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With this pick, the Denver Broncos select, the next Jamarcus Russell

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SEC Soft Scheduler

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Apr 30, 2010, 1:02:38 AM4/30/10
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Tebow.

Another NFL experiment, another failure from the SEC.

Ray OHara

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Apr 30, 2010, 2:07:33 AM4/30/10
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"SEC Soft Scheduler" <lightw...@sec.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D69E03...@94.75.214.90...

> Tebow.
>
> Another NFL experiment, another failure from the SEC.
>

we'll see.
to equate Russel with Tebow says you know squat about either player.


Cleatarrior

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Apr 30, 2010, 1:47:23 PM4/30/10
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On 4/29/2010 10:02 PM, SEC Soft Scheduler wrote:
> Tebow.
>
> Another NFL experiment, another failure from the SEC.
>
Even that "failure" Grossman got the Bears into the SB.

Nunya Bidnits

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Apr 30, 2010, 3:03:03 PM4/30/10
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"Cleatarrior" <cleat...@foot.invaild> wrote in message
news:hrf52u$pd6$4...@news.datemas.de...

Did you really mean to imply that Tebow might be Ronald McDaniels answer to
making a Superbowl?

Personally, I hope he puts Tebow under center right away. However I doubt
the rest of the AFCW will be that lucky.

Let's see... Orton is the best QB on the roster, which means it's time to
trade him away, making Tebow the understudy to Brady Quinn.

MartyB in KC

Charles Whitney

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May 1, 2010, 10:20:54 PM5/1/10
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"SEC Soft Scheduler" <lightw...@sec.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D69E03...@94.75.214.90...
> Tebow.
>
> Another NFL experiment, another failure from the SEC.

Sorry, even if Tebow busts out and never plays a game, he wasn't the first
overall pick, and therefore cannot be the next JaMarcus Russell.

C


Cleatarrior

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May 2, 2010, 1:55:54 AM5/2/10
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In some profoundly screwed up way, what you said really makes perfect sense!

I think it was in SI they were speculating about McD running a 100%
spread offense with Tebow having a legit run option on most plays.

?!#$%&)(!!!

WTF?

Is it the 2nd coming of Marv Levy and your Chief's wishbone O?


Fred Waiss, Sr

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May 2, 2010, 10:15:37 AM5/2/10
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"Ray OHara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hrds47$cqr$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Absolutely correct. Russell has the talent, but not the work ethic. He's
lazy. Tebow may not have the talent, but if he fails it will not be because
of a lack of work. Everything I read says that Tebow just loves playing
football, loves practicing football, loves competing in football. Nothing
I've read about Russell says any of those things.


The Raider on a Rock

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May 2, 2010, 12:32:18 PM5/2/10
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On May 1, 4:20 pm, "Charles Whitney" <cbillin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "SEC Soft Scheduler" <lightweig...@sec.com> wrote in messagenews:Xns9D69E03...@94.75.214.90...

>
> > Tebow.
>
> > Another NFL experiment, another failure from the SEC.
>
> Sorry, even if Tebow busts out and never plays a game, he wasn't the first
> overall pick, and therefore cannot be the next JaMarcus Russell.
>
> C

Have to agree with this. JaMarcus is a very special case.

Ray OHara

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May 2, 2010, 4:01:09 PM5/2/10
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"Fred Waiss, Sr" <wa...@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:x_Gdne3sCPKaFEDW...@centurytel.net...

Tebow has the intangibles and he's a winner.


Howard Brazee

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May 2, 2010, 4:21:17 PM5/2/10
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On Sun, 2 May 2010 09:15:37 -0500, "Fred Waiss, Sr"
<wa...@centurytel.net> wrote:

>Absolutely correct. Russell has the talent, but not the work ethic. He's
>lazy. Tebow may not have the talent, but if he fails it will not be because
>of a lack of work. Everything I read says that Tebow just loves playing
>football, loves practicing football, loves competing in football. Nothing
>I've read about Russell says any of those things.


The league has lots and lots of people who love football and work
hard. Russell is the exception.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

Howard Brazee

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May 2, 2010, 4:22:00 PM5/2/10
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On Sun, 2 May 2010 16:01:09 -0400, "Ray OHara"
<raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Tebow has the intangibles and he's a winner.

At least on a team full of talent that would have won anyway.

Howard Brazee

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May 2, 2010, 4:22:42 PM5/2/10
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On Sun, 2 May 2010 09:32:18 -0700 (PDT), The Raider on a Rock
<tr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Sorry, even if Tebow busts out and never plays a game, he wasn't the first
>> overall pick, and therefore cannot be the next JaMarcus Russell.
>>
>> C
>
>Have to agree with this. JaMarcus is a very special case.

San Diego paid more for Leaf than Oakland paid for Russell.

Nunya Bidnits

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May 3, 2010, 1:04:53 AM5/3/10
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"Cleatarrior" <cleat...@foot.invaild> wrote in message
news:hrj44t$i7g$1...@news.datemas.de...

If they do, they will get away with it for three or four games before the
league figures them out.

I can't see Orton in a spread so if that's how it goes down, my prediction
looks pretty good.

MartyB


Cleatarrior

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May 13, 2010, 10:54:06 AM5/13/10
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At every level, true.

Cleatarrior

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May 13, 2010, 10:54:48 AM5/13/10
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On 5/2/2010 1:21 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Sun, 2 May 2010 09:15:37 -0500, "Fred Waiss, Sr"
> <wa...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
>> Absolutely correct. Russell has the talent, but not the work ethic. He's
>> lazy. Tebow may not have the talent, but if he fails it will not be because
>> of a lack of work. Everything I read says that Tebow just loves playing
>> football, loves practicing football, loves competing in football. Nothing
>> I've read about Russell says any of those things.
>
>
> The league has lots and lots of people who love football and work
> hard. Russell is the exception.
>


Kinda reminds me of another Raider named Russell...

Cleatarrior

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May 13, 2010, 10:55:21 AM5/13/10
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On 5/2/2010 1:22 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Sun, 2 May 2010 16:01:09 -0400, "Ray OHara"
> <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Tebow has the intangibles and he's a winner.
>
> At least on a team full of talent that would have won anyway.
>
He replaced Chris Leak who never cracked the Bears lineup - fair point.

Cleatarrior

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May 13, 2010, 10:58:18 AM5/13/10
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Fast LBs spell doom for the bone.

Unless they can gin up a flex bone that deploys a reliable downfield target.

No wait, Marshall's gone..


> I can't see Orton in a spread so if that's how it goes down, my prediction
> looks pretty good.
>
> MartyB

Yup.

Izzy

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May 13, 2010, 7:06:47 PM5/13/10
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On May 1, 10:55 pm, Cleatarrior <cleatarr...@foot.invaild> wrote:
> On 4/30/2010 12:03 PM, Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Cleatarrior"<cleatarr...@foot.invaild>  wrote in message

> >news:hrf52u$pd6$4...@news.datemas.de...
> >> On 4/29/2010 10:02 PM, SEC Soft Scheduler wrote:
> >>> Tebow.
>
> >>> Another NFL experiment, another failure from the SEC.
>
> >> Even that "failure" Grossman got the Bears into the SB.
>
> > Did you really mean to imply that Tebow might be Ronald McDaniels answer to
> > making a Superbowl?
>
> > Personally, I hope he puts Tebow under center right away. However I doubt
> > the rest of the AFCW will be that lucky.
>
> > Let's see... Orton is the best QB on the roster, which means it's time to
> > trade him away, making Tebow the understudy to Brady Quinn.
>
> > MartyB in KC
>
> In some profoundly screwed up way, what you said really makes perfect sense!
>
> I think it was in SI they were speculating about McD running a 100%
> spread offense with Tebow having a legit run option on most plays.
>
Yeah, wonderful idea running him. Choir boy will be on injured reserve
by week 5.

