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Michael
Oct 18, 2011, 9:26:52 PM10/18/11
to
I just watched the Jets-Fish game again... It is even worse than I
thought as far as the condition of the offense. I dont know if you
call it a sliver lining or not, but after watching, it is some what
understandable why Sanchez looks so bad. Yeah, he missed a few guys,
but for the most part, the Jets dont have a wide receiver. Holmes
runs a lot of the underneath stuff and so does Keller. They snuk deep
a few times, but Sanchez is working with limited options and the
defense knows it. Plax straigt up sucks. They would be better off
keeping him out of the game and using Kerley, Santonio and McKnight.
May be use Plax on the goal line. Also... Green could not find his
way out of a phone booth. Other than popping a few straight ahead, he
does not know what to do with himself. I wont blame the run blocking
either. They did a decent job. Green just cant take good advantage of
what is there.
This is really first rate condition. No running game and no passing
game. It is purely a manpower issue. I cant even blame Schotty.
I predict they wont sit Plax... The brains behind that pick-up would
never make such a mistake...
Not having Edwards and Cotch really screwed Sanchez up.
thought as far as the condition of the offense. I dont know if you
call it a sliver lining or not, but after watching, it is some what
understandable why Sanchez looks so bad. Yeah, he missed a few guys,
but for the most part, the Jets dont have a wide receiver. Holmes
runs a lot of the underneath stuff and so does Keller. They snuk deep
a few times, but Sanchez is working with limited options and the
defense knows it. Plax straigt up sucks. They would be better off
keeping him out of the game and using Kerley, Santonio and McKnight.
May be use Plax on the goal line. Also... Green could not find his
way out of a phone booth. Other than popping a few straight ahead, he
does not know what to do with himself. I wont blame the run blocking
either. They did a decent job. Green just cant take good advantage of
what is there.
This is really first rate condition. No running game and no passing
game. It is purely a manpower issue. I cant even blame Schotty.
I predict they wont sit Plax... The brains behind that pick-up would
never make such a mistake...
Not having Edwards and Cotch really screwed Sanchez up.
Message has been deleted
Papa Carl
Oct 18, 2011, 10:55:54 PM10/18/11
to
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:e7e1b049-fec0-4745...@y32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
decisions...and the worst part was not replacing them with equal quality.
They did the same thing when they let Faneca go. This is a very poorly run
operation. I watched it twice...the game. Both of those teams are
terrible. I thought Holmes was the only guy who could go play for a better
team to be honest. And you are right...they are much better off with Kerley
and McKnight playing wide receiver. Go back and look at Plaxico's face when
he is sitting alone...he knows it...he knows he has nothing left. Greene
stinks...he is not a serious RB at a top NFL level and nowhere near what TJ
and Washington were. He has no vision and does not even follow blocks when
he gets them. What the Hell is so wrong that it got this bad this quck?
Papa Carl
Oct 18, 2011, 10:57:10 PM10/18/11
to
"buRford" <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
news:ends975s949b6mf7i...@4ax.com...
> running routes
> given to them by their OC?
Plax can't run...he just can not do it...he is so slow and plodding. Holmes
is the only one who really looks like the real deal. OMHO.
Johnny Morongo
Oct 18, 2011, 11:37:03 PM10/18/11
to
On 10/18/2011 7:55 PM, Papa Carl wrote:
>
> Thank you, that is what I said right when they made those terrible
> decisions...and the worst part was not replacing them with equal quality.
> They did the same thing when they let Faneca go. This is a very poorly run
> operation.
Thanks for noticing, Papa. Yeah, to say that this organization is
>
> Thank you, that is what I said right when they made those terrible
> decisions...and the worst part was not replacing them with equal quality.
> They did the same thing when they let Faneca go. This is a very poorly run
> operation.
poorly run is more than a bit of an understatement. From the top down.
It'll never be really good until that pyramid topples. Next best
thing is to dump the GM and the rest of the FO and replace them with
REAL football people. I'm tired of bean counters running the show.
Maybe I even dump Rex Rex Motor Mouth. Such heresy!
And I'm sick and tired of bringing in defensive coach after defensive
coach...Parcells, Groh, Herm, Mangenius and now Rex; not an offensive
mind in the bunch. And people wonder why we don't ever win the big one.
Look around the league and tell me, other than Belichick (who is in a
class by himself), what "Top 5" team is so heavily defense dominated as
this one. Add to that, the fact that Rex, a defensive head coach,
doesn't know jack shit about offense. He can't even evaluate offensive
players (see Plax & Mason, eg.). He had a chance to see Freeman in
person and passed on him in favor of Sanchez. Duh!
Wake me when it's over. Right now, this whole team is such a waste of time.
Ray O'Hara
Oct 18, 2011, 11:38:00 PM10/18/11
to
"buRford" <buR...@buR.ford.com> wrote in message
news:ends975s949b6mf7i...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:26:52 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>Not having Edwards and Cotch really screwed Sanchez up.
>
>
>
>
> Do the WRs just run wherever they want to, or do you suppose that they're
> running routes
> given to them by their OC?
As a Pats fan I was delighted to se Cotchery dumped, he was a Pats killer.
> running routes
> given to them by their OC?
Señor Patriots
Oct 19, 2011, 12:09:35 AM10/19/11
to
On Oct 18, 10:38 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> As a Pats fan I was delighted to se Cotchery dumped, he was a Pats killer.
Yeh, sayonara to him. Don't let the door hit you in the ass. Between
>
>
> As a Pats fan I was delighted to se Cotchery dumped, he was a Pats killer.
him and the Miami Welker we had a couple who torched us in the
division.
