OT: I wonder if Tom Really believes what he says here.
Glenn Greenstein
"I don't think I ever influenced a call"
Tom must not pay too much attention to what he does on the field.
Brady more than any QB i can recall asks for calls be they down field
or on him and he gets some ridiculous ones as well. I don't recall
what team it was against but a player went by him low by his knee, I
don't think he ever touched Brady. Brady turns to the official and
points at the player and a flag comes out. This was seconds after the
player went by him.
In reality, what Brady said was motivation was just how it is. Funny
the truth motivates. Brady and the Pats should be highly motivated the
rest of the season since I am sure players say this to him all the
time on the field.
MZ
> http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4637624
>
> "I don't think I ever influenced a call"
>
> Tom must not pay too much attention to what he does on the field.
> Brady more than any QB i can recall asks for calls be they down field
> or on him and he gets some ridiculous ones as well. I don't recall
> what team it was against but a player went by him low by his knee, I
> don't think he ever touched Brady. Brady turns to the official and
> points at the player and a flag comes out. This was seconds after the
> player went by him.
Suggs hit Brady in the legs, which is a penalty now. I don't understand
why you think a flag shouldn't have been thrown.
I also don't understand why Suggs went low there. He wasn't blocked, he
wasn't falling. He just decided to dive at the QB's knees. He should
have been fined for intent to injure.
Glenn Greenstein
If we are talking about the same play, Suggs never touched him.
MZ
Glenn Greenstein
No evidence of contact there. It looks like Brady slipped it to me.
MZ
No evidence of NO contact there. It looks like he hit him in the leg.
But can you offer any explanation for why Suggs went low on him there?
Glenn Greenstein
Marc,you may not believe me but I'm being objective here. If he hit
him in the leg why was Brady still able to stand. He spun away from
the contact.
MZ
So you're saying that if he touched his leg, Brady would have fallen?
Glenn, you know that makes no sense. Players get hit all the time.
Sometimes they fall, sometimes they don't. Either way, he wasn't hit
hard. But he only has to be hit for them to call it. Ditto if he hit
his helmet instead. I'll defer to the official who was standing 5 feet
away to judge whether or not contact was made.
I don't like the rule, personally. But it's the rule. And lord knows
they've called it against the Pats defense enough this year.
But I'd still love to know why Suggs went low. Going low on a QB isn't
advantageous to your team. The point is to hit him high, either near
the arms or with your hands up to knock the ball down. Going low on a
QB makes absolutely no sense at all ... unless you're trying to injure
him or you're trying to make him afraid. In either case, Suggs should
have been fined.
Glenn Greenstein
What i saw is a QB that saw the hit coming and had time to side step
it and if he did hit him, he barely grazed his leg. Why he went low
who knows. Maybe he lost his balance, maybe he's a dirt bag.
Ian White
> On Nov 10, 3:18 pm, MZ <m...@nospam.void> wrote:
>> Glenn Greenstein wrote:
[snip]
> Yep, we're talking about the same play.
> > >>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnmGSMccDuU
[snip]
>> I don't like the rule, personally. But it's the rule. And lord knows
>> they've called it against the Pats defense enough this year.
>>
>> But I'd still love to know why Suggs went low. Going low on a QB isn't
>> advantageous to your team. The point is to hit him high, either near
>> the arms or with your hands up to knock the ball down. Going low on a
>> QB makes absolutely no sense at all ... unless you're trying to injure
>> him or you're trying to make him afraid. In either case, Suggs should
>> have been fined.
>
> What i saw is a QB that saw the hit coming and had time to side step
> it and if he did hit him, he barely grazed his leg. Why he went low
> who knows. Maybe he lost his balance, maybe he's a dirt bag.
What I saw is a QB that may or may not have been hit, but calling for
the flag. If Brady says he's never influenced a flag calling, then he's
lying.
--
Ian
Glenn Greenstein
wrote:
Ian, thank you. We got a bit side tracked on the issue but I think you
hit upon the real issue, Brady attempting to influence and succeeding
at it.
MZ
He calls for a flag about 10 times a game. PI, roughing, neutral zone
infractions, whatever. He rarely gets it. Seriously, do you guys
really believe his squawking had any influence on the official's
decision? If so, why doesn't it have any influence in the dozens of
other times he does it?
Harlan Lachman
MZ <ma...@nospam.void> wrote:
Mark, I think some squawkers get immediate relief because of their
credibility. I think some squawkers get make up calls because they have
enough credibility to create doubt in an official.