Cleatarrior

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May 13, 2010, 9:46:51 PM5/13/10
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He missed how many games in college?

Gary DeWaay

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May 14, 2010, 12:33:34 AM5/14/10
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In article <hsia26$k6t$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
says...

> >>
> > Yeah, wonderful idea running him. Choir boy will be on injured reserve
> > by week 5.
>
> He missed how many games in college?
>
>

This always kills me!

He played against how many NFL quality players in college?

4 maybe 5 a season?

Hint: He will be playing against 11 a week now.

Theres a reason nobody uses a QB option much in the NFL.

This reminds me of the people saying the best college team can beat the
worst NFL team.

They would lose 49 to nothing... at half. An NFL offensive line would
get bored blocking college players. You give the worst NFL QB "four
apple, five apple" he would pick apart any college defense.

A NFL defense would be on top of any college QB right after the snap.

Its a WHOOOOLE different game bubs.

Howard Brazee

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May 14, 2010, 7:46:56 AM5/14/10
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On Thu, 13 May 2010 23:33:34 -0500, Gary DeWaay
<dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:

>> He missed how many games in college?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>This always kills me!
>
>He played against how many NFL quality players in college?
>
>4 maybe 5 a season?
>
>Hint: He will be playing against 11 a week now.
>
>Theres a reason nobody uses a QB option much in the NFL.

Which is why quarterbacks have longer careers than running backs. But
we still do have running backs.

Cleatarrior

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May 14, 2010, 12:06:07 PM5/14/10
to
On 5/13/2010 9:33 PM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
> In article<hsia26$k6t$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
> says...
>
>
>
>>>>
>>> Yeah, wonderful idea running him. Choir boy will be on injured reserve
>>> by week 5.
>>
>> He missed how many games in college?
>>
>>
>
>
>
> This always kills me!
>
> He played against how many NFL quality players in college?

Are you serious?

The SEC puts HOW many in the NFL?

> 4 maybe 5 a season?

Maybe you haven't a clue what you're blathering about:

http://www.secsports.com/news/default.aspx?ArticleId=12716

SEC LEADS NATION IN NFL DRAFT SELECTIONS

# The SEC had the most selections in this weekend's National Football
League player draft. The SEC had 37 of its players selected followed by
the ACC with 33, the Pac-10 with 32, Big 12 and the Big Ten with 28 each
and the Big East with 27. The Mountain West Conference had 16 players
selected while the Western Athletic Conference and Conference USA had 10
each.

# Eleven of the 12 SEC schools had at least one player selected in the
draft. South Carolina led the SEC with seven players selected followed
by Georgia and LSU with six each and Alabama and Ole Miss with four each.

# The SEC has now led or tied for the lead in the most selections in an
NFL Draft in 10 of the last 12 years, including the last three drafts.

# Since 1990, the SEC has had 739 players selected in NFL Drafts, tops
in the nation.

# The SEC had eight players selected in the first round, which was tied
for the fourth highest in SEC history. In 2007, the SEC had 11 players
selected in the first round, 2005 and 1998 had 10 each, 1999 had eight
in the first round.

# Since conference expansion in 1992, the SEC has had 107 first round
selections in 17 drafts, an average of 6.29 selections per draft.


> Hint: He will be playing against 11 a week now.

Hint: So will Casey Clausen, Sam Bradford and Colt McCoy, your point is?????

> Theres a reason nobody uses a QB option much in the NFL.

Fast LBs, yes.

> This reminds me of the people saying the best college team can beat the
> worst NFL team.

That is a non sequitur.

> They would lose 49 to nothing... at half. An NFL offensive line would
> get bored blocking college players. You give the worst NFL QB "four
> apple, five apple" he would pick apart any college defense.

So?

> A NFL defense would be on top of any college QB right after the snap.

So?

> Its a WHOOOOLE different game bubs.

Well I guess that no college QB has a chance then, maybe they should
stick to AFL retreads.

What a 'tardish rant you lamed out.

Enjoy teaching Jason Campbell he's not still in the SEC, you dolt.

Cleatarrior

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May 14, 2010, 12:07:35 PM5/14/10
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On 5/14/2010 4:46 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Thu, 13 May 2010 23:33:34 -0500, Gary DeWaay
> <dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:
>
>>> He missed how many games in college?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This always kills me!
>>
>> He played against how many NFL quality players in college?
>>
>> 4 maybe 5 a season?
>>
>> Hint: He will be playing against 11 a week now.
>>
>> Theres a reason nobody uses a QB option much in the NFL.
>
> Which is why quarterbacks have longer careers than running backs. But
> we still do have running backs.
>

And no one asks any QB to run the ball for each 3 or 4 downs the whole
game, do they?

I smell a disgruntled Faider mouthpiece.

Gary DeWaay

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May 14, 2010, 7:35:02 PM5/14/10
to
In article <a0equ55g9519c8l33...@4ax.com>,
how...@brazee.net says...

> >Theres a reason nobody uses a QB option much in the NFL.
>
> Which is why quarterbacks have longer careers than running backs. But
> we still do have running backs.


Well yes. I guess if you value a RB the same as a QB, by all means run
an option with him.


Howard Brazee

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May 14, 2010, 8:10:54 PM5/14/10
to
On Fri, 14 May 2010 18:35:02 -0500, Gary DeWaay
<dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:

>> >Theres a reason nobody uses a QB option much in the NFL.
>>
>> Which is why quarterbacks have longer careers than running backs. But
>> we still do have running backs.
>
>
>Well yes. I guess if you value a RB the same as a QB, by all means run
>an option with him.

Some quarterbacks aren't worth keeping around for a long career. If
they can win now by running, why not?

Gary DeWaay

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May 14, 2010, 8:23:02 PM5/14/10
to
In article <uipru5hftjj5ip89l...@4ax.com>,
how...@brazee.net says...

> >Well yes. I guess if you value a RB the same as a QB, by all means run
> >an option with him.
>
> Some quarterbacks aren't worth keeping around for a long career. If
> they can win now by running, why not?
>

Well I guess thats a valid point. Usually the NFL looks more long term
with QB's, but if you just want a short term fix... it might work.

Good luck!

Gary DeWaay

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May 14, 2010, 8:27:32 PM5/14/10
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In article <hsjsdc$epj$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
says...

> > He played against how many NFL quality players in college?
>
> Are you serious?
>
> The SEC puts HOW many in the NFL?
>
> > 4 maybe 5 a season?
>
> Maybe you haven't a clue what you're blathering about:
>
> http://www.secsports.com/news/default.aspx?ArticleId=12716
>
> SEC LEADS NATION IN NFL DRAFT SELECTIONS
>
> # The SEC had the most selections in this weekend's National Football
> League player draft. The SEC had 37 of its players selected followed by
> the ACC with 33,
>


Ok.. I stand corrected.

