Dont forget NFL Network tonight at 9PM EST... Belichick Special

[Michael]

I wonder if BB will talk about SpyGate or if he agreed to the special
ONLY if that was not mentioned ???

[graybeard]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:50:42 -0700 (PDT), Michael <mjd...@verizon.net>
wrote:

>I wonder if BB will talk about SpyGate or if he agreed to the special
>ONLY if that was not mentioned ???

I thought this show was mostly about Belichick being miked up for a
whole season. I would be surprised if there are any heart-to-heart chats
between BB and an interviewer. I think this is the NFL Network's watered
down answer to Hard Knocks.
--
graybeard

[Papa Carl]

"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:8df262d7-4b15-4296...@k15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

>I wonder if BB will talk about SpyGate or if he agreed to the special
> ONLY if that was not mentioned ???

This show was way better than I expected. He's a little strange, but he
very much reminds me of one of the HC's I worked for. A whole career and 4
HC's...one I couldn't stand at all, the next was one of the best human
beings I ever met and a great coach, then a guy I really liked but not that
great a coach...then the guy that BB really reminds me of. An total
paradox, a contradiction...easy to get angry at, dislike at times, but
somehow always reels you back in and an absolute joy to coach with and work
for ONLY because we won and you learn so much. He has to be doing something
right to have the record he has. I particularly liked the part where he was
answering questions about the Giants and his relationship with Parcells.

[Señor Patriots]

On Sep 15, 3:50 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I wonder if BB will talk about SpyGate or if he agreed to the special
> ONLY if that was not mentioned ???

It wasn't spygate anyway. It was videogate. Spying is where you are
hiding while you do your work, and videography is where you just shoot
out in plain sight.

It makes no sense to spy out in plain sight. That is an oxymoron to
say that. That is what makes it a very strange case because you have
to wonder why Bill would do something like that. Anyway, all teams
videotape signals, and always have, and always will, but now it's just
regulated by their location (higher up and not right on the field.)
It's not cheating. It's part of the internecine warfare of the
sport. Much worse is part of the league's history, and nobody is
running around making a big deal out of it. Cripes, Lombardi used to
turn the hot water off in the visiting locker room when it was fifty
below zero out. Are we going to ax Lombardi's body of work? Hell no,
the guy was utilizing the common thinking of the culture called the
NFL.

The teams hire lip readers too. Lip reading is not cheating. It's
part of the culture. We really don't need or want a Nanny State to
regulate this stuff. It's completely ludicrous to regulate it. If
you're the coach, just take proper preparations and precautions
against lip reading, or other forms of signal theft. I'll bet there
are forms of signal theft that we never even dreamed of. Fine, go for
it. If you're the coach of the other team, protect your assets. It's
your job.

I don't like the idea of stealing play books though. To me there is a
line and that is going over the line. Everything north of that line
should not be regulated. The NFL is wrong to regulate videographer
positioning in the stadium. It should be done from any angle the
photographer likes. I'm a photographer, and I don't want anybody
telling me where I can't stand. I choose the location to stand by
instinct, not by some stupid rules. I am saying who the hell is the
NFL to regulate this? It's bordering on Nanny State and there is no
need to do that. Let the teams shoot from any location like they did
in the old days.

[Michael]

On Sep 16, 12:43 am, Señor Patriots <paul.lebl...@bluebottle.com>
wrote:

there is no way you can sanitize *Cameragage* with a history lesson
on lombardi’s shower room antics or who used too much stick-um.
belichick cheated. it was a clear cut violation that drew a historic
penalty from the league. there is no proof (because goodell destroyed
evidence) but i think the tapes that were destroyed included the
eagles superbowl walk through. the circumstantial evidence would be
the past habits of taping by bb, the self indictment of goodell's rush
to destroy evidence and the uncanny blitz pick-up by the patriots vs
the eagles in the superbowl. If it was just a case of the camera
being in an area that was not sanctioned, why destroy the
evidence ??? it really looked like goodell swept a big mess under the
carpet to spare the league a major embarrassment.

