________________________________________________
He wasn't bad in college. What kills me is they leave Sanchez in on
Wildcat...that is flat out stupid, who are you fooling? I have not seen the
formation or the plays they use ever be too successful and what they do with
it is fairly predictable and rather obvious. I like the formation and I
think they could make it work, but get the QB out of there....put a big TE
in or a WR...lots of stuff that could be done especially if you flip the
line to an overload with a TE coming back in. Instead of copying the
playbook of some guy coaching high school in Summit NJ...they should copy
the Dolphins stuff.
Harlan Lachman
"papa.carl44" <papad...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
> He wasn't bad in college. What kills me is they leave Sanchez in on
> Wildcat...that is flat out stupid, who are you fooling? I have not seen the
> formation or the plays they use ever be too successful and what they do with
> it is fairly predictable and rather obvious. I like the formation and I
> think they could make it work, but get the QB out of there....put a big TE
> in or a WR...lots of stuff that could be done especially if you flip the
> line to an overload with a TE coming back in. Instead of copying the
> playbook of some guy coaching high school in Summit NJ...they should copy
> the Dolphins stuff.
>
>
Two things:
He was erratic in college, which is why no one rated him a QB when he
came out.
Papa is more than right about not leaving Sanchez out in the TigerCat.
Defensive players cheat off him, if we make them pay, we risk our Qb
with the likely back up being the rag doll Brunell. Holmes or Braylon
out there is WR threat and even Dustin has to be taken seriously.
h
papa.carl44
"Harlan Lachman" <har...@eeivt.com> wrote in message
news:harlan-166CB1....@news60.forteinc.com...
Put Dustin out there...or even Harstock or whatever...if you flex and don't
split that far the guy becomes a serious blocker to the short side...Hell,
put a LB out there, just NOT Sanchez....also, if they went seriously "over"
to the other side, they can put that guy (the Sanchez position) off the ball
and bring them back in motion toward the formation....that could create some
real problems to deal with because it makes a corner move and a safety
readjust. I'm talking one "in" motion...not a "T" motion and it can really
work....a lot of people call it "bang" or "fake bang" if the guy goes back
the other way.
Glenn Greenstein
> Schott.
>
> :)
>
> I agree with your comments about Sanchez & I don't expect perfection.
> I am the guy who keeps posting Aikman's & Ellway's stats in years
> 1-3. QB's from great talent programs like USC, TX etc. often don't
> face pressure regularly. Their OLs are better, their RB's better &
> their WR's & TE's give them plenty of space to operate.
>
> > ____________________________________________________________________________
>
> > > I know you think this is the same offense as years one & two, & part
> > > of it is, but part of it changed last year but let's not beat that
> > > dead horse again. One good thing is we got away from the Wayne Hunter
> > > playing playing TE. There was more space because of that.
>
> > No...he was doing something else at the time:-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > ________________________________________________________________________
>
> > > One thing that bugs me is everyone screams about having Smith pass. I
> > > agree but I would rather see it on a reverse as opposed to when he is
> > > in the Seminole. Smith in motion freezes quite a few defenders on
> > > fake reverses. What happens if he got it rolling right & throws it,
> > > runs it or chucks it away. Is he that bad a passer?
>
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > He wasn't bad in college. What kills me is they leave Sanchez in on
> > Wildcat...that is flat out stupid, who are you fooling? I have not seen the
> > formation or the plays they use ever be too successful and what they do with
> > it is fairly predictable and rather obvious. I like the formation and I
> > think they could make it work, but get the QB out of there....put a big TE
> > in or a WR...lots of stuff that could be done especially if you flip the
> > line to an overload with a TE coming back in. Instead of copying the
> > playbook of some guy coaching high school in Summit NJ...they should copy
> > the Dolphins stuff.
>
> what a great way to slow the game down for a young QB. He comes out &
> have Cavanaugh talk with him for 30 seconds.
>
> Do the Dolphins pull the QB? I do remember Pennington staying in but
> maybe they have changed it.
> --- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'm actuall kind of surprised Carl wouldn't realize this. The reason
Sanchez stays in the game is if he came out, that would tip off the
other side what play was coming. If Brad is in the game and Sanchez
runs to the side line, ya think we are going to run a play with Smith
taking the snap? Do you also think the DC would like to make some
special subs to handle that kind of package the Jets were bringing in?
This in a sense prevents the D from bring in extra LB's or S to handle
the possibilty of a run by Smith.
Amazing what you can learn from watching TV.
papa.carl44
X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> news:harlan-166CB1....@news60.forteinc.com...
>
>
>
> > In article <6JedndCldoznSpLQnZ2dnUVZ_vudn...@giganews.com>,
I don't know if you guys watched the HBO history of the AFL. What
struck me is how they weren't afraid to lateral the ball both on
offense but also after interceptions. I know players are bigger &
faster but what does that do to the Wiildcat if the outside man has
to cover the pitch? I think we did it once last year in the playoffs.