I still remember the first time Welker played the Pats. They
introduced him during the game (he was returning kicks) and said,
"He's small but has some dangerous moves" and I thought, "Shurrrrre,
bring the little prick on!" I think before the half was over I was
sweating it every time he touched the ball. By the time the game was
over I thought, "Shit, we have to face that thing twice a year??"
Cotchery made one play that still sticks in the craw. It was a long
gainer, and as I remember it he was supposed to be downed but wasn't
and he popped up and shot off at 100mph while guys were standing
around going, "Huh?" That one stuck in the crotch.
Señor Patriots
Oct 19, 2011, 12:03:00 AM10/19/11
to
On Oct 18, 10:37 pm, Johnny Morongo <Moro...@Burf.com> wrote:
> what "Top 5" team is so heavily defense dominated as
> this one.
San Fran and Baltimore? Both of them run the ball well too. Gore
> what "Top 5" team is so heavily defense dominated as
> this one.
going for a buck fifty against Detroit?? Sheeeeeit, that ain't
amateur hour.
But I see your point. It's an offense dominated league right now.
Even the Packers don't really stone anybody on defense. There are
very few teams left with stonewall defenses. Dallas actually threw a
very confusing defense at Brady Sunday (until the last drive when they
probably abandoned what got them there.)
Michael
Oct 19, 2011, 9:59:36 AM10/19/11
to
On Oct 18, 10:55 pm, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> he gets them. What the Hell is so wrong that it got this bad this quck?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
since rex took over im considering the direction they went in with
respect to a few manpower decisions. in a few cases the moves made
sense, but they did not work out... in other cases, the decisions were
horrible.
1. leon johnson: a sound decision parting company considering his
injury and what he wanted to be paid
2. thomas jones: this was a bad decision. he was a good player and a
locker room guy. also... who did they replace him with ???
3. jay feeley: another locker room guy as well as being a good
player...one of the few kickers that was also able to hit like a
regular special teams guy. why did they not shell out minimal money
to keep him around ??? yes, folk worked out, but why diminish the
"team" by sending feeley off ???
4. faneca: bad BAD money deal that they made here. too much
guaranteed money for a guy with one good year left in him. still...
as soon as he showed up, brick learned how to play. coincidence ??? i
dont think so. it was smart to kiss him off, but he was not replaced
by elite level talent. have to say, though, slauson is a good run and
pass blocker even though he does not pull like faneca. in this past
jets-fish game, slauson looked quite good run blocking.
5. edwards: good value pick-up. worked well with sanchez. it was
understandable that they jets might have wanted to rid themselves of
his off the field problems, but why replace him with plax in that
case ??? IMHO, they blew it by not bringing edwards back. they blew it
to a sublime degree by going into the season with plax at wr. the
jets have one wr now, holmes, and he is more of a run after catch guy
and not a ranging wr. that is why sanchez is all screwed up.
6. plax: total disaster. this one was a total mistake by management/
coaching. they should have seen this coming. the guy cant even run or
move. think about this... they gave 3mm guaranteed and trusted the #2
WR spont to a guy that is old to begin with and also happened to be...
well... in prison for the past few years. brilliant.
7. cotch: considering his injuries, you can understand this one.
8. mason: this made sense... he played well last year and rex was
familiar with him. who knew he'd be such trouble ???
9. not signing woody again: considering his age, injury, and how well
hunter played, this one was understandable
10. hunter gets the start: this one also made sense giving how good
he looked filling in for woody last season. who knew he'd show up
looking like a turnstyle ??? Also... Who would have known that Turner
would get injured. A lot of the problems on the o-line were hard to
see coming.
So... With all of that you cant really blast management/coaching for
*everything* that went wrong. You can blast them for Plax-Edwards 100
%. You can also blast them for going into the season with Green as
their primary back. He's never proven anything. The Jets "ground and
pound" going into the season without a proven primary ball carrier is
on par with playing ice hockey without skates.
So... They get a pass on a few things, BUT...
As far as the big picture on offense, not only did they go into the
season without a proven running back, they stripped away their passing
game by swapping out Edwards for Plax. It just so happens that their
offensive line decisions didn’t work out too well also.
The offensive roster is so bad, Schotty does not have a chance to 'eff
things up.
SNAFU
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
since rex took over im considering the direction they went in with
respect to a few manpower decisions. in a few cases the moves made
sense, but they did not work out... in other cases, the decisions were
horrible.
1. leon johnson: a sound decision parting company considering his
injury and what he wanted to be paid
2. thomas jones: this was a bad decision. he was a good player and a
locker room guy. also... who did they replace him with ???
3. jay feeley: another locker room guy as well as being a good
player...one of the few kickers that was also able to hit like a
regular special teams guy. why did they not shell out minimal money
to keep him around ??? yes, folk worked out, but why diminish the
"team" by sending feeley off ???
4. faneca: bad BAD money deal that they made here. too much
guaranteed money for a guy with one good year left in him. still...
as soon as he showed up, brick learned how to play. coincidence ??? i
dont think so. it was smart to kiss him off, but he was not replaced
by elite level talent. have to say, though, slauson is a good run and
pass blocker even though he does not pull like faneca. in this past
jets-fish game, slauson looked quite good run blocking.
5. edwards: good value pick-up. worked well with sanchez. it was
understandable that they jets might have wanted to rid themselves of
his off the field problems, but why replace him with plax in that
case ??? IMHO, they blew it by not bringing edwards back. they blew it
to a sublime degree by going into the season with plax at wr. the
jets have one wr now, holmes, and he is more of a run after catch guy
and not a ranging wr. that is why sanchez is all screwed up.
6. plax: total disaster. this one was a total mistake by management/
coaching. they should have seen this coming. the guy cant even run or
move. think about this... they gave 3mm guaranteed and trusted the #2
WR spont to a guy that is old to begin with and also happened to be...
well... in prison for the past few years. brilliant.
