Star-Ledger: Giants running wrong plays on the ground
DoctorElefant
From Giants beat writer Mike Garafolo:
<<The Giants are running the wrong plays on the ground.
There, I said it. I’ve been hearing rumblings of that for a while now.
All season, in fact. But I was reluctant to give them that out. It’s
about blocking it up and running hard. That’s what gets you big
yardage.
But after watching this team Thursday night and looking over the game
again Friday morning, I’m convinced a major problem is they’re trying
to go too wide and not straight ahead. Running backs coach Jerald
Ingram said a lot of issues for Brandon Jacobs early in the season
were the play calls to the outside that had him stopping and starting.
Well, they’re still making those calls and they don’t have Derrick
Ward around to run them. Plus, this offensive line would like to start
knocking people off the ball more often instead of these finesse runs.
The worst one, to me, was after a 13-yard completion on their second
offensive play of the second half. It was their longest play of the
game at that point and it had come off an interception by Terrell
Thomas that finally had them feeling good. So what did they do? They
ran Jacobs wide on a stretch play with a lead blocker that went for a
loss of 2 yards. Three plays later, Jacobs lost 3 yards on a run wide
to the left side.
Starting with their next game against the Cowboys, the Giants need to
start being more physical and straight ahead in the running game. They
need to get after their opposing fronts. Now. And start being more
effective in the running game. Now. To set up their passing game. Now.
And I’m not the only one who feels that way. Trust me.>>
Source:
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2009/11/a_look_back_at_the_ny_giants_t.html
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DocE
"The future ain't what it used to be." -Yogi Berra
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DoctorElefant
Ralph Vacchiano from the Daily News says the same thing with a bit
more detail. Gilbride leads his list of "goats" here:
<<1. Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride — If the Giants were
down 21-0 five minutes into the game I might have understood this game
plan. But they were never more than a touchdown away from being right
in the game until the fourth quarter. Yet Gilbride - possibly with the
help of a few Eli Manning audibles - called 44 pass plays and 15 runs.
That is a stunning lack of balance for a team that wants to be 50-50
and wants to emphasize the run. And even when he calls runs, they’re
not the right ones. Remember RBs coach Jerald Ingram saying during the
bye week that the problem with RB Brandon Jacobs was that he was being
asked to run stretch plays and sweeps that he was ill-suited to run?
And remember how he said the Giants were going to commit to running
him more “downhill” or straight-ahead? A few days later, Gilbride
seemed surprised by that candid remark and he’s coaching like he
doesn’t agree. They’re running Jacobs on far too many stretch plays to
the outside that predictably result in loss of yardage or, at best
just a couple of yards. He gets no momentum, which he’d get from
running straight ahead. For a bad example, 5 ½ minutes into the second
half and the Giants are driving. They’ve got a 1st-and-10 at the
Broncos 24. What do they do? They run a stretch left where Jacobs
can’t find a hole, loses his forwards momentum and loses three yards.
The drive stalls and a touchdown turns into a field goal. So really it
should be no surprised that he got only 27 yards on his 11 carries.
Maybe he would’ve done better if the Giants hadn’t abandoned the run
like they were down by 57 points. Then again, with those plays,
probably not.
Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/#ixzz0Y939Z0WR
Fritz
>
> - Show quoted text -
Doc, one of the New York radio hosts brought out yesterday that many
of the Giant players aren't happy with the playcalling. Sounds like
there's mutiny in the air. As much as I dislike Gilbride when I hear
shit like this I don't like it. It's a sign that there are bigger
internal problems brewing.
Optimus Prime
Gilbride the fool's two favor formations: shotgun on short yardage
situations, and running wide with power back Jacobs.
hatsnbats
This problem should have been nipped in the bud a long time ago. Doc's
posts suggest that the beat writers have known what we've been
bitching about for quite some time and are finally starting to chirp
because the Gitanic is going down in the deep part of the Secaucus
swamp.
Hats N Bats
--
Remove the 5s to e-mail
NY Giants 2007 Super Bowl Champions!
IommiRULES
>
> - Show quoted text -
I dunno what Ralph is harping about, in fact from my veiw the finesse
running plays are the ONLY plays that seem to gain yardage. But in the
end, if you do not block and you have people hitting our backs before
they get started, any running play is gonna suck. Last I checked TC
and Gilbride were not playing RG and RT....Seubert and Deihl are.
Bottom line is this:
If the offense didn't single handedly win vs Atlanta and Dallas, this
team would be 4-6 right now.
And I have mentioned countless times.... if you guys REALLY want a
change, then you better hope Coughlin gets fired, He runs the
offensive show. Gilbride leaving would make little or no difference
either way unless the new O coordinator trashed Coughlins system and
installed his own.
IommiRULES
>
> - Show quoted text -
That would be LG and LT of course.
I guess as an ole defensive lineman I still see the offense in a
mirror image.
IommiRULES
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oh another correction.... make that 4-7.
Killed to many brain cells so far this weekend!
DoctorElefant
Yes. Gilbride is stubborn. He wants to throw, and he's got his own
Manning so there is no ground play that interests him.
He wants to be Don Coryell, Mike Martz, and Bill Walsh rolled into
one. This is nothing new. He was a chuck-and-duck guy from way back.