The conventional thinking has always been that the option will not work in
the pros because DE's are too fast and you can't afford to get the QB hurt.
But, if the guy handling the ball is a ball carrier and not the QB, and it
is also a very fast guy, with a very fast option guy I think you could do
it...the issue then becomes practicing it. When I coached, my last job, we
were an option offense, and we always operated on the philosophy that you
needed to be able to defend your own offense (we saw it run against us by
enough other teams too)....and on both counts, offense and defense, that is
a highly effective offense, but one that needs to be practiced a LOT...over
and over...even defending it needs a lot of work and drill. The biggest
part is the recognition on the part of the guy taking the role of the
QB...he needs to see things very quickly and if he has to turn it up..he
needs to be a tough enough runner to handle it...even given all of that...I
think it has some possibilities with a good Wildcat attack...but not with
the Jets...they don't look like they even spend much time on the tigercat,
wildcat or whatever they call it. PRACTICE is a huge key on this.
papa.carl44
These kind of posts depress me. I know we both hope I am right about
Schott.
:)
I agree with your comments about Sanchez & I don't expect perfection.
I am the guy who keeps posting Aikman's & Ellway's stats in years
1-3. QB's from great talent programs like USC, TX etc. often don't
face pressure regularly. Their OLs are better, their RB's better &
their WR's & TE's give them plenty of space to operate.
> ____________________________________________________________________________
>
> > I know you think this is the same offense as years one & two, & part
> > of it is, but part of it changed last year but let's not beat that
> > dead horse again. One good thing is we got away from the Wayne Hunter
> > playing playing TE. There was more space because of that.
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> No...he was doing something else at the time:-)
:)
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> > One thing that bugs me is everyone screams about having Smith pass. I
> > agree but I would rather see it on a reverse as opposed to when he is
> > in the Seminole. Smith in motion freezes quite a few defenders on
> > fake reverses. What happens if he got it rolling right & throws it,
> > runs it or chucks it away. Is he that bad a passer?
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> He wasn't bad in college. What kills me is they leave Sanchez in on
> Wildcat...that is flat out stupid, who are you fooling? I have not seen
> the
> formation or the plays they use ever be too successful and what they do
> with
> it is fairly predictable and rather obvious. I like the formation and I
> think they could make it work, but get the QB out of there....put a big TE
> in or a WR...lots of stuff that could be done especially if you flip the
> line to an overload with a TE coming back in. Instead of copying the
> playbook of some guy coaching high school in Summit NJ...they should copy
> the Dolphins stuff.
I don't know why I thought they took him out last year. I agree as
what a great way to slow the game down for a young QB. He comes out &
have Cavanaugh talk with him for 30 seconds.
Do the Dolphins pull the QB? I do remember Pennington staying in but
maybe they have changed it.
I think they did it both ways...Penny was not threat either :-) I'm pretty
sure they did pull the QB though when they did all the continuous
stuff...there were times last season when they stayed in it for quite a
while...and they really moved the ball with it too...the problem is it can
be hard to score inside the red zone...the tighter the space gets the easier
it gets to defend.
papa.carl44
"Glenn Greenstein" <lex...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b7236559-d388-4d94...@fm22g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > I know you think this is the same offense as years one & two, & part
> > > of it is, but part of it changed last year but let's not beat that
> > > dead horse again. One good thing is we got away from the Wayne Hunter
> > > playing playing TE. There was more space because of that.
>
___________________________________________________________________
And it's amazing what you can learn from going to coaching clinics etc. The
other side can adjust pretty quickly...they are giving a guy up...they have
no intention of throwing to the weak side split end...no matter who is out
there...put Bob Hayes out there...and with that split and a non-QB at the
helm you don't take that chance...the allignment of the wildcat offense puts
people in position to clobber any mistakes like that....the play is to
create problems with the running attack...not a quick throw to the outside.
papa.carl44
"papa.carl44" <papad...@nospamverizon.net> wrote in message
news:kcydneXgwKAMlIzQ...@giganews.com...
To be more specific in terms of what I was referring to earlier...if they
put a TE or someone who can block out there...then move the wideout to the
other side up on the line or go
Flexed TE.....GCGTTTE they can then back the flexed TE off the line...and
move the WR on the heavy side up to the line...the covered TE becomes a
tackle, can even be a tackle..and the flexed TE can go in motion as a
blocker or do a fake bang type motion and they can run back that way...it
goes back to more of the principals of the single wing where it came from
and it can be a bitch to defend and can run D linemen ragged.