Probably BB could have won without cameragate the same way Nixon could
have won without Watergate, but it is part of BB’s legacy now. He’s
clearly very capable, but he’s also a bit of a dark horse.

[Michael]

On Sep 16, 12:00 am, "Papa Carl" <papa.c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message

papa... one of my favorite political figures to read about is nixon. a
paradox a contradiction and an enigma. great intelectual depth along
with a very complex personality. capable well beyond most of the
people around him... he was an introvert playing an extroverts game.
the arean that he chose to play in along with his drive frustrated him
to the point where he abandoned his early values. bb sort of reminds
me a bit of nixon.

[Papa Carl]

"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:dcec3a84-9996-4961...@a7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

I can see that.

[Papa Carl]

"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:b1242c0b-5110-4a37...@b10g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...

_____________________________________________________
He just seems to be a dark kind of person....I almost had the feeling the
assistant coaches were afraid to say anything at times....and that is not
unusual, I would guess more the standard in the game at many levels.

[MZ]

On Sep 16, 9:52 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> If it was just a case of the camera
> being in an area that was not sanctioned, why destroy the
> evidence ???

Where is your evidence that it was anything other than that?

Let me ask you this, Michael: Do you have any reason to believe that
Roger Goodell acts in a judicious, logical, and consistent manner
about anything? He comes off as one of the dumbest commissioners in
all of sports. You want to know why he ordered that the "evidence" be
destroyed? Probably because he's not a bright guy, and didn't
anticipate the PR ramifications. Do you honestly expect any different
from this guy?

> Probably BB could have won without cameragate the same way Nixon could
> have won without Watergate, but it is part of BB’s legacy now.  He’s
> clearly very capable, but he’s also a bit of a dark horse.

I guess Raheem Morris better not plan on winning any super bowls
anytime soon either.

Anyway, given that Belichick's best offenses came in the years after
"spygate", I think it's unlikely that they were a key factor. People
were angry at the time, but we've had several years now to see what he
could put together without the aid of videotaping. I think the
results demonstrate that the whole thing was a non-issue.

[Michael]

On Sep 16, 3:33 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
> On Sep 16, 9:52 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > If it was just a case of the camera
> > being in an area that was not sanctioned, why destroy the
> > evidence ???
>
> Where is your evidence that it was anything other than that?

I dont have any as I pointed out... I used the word *circumstantial*

> Let me ask you this, Michael:  Do you have any reason to believe that
> Roger Goodell acts in a judicious, logical, and consistent manner
> about anything?  He comes off as one of the dumbest commissioners in
> all of sports.  You want to know why he ordered that the "evidence" be
> destroyed?  Probably because he's not a bright guy, and didn't
> anticipate the PR ramifications.  Do you honestly expect any different
> from this guy?

Goodell has tripped all over himself. I agree... I was simply not
comfortable with the way he rushed to destroy evidence. It opens the
door to speculation.

> > Probably BB could have won without cameragate the same way Nixon could
> > have won without Watergate, but it is part of BB’s legacy now.  He’s
> > clearly very capable, but he’s also a bit of a dark horse.
>
> I guess Raheem Morris better not plan on winning any super bowls
> anytime soon either.

What does Morris have to do with cameragate in a strict sense ???

> Anyway, given that Belichick's best offenses came in the years after
> "spygate", I think it's unlikely that they were a key factor.  People
> were angry at the time, but we've had several years now to see what he
> could put together without the aid of videotaping.  I think the
> results demonstrate that the whole thing was a non-issue.

Belichick's best offense as far as all the media experts were saying
was last season. Unstoppable... Until BB tangled with a coach with
some actual brainpower. The Pats remind me of the German army circa
1939. They looked great fighting agaisnt opposition that did not want
to fight, or were fighting with horse calvalry. As soon as they ran
up against well equiped and motivated opposition, they didnt look too
swift.

[MZ]

On Sep 16, 4:20 pm, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Sep 16, 3:33 pm, MZ <for...@mdz.no-ip.org> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 16, 9:52 am, Michael <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > I guess Raheem Morris better not plan on winning any super bowls
> > anytime soon either.
>
> What does Morris have to do with cameragate in a strict sense ???

