NFL Weight Limit ???
Michael
With guys getting bigger all the time... or... wanting to get
bigger... it has a nasty habit of making hgh and other fun stuff
irresistible. we got guys nearing 400 lbs now. soon 400 could be an
average and not the peak.
what would you say to putting a weigh limit on players now ??? do we
want 450 pound guys in ten years or so ???
papa.carl44
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ffd64804-597b-4cf4...@a10g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
Michael...I've thought about this. Somebody needs to take a very serious
look at the average life span of these guys too. They are kids, lured by
dollar signs and fame and make decisions that shorten their lives by
decades. I expect I'll hear all the stuff about how much the make etc. It
is still a very, very poor decision and one that is fairly understandable
for a young person in their position to make. The size is a problem. Sam
Huff would not even be a good sized running back today. Roosevelt Brown and
Roosevelt Geier of the glory days Giants couldn't even play the game at
their sizes. And I've been around enough of it, first very involved with
the game and then working with young people in behavioral healthcare after
coaching to know how much of the stuff you are talking about goes on. When
someone fails a steroid test in the NFL...they are as much as failing an IQ
test...you have to really screw up to get caught. I'm convinced a lot of
discreet juicing goes on at many levels of the game, including some where
most have no idea it's happening. There are questions you raise here on
many levels....and, it made it an entirely different game.
Keith Keller
> I got another one of my *ideas*
Heh...
> what would you say to putting a weigh limit on players now ??? do we
> want 450 pound guys in ten years or so ???
What about an average weight limit? So no single player would have to
come in under a certain weight, but (for example) the league could
require the average weight of any five offensive linemen be less than a
certain limit. Some teams could reach the limit by keeping all their
linemen fairly close to the average; others could have two or three
larger players and two or three smaller players; others still could go
crazy and have one large lineman and four significantly smaller ones.
See, you're not the only crazy one. :)
I've actually thought about this more in the context of the NHL, not the
NFL, where it'd be easier to enforce average weight limits--since most
of a game roster gets at least a few minutes of ice time, it's harder to
circumvent average rules. It'd be much harder for the NFL, where you
could imagine signing a 100lb lightweight and sitting him at the end of
the bench just to bring your average down.
--keith
--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
Michael
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:ffd64804-597b-4cf4...@a10g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I got another one of my *ideas*
>
> > With guys getting bigger all the time... or... wanting to get
> > bigger... it has a nasty habit of making hgh and other fun stuff
> > irresistible. we got guys nearing 400 lbs now. soon 400 could be an
> > average and not the peak.
>
> > what would you say to putting a weigh limit on players now ??? do we
> > want 450 pound guys in ten years or so ???
>
> Michael...I've thought about this. Somebody needs to take a very serious
> look at the average life span of these guys too. They are kids, lured by
> dollar signs and fame and make decisions that shorten their lives by
> decades. I expect I'll hear all the stuff about how much the make etc.
For every one kid that makes it on to a pro team for a few years, how
many kids dont even make it out of the college ranks even though they
f'ed themselves up with phd trying to grab at the brass ring ??? 32
teams with 53 man rosters = only 1695 people on the planet playing pro
ball. Play the lottery instead.
JKConey
"Michael" <mjd...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ffd64804-597b-4cf4...@a10g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
I'd love to see them get bigger and stronger and more juiced up than
ever. 1000 lb Walter Hudson's on the lines vs 1200 lb Manuel Uribe trying
to catch a Michael Vick type would be very entertaining.
Grinch
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
If only Wahoo McDaniel had been on steroids!
"Waaahoooooo!!!"
papa.carl44
On Jan 11, 2:36 pm, "papa.carl44" <papadotc...@nospamverizon.net>
wrote:
> "Michael" <mjd1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:ffd64804-597b-4cf4...@a10g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I got another one of my *ideas*
>
> > With guys getting bigger all the time... or... wanting to get
> > bigger... it has a nasty habit of making hgh and other fun stuff
> > irresistible. we got guys nearing 400 lbs now. soon 400 could be an
> > average and not the peak.
>
> > what would you say to putting a weigh limit on players now ??? do we
> > want 450 pound guys in ten years or so ???
>
> Michael...I've thought about this. Somebody needs to take a very serious
> look at the average life span of these guys too. They are kids, lured by
> dollar signs and fame and make decisions that shorten their lives by
> decades. I expect I'll hear all the stuff about how much the make etc.
For every one kid that makes it on to a pro team for a few years, how
many kids dont even make it out of the college ranks even though they
f'ed themselves up with phd trying to grab at the brass ring ??? 32
teams with 53 man rosters = only 1695 people on the planet playing pro
ball. Play the lottery instead.
A few years back a study was done with a cross section of athletes, all
sports and including Olympians. The results were annonymous. The topic was
steroids and performance enhancing drugs. One question was phrased as if a
"pill" were available that would make you the best in your sport and put
your performance at the top would you take it, even if you knew there was a
risk it could seriously shorten your life. Overwhelmingly the answer was
"Yes." That is the nature of competition at many levels. The kid trying to
be his best is doing just that and will do what it takes to do his best if
the method suggested by many is chemical enhancement. That is a fact and
suspect you don't think it exists. I am positive it does.
papa.carl44
"Grinch" <oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4c14723f-101d-484a...@i41g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
"Waaahoooooo!!!"
