Re: After further review, Alosi now suspended indefinitely.
Michael
> Tannenbaum is now saying that Alosi told the players to form a wall
> along the sidelines, and Mr. T has changed the suspension to indefinite.
> Tannenbaum apparently got this info from the involved players
> themselves. Now Alosi should be fired for insubordination, because he
> directly contravened a stated policy of both Tannenbaum and Rex that
> they do not coach or support this kind of tactic.
> --
> graybeard
how do we know for sure that they dont support this tactic ??? it is
probably from mike westhoff... i just went back to watch a few old
games and they lined up like this before just like a bunch of soldiers
on review. alosi does not have the juice to pull an order like that
out of his ass... he was instructed/coached to do it... it is a sure
bet...
but... from what other people have said, it is not an uncommon tactic
nor is it against the rules... i dont know why they could not come
clean and say that they do it to mennace the gunner. so what ??? if
it was up to me, i'd use another tactic.... when the gunner started
coming up the sidelines, i'd have the flight crew cheer leaders lift
their skirts :-)
rt
It IS against the rules. Only coaches and situational subs are
allowed that close. But yeah, other teams do it.
And here are some of the snitches. Remarkably forthcoming. Alosi is
toast. Whether as a scapegoat, or merely a gutless prick, it is hard
to say.
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/12/jets_players_say_strength_coac.html
rt
marcman
> On Dec 15, 5:36 pm, graybeard <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> but... from what other people have said, it is not an uncommon tactic
Apparently not.
> nor is it against the rules... i
I didn't know this until today, but it is against the rules.
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5922926
===
NFL vice president of football operations Ray Anderson has reviewed
the play and he said what Alosi ordered was illegal. At the owners'
meetings in Fort Worth, Texas, he cited two NFL rules about where
players, coaches and support staff are supposed to stand.
When asked if they were in violation of the rules, Anderson said:
"Yes."
rt
Of course it was in violation:
From the NFL Rulebook:
Rule 13, Article 5 Coaches and other non-participating team personnel
(including uniformed players not in the game at the time) are
prohibited from moving laterally along the sidelines any further than
the points that are 18 yards from the middle of the bench area (i.e.,
32-yard lines to left and right of bench areas when benches are placed
on opposite sides of the field). Lateral movement within the bench
area must be behind the solid six-foot white border.
Included in the rulebook is this diagram:
http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/nfl-bench-area.png
rt
Ritchie
> along the sidelines, and Mr. T has changed the suspension to indefinite.
> Tannenbaum apparently got this info from the involved players
> themselves. Now Alosi should be fired for insubordination, because he
> directly contravened a stated policy of both Tannenbaum and Rex that
> they do not coach or support this kind of tactic.
> --
> graybeard
How do we know that Ryan didn't tell him to do this? After watching,
hearing Ryan and throw in the fact that he is Buddy's son, I wouldn't
put it past him. Alosi could just be a patsy/scapegoat.
MuahMan
> Tannenbaum is now saying that Alosi told the players to form a wall
> along the sidelines, and Mr. T has changed the suspension to indefinite.
> Tannenbaum apparently got this info from the involved players
> themselves. Now Alosi should be fired for insubordination, because he
> directly contravened a stated policy of both Tannenbaum and Rex that
> they do not coach or support this kind of tactic.
> --
> graybeard
Tripgate!
Everything the Jets haven't won is tainted!
Deadmeat
> Tannenbaum is now saying that Alosi told the players to form a wall
> along the sidelines, and Mr. T has changed the suspension to indefinite.
> Tannenbaum apparently got this info from the involved players
> themselves. Now Alosi should be fired for insubordination, because he
> directly contravened a stated policy of both Tannenbaum and Rex that
> they do not coach or support this kind of tactic.
Amazing. If this dumbass doesn't stick out his knee, nothing happens.
He should be fired now just for being stupid.
marcman
Heh . . . usually I find you to be a boring unclever troll, but that
was kinda funny . . .