Glenn Greenstein
wrote:
> "Glenn Greenstein" <lexa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > I know you think this is the same offense as years one & two, & part
> > > > of it is, but part of it changed last year but let's not beat that
> > > > dead horse again. One good thing is we got away from the Wayne Hunter
> > > > playing playing TE. There was more space because of that.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
So why give it away by sending your QB to the sideline? Sorry Carl, I
have never seen a team make subs after they break the huddle.
papa.carl44
>
> > > > I know you think this is the same offense as years one & two, & part
> > > > of it is, but part of it changed last year but let's not beat that
> > > > dead horse again. One good thing is we got away from the Wayne
> > > > Hunter
> > > > playing playing TE. There was more space because of that.
>
You don't do it after you break the huddle. They use the scheme, the one
play set up as a way to get the ball in the hands of Smith...not all that
bad an idea, but the QB being out there has nothing to do with the play. I
guess if the D ignored him you could throw him the ball, but even that could
be risky...the way everyone else is alligned you have a major potential for
someone to really jump that huge out throw and I'm assuming it isn't going
to be done by a regular QB..but by Smith..he may get it, but it is a huge
risk if guys come up tight to defend what they see...the wildcat stuff. I
also assume that is why they split the QB so far out...the D has to at least
honor it, but in effect you are now playing 10 on 10....what I'm saying is
if you want the change up, don't just throw it in for one play....take the
QB out...and run the offense doing the many things it can do. To me, that
would really give Smith the chance to do something. I am not positive, but
I don't think there is anything illegal about sending the QB to the sideline
and then having him step out of bounds and be replaced by a WR. I'd have to
check that, you can do it at other levels of the game, I think you can do it
in the NFL too, because it isn't too many people in the huddle...you can
certainly run a guy on for a punt or kick. So..it could be done. I'm not
even saying that is what should be done though...all I'm saying is it fools
nobody, they are ready to adjust to it because when you run it that way it
is limited...I don't think you are coming back to the split side and have
the QB become a downfield blocker. That's all...only my opinion...if I
wanted Smith to get the ball and do something as a change up...I'd do
it...not nickle dime it.
Glenn Greenstein
>
> > > > > I know you think this is the same offense as years one & two, & part
> > > > > of it is, but part of it changed last year but let's not beat that
> > > > > dead horse again. One good thing is we got away from the Wayne
> > > > > Hunter
> > > > > playing playing TE. There was more space because of that.
>
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Forget it Carl, I musrt be speaking a different language because we
are talking about two totally different things.
papa.carl44
______________________________________________________
OK...I'm talking about football, and the use of the wildcat formation....any
time Smith is in the game the defense is quite aware they can go to that
formation, it doesn't fool anyone or catch them unaware, it wouldn't even do
that in a good high school program. That's all I'm talking about. When the
Dolphins used it as a one play deal, the QB would stay in....but the Fins
used it as an offensive option and they pulled the QB and did a hurry up
with the wildcat...and it was very effective. I guess it would really work
well leaving the QB in with a guy like Tebow.
Glenn Greenstein
>
> > > > > > I know you think this is the same offense as years one & two, &
> > > > > > part
> > > > > > of it is, but part of it changed last year but let's not beat that
> > > > > > dead horse again. One good thing is we got away from the Wayne
> > > > > > Hunter
> > > > > > playing playing TE. There was more space because of that.
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Forget it Carl, I musrt be speaking a different language because we
> are talking about two totally different things.
> ______________________________________________________
> OK...I'm talking about football,
And you wonder why people react to you the way they do.
papa.carl44
>
> > > > > > I know you think this is the same offense as years one & two, &
> > > > > > part
> > > > > > of it is, but part of it changed last year but let's not beat
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > dead horse again. One good thing is we got away from the Wayne
> > > > > > Hunter
> > > > > > playing playing TE. There was more space because of that.
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Forget it Carl, I musrt be speaking a different language because we
> are talking about two totally different things.
> ______________________________________________________
> OK...I'm talking about football,
And you wonder why people react to you the way they do.
Honestly...what are you talking about...YOU began with your comment about me
not knowing anything, and YOU do because you watch TV. I'm not being a wise
ass, I'm responding to the stuff YOU say. Let's have a truce....I would
love to meet you, sit and watch a game, get to know you, I'm certain you are
a very nice guy and this method of communication is losing something here.
Let me know what it is you are talking about...unless there is some post I'm
not seeing. My only point is using the formation doesn't fool anyone, I'm
beyond certain they all know to watch for it when Smith is in the game.
papa.carl44
>
> > > > I know you think this is the same offense as years one & two, & part
> > > > of it is, but part of it changed last year but let's not beat that
> > > > dead horse again. One good thing is we got away from the Wayne
> > > > Hunter
> > > > playing playing TE. There was more space because of that.
>
If this were so, just how would a team run the no huddle? In days gone by
it was a often used "trick" play to have ten players in the huddle, one left
out on the side or walk on after the huddle breaks, that guy sometimes never
was covered....none of that nonsense works today, the D is way too wary of
it. But a WR in a no huddle is working on site reaction anyway...no need to
be in the huddle.