I will admit when I am wrong.

Sooo... of these, lets guess 20 are defensive, and of those, maybe 5 or
6 are starters next year?

Oh wait.

I might be right.


Never mind.


Cleatarrior

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May 14, 2010, 11:38:08 PM5/14/10
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On 5/14/2010 6:27 PM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
> In article<hsjsdc$epj$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
> says...
>>> He played against how many NFL quality players in college?
>>
>> Are you serious?
>>
>> The SEC puts HOW many in the NFL?
>>
>>> 4 maybe 5 a season?
>>
>> Maybe you haven't a clue what you're blathering about:
>>
>> http://www.secsports.com/news/default.aspx?ArticleId=12716
>>
>> SEC LEADS NATION IN NFL DRAFT SELECTIONS
>>
>> # The SEC had the most selections in this weekend's National Football
>> League player draft. The SEC had 37 of its players selected followed by
>> the ACC with 33,
>>
>
>
> Ok.. I stand corrected.
>
> I will admit when I am wrong.

I doubt it.

> Sooo... of these, lets guess 20 are defensive, and of those, maybe 5 or
> 6 are starters next year?
>
> Oh wait.
>
> I might be right.

What you said was "NFL quality".

They were drafted right?

That was punk to try an end run on your own chosen qualification.

You never said NFL starters.

> Never mind.

Typical Faider.

Cleatarrior

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May 14, 2010, 11:39:15 PM5/14/10
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One SB win was all Jim McMahon ever promised or got.

Wasted career?

Or dominant over-achiever?

Cleatarrior

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May 14, 2010, 11:39:58 PM5/14/10
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Do we only get to play one QB?

F. Kurgan Gringioni

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May 15, 2010, 1:47:38 AM5/15/10
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"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:uipru5hftjj5ip89l...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 14 May 2010 18:35:02 -0500, Gary DeWaay
> <dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:
>
>>> >Theres a reason nobody uses a QB option much in the NFL.
>>>
>>> Which is why quarterbacks have longer careers than running backs. But
>>> we still do have running backs.
>>
>>
>>Well yes. I guess if you value a RB the same as a QB, by all means run
>>an option with him.
>
> Some quarterbacks aren't worth keeping around for a long career. If
> they can win now by running, why not?

It seems to me that if you're gonna spend a first round pick on a QB, you'd
wanna keep him around for awhile.

If the Donks are gonna run a version of the Wildcat, I doubt it'll affect
Tebow's longevity much since it won't be the base offense and the number of
plays he runs will be limited. What I'd have a problem with, if I was a Donk
fan, is that learning how to run the Wildcat is not a good way to develop a
long term solution at QB. If you want Tebow to develop, you want him
practicing a normal offense, not the Wildcat. One of the concerns about him
coming out of the Gator program is that he didn't take snaps from under
center in their offense. It was 100% shotgun. The Wildcat is also run out of
the shotgun. Tebow needs repetitions at game speed w/ 5 and 7 step drops.

Howard Brazee

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May 15, 2010, 9:57:04 AM5/15/10
to
On Fri, 14 May 2010 19:23:02 -0500, Gary DeWaay
<dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:

>> Some quarterbacks aren't worth keeping around for a long career. If
>> they can win now by running, why not?
>>
>
>
>
>Well I guess thats a valid point. Usually the NFL looks more long term
>with QB's, but if you just want a short term fix... it might work.

If you've got a top player, you want to keep him as long as you can.
Even if that player is a running back - which is an important
position. But running backs rarely last long because of the
pounding they take.

On the other hand, elite players are hard to come by. How long do we
expect to keep Quinn for? 6 months?

Cleatarrior

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May 15, 2010, 1:27:48 PM5/15/10
to

But does he?

Elway was outstanding from the gun. Brady, a fairly immobile guy by any
standards, is great from the gun. Brandstater is a bit of a statue, and
Orton's drops were mechanical but unproductive on the long ball.

I see no reason why a shotgun based O with some wildcat and plenty more
emphasis on stretching the D can't thrive. To that end we need to see if
McD's ability to clean up Tebow's right side mechanics yields a better
deep ball with any regularity.

If it does the wildcat will be a pleasant change of pace and not an
every down expectation.

I suspect McD knows that Orton's predictable rag arm tosses doomed last
year's team. I think he'll fix that.

Cleatarrior

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May 15, 2010, 1:31:17 PM5/15/10
to
On 5/15/2010 7:57 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Fri, 14 May 2010 19:23:02 -0500, Gary DeWaay
> <dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:
>
>>> Some quarterbacks aren't worth keeping around for a long career. If
>>> they can win now by running, why not?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Well I guess thats a valid point. Usually the NFL looks more long term
>> with QB's, but if you just want a short term fix... it might work.
>
> If you've got a top player, you want to keep him as long as you can.
> Even if that player is a running back - which is an important
> position. But running backs rarely last long because of the
> pounding they take.
>
> On the other hand, elite players are hard to come by. How long do we
> expect to keep Quinn for? 6 months?
>

And is Quinn's arm or mobility even proven quantities?

With Tebow we get a proven scrambler, a total leader, and a tireless worker.

How many players have the last 2 qualities, let alone the first?

Think Tarkenton with a 'tude.

This could work out.

Fred Waiss, Sr

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May 15, 2010, 10:02:08 PM5/15/10
to

"Cleatarrior" <cleat...@foot.invaild> wrote in message
news:hsh3qa$10u$2...@news.datemas.de...

John Elway thinks Tebow has the potential to be very good. He likes the
kid.


Gary DeWaay

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May 16, 2010, 11:10:03 PM5/16/10
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In article <hsl4us$22m$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
says...


Well I guess I assumed everyone would know that if he was starting in
the NFL, he would be playing vs starters.

Who do you think he'd be playing against as a starter?

My bad for the slip.

Yes, Tebow will prolly look very good against "NFL Quality" backups in
pre-season games.

Is that what your point is?

>
> > Never mind.
>
> Typical Faider.


How old are you?

Gary DeWaay

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May 16, 2010, 11:14:28 PM5/16/10
to
In article <hsl50u$22m$2...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
says...

Uhh, McMahon played 15 years in the NFL.

And the furthest thing from a run-first QB as anyone I could imagine.

Thats a very very strange analogy.

Cleatarrior

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May 17, 2010, 12:52:59 AM5/17/10
to
On 5/16/2010 9:10 PM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
> In article<hsl4us$22m$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild

Then why did you say "NFL quality"?

There are lots of "NFL quality" players who are not starters.

In fact on any given field in any given NFL game there will be starters
and non-starters.

> Who do you think he'd be playing against as a starter?

Players, starting and not starting, depending on the package and the D.

> My bad for the slip.
>
> Yes, Tebow will prolly look very good against "NFL Quality" backups in
> pre-season games.
>
> Is that what your point is?

No.

My point is that he has legitimate game skills, and some obvious
mechanical flaws.

McD thinks he can address the latter, with success.

If he does, watch out.

Tebow leads and he wins.

Flutie did both with varying success and a physical disadvantage.

But Flutie never got a Heisman or a national championship.

Do the math.


>>
>>> Never mind.
>>
>> Typical Faider.
>
>
> How old are you?

How old do you need me to be?

Clearly this isn't going to be about football in the next exchange, is it?