Ritchie
Michael
Tutor
> Tannenbaum is now saying that Alosi told the players to form a wall
> along the sidelines, and Mr. T has changed the suspension to indefinite.
> Tannenbaum apparently got this info from the involved players
> themselves. Now Alosi should be fired for insubordination, because he
> directly contravened a stated policy of both Tannenbaum and Rex that
> they do not coach or support this kind of tactic.
> --
> graybeard
I go back and forth on deciding which of Rex or Westhoff Alosi is
taking the fall for.
Because we all know that a strength and conditioning coach didn't
order "the wall". Furthermore, assistants and players are not abouot
to follow orders from Alosi.
So which is it? Rex or Westy?
I hope they are paying Alosi handsomely for sacrificing his NFL career
for their assinine blunder.
Michael
i was thinking the same thing... he's getting compensated to keep his
trap shut... IMHO, it was Westy... I heard an inteview with Rex on the
matter.... he just bumbled and stumbled... he's prtecting somone...
probably Westy... If Rex himseld did it, he'd "out" himself...
Tutor
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah.. I voted for Westhoff on this one at the poll over on
NYJetschat.com.
For which coach is Alosi taking the fall?
a) ST Coach Westhoff
b) HC Ryan
c) OC Schottenheimer (since everything else is his fault, why the fuck
not?) :) :) :)
papa.carl44
"Tutor" <dcat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a5f07872-1dfc-4974...@j25g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Westhoff has been around in that position for a long time and never did
anything like it before, so I'm inclined to think it was someone else's idea
and I don't think anybody has the brass ones to do it besides the HC....that
is the "wall" part, not the tripping, I'm guessing that was Alosi's touch to
the episode.
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
no way... not schotty... he has no where near the level of creativity
and innovation to come up with the famed Jet Wall Of Death
Michael
wrote:
> "Tutor" <dcat4...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
by any chance is former jet LB Stan Blinka on he Jet coaching staff
these days ??? I remember Blinka was infamous for the close-line
tackle and the elbow to the throat LONG after those items went out of
style with the officials :-) i could see blinka coaching guyst to
trip gunners... hehe
MuahMan
>
> rt
Tripping and trying to injure players is far worse than videoing from
the wrong location. The Jets are cheaters.
Tutor
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
> I saw someplace that the only responsibility the strength coach has on
> game day is to keep the players back off the sideline. That being the
> case it isn't totally outrageous to think that Alosi took it on
> himself to line them up.
>
> I am surprised at the few comments being made that the gunner was
> cheating.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
lots of gunners slip OOB then try to get back in. It's a penalty in
the NFL, but it's not cheating. And those that glide down the field a
foot or two OOB may sneak down more quickly, but do not deserve to
have their careers jeopardized by meatheads like Alosi.
Tutor
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree. Had it been Schotty, the wall would have been in motion.
Deadmeat
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 05:56:17 -0800 (PST) Tutor<dcat...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> lots of gunners slip OOB then try to get back in. It's a penalty in
>> the NFL, but it's not cheating. And those that glide down the field a
>> foot or two OOB may sneak down more quickly, but do not deserve to
>> have their careers jeopardized by meatheads like Alosi.
>
> this up. Allowing a player to run down the sidelines while out of bounds
> clearly gives him an advantage, because he can't be blocked while out of
> bounds without the blocker incurring a personal foul. A player who goes
> out of bounds should be required to get back on the field within 5
> yards, or be ineligible for that play. Then teams wouldn't be tempted to
> resort to sideline human walls and other silly tricks. Maybe there is
> already a penalty for staying out of bounds and it's not being enforced.
1 he was blocked or forced out of bounds which happens all the time for
the gunner
2 Another Dolphin (maybe the same guy, I'm not sure) was penalized in
the same game for staying out too long, so it is being enforced.