7. cotch: considering his injuries, you can understand this one.
8. mason: this made sense... he played well last year and rex was
familiar with him. who knew he'd be such trouble ???
9. not signing woody again: considering his age, injury, and how well
hunter played, this one was understandable
10. hunter gets the start: this one also made sense giving how good
he looked filling in for woody last season. who knew he'd show up
looking like a turnstyle ??? Also... Who would have known that Turner
would get injured. A lot of the problems on the o-line were hard to
see coming.
So... With all of that you cant really blast management/coaching for
*everything* that went wrong. You can blast them for Plax-Edwards 100
%. You can also blast them for going into the season with Green as
their primary back. He's never proven anything. The Jets "ground and
pound" going into the season without a proven primary ball carrier is
on par with playing ice hockey without skates.
So... They get a pass on a few things, BUT...
As far as the big picture on offense, not only did they go into the
season without a proven running back, they stripped away their passing
game by swapping out Edwards for Plax. It just so happens that their
offensive line decisions didn’t work out too well also.
The offensive roster is so bad, Schotty does not have a chance to 'eff
things up.
SNAFU
Tutor
Oct 19, 2011, 11:04:56 AM10/19/11
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
You can't be correct about #1 because I distinctly remember Bob Jensen
> - Show quoted text -
tolling us all that Leon Johnson was the 4th best pick in the 1997
draft!!! :)
Michael
Oct 19, 2011, 11:14:55 AM10/19/11
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
i'm confusing my leons again :-)
> - Show quoted text -
Tutor
Oct 19, 2011, 11:33:08 AM10/19/11
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Better to confuse Leons than Johnsons
> - Show quoted text -
Michael
Oct 19, 2011, 11:50:16 AM10/19/11
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
post of the year :-)
> - Show quoted text -
Hammer
Oct 19, 2011, 11:48:39 AM10/19/11
to
On Oct 19, 9:59 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 2. thomas jones: this was a bad decision. he was a good player and a
> locker room guy. also... who did they replace him with ???
just was behind a really good line.
> 3. jay feeley: another locker room guy as well as being a good
> player...one of the few kickers that was also able to hit like a
> regular special teams guy. why did they not shell out minimal money
> to keep him around ??? yes, folk worked out, but why diminish the
> "team" by sending feeley off ???
with you.
> 4. faneca: bad BAD money deal that they made here. too much
> guaranteed money for a guy with one good year left in him. still...
> as soon as he showed up, brick learned how to play. coincidence ??? i
> dont think so. it was smart to kiss him off, but he was not replaced
> by elite level talent. have to say, though, slauson is a good run and
> pass blocker even though he does not pull like faneca. in this past
> jets-fish game, slauson looked quite good run blocking.
> 5. edwards: good value pick-up. worked well with sanchez. it was
> understandable that they jets might have wanted to rid themselves of
> his off the field problems, but why replace him with plax in that
> case ??? IMHO, they blew it by not bringing edwards back. they blew it
> to a sublime degree by going into the season with plax at wr. the
> jets have one wr now, holmes, and he is more of a run after catch guy
> and not a ranging wr. that is why sanchez is all screwed up.
both Holmes and Edwards. That was BS. They should have made an attempt
to keep both.
> 6. plax: total disaster. this one was a total mistake by management/
> coaching. they should have seen this coming. the guy cant even run or
> move. think about this... they gave 3mm guaranteed and trusted the #2
> WR spont to a guy that is old to begin with and also happened to be...
> well... in prison for the past few years. brilliant.
not signing Edwards and releasing Cotchery.
> 7. cotch: considering his injuries, you can understand this one.
> 8. mason: this made sense... he played well last year and rex was
> familiar with him. who knew he'd be such trouble ???
> 9. not signing woody again: considering his age, injury, and how well
> hunter played, this one was understandable
him.
> 10. hunter gets the start: this one also made sense giving how good
> he looked filling in for woody last season. who knew he'd show up
> looking like a turnstyle ??? Also... Who would have known that Turner
> would get injured. A lot of the problems on the o-line were hard to
> see coming.
the line at all.
> So... With all of that you cant really blast management/coaching for
> *everything* that went wrong. You can blast them for Plax-Edwards 100
> %. You can also blast them for going into the season with Green as
> their primary back. He's never proven anything. The Jets "ground and
> pound" going into the season without a proven primary ball carrier is
> on par with playing ice hockey without skates.
>
> So... They get a pass on a few things, BUT...
>
> As far as the big picture on offense, not only did they go into the
> season without a proven running back, they stripped away their passing
> game by swapping out Edwards for Plax. It just so happens that their
> offensive line decisions didn’t work out too well also.
>
> The offensive roster is so bad, Schotty does not have a chance to 'eff
> things up.
years ago when you were constantly being criticized by the other
regulars here, but I think you are way off base on this one.
> SNAFU- Hide quoted text -
Michael
Oct 19, 2011, 12:11:21 PM10/19/11
to
editorial as well as draw my own conclusions... you wont usually hear
me say the stuff that the parrots pass down the line... best of all,
i'm right about 50 % of the time, which makes me an expert :-)
> > SNAFU- Hide quoted text -
>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
is the depth on the o-line the only thing you dont agree with ??? they
> - Show quoted text -
did have robert turner ready to go untill ducasse blocked a defender
on to him. they were probably also counting on ducasse to some
extent. IMHO, it is the ducasse factor that totally screwed up the
line. if not for ducasse, they would have most probably arranged to
have another good back-up ready to go in the bull pen with robert
turner... ducasse has been a total disaster.