Is there some age range you feel more comfortable insulting?

Cleatarrior

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May 17, 2010, 1:06:55 AM5/17/10
to
On 5/16/2010 9:14 PM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
> In article<hsl50u$22m$2...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild

> says...
>>
>> On 5/14/2010 6:23 PM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
>>> In article<uipru5hftjj5ip89l...@4ax.com>,
>>> how...@brazee.net says...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Well yes. I guess if you value a RB the same as a QB, by all means run
>>>>> an option with him.
>>>>
>>>> Some quarterbacks aren't worth keeping around for a long career. If
>>>> they can win now by running, why not?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well I guess thats a valid point. Usually the NFL looks more long term
>>> with QB's, but if you just want a short term fix... it might work.
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>>
>>
>> One SB win was all Jim McMahon ever promised or got.
>>
>> Wasted career?
>>
>> Or dominant over-achiever?
>
>
>
> Uhh, McMahon played 15 years in the NFL.

With but one (1) SB QB appearance.

> And the furthest thing from a run-first QB as anyone I could imagine.
>
> Thats a very very strange analogy.

Is it?

He was the only BYU QB, other than a scrambler named Young, to win a SB.

He had, by record, a tendency to get dinged.

So he wasn't likely to be "long term", nor were his later years held as
a starter.

So what you have is a guy who gave his all in a few short years and got
the trophy.

Could Tebow also be a short term success?

The possibility is there.

And running QBs do get punished.

McMahon was hammered regularly and finally on the roll-out.

Maybe Tebow takes hits inside.

Both are winners, both are leaders.

Both are unique and disparate individuals.

I'd actually rather be in our position with Tim, than yours with Jason
Campbell who reminds me a bit of that USFL castoff Vince Evans.

How many titles did he win for you?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_McMahon

McMahon won the Bears' starting quarterback job as a rookie and was
named to several All-Rookie teams when he nearly led the team to the
playoffs, despite the NFL only playing two games before a players'
strike that cancelled nearly half the season. McMahon quickly displayed
a natural ability to read defenses and an athletic versatility that
surprised many. He established himself as the best play-action passer in
the game with his nonchalant fake handoffs and coolness in the pocket.
Despite having only average arm strength, his situational awareness and
superior acting skills made him a fearsome play-action passer.[citation
needed]

McMahon also made a case for being the best rollout passer at that time.
He explained that coaching in his youth had taught him to square his
shoulders to the direction he wanted to throw the football, and he was
thus able to execute passes with tight spirals and a high degree of
accuracy when running to either his left or his right. The Bears
finished the strike-shortened season at 3�6, but due to an expanded
playoff format and conference-wide seeding the Bears missed a playoff
berth by only one victory. McMahon was named NFC Offensive Rookie of the
Year, losing the league-wide honor to Marcus Allen, who was playing for
the Los Angeles Raiders at that time.

In 1983 McMahon continued to improve as a passer and as a field general.
He made a habit of changing the play both in the huddle and at the line
of scrimmage, a practice which frustrated Ditka but usually led to
success. His knowledge of the game and an instinctive, intuitive grasp
of in-game situations were significant. He became a frequent scorer in
goal line situations, after the dying Halas instructed Ditka to make the
quarterback sneak a bigger part of the Bears' offense. He also began to
catch touchdown passes on option plays, and was the emergency punter.
Chicago finished the season at 8-8, missing the division title and a
playoff berth by one victory again.

In 1984 the Bears broke through, reaching the conference finals before
losing to the San Francisco 49ers. McMahon started the season strongly,
though nursing minor injuries like those that would plague him
throughout his career. In a violent game against the Los Angeles Raiders
in Chicago, McMahon sustained a season-ending injury when he was
brutally tackled by two Los Angeles defenders. He suffered bruised ribs
and a lacerated kidney on the play, but limped to the huddle and
breathlessly called the next play, despite difficulty breathing and
increasing pain. The players could barely hear him in the huddle, and
when McMahon attempted an audible at the line of scrimmage the Bears
receivers were unable to hear his call. McMahon was on the verge of
collapsing on the field, clutching his flank and rasping in his attempts
to convey his situation. Offensive linemen helped McMahon stand and
leave the field. McMahon went to the locker room, and reported urine
that "looked like grape juice."
[edit] 1985

In 1985, the Bears won their first 12 games and finished 15�1 for the
season. McMahon became a media darling, not only for his outstanding
play on the field, but also for his personality. He appeared in a rap
record made by the team, "The Super Bowl Shuffle," in which he
proclaimed "I'm the punky QB known as McMahon." He ended the season with
a strong performance in Super Bowl XX, which the Bears won 46�10 over
the New England Patriots. In that game, McMahon became the first
quarterback in the history of the Super Bowl to rush for two
touchdowns.[1] McMahon earned a spot in the Pro Bowl. He was a point of
controversy in New Orleans at the Super Bowl when he "mooned"
journalists who were inquiring as to the status of a minor injury to his
buttocks. McMahon was notorious for head-first baseball-style slides
when running the football, despite being coached to slide feet-first to
protect his body. In the playoffs, McMahon heeded this coaching advice
and was speared by a defender's helmet squarely in his buttocks, causing
a painful deep bruise for which McMahon sought acupuncture treatment.[2]
On Thursday of Super Bowl XX week, McMahon was wrongfully accused of
"calling the women of New Orleans sluts and the men idiots" on an
interview over Chicago's WLS Radio at a restaurant on Bourbon Street,
but the interview never happened, and New Orleans Sportscaster Buddy
Deliberto was suspended for starting that rumor on his 10pm sportscast
the night before. McMahon was cleared of this charge by WLS Sportscaster
Les Grobstein, who was supposed to be the person doing the interview.
Hundreds of angry women showed up at the Bears hotel to protest until
they were informed the whole thing was a hoax.

In an early-season Thursday night game at Minnesota, McMahon was slated
to back up Steve Fuller, as McMahon had missed practice time earlier in
the week due to a neck injury that required an overnight hospital stay.
Midway into the third quarter, the Vikings held a 17�9 lead. McMahon
lobbied to get into the game until well into the third quarter. Once
finally on the field, his first play was an opportunistic 70 yard
touchdown pass to Willie Gault. His very next offensive play was a
25-yard touchdown pass to Dennis McKinnon, making him 2�2 for 95 yards
and two major scores. He followed up with another successful offensive
drive, including a crucial third and short sneak to set up another
43-yard touchdown pass to McKinnon. The Bears led 30�17 and went on to
win the game 33�24.
[edit] 1986

In a game against the Green Bay Packers, McMahon sustained a season
ending injury when defensive lineman Charles Martin grabbed him from
behind and body-slammed him to the ground on his previously injured
shoulder (long after McMahon had passed the ball and officials had
turned their attention downfield). Martin was ejected from the game and
suspended for two games. McMahon battled injuries for the rest of his
career although at one point between the 1984 and 1987 seasons, he won
22 consecutive regular-season starts, the longest regular season winning
streak by an NFL quarterback at the time, now held by Peyton Manning,
who won 23 in 2009.


F. Kurgan Gringioni

unread,
May 17, 2010, 1:22:53 AM5/17/10
to

"Cleatarrior" <cleat...@foot.invaild> wrote in message
news:hsmlig$qs9$1...@news.datemas.de...