Yeah...he might have been half as good as Sam Huff :-)
Michael
>
> - Show quoted text -
for a young athlete under competitive duress, acting wisely is
impossible
Grinch
Not on the pros, it's pointless and counterproductive.
The pros make mountains of money and are tended by the world's best
doctors and trainers and nutritionists.
The problem is the thousands of kids below the pros in college and
high schools, etc. who have no chance whatsoever of making the pros,
and get none of the expert medical/training/nutritional attention
while bulking up to 300+ pounds while developing all the bad habits
they will keep forever for the rest of their shortened lives.
But these kids will *still* bulk up just as they are now to make the
pros, even if the pros put in some weight limit at 350lbs or
something, because that will still be the way to make the pros.
So the weight limit would have to imposed by college and high schools,
etc.
But it won't ever happen, because as we've already mentioned, *they*
are functionally pros too. At least the coaches and adminstrators who
make huge money off of them are. And those coaches and adminstrators
want to keep those kids bulking (and juicing) just as they do now, to
make more money for themselves.
Did you see the BCS National *Amateur* Championship Game last night?
How many times did the commentators say, "The Ducks just can't handle
the bigger stronger Auburn line."?
Did you see the Auburn side celebrating after the game? And the
Oregon people getting ready to slash their wrists?
What message did every college coach and AD and president and big
alumni booster receive from that?
Multiply at every level down -- Texas high school divisional
championships, etc. -- and everywhere coaches are trying to get better-
paying jobs and players trying to get recruited by teams at higher
levels.
"We're going to make our players worse, just for their health". It
will never be enacted -- and if it ever is, it will be in a way they
make sure can be corruptly gamed liked the 1,000 other "amateur"
rules.
So while I'm entirely with you in principle ... good luck with that!
papa.carl44
Very good analysis
papa.carl44
I quite agree....kind of scary, but I think you are right.
papa.carl44
"Grinch" <oldn...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3848c00c-97fd-4d66...@f20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
As long as a guy can still do what he's supposed to do...run and
execute...they will never let them get smaller.
papa.carl44
"John C TX" <johnc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cbd6286b-8d9b-425f...@fm22g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>> I quite agree....kind of scary, but I think you are right.
>
> rather have 270 # fattie as opposed to a kid that is 220 # and can
> move. I can think of a HS down here that every year pre-season you
> would here about average weight on the OL & then get their ass handed
> to them by a school with 200 centers & guards because they were better
> football players.
Yeah...I've seen stuff like that. But I've also seen some situations where
it is very obvious the HS kids are juicing. Plus, after I left coaching and
went into behavioral healthcare I worked in an adolescent unit of a psych
hospital. We had a few of the cases that "went wrong".....some guys can get
away with using the stuff, others can't and at times those results are
horrendous. It is a lot easier to get than a lot of folks think it is.
I did see a fantastic HS team this year though...lots of tall and big kids
and all of them could move. They were just flat out natrual, a few of the
stereotype "noseguards" short, squat and very tough...but a lot of just
very well conditioned kids...and in young people you can tell the
difference, they look their age. These kids won a state championship for
their coach who was retiring after a career of 40 years at one school. He
is 79 years old and never had a losing season. I worked for him once, a
very good man.
Grinch
wrote:
> "John C TX" <johnctxj...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:cbd6286b-8d9b-425f...@fm22g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
I saw some film of Lombardi's Packers recently and thought, couldn't
help myself, "high school team".
Not that they didn't play great -- but, remember, their linemen were
all 240 pounds. The looked like a high school team. And by the
standards of 50 years later, they were really slow too. You get to
watching all the movement in today's game, and you think, "why are
they so slow?"
I'd bet that if a time machine could match them up any good college
team today would crush those Packers. Not even a top college team,
just a competitive one. (I don't want to think about a top high
school team.) I mean literally crush them: 300+ pound linemen with
21st century strength training techniques against 240 lb guys, no
matter how well coached (plus all the 21st century trained backs and
WRs running past them).
One wonders where it will ever end. I mean the limits of physical
possibility. (With and without drugs.)
papa.carl44
Really Agree! Do you remember how Rosevelt Grier and Rosevelt Brown were
considered these huge guys? Neither of them were by any standard today.
Sam Huff was not even the size of a running back. I played in college from
1962 through 1966. I can remember when the nose guard from Alabama had a
write up in Sports Illustrated...he was tough, quick all that good
stuff....and I remember my position coach telling me he was moving me to
nose on some defenses and that the Alabama guy and I were the same size :-)
And both playing at or slightly over 200 pounds...in reality, they listed me
as that and I needed to eat a whole lot ot keep it...I was usually around
190. Still, it was not uncommon at the time. The HS team I saw had an
awful lot of very tall kids on it...really stood out. When you watch the
old school wide receivers they look so slow and almost unathletic. NOT the
late 60's guys...the old school by my terms :-)