Johnny Morongo
Oct 19, 2011, 12:21:13 PM10/19/11
to
John C TX
Oct 19, 2011, 12:38:48 PM10/19/11
to
Leons look alike.
:)
good one Dave
Michael
Oct 19, 2011, 12:35:47 PM10/19/11
to
On Oct 19, 11:48 am, Hammer <stuart.feldha...@gmail.com> wrote:
make the most of what the line gave him. He was also durable and
could take the ball all game long. Most importantly, if you unload
Jones, you had better be sure you replace him with better. Especially
if you are a running team with a freshman QB.
> > 3. jay feeley: another locker room guy as well as being a good
> > player...one of the few kickers that was also able to hit like a
> > regular special teams guy. why did they not shell out minimal money
> > to keep him around ??? yes, folk worked out, but why diminish the
> > "team" by sending feeley off ???
>
> They had to release Feeley in order to sign Jason Taylor. But I agree
> with you.
far as the money goes. I know what was reported, but I did not see the
books...
> > 4. faneca: bad BAD money deal that they made here. too much
> > guaranteed money for a guy with one good year left in him. still...
> > as soon as he showed up, brick learned how to play. coincidence ??? i
> > dont think so. it was smart to kiss him off, but he was not replaced
> > by elite level talent. have to say, though, slauson is a good run and
> > pass blocker even though he does not pull like faneca. in this past
> > jets-fish game, slauson looked quite good run blocking.
>
> This was just cheap. There was no reason to release Faneca.
Schotty. Yes, more of my speculation, but recently, some clues have
come out in a Kris Jenkins interview that linked Faneca with locer
room politics and Schotty. Also... Faneca was getting blown appart
pass blocking. When he went to Arizona, he had the same problem.
Darnel Docket would bounce him around like a cartoon character at
practice.
> > 5. edwards: good value pick-up. worked well with sanchez. it was
> > understandable that they jets might have wanted to rid themselves of
> > his off the field problems, but why replace him with plax in that
> > case ??? IMHO, they blew it by not bringing edwards back. they blew it
> > to a sublime degree by going into the season with plax at wr. the
> > jets have one wr now, holmes, and he is more of a run after catch guy
> > and not a ranging wr. that is why sanchez is all screwed up.
>
> In the off-season, all the commentators said the Jets could not keep
> both Holmes and Edwards. That was BS. They should have made an attempt
> to keep both.
two. They thought they could get Nnambdi but not Edwards ??? BS !!!
> > 6. plax: total disaster. this one was a total mistake by management/
> > coaching. they should have seen this coming. the guy cant even run or
> > move. think about this... they gave 3mm guaranteed and trusted the #2
> > WR spont to a guy that is old to begin with and also happened to be...
> > well... in prison for the past few years. brilliant.
>
> Picking up Plax was not so terrible - it was a gamble. The problem was
> not signing Edwards and releasing Cotchery.
> > 7. cotch: considering his injuries, you can understand this one.
>
> Disagree - they should have kept him.
>
> > 8. mason: this made sense... he played well last year and rex was
> > familiar with him. who knew he'd be such trouble ???
>
> He was 37 - give me a break.
what you look at, not how many candles on the cake. Especially in a
VERY short, very affordable contract.
> > 9. not signing woody again: considering his age, injury, and how well
> > hunter played, this one was understandable
>
> No! This was more cheap BS. There was absolutely no reason no to sign
> him.
well. I was all for this. Turns out I was wrong about Hunter same as
the Jets were. He got his money and went out to lunch. Either that,
or his limitations took a while to show up. Who knows...
John C TX
Oct 19, 2011, 12:53:25 PM10/19/11
to
He was dues $7.5 MM but $5.25 MM was guaranteed. So they saved $2.25
MM in cash but they had to replace him so that cost $500M - 1.5 MM
depending on who you view as his replacement Slausson or Ducasse.
>
> > 5. edwards: good value pick-up. worked well with sanchez. it was
> > understandable that they jets might have wanted to rid themselves of
> > his off the field problems, but why replace him with plax in that
> > case ??? IMHO, they blew it by not bringing edwards back. they blew it
> > to a sublime degree by going into the season with plax at wr. the
> > jets have one wr now, holmes, and he is more of a run after catch guy
> > and not a ranging wr. that is why sanchez is all screwed up.
>
> In the off-season, all the commentators said the Jets could not keep
> both Holmes and Edwards. That was BS. They should have made an attempt
> to keep both.
Listen I have come to hate Plaxico but Edwards wanted Holmes $. You
> > 5. edwards: good value pick-up. worked well with sanchez. it was
> > understandable that they jets might have wanted to rid themselves of
> > his off the field problems, but why replace him with plax in that
> > case ??? IMHO, they blew it by not bringing edwards back. they blew it
> > to a sublime degree by going into the season with plax at wr. the
> > jets have one wr now, holmes, and he is more of a run after catch guy
> > and not a ranging wr. that is why sanchez is all screwed up.
>
> In the off-season, all the commentators said the Jets could not keep
> both Holmes and Edwards. That was BS. They should have made an attempt
> to keep both.
can't invest that much $ in one position especially when they are
prone to screwing up. I think from a risk perspective it was an
either or situation.
>
> > 6. plax: total disaster. this one was a total mistake by management/
> > coaching. they should have seen this coming. the guy cant even run or
> > move. think about this... they gave 3mm guaranteed and trusted the #2
> > WR spont to a guy that is old to begin with and also happened to be...
> > well... in prison for the past few years. brilliant.
>
> Picking up Plax was not so terrible - it was a gamble. The problem was
> not signing Edwards and releasing Cotchery.
>
> > 7. cotch: considering his injuries, you can understand this one.
