Is Jerry West Overrated as a GM?
VicXnews
by M. Haubs
http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-jerry-west-overrated-as-gm.html
Ask the average pro basketball fan or media member, "Who's been the best
NBA general manager of the last 30 years?" and the answer you are very
likely to hear in return is "Jerry West." West would win any such poll
by acclamation, as he has assumed a legendary status as a personnel
evaluator.
I certainly think that Jerry West has a very good eye for personnel, but
I have tended to believe that West has ultimately been overrated as a GM
because he had a huge advantage over the competition in working for the
Lakers, the league's marquee franchise - the clear-cut no. 1 most
attractive market to players, in terms of both city and team.
It's a big year for Jerry-Westology, with Roland Lazenby's biography,
Jerry West: The Life and Legend of a Basketball Icon, having just been
released, and a new autobiography from West himself coming in the fall.
Despite the double shot of West books, the main impetus which caused me
to reconsider this topic was actually a couple of notes in the recent
Magic/Bird book (with Jackie MacMullan), When The Game Was Ours, as well
as The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons.
Namely, let's go back to the 1979 NBA Draft, when Bill Sharman was the
Lakers' general manager and West was a key member of the front office
(he would become general manager after the 1981-82 season). This Simmons
footnote caught my eye: In Magic's book, he writes that Jerry West
wanted to trade down and pick Moncrief - remember, they already had Norm
Nixon playing point - only Jerry Buss overruled him because he was
buying the team and Magic was a bigger name. Say what now? I feel like I
should even go HBO Real Sports on you here, and repeat the information
again gratuitously for emphasis.
When The Game Was Ours confirmed the story:
Magic's visit with the Lakers also went well. He walked out convinced
they would take him if they selected first - until he read an LA Times
article on the plane ride home discussing general manager [Ed. Note:
This is an error in the book - Bill Sharman was GM at the time.] Jerry
West's fascination with Arkansas star Sidney Moncrief, the team's plans
to bring in UCLA forward David Greenwood for an interview, and
speculation that the Lakers could use the draft selection to trade for a
power forward.
"Maybe they don't like me as much as I think," he confided to his
father.
What Magic didn't know was that Dr. Jerry Buss, the future owner of the
Lakers who was about to buy the team from Jack Kent Cooke, told the
Lakers front office that he expected the team to draft Magic.
"They resisted because Jerry West really liked Moncrief too," Buss said.
"But I told them, 'It's Magic, or find yourself another buyer.'" Let's
not underestimate Sidney Moncrief here - he was a hell of a player who
may yet make it into the Hall of Fame, but it obviously would have been
a serious error to draft him over Magic Johnson, and a setback to the
efforts of building a championship Lakers team in the '80s. The fact
that Buss and Sharman had to save West from himself here seems like a
strike against the Logo.
This is my main beef with West as a GM: I've believed that the
acquisitions of the superstars which keyed each of the two championship
runs he presided over were acquired due to tremendous good fortune as
much as West's acumen.
In the '80s, the two cornerstones were of course Magic, whom we just
discussed, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who was acquired via trade in 1975.
Let the record show that West was fortunate not only just because he
inherited Kareem, but also because of the advantage of the L.A. market -
Kareem specifically requested that he be traded to either New York or
Los Angeles.
**********************
KOBE
As far as the superstars of the early-2000s run, West of course deserves
much credit for having the eye to spot Kobe Bryant's talent when few
others did, and being ahead of the curve early in the preps-to-pros era.
However, I don't believe that West ever would have landed Bryant if he
hadn't been with the Lakers.
The New Jersey Nets also had Kobe evaluated as potential star and sat
ahead of the Lakers in the draft at no. 8. L.A. was at no. 13 after West
traded Vlade Divac for the Hornets' pick.
So, how and why did Kobe land in Hollywood instead of the Meadowlands?
There have always been conflicting accounts on the specifics. Lazenby's
account is quite charitable to West. Dime ran this brief excerpt in a
recent story: First West had to take the huge gamble of trading veteran
center Vlade Divac to the Charlotte Hornets for their thirteenth pick in
the draft. Then he learned that John Calipari, the coach of the New
Jersey Nets, planned to take [Kobe] Bryant with the eighth pick before
the Lakers could snare him at thirteen.