>
> If it does the wildcat will be a pleasant change of pace and not an every
> down expectation.

IMO, you wouldn't want your long term solution at QB learning the "habits"
of running the Wildcat.

The Wildcat is a modern version of the old "Wing T" formation. IMO, if
you're trying to mold a long term NFL QB, you want him practicing running a
modern NFL offense.

IMO, the teams that run the Wildcat have are weak with their normal
formations, so they insert that "wrinkle" in an attempt to force opponents
to prepare for two different looks. It's a sign of weakness. The teams with
the best offenses won't run the Wildcat because their normal offenses work.
You won't see the Colts, the Patriots or the Saints running the Wildcat.

Cleatarrior

unread,
May 17, 2010, 11:32:18 AM5/17/10
to

The state of NFL offenses is always in flux, it isn't hard to remember
when Mike Martz's air show was considered the state of the art.

That said I wouldn't call the wildcat a sign of weakness so much as an
extra dimension. Which is to say that running the wing T or the wishbone
is not going to be successful as an every down proposition in the NFL
due to LB speed and safety support.

I also do not think that using Tebow in the wildcat will necessarily be
detrimental to his "habits" as long as he gets plenty of quality passing
reps.

But coupled with a shotgun style spread O, I think the cat can be a
valid mix to deploy. Bottom line, as I noted, if you can't get the
safeties to play back out of the box by working the long ball you won't
prosper. I think the Pats/Ravens playoff game demonstrated what happens
when the QB does not have the D's respect. And the 2nd 1/2 of our season
demonstrated that Orton can not stretch a D.

What we need most now offensively is a more reliable running game out of
Moreno, the arm to go long from (? - pick one) and consistent OL blocking.

If the wildcat provides some change of pace to the running game we may
have solved one key missing piece.

Given the OL injuries I think McD's best drafting came in getting
Beadles and Walton.

Gary DeWaay

unread,
May 17, 2010, 1:26:08 PM5/17/10
to
In article <hsqi3c$r11$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
says...

> > Well I guess I assumed everyone would know that if he was starting in
> > the NFL, he would be playing vs starters.
>
> Then why did you say "NFL quality"?


I already said it was a slip... its right down below.

You ignored it for some reason.


>
> There are lots of "NFL quality" players who are not starters.
>
> In fact on any given field in any given NFL game there will be starters
> and non-starters.
>
> > Who do you think he'd be playing against as a starter?
>
> Players, starting and not starting, depending on the package and the D.
>
> > My bad for the slip.
> >
> > Yes, Tebow will prolly look very good against "NFL Quality" backups in
> > pre-season games.
> >
> > Is that what your point is?
>
> No.
>
> My point is that he has legitimate game skills, and some obvious
> mechanical flaws.
>
> McD thinks he can address the latter, with success.


Well of course. He just drafted him. His reputation is on the line.
What do you expect him to say?


>
> If he does, watch out.


I will be watching with interest. I suspect he will be playing in a few
wildcats this year is all. Just a guess.


>
> Tebow leads and he wins.
>
> Flutie did both with varying success and a physical disadvantage.
>
> But Flutie never got a Heisman or a national championship.
>
> Do the math.
> >>
> >>> Never mind.
> >>
> >> Typical Faider.
> >
> >
> > How old are you?
>
> How old do you need me to be?


Older than using the childish "Faider"?


>
> Clearly this isn't going to be about football in the next exchange, is it?

>
> Is there some age range you feel more comfortable insulting?


Have you seen me spouting childish names for your football team or
something?


Cleatarrior

unread,
May 17, 2010, 3:53:22 PM5/17/10
to
On 5/17/2010 11:26 AM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
> In article<hsqi3c$r11$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
> says...
>
>
>
>>> Well I guess I assumed everyone would know that if he was starting in
>>> the NFL, he would be playing vs starters.
>>
>> Then why did you say "NFL quality"?
>
>
> I already said it was a slip... its right down below.
>
> You ignored it for some reason.

You can't have both sides of the court, if it's a slip, fine.

If you want to defend it that's playing both sides.

>>
>> There are lots of "NFL quality" players who are not starters.
>>
>> In fact on any given field in any given NFL game there will be starters
>> and non-starters.
>>
>>> Who do you think he'd be playing against as a starter?
>>
>> Players, starting and not starting, depending on the package and the D.
>>
>>> My bad for the slip.
>>>
>>> Yes, Tebow will prolly look very good against "NFL Quality" backups in
>>> pre-season games.
>>>
>>> Is that what your point is?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> My point is that he has legitimate game skills, and some obvious
>> mechanical flaws.
>>
>> McD thinks he can address the latter, with success.
>
>
> Well of course. He just drafted him. His reputation is on the line.
> What do you expect him to say?

He already explained how he tightened Tim's non-throwing shoulder
position and tweaked the release point.

As big a trade cost as this was I expect that it's something more than
McD merely needing to protect his reputation. In fact the only way to
achieve that is through Ws, not statements.

I wish I'd bookmarked the article, but there was an in-depth look at how
McD approaches the game, the level of detail he brings to every facet,
even the smallest things.

The guy really thinks he can impelement "perfection" strategy and gain
an edge over other teams - he's that finicky, more so, by many reports,
than even Shannahan. So when he analyzes and discusses what he can do to
fix Tebow's flaws I see it as valid QC, rather than ego posturing.

>>
>> If he does, watch out.
>
>
> I will be watching with interest. I suspect he will be playing in a few
> wildcats this year is all. Just a guess.

It remains, more so than even the dumping of Cutler, the biggest deal
since we got Elway. I do wish Tim came with that caliber arm, but I'll
trust he can at least be an upgrade over Orton.

That bowl win over Cincy did a lot for his resume.

>>
>> Tebow leads and he wins.
>>
>> Flutie did both with varying success and a physical disadvantage.
>>
>> But Flutie never got a Heisman or a national championship.
>>
>> Do the math.
>>>>
>>>>> Never mind.
>>>>
>>>> Typical Faider.
>>>
>>>
>>> How old are you?
>>
>> How old do you need me to be?
>
>
> Older than using the childish "Faider"?

Oh, so a little off-season smack talk isn't par for what used to be a
decent rivalry?

Get real.

>>
>> Clearly this isn't going to be about football in the next exchange, is it?
>
>>
>> Is there some age range you feel more comfortable insulting?
>
>
> Have you seen me spouting childish names for your football team or
> something?

Our Donks?

No, but I just did ;-)

Lighten up, you were the hated silver and black long enough that it's
worth re-firing the torch, despite the pallid embrace with mediocrity Al
Davis' senility has left you in.

Has Cable punched out any more assistants?

Gary DeWaay

unread,
May 18, 2010, 7:07:30 AM5/18/10
to
In article <hss6rj$q1v$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
Cleatarrior says...

I was just going to say, you hired another Shanahan? Good luck!

He seems like an eccentric egomaniac mad-gambler to me. Shanahan on
steroids.

So when he analyzes and discusses what he can do to
> fix Tebow's flaws I see it as valid QC, rather than ego posturing.
>

Good luck with that one too! Name another QB that fixed all his arm
swing flaws AFTER he hit the pros.

Most just keep working with what they have... Rivers and Vince Young
come to mind.