>
> Disagree - they should have kept him.
I agree especially since he was under contract for another year.
> > 6. plax: total disaster. this one was a total mistake by management/
> > coaching. they should have seen this coming. the guy cant even run or
> > move. think about this... they gave 3mm guaranteed and trusted the #2
> > WR spont to a guy that is old to begin with and also happened to be...
> > well... in prison for the past few years. brilliant.
>
> Picking up Plax was not so terrible - it was a gamble. The problem was
> not signing Edwards and releasing Cotchery.
>
> > 7. cotch: considering his injuries, you can understand this one.
>
> Disagree - they should have kept him.
>
> > 8. mason: this made sense... he played well last year and rex was
> > familiar with him. who knew he'd be such trouble ???
>
> He was 37 - give me a break.
>
> > 9. not signing woody again: considering his age, injury, and how well
> > hunter played, this one was understandable
>
> No! This was more cheap BS. There was absolutely no reason no to sign
> him.
I think Woody sucked.
> > 8. mason: this made sense... he played well last year and rex was
> > familiar with him. who knew he'd be such trouble ???
>
> He was 37 - give me a break.
>
> > 9. not signing woody again: considering his age, injury, and how well
> > hunter played, this one was understandable
>
> No! This was more cheap BS. There was absolutely no reason no to sign
> him.
>
> > 10. hunter gets the start: this one also made sense giving how good
> > he looked filling in for woody last season. who knew he'd show up
> > looking like a turnstyle ??? Also... Who would have known that Turner
> > would get injured. A lot of the problems on the o-line were hard to
> > see coming.
>
> Come on, you are apologizing for bad decisions. They have no depth on
> the line at all.
I am on Michael on this one. Hunter was a FA & would have left.
> > 10. hunter gets the start: this one also made sense giving how good
> > he looked filling in for woody last season. who knew he'd show up
> > looking like a turnstyle ??? Also... Who would have known that Turner
> > would get injured. A lot of the problems on the o-line were hard to
> > see coming.
>
> Come on, you are apologizing for bad decisions. They have no depth on
> the line at all.
Someone decided that he can start (Rex, Schott but probably Callahan)
It didn't save us much as Hunter signed a $12+MM deal.
Hammer
Oct 19, 2011, 1:02:29 PM10/19/11
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>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just on Edwards - he said several times that he wanted to be a Jet and
> - Show quoted text -
was willing to take a discount. I don't think the Jets ever made him
an offer.
Hammer
Oct 19, 2011, 1:05:42 PM10/19/11
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>
> - Show quoted text -
No, that's not the only thing I don't agree with. My main point is
> - Show quoted text -
that the Jets are an incredibly cheap organization. Nearly all of
their decisions are made with the goal of saving Woody a few dollars,
at the expense of fielding a competitive football team. Your post
sounded to me like you were trying to say that it wasn't management's
fault, that a lot of unexpected things happened, and that is what I
disagree with. There's a difference between an accident and
negligence, a bad decision and incompetence, ignorance and willful
blindness.
I will respond to your specific points in your other post.
Hammer
Oct 19, 2011, 1:10:35 PM10/19/11
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>
> - Show quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Hammer
Oct 19, 2011, 1:22:05 PM10/19/11
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shouldn't have unloaded him. Here's what Wikipedia says about it:
"The New York Jets announced that they would release Jones as of March
5, 2010 due to an upcoming contract bonus (all despite having a career-
high season with 1,402 rushing yards)."
At that time Greene had played a couple of good games and based on
that they release Jones??? They got nothing out of it except some cash
in Woody's pocket. They are a cheap ass organization.
> > > 3. jay feeley: another locker room guy as well as being a good
> > > player...one of the few kickers that was also able to hit like a
> > > regular special teams guy. why did they not shell out minimal money
> > > to keep him around ??? yes, folk worked out, but why diminish the
> > > "team" by sending feeley off ???
>
> > They had to release Feeley in order to sign Jason Taylor. But I agree
> > with you.
>
> I cant speak to that point, becuase I dont know what the truth was as
> far as the money goes. I know what was reported, but I did not see the
> books...
they could not sign a new free agent unless they lost a free agent.
They chose to let Feeley walk.
> > > 4. faneca: bad BAD money deal that they made here. too much
> > > guaranteed money for a guy with one good year left in him. still...
> > > as soon as he showed up, brick learned how to play. coincidence ??? i
> > > dont think so. it was smart to kiss him off, but he was not replaced
> > > by elite level talent. have to say, though, slauson is a good run and
> > > pass blocker even though he does not pull like faneca. in this past
> > > jets-fish game, slauson looked quite good run blocking.
>
> > This was just cheap. There was no reason to release Faneca.
>
> Two things here... Faneca was probably opening his mouth about
> Schotty. Yes, more of my speculation, but recently, some clues have
> come out in a Kris Jenkins interview that linked Faneca with locer
> room politics and Schotty. Also... Faneca was getting blown appart
> pass blocking. When he went to Arizona, he had the same problem.
> Darnel Docket would bounce him around like a cartoon character at
> practice.
is, they didn't replace him with anyone better (they released him
right after signing Ducasse who was an unknown quantity), and it was
purely driven by money. Even if he sat on the bench as a backup, he
could have provided leadership and mentorship to the young players.
Again, CHEAP.
release Cotchery???
It's not like this is rocket science. It was obvious at the time that
this was the wrong move.
Unless all you care about is the "very affordable contract". Or you're
a total idiot. Or both.
> > > 9. not signing woody again: considering his age, injury, and how well
> > > hunter played, this one was understandable
>
> > No! This was more cheap BS. There was absolutely no reason no to sign
> > him.