"Jerry wanted Kobe, so he basically called up and talked Cal out of
drafting Kobe," explained Hal Wissel, who was with the Nets at the time.
West encouraged the Bryant family to talk to Calipari and explain that
their son really wanted to play for the Lakers. "He knew if we didn't
take him at eight, he'd drop to Charlotte, and he could make the deal
with Charlotte," Wissel recalled. "Cal was young in the league and, hey,
it's Jerry West on the phone." Here is how Chris Sheridan, then with the
AP, reported things in 2002, when the Lakers and the Nets met in the
Finals: "[Bryant] was our pick. We had dinner with his parents the night
before the draft and we told them he was our choice," recalled John
Nash, who was New Jersey's general manager at the time.
The Nets had brought Bryant in for three workouts, and a year before
that they had been hearing stories from the likes of Jerry Stackhouse,
Rasheed Wallace, Doug Overton and Tim Legler about a 16-year kid from
Lower Merion H.S., who was lighting up every NBA player he was matched
against in workouts at the Philadelphia Sporting Club.
The afternoon of the draft, Nash received two phone calls - one from
Bryant and one from his agent, Arn Tellem.
"They said Kobe had had a tremendous change of heart," Nash said. "Kobe
suggested he wouldn't play in New Jersey."
Within a couple of hours, Nash learned that the Hornets and Lakers had
worked out a deal to sent Vlade Divac to Charlotte for the rights to
Bryant. Lakers president Jerry West had already offered Divac to the
Nets for the eighth pick, but New Jersey turned it down.
As Nash recalls, he, then-coach John Calipari and then-owner Joseph Taub
discussed what to do. Nash wanted to call Bryant's bluff and take him
anyway; Calipari wanted to take Kerry Kittles (agent David Falk was
pleading with the club to select Kittles, just as Tellem was begging
them not to draft Bryant), while Taub wanted to take John Wallace to
fill a need at small forward.
Calipari had final say, and the Nets decided to pick Kittles with the
No. 8 pick.
"Arn Tellem had something to do with that. I don't know how much
leverage a 17-year old kid can have," Bryant said. "At that point in
time I was ready to play anywhere - Mars, Jupiter, New Jersey,
Charlotte, didn't matter." Perhaps the most entertaining account of the
saga comes (unsurprisingly) from Sonny Vaccaro, who was with Adidas at
the time, and wanted to make Bryant a centerpiece of the company's
basketball marketing. He told his version of the tale in rollicking
detail back in December on Chris Vernon's radio show in Memphis. It's a
highly recommended listen.
Vaccaro claims that Kobe's father, Joe Bryant, told the Nets brass on
the day of the draft that "Kobe wasn't going to go to New Jersey, he was
going to go to Italy." It was a plausible bluff, considering Kobe spent
a few years of his childhood in Italy when Joe played there. But Vaccaro
then said, "I doubt with the competitiveness of Kobe Bryant that he
would have gone to Italy. We'll never know."
Kobe wanted to go to L.A., it was clear. As Vaccaro said, "First of all,
it's Jerry West, and it's the guy on the [logo] and all that stuff. And
it's the Lakers. There is something to it. It wasn't like Jerry West was
with the Omaha Mushriders."
John Nash and John Calipari were every bit as accurate as Jerry West
was, but they did not have the power of the Lakers franchise behind
them. Yes, West was shrewd in his evaluation of Kobe Bryant, but without
the Lakers, he never would have landed him.
**********************
SHAQ
I have to admit that I started this piece very strongly believing that
Jerry West was overrated as a GM, but my research into the Shaq signing
has shifted my position a little bit. I carried the common misconception
that, because he signed for less money in L.A. than Orlando ultimately
offered, Shaq had planned all along to head to Hollywood no matter what.
In reality, it was a much bolder gamble by West which pushed the signing
forward in the summer of 1996. Though, still, the move was only
plausible because the L.A. Lakers were one of the few franchises with
the marquee value suitable for Shaq. He never woulda been goin' to
Memphis, no matter who was there.
Steve Springer did an outstanding job piecing together the Laker moves
of the pivotal "Summer of '96" for the L.A. Times back in 2001. Here's
an excerpt: Drafted by Orlando in 1992, he was a free agent at the end
of the 1995-96 season. It was assumed O'Neal, involved in the music and
movie business, and so enraptured with L.A. that he kept a car here
permanently, would be interested in the Lakers.