The reason Buddy Ryan attacked him years ago when they with Houston
was because he refused to run the ball when he was supposed to be
working the clock and Buddy's defense had to keep limping back on the
field after clock-stopping incomplete passes. He was with Coughlin
when the Jaguars franchise started; they threw like crazy with
Brunell. When he was in Pittsburgh, he tried to build a deep passing
game around Kordell Stewart, complete with scripted game plans. They
managed to give The Chin a 6-10 season. When he was with Buffalo, he
had Bledsoe who threw an ungodly 600 times in 2002, but there was to
be no winning record in Gilbride's 2 years with the Bills.
When he became OC of the Giants, you figured he'd have to run some
because that's what the Giants were good at, and you figured the
personnel would demand it. Well, he ran, until he started thinking he
could throw again. In the playoffs, he had Spagnuolo's defense to bail
him out when his passing attack sputtered. And how many times did Eli
thread the needle to a covered receiver in those playoffs? We don't
talk about it, but he did a lot of that in the 2007 post-season. If a
couple of those passes had been less than perfect, we'd have no
trophy.
In 2008, I was finally happy with the guy for most of the year as that
was probably his only time where there really was a run-pass balance,
but then in games late in the season, some in the wind, and when the
passing game was terrible (e.g vs Philly and Dallas) he just kept
passing.
This year, it's become an epidemic. It's pretty bad when the
sportswriters are even chiming in and the offensive lineman are
frustrated.
The worst part is that Coughlin isn't going to do anything about it.
He talks about "balance" in the run/pass ratio but there isn't any and
I doubt there will be, especially with the injuries to the running
backs.
Now, I've never called for Gilbride's head, but when it seems a guy
would rather pass than win, it is very disturbing.
And to those who think we are better off passing, just look at the 1-5
stretch we are on. Let's at least try power running. We can't get
worse.
number6
> Yes. Gilbride is stubborn. He wants to throw, and he's got his own
> Manning so there is no ground play that interests him.
>
With Tiki and Jake ... You'd figure you'd love the running game ...
> Now, I've never called for Gilbride's head, but when it seems a guy
> would rather pass than win, it is very disturbing.
You know I'm feeling that way ... like a salesman who has in his bonus
contract for volume of sales ... so he sells everything at cost ... no
profit for the company ... but he met his sales goal for bonus ...
> And to those who think we are better off passing, just look at the 1-5
> stretch we are on. Let's at least try power running. We can't get
> worse.
I think we are much better off passing ... but not how we are doing
it ... I note a large absence of ... play action passing ... quick
pitches to the RB ... effective motion ... adding these to the
playbook more will make the passing game better ... Our offense is
solved by the opponents ... very little that they are not prepared for
or can see ... I think they can say ... we want the Giants to run
left ... so they show a defense that they know demands us to run
left ...
Optimus Prime
I was laughing when the NFL Network guys said, "Coughling wanted a
balance offense, let's see how Gilbride does" and then they proceeded
to show that the first 33 plays are 24 passes and 9 runs, and then
they asked: "Where's the balance?" LOL
Anyway, seriously, I never thought Gilbride ran. In 2007 and 2008
most of the "runs" are in the 4th quarter when the Giants have a
comfortable lead and he's just running out the clock. Go check, all
of those games were supposed to be "balance" on paper but the last
10-12 plays are running plays because the Giants have the lead.
This season his ass is exposed because the Giants don't have the lead
and he doesn't have the luxury of running out the clock to show his
pass happy idiocracy.
Finally, I really don't mind it if he knows HOW to be a pass-happy OC.
His passing plays are a joke. Too many fucking shotguns. Ask any
defensive OC and player, when you show the other side that you're
going to pass and only pass that makes their fucking job that much
easier. It tells the DL to let loose and get to the QB, it tells the
LB to drop back into zone, and it tells the secondary to get ready.
The DL doesn't have to play containment, the LBs doesn't have lose a
step towards the line, and the secondary doesn't have to worry about
supporting the run. Gilbride's a joke.
Optimus Prime
wrote:
What amazes me is that if he is really a bad loser like Doc has
spelled out his career to be, why does he still have a job?
DoctorElefant
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:48:00 -0800 (PST), number6 <snumb...@aol.com>
I didn't intend to make him out to be a total bum. He was in charge of
some feared offenses, particularly in his seasons with Houston. But
he's sure convinced me he doesn't like to run. That's crazy when you
look at the Giants potential in that department. All 3 running backs
averaged over 5 yards per carry last season. And even this season,
with a very unbalanced attack, heavily tilted toward passing, they are
still 9th in the NFL in rushing.
ftp...@hotfoot.com
Stop watching the game through a mirror. The RG's name is Snee, the
RT is McKenzie. Seubert and Diehl are on the left side ...
On to another consideration:
If the Giants consistently let the play clock run down to 1 or 2
before snapping, how hard is it for the opposing defense to figure out
the snap count?
My son-in-law noticed it first, then we watch two offensive series
where the play clock was less than 4 for EVERY snap. Worse yet, this
was late in the game where time was of the essence. WTF?
IommiRULES
I think they have to simplify things. From what i've read the Giants a
lot of times send in 2 plays to the huddle, Eli has to call two plays
in the huddle, then he has to pick which one he wants once he reads
the defense. That's a lot of shit for 30 seconds.