> >>
> >> If he does, watch out.
> >
> >
> > I will be watching with interest. I suspect he will be playing in a few
> > wildcats this year is all. Just a guess.
>
> It remains, more so than even the dumping of Cutler, the biggest deal
> since we got Elway. I do wish Tim came with that caliber arm, but I'll
> trust he can at least be an upgrade over Orton.
>
> That bowl win over Cincy did a lot for his resume.
>
> >>
> >> Tebow leads and he wins.
> >>
> >> Flutie did both with varying success and a physical disadvantage.
> >>
> >> But Flutie never got a Heisman or a national championship.
> >>
> >> Do the math.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Never mind.
> >>>>
> >>>> Typical Faider.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> How old are you?
> >>
> >> How old do you need me to be?
> >
> >
> > Older than using the childish "Faider"?
>
> Oh, so a little off-season smack talk isn't par for what used to be a
> decent rivalry?

> \

Uhh... seems the Raider success vs Denver has been pretty decent lately.

Even when the Raiders are stinking the rest of the schedule up... we've
held our own. Hell, even JaMoney sent you home crying last year.

And I've been a Raider fan long enough to remember that you'd have to
sweep us for like the next DECADE (or maybe two) to even the record
against us.

Nice try though.


> Get real.
>

> >>
> >> Clearly this isn't going to be about football in the next exchange, is it?
> >
> >>
> >> Is there some age range you feel more comfortable insulting?
> >
> >
> > Have you seen me spouting childish names for your football team or
> > something?
>
> Our Donks?
>
> No, but I just did ;-)
>
> Lighten up, you were the hated silver and black long enough that it's
> worth re-firing the torch, despite the pallid embrace with mediocrity Al
> Davis' senility has left you in.


Whatever floats your boat, little boy.

\

Howard Brazee

unread,
May 18, 2010, 7:41:10 AM5/18/10
to
On Tue, 18 May 2010 06:07:30 -0500, Gary DeWaay
<dewaay2...@sio.midco.net> wrote:

>He seems like an eccentric egomaniac mad-gambler to me. Shanahan on
>steroids.

Aren't all head coaches eccentric egomaniacs?

Gary DeWaay

unread,
May 18, 2010, 9:52:58 AM5/18/10
to
In article <26v4v5tfqv3oldbgv...@4ax.com>,
how...@brazee.net Howard Brazee says...

> >He seems like an eccentric egomaniac mad-gambler to me. Shanahan on
> >steroids.
>
> Aren't all head coaches eccentric egomaniacs?
>
>


I dunno. Do they all immediately get rid of their franchise QB right
out of the chute?

I guess he's got balls the size of coconuts... gotta give him that. I'm
guessing if he doesn't come up with a QB at least as good as Cutler
sometime soon, he will be out of a job. And rightfully so.

Cleatarrior

unread,
May 18, 2010, 12:03:07 PM5/18/10
to
On 5/18/2010 5:07 AM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
> In article<hss6rj$q1v$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild

If he gets us 2 SBs and 138 wins, no problem.

> He seems like an eccentric egomaniac mad-gambler to me. Shanahan on
> steroids.

I'd prefer that "gambler" be seen in play-calling as opposed to draft
trades, still...we'll see how well he progresses with that by year 3.

> So when he analyzes and discusses what he can do to
>> fix Tebow's flaws I see it as valid QC, rather than ego posturing.
>>
>
> Good luck with that one too! Name another QB that fixed all his arm
> swing flaws AFTER he hit the pros.

Iirc Steve Young made some changes, albeit not that major. Most times
its guys learning a higher delivery position, and that's not uncommon.

> Most just keep working with what they have... Rivers and Vince Young
> come to mind.

True enough.

Meantime:

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-football/article/2010-03-17/improved-mechanics-tebow-shows-hes-quarterback

Less than two months ago at the Senior Bowl, Tebow was criticized for
his poor mechanics and looping throwing motion. He struggled to take
snaps from under center and had fumbling issues the entire week of practice.

So he hired former longtime NFL assistant and quarterbacks guru Zeke
Bratkowski to help him change his mechanics and throwing motion. He also
spoke or worked with former NFL coaches Sam Wyche, Marc Trestman and Jon
Gruden in preparation for this very day -- this very test.

After working out for a little more than 30 minutes in front of scouts
-- and a handful of head coaches -- from all 32 NFL teams, we have this:

"From the Senior Bowl to now, the improvement is ridiculous," NFL
Network analyst Mike Mayock said. "I was blown away."

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/college/tim-tebow-unveils-new-throwing-motion-at-university-of-florida-pro-day/1080603

Nearly gone is the elongated, sidearm windup. And he seems to have
worked diligently at ridding himself of the habit of bringing the ball
below his belt as he prepared to deliver.

"When I throw the ball, (I now) take a shorter step so I don't have such
a wide base," Tebow said. "The other thing would be holding the ball a
little higher and not taking it down and around in a sort of windmill
motion. That's just quickening (the delivery)."

Tebow seemed to convert at least one critic on Wednesday. ESPN draft
analyst Todd McShay attended and spoke glowingly about Tebow's ability
to quickly overhaul his motion. McShay said Tebow "won't go past the
second round," a much different assessment than he offered in January.

"I was asked a lot of questions," Bratkowski said, "by a lot of teams
that have a quandary at quarterback."


>>>>
>>>> If he does, watch out.
>>>
>>>
>>> I will be watching with interest. I suspect he will be playing in a few
>>> wildcats this year is all. Just a guess.
>>
>> It remains, more so than even the dumping of Cutler, the biggest deal
>> since we got Elway. I do wish Tim came with that caliber arm, but I'll
>> trust he can at least be an upgrade over Orton.
>>
>> That bowl win over Cincy did a lot for his resume.
>>
>>>>
>>>> Tebow leads and he wins.
>>>>
>>>> Flutie did both with varying success and a physical disadvantage.
>>>>
>>>> But Flutie never got a Heisman or a national championship.
>>>>
>>>> Do the math.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Never mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Typical Faider.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How old are you?
>>>>
>>>> How old do you need me to be?
>>>
>>>
>>> Older than using the childish "Faider"?
>>
>> Oh, so a little off-season smack talk isn't par for what used to be a
>> decent rivalry?
>> \
>
>
>
> Uhh... seems the Raider success vs Denver has been pretty decent lately.

Couple that with your stunning playoff presence and...

> Even when the Raiders are stinking the rest of the schedule up... we've
> held our own. Hell, even JaMoney sent you home crying last year.

Who's crying now?

Has bigboi even signed with anyone?

What a wasted high pick he was.

Sorta reminds me of another Faider named Rusell...

> And I've been a Raider fan long enough to remember that you'd have to
> sweep us for like the next DECADE (or maybe two) to even the record
> against us.

56-39 iirc?

True we'd need 9 years to make up for the 60s and 70s.

> Nice try though.

And why not?

You're the one with a trogolodyte criminal grunt for a head coach, and
with the Kiffin debacle preceding him, things aren't looking too
competent out Faider way at all...

Face it, until Mr. Burns...er...Davis croaks you goons are screwed.

>> Get real.
>>
>
>>>>
>>>> Clearly this isn't going to be about football in the next exchange, is it?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there some age range you feel more comfortable insulting?
>>>
>>>
>>> Have you seen me spouting childish names for your football team or
>>> something?
>>
>> Our Donks?
>>
>> No, but I just did ;-)
>>
>> Lighten up, you were the hated silver and black long enough that it's
>> worth re-firing the torch, despite the pallid embrace with mediocrity Al
>> Davis' senility has left you in.
>
>
> Whatever floats your boat, little boy.