But to this day, his agent, Leonard Armato, insists the Magic was
O'Neal's first choice. "Shaq wanted to stay in Orlando," he says, "and
we were going to do whatever possible to ensure he stayed there."
No other team was allowed to even talk to O'Neal or Armato under league
rules until July 11, 1996. No earlier than 2 p.m., to be specific. By 3
p.m., Armato was in West's Bel-Air home.
West already had the first piece of his puzzle, having traded his
starting center, Vlade Divac, on June 26 in order to clear room under
the salary cap and obtain Kobe Bryant. But that had left the Lakers a
big hole in the middle. "It was nervous time," says Laker assistant
coach Bill Bertka. "We had traded our starting center to shoot for the
moon."
That's an apt description, according to Armato. "The stars must have
been truly aligned," he says. "For Shaq to wind up in Los Angeles was
purely fortuitous. It required a variety of circumstances to fall into
place."
The first of those circumstances was the Magic's initial offer to
O'Neal--four years at $54 million. "We were slightly disappointed," says
Armato in a heavy dose of understatement. "You would think that someone
who said they wanted to make a major commitment would extend the
contract as long as permissible under league rules." That would be seven
years.
"The [Orlando] media became so critical of the possible contract,"
Armato says. "The Orlando fans began to question whether Shaq was worth
the amount of money needed to sign him. It was one thing after another.
Shaq was disappointed. After that, we felt it was worth looking around.
We felt, from a business standpoint, it made sense to examine the
alternatives.
"That was the crack in the door. Jerry West kicked that door open and
ran right in." What he ran in with was a seven-year, $95.5-million
offer. Still, West had his doubts. He considered signing Dale Davis
instead. West warned owner Jerry Buss that getting O'Neal could be a
long and draining process, with no guarantee of success. Buss told West
to think big and keep his checkbook open.
On July 16, the Lakers traded Anthony Peeler and George Lynch to the
Vancouver Grizzlies for future considerations, basically giving the
players away to free up $3.63 million.
Finally, on July 18 at about 1 a.m. in an Atlanta hotel room in the
midst of the Olympics, O'Neal, a member of the U.S. dream team, signed a
dream deal with the Lakers, $120 million for seven years. At the end,
Orlando had come up with nearly the same money, but it was too late.
West described the magnitude of the signing as second only to the birth
of his children.
Armato found himself wandering the streets of Atlanta after O'Neal put
his name on the contract. "I didn't know what to do to celebrate,"
Armato says. "But I knew something special had happened, something
historic." Longtime Magic executive Pat Williams, the man of a million
books, had enormous amounts of praise for West in his book The Paradox
of Power: "We, of course, were trying to re-sign Shaq, and we weren't
overly concerned that we might lose him. Obviously, we thought, the
Lakers would have liked to sign him, but they couldn't; they didn't have
enough room under the salary cap.
We underestimated Jerry West's boldness as a strategic thinker.
...
The instant we heard that Lynch and Peeler were leaving L.A., we knew we
were in big trouble. The Lakers could now afford Shaquille O'Neal.
Within hours, the Lakers made their move. We got a call in the dark of
night from Shaq's agent, Leonard Armato, telling us that Shaq was going
to sign with the Lakers. We said, "Don't let him sign; we'll top the
Lakers' offer. And we did - but it didn't matter. Shaq had made up his
mind to go to L.A. and the Lakers' offer was close enough. ...
It had all been a huge gamble of Jerry's part - a complex chess game in
which he had traded away three starters for the chance (which was far
from guaranteed) that he would be able to acquire Kobe and Shaq. The
stakes were high, the odds were long, and the entire scheme could have
easily ended in disaster. ...
But Jerry West took his bold gamble and he won big time. It was the
boldest sports move I have seen in my entire career. Even though my team
was on the losing end of that deal, I had to admire the sheer chutzpah
of Jerry West. It wasn't fated, I'm a believer. West deserves a lot of
credit for making the Shaq signing happen, but again, if he hadn't been
with the L.A. Lakers, he never would have been in the conversation.
**********************
BEYOND THE SUPERSTARS
One area in which West was undeniably outstanding was in filling out his
championship teams with the right players around his superstars.