>
> Hammer... Woody was a mess last year. He sucked. Hunter played very
> well. I was all for this. Turns out I was wrong about Hunter same as
> the Jets were. He got his money and went out to lunch. Either that,
Again, Woody may have been as bad as you say. But why cut him? What is
gained???
Re: Hunter playing well, it's just like Greene playing well. You don't
make a decision to cut someone based on a few games good play by
another player. A few games can be deceptive. I've seen lots of
players in different sports look good for a short time and then
totally suck, because the opposing players sniff out their weaknesses
and exploit them.
Bottom line, I am totally sick of the Jets management right now. And I
used to hate BB for quitting the Jets, but I don't anymore. I
understand why. He had no idea who the owner of the team was going to
be and what kind of control he would have here. And he was right!
Rex was so desperate for an HC job that he probably knew that he was
getting into a situation where he'd have minimal control even over his
own crappy offensive coordinator, and he figured he'd make the best of
it. Not BB.
Julio Sanchez
Oct 19, 2011, 2:18:45 PM10/19/11
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On Oct 18, 9:26 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I just watched the Jets-Fish game again... It is even worse than I
> thought as far as the condition of the offense. I dont know if you
> call it a sliver lining or not, but after watching, it is some what
> understandable why Sanchez looks so bad.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2011/walkthrough-unfocused
> I just watched the Jets-Fish game again... It is even worse than I
> thought as far as the condition of the offense. I dont know if you
> call it a sliver lining or not, but after watching, it is some what
> understandable why Sanchez looks so bad.
Julio
graybeard
Oct 19, 2011, 2:18:49 PM10/19/11
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On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 08:33:08 -0700 (PDT), Tutor <dcat...@yahoo.com>
repartee David.
--
graybeard
wrote:
>On Oct 19, 11:14 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> i'm confusing my leons again :-)
>>
>
>On Oct 19, 11:14 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> i'm confusing my leons again :-)
>>
>
>Better to confuse Leons than Johnsons
I'm now cleaning a mouthful of sandwich off my laptop screen. Excellent
repartee David.
--
graybeard
Michael
Oct 19, 2011, 2:19:13 PM10/19/11
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>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -...
one thing i have to out right disagree with is the jets/woody j. being
a cheap organization. far from it. look at the jets facilities,
stadium and staff. the jets also have the best (most expensive)
doctors/medical guys in the league. woody spends. it may be that he
is penny wise and dollar foolish, but the over all jets war chest has
been a big one. i think woody j. has a few blind spots that cost him
where the jets team quality is concerned... also... i dont have a
single idea of what actually comes fown from woody and what comes from
tanny as far as those items we are talking about above. it may be
tanny or rex insisting on doing silly things like plax and not woody
j.
one thing that i feel strongly about as far as woody j. i think he is
the one propping up schotty. bet on it.
again... the biggest problem with the jets now is that from a manpower
standpoint, they are not geared up to run or pass. IMHO, their only
hope is to go to 3 and 4 wr spead sets and let sanchez start throwing
it all over the place like he did their first two games. too bad rexy
wants to go back to ground and pound without a real running back in
his stable. all they can pound right now is salt up their asses.
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 19, 2011, 2:26:06 PM10/19/11
to
On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 9:59:36 AM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> On Oct 18, 10:55 pm, "Papa Carl"
> wrote:
> On Oct 18, 10:55 pm, "Papa Carl"
> > "Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
Leon was injured and wanted too much money, Thomas Jones was going over the hill, OK ... but that was 1,900 yards gone between them -- replaced by Greene who has all of 380 including receptions while getting 3.4 a carry.
Faneca was a high-priced and over-the-hill ex-All Pro, OK, ... but replaced with Slauson?
It might have made sense to say goodbye to Edwards because of his behavior issues ... but if that's why they got rid of him, did it make any sense at all to replace him with Plaxico????
Two years ago they had an offense producing 172 yards rushing per game that could carry Sanchez until he got better. Now their rushing is the weakest in half a century.
I don't see even any attempt to keep the running game going. How can you have a "ground and pound" with no running backs? And letting your blockers leave?
Sanchez is all that's left. Fortunately his is better than the last couple years. Because he *is* the offense now.
Julio Sanchez
Oct 19, 2011, 1:51:23 PM10/19/11
to
On Oct 18, 9:26 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I just watched the Jets-Fish game again... It is even worse than I
> thought as far as the condition of the offense. I dont know if you
> call it a sliver lining or not, but after watching, it is some what
> understandable why Sanchez looks so bad.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2011/walkthrough-unfocused
> thought as far as the condition of the offense. I dont know if you
> call it a sliver lining or not, but after watching, it is some what
> understandable why Sanchez looks so bad.
Julio
Julio Sanchez
Oct 19, 2011, 2:19:35 PM10/19/11
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oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 19, 2011, 2:46:14 PM10/19/11
to
On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 11:48:39 AM UTC-4, Hammer wrote:
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > "Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
If you are going to have a "ground and pound" while also developing a young QB, the O-Line has to be an absolutely **top** priority.
You don't get rid of two of your top blockers because you become too cheap to keep paying them what you already agreed to pay them. Who should know a sub be a turnstile as a starter? The coaches who watched him for the entire prior year. Who could guess there'd be an injury??? You *know* there are going to be injuries in a 16-game season, that's why you need *depth*.
It's not so hard to have competent backups for an OL if it is a priority.
But if your OL is your 6th or 7th priority, while you spend the offseason chasing after another big-dollar CB who winds up in Philly (for all the good he is doing them) and elbowing all the other teams out of the way to get Plaxico ... well, then your OL that two years ago was roadgrading the opposition for 170 yards of rushing a game becomes the one we saw against the Ravens.