Grinch
> Tannenbaum is now saying that Alosi told the players to form a wall
> along the sidelines, and Mr. T has changed the suspension to indefinite.
> Tannenbaum apparently got this info from the involved players
> themselves. Now Alosi should be fired for insubordination, because he
> directly contravened a stated policy of both Tannenbaum and Rex that
> they do not coach or support this kind of tactic.
> --
> graybeard
The cover-up is always worse than the crime.
Westhoff is the world's best special teams coach, yet watching punt
coverage tapes a thousand times over he never notices how guys line up
on the sideline as those gunners run by? Tell me another one.
For that matter, Rex doesn't either? Rex doesn't know what the OC is
doing, doesn't know what special teams are doing ... what *does* he
know? :-)
The fact that they treated Alosi with consideration to being with --
letting him talk to the press, say it was all him just spontaneously
in bad moment, etc., was a tip-off that they were covering for him as
much as they could, because they knew damn well.
Alosi sticking his knee out to trip that guy was inexcusable. He
should take pain for that.
**But** as to the rest of it they shoulda said the truth, "The gunner
was out of bounds, how else was he there to be tripped? As long as the
league is going to ignore the rules and let gunners run the field out
of bounds it has to expect teams to respond by doing things like have
players line up on the sidelines. Everybody does both things, here's
film of more gunners running out of bounds without being penalized,
and other teams lining up on the sidelines. Let's start with the
Pats..."
Then the real issue would be addressed and hopefully fixed, and Alosi
could be judged in context.
Here's Matt Chatham. former Pats and Jets LBer on this....
~~~~
[...] the real story is a coach’s knee that moves a couple inches
while in the area he’s legally required to be, contacting Carroll who
… wait for it … isn’t?!
The point is Sal Alosi is having his job, livelihood, and good name
threatened because, at its core, there is a palpable fear of public
relations outrage from a mass audience that isn’t seeing what they’re
seeing.
Carroll heads out of bounds on the 20 yard-line with a wide outside
release to escape the double-team, grabs a Nathan’s with kraut from a
vendor, high-fives Jenn Sterger’s replacement, and re-enters when he-
damn-well-pleases before falling onto the 45 yard-line. In the absence
of Sal’s lapse, his angle would likely have carried him up near
midfield, 25-30 yards from where he started his tour of the
countryside. And the only thing on the subject of “fairness” we’re
discussing is a knee that traveled the length of the written word
“Meadowlands?” Really?
One guy makes a poor decision while acting on an immediately
regrettable impulse. The other is cheating in the game. Not Barry
Bonds-type stuff, but enough to the extent that if you’re going to
have a national discussion from the mount on “fairness,” you can’t
start by barely noticing what’s actually going on. It might help if
the analysts involved had picked up on the whole story. But instead
they immediately and recklessly hopped into the “Who’s the Villain”
game, which is never the right answer...
Steve Tasker, one of the NFL’s greatest all-time special-teamers
recently explained to ESPN.com, “If [the Jets] are coached to do that,
so what? Call a penalty on them. If a gunner is going to use the
sideline as a weapon, like I did, why wouldn’t you want to form a road
block?..."
This story has reached the redonkulous stage, but what’s most
disturbing, and simultaneously revealing, is how nearly every opinion
across the sports landscape seems to miss the most blatantly obvious
factual aspect of this drama: Carroll was trying to make a play, but
he was breaking a league rule....
Glenn Greenstein
marcman
> This story has reached the redonkulous stage, but what’s most
> disturbing, and simultaneously revealing, is how nearly every opinion
> across the sports landscape seems to miss the most blatantly obvious
> factual aspect of this drama: Carroll was trying to make a play, but
> he was breaking a league rule....
That's what Ray O'Hara has been saying, unwaveringly, from the get go.
Just sayin' . . .
Grinch
>
> - Show quoted text -
It couldn't have been Schott, the trip worked.