West grabbed franchise mainstay A.C. Green with a late first-round pick
in 1985, and then did the same with Derek Fisher in 1996. He boldly
replaced popular vet Norm Nixon with rookie Byron Scott in 1983.
And West also picked a good fit in going with James Worthy over
Dominique Wilkins and Terry Cummings with the no. 1 overall pick in the
1982 draft. Nique and Cummings were so good that I'm not sure either
would have derailed Showtime, but West's logic that Big Game James was a
better fit as a third wheel who didn't need the ball as much as
Dominique would have is plausibly sound.
Also, West was ahead of the curve on international players with his
selection of Vlade Divac in 1989, a great value pick late in the first
round.
One other note in When The Game Was Ours which jumped out at me was
about Bill Walton, when he was looking to change teams in the summer of
1985: "Walton contacted the Lakers first, but West was wary of his
medical issues, so Walton placed a call to Red Auerbach." Whoa - the key
acquisition which pushed the Celtics from Finals losers in 1985 to
all-time great in 1986 could have been negated by West.
That said, Walton was already broken down by 1986-87, when West made up
for that error with his trade for Mychal Thompson, seen as a Pau
Gasol-like fleecing of its time, which pushed the Lakers over the top to
an all-time great season of their own.
**********************
MEMPHIS
Some people note that West lifted the Grizzlies to their best seasons by
far during his tenure there. This is true, but it is also true that
Memphis never won a single playoff game there. First-round exits are not
what legendary GM status is made of. Just ask Kevin McHale.
West never got his superstar in Memphis, losing out on one of the
ultimate all-or-nothing NBA moments in the 2003 LeBron Lottery, when the
Grizzlies had to give their pick to Detroit if it was anything below no.
1. Of course, West was left empty-handed when Memphis ended up no. 2
(though Detroit arguably ended up with less-than-nothing in Darko
Milicic�).
My favorite moment, however, came after the 2007 draft lottery, right
before West stepped down as the Grizzlies general manager. Memphis had
the worst record in the league in 2006-07, but ended up just no. 4 in
the lottery. Afterward, West said, "It's grossly unfair to the team, but
I've said it before, I don't think the lottery is fair."
It has to be one of the richest comments in NBA history: Jerry West
complaining that things were unfair to him, after building a legend as a
executive on the back of the huge advantage of the L.A. market and
Lakers franchise.
**********************
CONTEXT
After all this, one thing which has made me more sympathetic to West is
trying to figure out who's been better, especially after looking back at
Kelly Dwyer's list of the top 10 GM's of the 2000s.
The list is headed by San Antonio's R.C. Buford. The Spurs' arc really
hasn't been much different than West's with the Lakers. They've done an
outstanding job of unearthing the right players to fill in around the
great fortune of winning two prized lotteries for David Robinson (1987)
and Tim Duncan (1997), without whom the rest wouldn't be possible.
Go back a decade, and Jerry Krause would be near the top. As good as he
was in building the Bulls' roster, the one essential thing he did was
inherit Michael Jordan.
Other guys on Kelly's list include Donnie Nelson and Kevin Pritchard,
GMs fortunate to have the advantage of largely unlimited spending.
Geoff Petrie and Joe Dumars both justifiably made the list as well. I
thought that both men did significantly more impressive jobs than West
in building their contenders and, in Dumars' case, champions in the
2000s. But Dumars has been atrocious in recent years, and Petrie has
seemed to have fallen behind the times in recent years. Neither has been
as consistent for as long as West was.
All in all, it shows that being fortunate in one way or another is a key
element of becoming legendary as an NBA GM (or as a coach, really). I
still think that Jerry West is overrated as a general manager, and I
still don't think he is the mythical figure he's made out to be as a
personnel man. But when I ask the question: "Who's been consistently
better than Jerry West in the post-merger era?", it's tough for me to
come up with anyone.
Sports Fan
VicXnews <ne...@news.com> wrote:
>Is Jerry West Overrated as a GM?
>by M. Haubs
>
>http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-jerry-west-overrated-as-gm.html
<Snip>
>MEMPHIS
>
>Some people note that West lifted the Grizzlies to their best seasons by
>far during his tenure there. This is true, but it is also true that
>Memphis never won a single playoff game there. First-round exits are not
>what legendary GM status is made of. Just ask Kevin McHale.
This alone proves that the author of this article is an idiot.