The collapse of the OL is entirely on Rex and Tanny. It was their *policy*. It's not just that they did nothing to stop it, they made it so.
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > "Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
You don't get rid of two of your top blockers because you become too cheap to keep paying them what you already agreed to pay them. Who should know a sub be a turnstile as a starter? The coaches who watched him for the entire prior year. Who could guess there'd be an injury??? You *know* there are going to be injuries in a 16-game season, that's why you need *depth*.
It's not so hard to have competent backups for an OL if it is a priority.
But if your OL is your 6th or 7th priority, while you spend the offseason chasing after another big-dollar CB who winds up in Philly (for all the good he is doing them) and elbowing all the other teams out of the way to get Plaxico ... well, then your OL that two years ago was roadgrading the opposition for 170 yards of rushing a game becomes the one we saw against the Ravens.
The collapse of the OL is entirely on Rex and Tanny. It was their *policy*. It's not just that they did nothing to stop it, they made it so.
Michael
Oct 19, 2011, 3:00:12 PM10/19/11
to
season and the season before that, faneca was so bad that he looked
like a bowling pin getting knocked over way too often. so, where were
the "top blockers"
slauson replaced faneca. slauson is a good straight ahead run blocker
and a good pass blocker. you need to call running playes for his
particular skills and not expect him to be what faneca once was. you
can still have a running game and passing game with slauson.
they did show some attention to beefing up the line, the problem is
they did it by drafting ducasse. he sucks and will never stop
sucking.
we know how hunter looked last season and we know how he looked this
season.
the ducasse draft and the hunter re-signing cost them. not getting
rid of woody or faneca. they had to go.
Hammer
Oct 19, 2011, 3:24:40 PM10/19/11
to
> one thing i have to out right disagree with is the jets/woody j. being
> a cheap organization. far from it. look at the jets facilities,
> stadium and staff. the jets also have the best (most expensive)
> doctors/medical guys in the league. woody spends. it may be that he
> is penny wise and dollar foolish, but the over all jets war chest has
> been a big one. i think woody j. has a few blind spots that cost him
> where the jets team quality is concerned... also... i dont have a
> single idea of what actually comes fown from woody and what comes from
> tanny as far as those items we are talking about above. it may be
> tanny or rex insisting on doing silly things like plax and not woody
> j.
>
> one thing that i feel strongly about as far as woody j. i think he is
> the one propping up schotty. bet on it.
>
> again... the biggest problem with the jets now is that from a manpower
> standpoint, they are not geared up to run or pass. IMHO, their only
> hope is to go to 3 and 4 wr spead sets and let sanchez start throwing
> it all over the place like he did their first two games. too bad rexy
> wants to go back to ground and pound without a real running back in
> his stable. all they can pound right now is salt up their asses.
Woody does spend on some things - it's true. But I could argue that he
> a cheap organization. far from it. look at the jets facilities,
> stadium and staff. the jets also have the best (most expensive)
> doctors/medical guys in the league. woody spends. it may be that he
> is penny wise and dollar foolish, but the over all jets war chest has
> been a big one. i think woody j. has a few blind spots that cost him
> where the jets team quality is concerned... also... i dont have a
> single idea of what actually comes fown from woody and what comes from
> tanny as far as those items we are talking about above. it may be
> tanny or rex insisting on doing silly things like plax and not woody
> j.
>
> one thing that i feel strongly about as far as woody j. i think he is
> the one propping up schotty. bet on it.
>
> again... the biggest problem with the jets now is that from a manpower
> standpoint, they are not geared up to run or pass. IMHO, their only
> hope is to go to 3 and 4 wr spead sets and let sanchez start throwing
> it all over the place like he did their first two games. too bad rexy
> wants to go back to ground and pound without a real running back in
> his stable. all they can pound right now is salt up their asses.
only spends on an expensive stadium because he knows he'll be able to
get away with charging insane prices for seats and PSLs. Maybe the
nicer stadium attracts more corporate customers - I don't know.
Papa Carl
Oct 19, 2011, 6:00:32 PM10/19/11
to
news:46a256f0-9f87-4200...@g25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Michael...there is a huge difference in putting money into material
things...like facilities...and spending on employees...some "owners" or
bosses tend to like material things they can absolutely own and deduct
depreciation on and have the same contempt for any employee...it is just in
their nature to be that way.
things...like facilities...and spending on employees...some "owners" or
bosses tend to like material things they can absolutely own and deduct
depreciation on and have the same contempt for any employee...it is just in
their nature to be that way.
JetsLife
Oct 19, 2011, 7:09:52 PM10/19/11
to
On Oct 18, 9:26 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I just watched the Jets-Fish game again... It is even worse than I
> thought as far as the condition of the offense. I dont know if you
> call it a sliver lining or not, but after watching, it is some what
> understandable why Sanchez looks so bad. Yeah, he missed a few guys,
> but for the most part, the Jets dont have a wide receiver. Holmes
> runs a lot of the underneath stuff and so does Keller. They snuk deep
> a few times, but Sanchez is working with limited options and the
> defense knows it. Plax straigt up sucks. They would be better off
> keeping him out of the game and using Kerley, Santonio and McKnight.
> May be use Plax on the goal line. Also... Green could not find his
> way out of a phone booth. Other than popping a few straight ahead, he
> does not know what to do with himself. I wont blame the run blocking
> either. They did a decent job. Green just cant take good advantage of
> what is there.
>
> This is really first rate condition. No running game and no passing
> game. It is purely a manpower issue. I cant even blame Schotty.
>
> I predict they wont sit Plax... The brains behind that pick-up would
> never make such a mistake...
>
> Not having Edwards and Cotch really screwed Sanchez up.