If it had been Schott the trip would have missed due to poor
execution, the player wall would've lacked purpose, and the whole
business would've lacked rhythm and tempo. :-)
Grinch
>
> > Tannenbaum is now saying that Alosi told the players to form a wall
> > along the sidelines, and Mr. T has changed the suspension to indefinite.
> > Tannenbaum apparently got this info from the involved players
> > themselves. Now Alosi should be fired for insubordination, because he
> > directly contravened a stated policy of both Tannenbaum and Rex that
> > they do not coach or support this kind of tactic.
> > --
> > graybeard
>
> The cover-up is always worse than the crime.
>
> Westhoff is the world's best special teams coach, yet watching punt
> coverage tapes a thousand times over he never notices how guys line up
> on the sideline as those gunners run by? Tell me another one.
Now Westhoff is saying the Pats do it.
So he knows from film what the Pats do, but not what his own guys do.
Very likely! :-)
> For that matter, Rex doesn't either? Rex doesn't know what the OC is
> doing, doesn't know what special teams are doing ... what *does* he
> know? :-)
> ....
papa.carl44
"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:on8kg65us7n49j0i1...@4ax.com...
>>the NFL, but it's not cheating. And those that glide down the field a
>>foot or two OOB may sneak down more quickly, but do not deserve to
>>have their careers jeopardized by meatheads like Alosi.
>
> this up. Allowing a player to run down the sidelines while out of bounds
> clearly gives him an advantage, because he can't be blocked while out of
> bounds without the blocker incurring a personal foul. A player who goes
> out of bounds should be required to get back on the field within 5
> yards, or be ineligible for that play. Then teams wouldn't be tempted to
> resort to sideline human walls and other silly tricks. Maybe there is
> already a penalty for staying out of bounds and it's not being enforced.
> graybeard
Good idea...but when you are ONE....and you have TWO keeping you from coming
back in bounds it is not that easy to do. I am surprised nobody has
acknowledged there are players keeping the gunner from coming back in to a
certain extent. What do they do? Put a side up like arena football? The
answere would be the players keeping the gunner out or blocking him would
only have that one shot to get him out...then the gunner MUST come back in
and it goes from there, if the gunner doesn't come back...he is out of the
play. But, you can't just demand a guy come back into play when two
opponents are prohibiting that. The logic says the blockers need to get on
with it because it becomes a numbers game then.
papa.carl44
"Grinch" <oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:320b0487-983c-4dcc...@n10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Very likely! :-)
No...Westhoff doesn't know, Rex doesn't know, Tanny doesn't know....Hell,
maybe Alosi should become the HC...at least he can get a few guys to do what
he wants them to do.....
MuahMan
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:28:55 -0500 "papa.carl44"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>
> >"graybeard" <graybe...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:on8kg65us7n49j0i1...@4ax.com...
> >> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 05:56:17 -0800 (PST) Tutor <dcat4...@yahoo.com>
>
> 1. They have already done away with the wedge on kick returns, maybe
> they should just require one on one blocking only.
>
> 2. All players from both teams who go out of bounds should be required
> to get back on the field of play within a specified distance/time.
>
> 3. If blockers prevent a player who is attempting to get back on the
> field from doing so, they should incur an interference penalty.
> --
> graybeard
Or the Jets could just stop cheating....
papa.carl44
"graybeard" <gray...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:28:55 -0500 "papa.carl44"
>
> 1. They have already done away with the wedge on kick returns, maybe
> they should just require one on one blocking only.
>
> 2. All players from both teams who go out of bounds should be required
> to get back on the field of play within a specified distance/time.
>
> 3. If blockers prevent a player who is attempting to get back on the
> field from doing so, they should incur an interference penalty.
> --
> graybeard
Could be...I think I posted somewhere else, that my recollection is the
"wall" thing was to keep guys from getting BACK past it....that wall would
open and close with the guy who ran out behind it. Another option would be
to really expand the size of the sideline....and keep everybody, including
coaches well behind a designated area.....and put into effect the rule you
suggest.