Looks like I hit a nerve, old man.

Cleatarrior

unread,
May 18, 2010, 12:04:26 PM5/18/10
to
On 5/18/2010 5:41 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Tue, 18 May 2010 06:07:30 -0500, Gary DeWaay
> <dewaay2...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
>
>> He seems like an eccentric egomaniac mad-gambler to me. Shanahan on
>> steroids.
>
> Aren't all head coaches eccentric egomaniacs?
>
Saw a feature on George Allen before an interview with his son Bruce on
NFL network.

Consummate eccentricity - the former.

Cleatarrior

unread,
May 18, 2010, 12:08:33 PM5/18/10
to
On 5/18/2010 7:52 AM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
> In article<26v4v5tfqv3oldbgv...@4ax.com>,
> how...@brazee.net Howard Brazee says...
>
>
>>> He seems like an eccentric egomaniac mad-gambler to me. Shanahan on
>>> steroids.
>>
>> Aren't all head coaches eccentric egomaniacs?
>>
>>
>
>
> I dunno. Do they all immediately get rid of their franchise QB right
> out of the chute?

Do they all get a QB who whines about the coaching change right our of
the chute?

Well, maybe Shanny did too...

And Cleveland ditched 2.

> I guess he's got balls the size of coconuts... gotta give him that. I'm
> guessing if he doesn't come up with a QB at least as good as Cutler
> sometime soon, he will be out of a job. And rightfully so.

I completely agree.

Big time gambles yield either big time results or big time failures. And
that's as it should be.

So how's the Montgomery Burns senility machine working out for you guys
vis a vis head coaching decisions?

At least you didn't waste your #1 pick this time....

Gary DeWaay

unread,
May 19, 2010, 1:03:02 AM5/19/10
to
In article <hsudnr$lbm$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
Cleatarrior says...

> "From the Senior Bowl to now, the improvement is ridiculous," NFL
> Network analyst Mike Mayock said. "I was blown away."
>

Kinda reminds me of golfers making major swing changes... ja, it looks
good on the practice tees!!

There's a reason his college coaches didn't make these changes while he
was in college.

He's better with his crappy delivery.

Unless you want to make the point that his college coaches were insane
or something.


Gary DeWaay

unread,
May 19, 2010, 1:05:53 AM5/19/10
to
In article <hsue25$lhi$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
Cleatarrior says...


Good luck writing off the Raiders simply because they sucked for many
years in a row.

We both used to do the same thing with SD, and look at us now.

F. Kurgan Gringioni

unread,
May 19, 2010, 2:11:20 AM5/19/10
to

"Gary DeWaay" <dewaay2...@sio.midco.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.265d2cff4...@news.astraweb.com...

> In article <hsudnr$lbm$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
> Cleatarrior says...
>
>
>> "From the Senior Bowl to now, the improvement is ridiculous," NFL
>> Network analyst Mike Mayock said. "I was blown away."
>>
>
>
>
> Kinda reminds me of golfers making major swing changes... ja, it looks
> good on the practice tees!!
>
> There's a reason his college coaches didn't make these changes while he
> was in college.
>
> He's better with his crappy delivery.

That's not why.

Urban Meyer wasn't interested in developing him for the pro game. He wanted
to win immediately.

Beiselbub�

unread,
May 19, 2010, 5:19:41 AM5/19/10
to
On 15 May 2010, Cleatarrior <cleat...@foot.invaild> posted some
news:hsmlp2$r8d$1...@news.datemas.de:

> On 5/15/2010 7:57 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 May 2010 19:23:02 -0500, Gary DeWaay
>> <dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:
>>
>>>> Some quarterbacks aren't worth keeping around for a long career.
>>>> If they can win now by running, why not?
>>>>

>>>
>>>
>>> Well I guess thats a valid point. Usually the NFL looks more long
>>> term with QB's, but if you just want a short term fix... it might
>>> work.

>> If you've got a top player, you want to keep him as long as you can.
>> Even if that player is a running back - which is an important
>> position. But running backs rarely last long because of the
>> pounding they take.
>>
>> On the other hand, elite players are hard to come by. How long do
>> we expect to keep Quinn for? 6 months?
>>

> And is Quinn's arm or mobility even proven quantities?
>
> With Tebow we get a proven scrambler, a total leader, and a tireless
> worker.

You get a guy who's going to get his brains scrambled.


Beiselbub�

unread,
May 19, 2010, 5:19:44 AM5/19/10
to
On 14 May 2010, Cleatarrior <cleat...@foot.invaild> posted some
news:hsjsdc$epj$1...@news.datemas.de:

> On 5/13/2010 9:33 PM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
>> In article<hsia26$k6t$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
>> says...

>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yeah, wonderful idea running him. Choir boy will be on injured
>>>> reserve by week 5.
>>>
>>> He missed how many games in college?
>>>

>>
>>
>>
>> This always kills me!


>>
>> He played against how many NFL quality players in college?

> Are you serious?
>
> The SEC puts HOW many in the NFL?
>
>> 4 maybe 5 a season?
>
> Maybe you haven't a clue what you're blathering about:
>
> http://www.secsports.com/news/default.aspx?ArticleId=12716

Oh yeah, the mighty "SEC"...

If every team played the kind of cream puff schedules the SEC does,
their players would look good to the NFL too.

Cleatarrior

unread,
May 19, 2010, 11:28:12 AM5/19/10
to

Just what did Urban Meyer send the pros by way of a finished starting QB
in Alex Smith?

Could it be that Chris Leak wasn't Bear-ready either?

Does correcting any professional athlete's technique spell doom?

Remember, if all he becomes is a wildcat H back he's still a potent
force throwing the ball on the run. I mean you'd have to say that a
career 65% completion rate and the TD to Int ratio means something, right?

Now that Campbell kid, he sure seems to have peaked and tailed off...

Cleatarrior

unread,
May 19, 2010, 11:29:59 AM5/19/10
to
On 5/18/2010 11:05 PM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
> In article<hsue25$lhi$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild

Lol, and why not?

With Cable running the show?

Please...

> We both used to do the same thing with SD, and look at us now.

Props to the Chucklers in spite of Norv, no question.

Like I said, until you plant Al, I'm shorting the silver and black.

Cleatarrior

unread,
May 19, 2010, 11:31:41 AM5/19/10
to

Basically yes, I have read Meyer interviewed and that's it in a nutshell.

I mean Alex Smith wasn't a finished product either. Meyer is a win now
team first guy. Tebow filled that role to a "T"...

Cleatarrior

unread,
May 19, 2010, 11:31:56 AM5/19/10
to

Yawn.

Cleatarrior

unread,
May 19, 2010, 11:33:30 AM5/19/10
to
On 5/19/2010 3:19 AM, Beiselbub� wrote:
> On 14 May 2010, Cleatarrior<cleat...@foot.invaild> posted some
> news:hsjsdc$epj$1...@news.datemas.de:
>
>> On 5/13/2010 9:33 PM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
>>> In article<hsia26$k6t$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
>>> says...
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, wonderful idea running him. Choir boy will be on injured
>>>>> reserve by week 5.
>>>>
>>>> He missed how many games in college?
>>>>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This always kills me!
>>>
>>> He played against how many NFL quality players in college?
>
>> Are you serious?
>>
>> The SEC puts HOW many in the NFL?
>>
>>> 4 maybe 5 a season?
>>
>> Maybe you haven't a clue what you're blathering about:
>>
>> http://www.secsports.com/news/default.aspx?ArticleId=12716
>
> Oh yeah, the mighty "SEC"...