You may be right. But remember, there's no way you can see everything
> thought as far as the condition of the offense. I dont know if you
> call it a sliver lining or not, but after watching, it is some what
> understandable why Sanchez looks so bad. Yeah, he missed a few guys,
> but for the most part, the Jets dont have a wide receiver. Holmes
> runs a lot of the underneath stuff and so does Keller. They snuk deep
> a few times, but Sanchez is working with limited options and the
> defense knows it. Plax straigt up sucks. They would be better off
> keeping him out of the game and using Kerley, Santonio and McKnight.
> May be use Plax on the goal line. Also... Green could not find his
> way out of a phone booth. Other than popping a few straight ahead, he
> does not know what to do with himself. I wont blame the run blocking
> either. They did a decent job. Green just cant take good advantage of
> what is there.
>
> This is really first rate condition. No running game and no passing
> game. It is purely a manpower issue. I cant even blame Schotty.
>
> I predict they wont sit Plax... The brains behind that pick-up would
> never make such a mistake...
>
> Not having Edwards and Cotch really screwed Sanchez up.
on TV even if you were at the game. You must see all the films/angles
to truly know.
I still think it's the scheme and mindset. When the offensive program/
scheme/play-calling is as dull, non-sensical and every other non-
superlative ... it's only human nature ieffect your WRs and skill
players. There's no excuse for Plax or anyone to go 'half speed' ever,
but when you're in a 3-yards and cloud of conservative dust
offense ... it can effect you.
Anyone who's played sports in a similar situation knows what I'm
talking about. Subconsciously you start to lose interest and focus.
The mind can wander.
You said it yourself when the Jets had Favre: he coached Schotty what
to call. Sanchez should take a step back and let go of his good-
soldier obedience to RexHeimer
My sense is this which I mentioned a couple years: Schotty gets a pass
because of his hard work Mon. - Sat. - but when it comes to the
showdown on Sundays, he shows his true conservative cowardly play-
calling colors.
oldn...@mindspring.com
Oct 19, 2011, 7:29:57 PM10/19/11
to
On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 3:00:12 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
They were up front blocking for 170 yards rushing per game, #1 in the league, that's where they were.
Players who *really* suck and are as bad as you claim are *easy* to upgrade from with better replacements.
OK ... Everyone who sees the big upgrade in the OL from two years ago, raise your hand!
If it's not so easy to find a better replacement for a player -- and you can't even an get an equal one -- then, no, he doesn't really suck.
> slauson replaced faneca. slauson is a good straight ahead run blocker
> and a good pass blocker. you need to call running playes for his
> particular skills and not expect him to be what faneca once was. you
> can still have a running game and passing game with slauson.
>
> they did show some attention to beefing up the line, the problem is
> they did it by drafting ducasse. he sucks and will never stop
> sucking.
>
> we know how hunter looked last season and we know how he looked this
> season.
We know how Hunter looked for *six years* as a journeyman backup unable to get even one game as a first-team starter anywhere, including practicing for the coaches here for a couple years.
Put that up against his looking surprisingly not as bad as expected as a sub in a few games at the end of last year, and decide: "He's our ground-and-pound OT of the future".
Then he becomes what you called a "turnstyle".
So what was that: really really bad talent evaluation? Or just being cheap?
The OL is the foundation of any offense -- *especially* one built on ground-and-pound running and protecting a young learning QB.
When you go slashing the payroll you spend on it and cutting linemen for whom you have no comparable replacements (even if they "suck") you have *chosen* to have it fall apart, because you want to put your resources elsewhere. That's what they've done, and the result is square on them.
>
> the ducasse draft and the hunter re-signing cost them. not getting
> rid of woody or faneca. they had to go.
Actually, no. Woody was expecting to be here and would be, but they wanted him to take a cut in pay.
But if they *weren't* going to be here, and the OL is the *priority* it should be with a ground-and-pound and kid QB, then instead of chasing after another star CB and Plaxico with millions of dollars, they'd go get a couple decent linemen.
But they made their choice -- and now they've got the most pathetic Jets running game in 48 years.
Players who *really* suck and are as bad as you claim are *easy* to upgrade from with better replacements.
OK ... Everyone who sees the big upgrade in the OL from two years ago, raise your hand!
If it's not so easy to find a better replacement for a player -- and you can't even an get an equal one -- then, no, he doesn't really suck.
> slauson replaced faneca. slauson is a good straight ahead run blocker
> and a good pass blocker. you need to call running playes for his
> particular skills and not expect him to be what faneca once was. you
> can still have a running game and passing game with slauson.
>
> they did show some attention to beefing up the line, the problem is
> they did it by drafting ducasse. he sucks and will never stop
> sucking.
>
> we know how hunter looked last season and we know how he looked this
> season.
Put that up against his looking surprisingly not as bad as expected as a sub in a few games at the end of last year, and decide: "He's our ground-and-pound OT of the future".
Then he becomes what you called a "turnstyle".
So what was that: really really bad talent evaluation? Or just being cheap?
The OL is the foundation of any offense -- *especially* one built on ground-and-pound running and protecting a young learning QB.
When you go slashing the payroll you spend on it and cutting linemen for whom you have no comparable replacements (even if they "suck") you have *chosen* to have it fall apart, because you want to put your resources elsewhere. That's what they've done, and the result is square on them.
>
> the ducasse draft and the hunter re-signing cost them. not getting
> rid of woody or faneca. they had to go.
But if they *weren't* going to be here, and the OL is the *priority* it should be with a ground-and-pound and kid QB, then instead of chasing after another star CB and Plaxico with millions of dollars, they'd go get a couple decent linemen.
But they made their choice -- and now they've got the most pathetic Jets running game in 48 years.
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