I referenced Morris because he was recently caught cheating. It was
tongue-in-cheek, though not really. :)

> Belichick's best offense as far as all the media experts were saying
> was last season. Unstoppable... Until BB tangled with a coach with
> some actual brainpower.  The Pats remind me of the German army circa
> 1939.  They looked great fighting agaisnt opposition that did not want
> to fight, or were fighting with horse calvalry.  As soon as they ran
> up against well equiped and motivated opposition, they didnt look too
> swift.

The '10 offense was good, but the '07 offense broke most relevant
records. The Giants stifled them, this is true, but it's hard to make
the argument that the '01, '03, or '04 offenses were better. The Pats
have simply been a better offensive team post-'06 than pre-'07.

[Michael]

if their defense could get it together, they would win in the playoffs
again. i'm not sold on the fat albert line or the lb's they have
now. spike and mayo are good, but they dont have a complete
defense. IMHO, the seymour-warren-wilfork line backed up by the
vrabel-bruschi-jr. crew was half the reason they won championships.
their defense for the past four years has been a never ending work in
progress...

[MZ]

I think you're mostly right, but I think the problems on D started
before some of these personnel issues. I think their good defenses
left with Romeo.

I agreed with you about fat albert until I saw him play Monday night.
Guy makes Wilfork look like Kenyon Coleman. I thought he was one of
the biggest stories of the night, even though the media isn't talking
about him. On the other side of the coin, Shaun Ellis looked
pedestrian every snap he was on the field.

[oldn...@mindspring.com]

Don't get NFL Network where I am but there are a number of clips at NFL.com at

http://prod.www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d822469c5/A-Football-Life-Meet-Bill-Belichick

One notable thing, at least in these clips: the guy never raises his voice.

In one he actually tells his players: "If you make a good play it is all right to feel a little emotion about it. Think how much work and preparation went into being able to make that play. It's OK to feel good, show a little positive feeling about it."

!!! :-)

Coaching is maybe the last profession where people have license to indulge themselves by screaming and cursing at others. After Lombardi, a lot of people took it as practically being a job requirement -- although Lombardi himself said "coaching is teaching" and that his own hot temper was a personality trait that he had to work to control and direct because it could get in the way.

Landry was the Iceman, Walsh was The Professor, they talked their teams to championships. From this it looks like Belichick is in their camp.

"Rah! Rah! Scream! Scream! Curse! Curse!", *not* the key trait in coaching champions.

[Papa Carl]

<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:6098161.493.1316289265343.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnk41...

___________________________________________________________________________________

Could not agree more. Young coaches get emotional...mainly because they
don't know enough and that is where they played the game or saw the game
from. As a coach matures and if they are serious and learn, and learn and
learn more, they shut up and teach. I always felt when you see a high
school team running wind sprints at the end of every practice it is a sing
of the fact the coach has nothing left to say or do. Time is valuable, and
can't be wasted on a practice field...yes, you have to keep them in shape,
but you can do that during the course of practice and during warm ups.
Every minute means something...use it...BB looks like that kind of coach, it
is very, very focused. I loved his comments about guys staying after to
work on skills together...that is a must. Good players learn something and
then want to reinforce it themselves before they leave that field and go
home.

[oldn...@mindspring.com]

"Jets WR Derrick Mason reacts to exchange with Bill Belichick in NFL Network documentary"

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2011/09/jets_wr_derrick_mason_reacts_t.html

[Michael]

Haynesworth got a 100mm contract at one point, so there has to be
somthng there, I would guess. If he plas as good as he has in the
past it has he potential of being the best fa move of the season

[Papa Carl]

<oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:11342208.637.1316299090095.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnk41...

> "Jets WR Derrick Mason reacts to exchange with Bill Belichick in NFL
> Network documentary"
>
> http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2011/09/jets_wr_derrick_mason_reacts_t.html

Mason should keep his freakin mouth shut. Do something..play football
first. He looks horrendous to me and he looks like a guy going through the
motions, don't see much effort.