Whether you think Brady and his tutu fill that description or not, since
I try not to watch many Pat games, I cannot comment if you are right or
wrong.
But, to use your words, seriously, anyone who refuses to acknowledge
that some players and coaches influence officials, often impacting
critical calls determining games, is oblivious to what is going on.
Harlan
MZ
Oh, I think what you say is true. As I said in my response to John
yesterday, these are human beings (players) that work with other human
beings (officials), and personalities are certainly going to influence
how these people operate. A guy who's a total dick is less likely to
get favors than a real likable guy. That's just the way the world works.
But the implication here is that Brady called for a flag and got it.
The rationale is that the ref threw the flag after Brady squawked. But
the reality is that Brady doesn't shut the hell up on the field. He's
always yelling, and nobody ever throws a flag. So, using the same logic
that Glenn is using, am I to conclude that when the officials don't
throw flags it's BECAUSE he squawks?
The fact of the matter is that the new rule changes, like them or not,
specify that what Suggs did (assuming contact was made) is a penalty.
Maybe they don't call it half the time, I don't know. But, regardless,
it's a penalty. It's sort of like the holding calls that Michael saw in
the Steelers game -- maybe they don't call them half the time, but if
they DID call it, can we really complain about the call? A penalty's a
penalty.
Harlan Lachman
MZ <ma...@nospam.void> wrote:
Two things.
One. Again being ignorant because I only watch Brady playing the Jets,
it could be that the constant squawking is what gets the officials to
throw him an occasional bone.
Two, you know what they say about assume "(assuming contact was made)".
I think the point made by Glenn, IIRC, which is a dubious proposition,
is that there was no evidence of any contact that he could see.
h
Johnny Morongo
Are you then admitting that Tommy Boy is a perpetual cry baby? And here
I thought that this was a MAN's game. Silly me.
MZ
Harlan, I don't know why the default is "no contact". It looked to me
like contact was made. There's about as much evidence supporting his
point as there is mine. So why are we defaulting to "no contact"?
The ref, who was standing right there, evidently saw contact. Even if
he was throwing Brady a bone, I doubt he would have the balls to do it
on a play where there was no contact. So, I think the one piece of
evidence that we have (if we assume the video to be inconclusive) is
that the official thought there was contact.
[BTW, I think the video clearly shows contact being made in the left
knee...it wasn't much, but Brady's motion away from the contact isn't
fluid, meaning there was an external force at play.]
MZ
Yeah. I think he's...annoyingly vocal.
But if you guys are RIGHT, and it's working...then he would be stupid
not to be a cry baby.
> And here
> I thought that this was a MAN's game. Silly me.
You're living in the past. You know what's even more annoying than
whiny QBs? WRs that get up after every drop and motion for a PI flag.
Johnny Morongo
I hear ya on that one. WRs are THE Prima Donnas of football.
Ian White
How about a new rule "Any player calling for a flag immediately negates
the flag", that ought to stop it.
*** Ignoring the more obvious "simply correctly enforcing the
unsportsmanlike conduct rule" ***
Now, what's Mike Pereira's eMail addy? ;)
--
Ian
Glenn Greenstein
When it comes to roughing calls,.I would bet he gets a lot more than
say Carson Palmer does.
MZ
I think he has more than Palmer, but not as many as Trent Edwards.
papa.carl44
"MZ" <ma...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:4L2dnS0TTNUvhGbX...@giganews.com...
MZ is right...if it works, you would be crazy to not do it. Even in
coaching at the high school level you learn what refs can be gotten to or
intimidated by a lot of verbal stuff going on. You don't let the kids do it
at that level because it would be an instant ejection, obviously. However,
some refs would begin to show a definite trend the way you wanted them to go
if you did it right. Others were a danger and you knew you better say
nothing to. When you were a team that won a lot you either got refs who cut
you all kinds of breaks because they figured you were some very good coaches
etc. or they tried to take it out on you and really put it to you. Once I
was heading back to the field after half time in a game that was much closer
than it should have been ( we were upsetting someone), I stopped in a men's
room next to the locker room used by the refs and overheard a conversation
about how "I'm not letting them pull this off, blah, blah blah"....we got
out on the field, I walked over to the guy, smiled, talked about good game,
nice day bs and called him by his first name, then I quoted what I had
heard. Maintaining a big smile. He turned pale white, and we got no calls
or flags out of him the entire second half....my only point is these people
are humans, no matter how "professional" they are supposed to be, and they
are subject to all the foibles of humanity. :-)