Oh yeah, remember when it was the "mighty Pac-10"?

> If every team played the kind of cream puff schedules the SEC does,
> their players would look good to the NFL too.

So talent scouts can't see past conference strength to ability?

Do tell...

How long have you scouted?

Gary DeWaay

unread,
May 20, 2010, 12:22:30 PM5/20/10
to
In article <ht105l$spt$2...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
Cleatarrior says...

> >
> > Good luck writing off the Raiders simply because they sucked for many
> > years in a row.
>
> Lol, and why not?
>


Uhh... you got BEAT at home by the Raiders and JaMoney last year Bubs.

Why are you so much more confident this year?

Tebow?


LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

Gary DeWaay

unread,
May 20, 2010, 12:33:11 PM5/20/10
to
In article <ht102b$spt$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
Cleatarrior says...

>
> On 5/18/2010 11:03 PM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
> > In article<hsudnr$lbm$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
> > Cleatarrior says...
> >
> >
> >> "From the Senior Bowl to now, the improvement is ridiculous," NFL
> >> Network analyst Mike Mayock said. "I was blown away."
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Kinda reminds me of golfers making major swing changes... ja, it looks
> > good on the practice tees!!
> >
> > There's a reason his college coaches didn't make these changes while he
> > was in college.
> >
> > He's better with his crappy delivery.
> >
> > Unless you want to make the point that his college coaches were insane
> > or something.
>
> Just what did Urban Meyer send the pros by way of a finished starting QB
> in Alex Smith?


Why would you bring him up?

He's just now becoming a servicable QB after how many years in the pros?

Five?

Oh, let me guess... Tebow is SPECIAL! All he needs is a game or two...


>
> Could it be that Chris Leak wasn't Bear-ready either?
>
> Does correcting any professional athlete's technique spell doom?

No, but you're childishly acting like he's going to be your saviour
right away.

Nice to see a new Bronco fan taking over the Polyanna crown.


>
> Remember, if all he becomes is a wildcat H back he's still a potent
> force throwing the ball on the run. I mean you'd have to say that a
> career 65% completion rate and the TD to Int ratio means something, right?


IN COLLEGE????

Are you fucking SERIOUS? What kind of moron would brag about college
stats?


Where do the Broncos keep coming up with fans like this?


JFC... JaMoney had a 62% completion rating at LSU.

As just about every other QB drafted in the first round.

Who cares?

>
> Now that Campbell kid, he sure seems to have peaked and tailed off...


Ja, at least he's not just now learning how to throw a football.


Cleatarrior

unread,
May 21, 2010, 12:40:26 PM5/21/10
to

2nd year for a new O system and a rebuilt DL with a quality 2ndy, actually.

> LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

And no Vince Evans at QB ;-)

Can Darius Heywood-Bey catch anything except a cold?

Lol.

Cleatarrior

unread,
May 21, 2010, 12:58:49 PM5/21/10
to
On 5/20/2010 10:33 AM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
> In article<ht102b$spt$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild

> Cleatarrior says...
>
>
>>
>> On 5/18/2010 11:03 PM, Gary DeWaay wrote:
>>> In article<hsudnr$lbm$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
>>> Cleatarrior says...
>>>
>>>
>>>> "From the Senior Bowl to now, the improvement is ridiculous," NFL
>>>> Network analyst Mike Mayock said. "I was blown away."
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kinda reminds me of golfers making major swing changes... ja, it looks
>>> good on the practice tees!!
>>>
>>> There's a reason his college coaches didn't make these changes while he
>>> was in college.
>>>
>>> He's better with his crappy delivery.
>>>
>>> Unless you want to make the point that his college coaches were insane
>>> or something.
>>
>> Just what did Urban Meyer send the pros by way of a finished starting QB
>> in Alex Smith?
>
>
> Why would you bring him up?

Well we _are_ discussing Meyer products, iirc...

> He's just now becoming a servicable QB after how many years in the pros?
>
> Five?

And even serviceable is a reach...

> Oh, let me guess... Tebow is SPECIAL!

I believe he is, yes:


passing G Cmp Att Comp % Yds Yd/A TDs Int


55 661 995 66.4 9285 9.3 88 16

rushing

55 692 2947 4.3 57

> All he needs is a game or two...

Of course that was not a claim I made, a very weak straw man.

Do you always have to make up your respondent's arguments to continue
the fray?

>>
>> Could it be that Chris Leak wasn't Bear-ready either?
>>
>> Does correcting any professional athlete's technique spell doom?
>
>
>
> No, but you're childishly acting like he's going to be your saviour
> right away.

Did I _say_ that?

No.

But he will immediately improve the locker room - a valid quantity.

> Nice to see a new Bronco fan taking over the Polyanna crown.


Nice to see an inept Faider drone making up straw men to knock down.

You're really not the sharpest knife in the block, are you?

>> Remember, if all he becomes is a wildcat H back he's still a potent
>> force throwing the ball on the run. I mean you'd have to say that a
>> career 65% completion rate and the TD to Int ratio means something, right?
>
>
> IN COLLEGE????

Roughly speaking the place MOST NFL player arrive from, yes...

> Are you fucking SERIOUS?

I 'fucking' AM!

> What kind of moron would brag about college
> stats?

What kind of game stats are any prospective draftees measured on?

> Where do the Broncos keep coming up with fans like this?

Why are most all Faider drones idiots?

> JFC... JaMoney had a 62% completion rating at LSU.
>
> As just about every other QB drafted in the first round.
>
> Who cares?

Would you have prefered drafting one with a 55% completion rating?

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=379128

Career 678 375 55.3 5,394 46 33

There's a Faider in waiting...

>> Now that Campbell kid, he sure seems to have peaked and tailed off...
>
>
> Ja, at least he's not just now learning how to throw a football.

Just to win games...

http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/careerstats?id=CAM375235

52 1,637 1,002 61.2 10,860 55 38


QB rating?

...an anemic 82.3

W-L in the pros:

20 and 32.

Now THAT is manifest Faider "committment to excellence", LOLOLOLOL!!!!

<G>

Enjoy!

Gary DeWaay

unread,
May 22, 2010, 3:09:27 AM5/22/10
to
In article <ht6e46$imv$1...@news.datemas.de>, cleat...@foot.invaild
says...

>
> W-L in the pros:
>
> 20 and 32.
>
> Now THAT is manifest Faider "committment to excellence", LOLOLOLOL!!!!
>


Good gawd... I just got done arguing with a person HONESTLY trying to
campare college stats to pro stats.


Just shoot me.


cleatarrior

unread,
May 30, 2010, 1:08:30 PM5/30/10
to

Which part of "W-L in the _pros_: 20 and 32." confused you?

> Just shoot me.

You're doing just fine by yourself.

Cleatarrior

unread,
Sep 14, 2010, 3:24:20 PM9/14/10
to

Still waiting for an answer Gary...

0 new messages