Ken Cheng
> In article <hu3ofu$cl...@news.eternal-september.org>> >http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-jerry-west-overrated-as...
>
> <Snip>
>
> >MEMPHIS
>
> >Some people note that West lifted the Grizzlies to their best seasons by
> >far during his tenure there. This is true, but it is also true that
> >Memphis never won a single playoff game there. First-round exits are not
> >what legendary GM status is made of. Just ask Kevin McHale.
>
> This alone proves that the author of this article is an idiot.
Actually, I thought it was a reasonably interesting and revealing
read, even though I disagree with the basic premise of the article.
Sure, L.A. and the Lakers have a cachet that no other NBA can match,
but cities and franchises still don't sell themselves to star
players. There still has to someone to guide them there and for
years, Jerry West was that man.
Furthermore, despite our early misgivings about him, Mitch Kupchak has
proven to be a worthy successor.
Neil Cerutti
> Is Jerry West Overrated as a GM?
> by M. Haubs
>
> http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-jerry-west-overrated-as-gm.html
>
> personnel, but I have tended to believe that West has
> ultimately been overrated as a GM because he had a huge
> advantage over the competition in working for the Lakers, the
> league's marquee franchise - the clear-cut no. 1 most
> attractive market to players, in terms of both city and team.
Silly. Even with massive unfair advantages, being as successful
as West's legacy in L.A. has been makes you worthy to be known as
the best GM.
If West is idubitably the best, is it even possible for him to be
overrated? I say no.
> This is my main beef with West as a GM: I've believed that the
> acquisitions of the superstars which keyed each of the two
> championship runs he presided over were acquired due to
> tremendous good fortune as much as West's acumen.
Nope. That's not a fair beef. Auerbach didn't want Bob Cousy,
either, and threw a shit-fit when the Celtics got his name in a
hat-drawing.
West's case is even better. He changed his mind!
> In the '80s, the two cornerstones were of course Magic, whom we
> just discussed, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who was acquired via
> trade in 1975. Let the record show that West was fortunate not
> only just because he inherited Kareem, but also because of the
> advantage of the L.A. market - Kareem specifically requested
> that he be traded to either New York or Los Angeles.
What about building the Kobe/Shaq three-peat, huh? Huh?
--
Neil Cerutti
*** You found a dead moose-rat. You sell the hide for $200. ***
Alson Wong
> Is Jerry West Overrated as a GM?
> by M. Haubs
>
> http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-jerry-west-overrated-as-gm.html
>
>
> said. "But I told them, 'It's Magic, or find yourself another
> buyer.'" Let's not underestimate Sidney Moncrief here - he was a hell
> of a player who may yet make it into the Hall of Fame, but it
> obviously would have been a serious error to draft him over Magic
> Johnson, and a setback to the efforts of building a championship
> Lakers team in the '80s. The fact that Buss and Sharman had to save
> West from himself here seems like a strike against the Logo.
It shouldn't be. West had just spent the past three years coaching the team.
He couldn't have been fully up to speed on the best draft prospects as you
would expect a full-time scout or GM to be, which he was not.
> **********************
> KOBE
>
> John Nash and John Calipari were every bit as accurate as Jerry West
> was, but they did not have the power of the Lakers franchise behind
> them. Yes, West was shrewd in his evaluation of Kobe Bryant, but
> without the Lakers, he never would have landed him.
>
> **********************
> SHAQ
>
> It had all been a huge gamble of Jerry's part - a complex chess game
> in which he had traded away three starters for the chance (which was
> far from guaranteed) that he would be able to acquire Kobe and Shaq.
> The stakes were high, the odds were long, and the entire scheme could
> have easily ended in disaster. ...
> But Jerry West took his bold gamble and he won big time. It was the
> boldest sports move I have seen in my entire career. Even though my
> team was on the losing end of that deal, I had to admire the sheer
> chutzpah of Jerry West. It wasn't fated, I'm a believer. West
> deserves a lot of credit for making the Shaq signing happen, but
> again, if he hadn't been with the L.A. Lakers, he never would have
> been in the conversation.
Shaq and Kobe could have gone to the Clippers or Knicks or Nets if they
wanted to, but the Lakers had just come off a 53-29 season and had a team
with good, young, talented players (Van Exel, Jones, Ceballos, Campbell).
Sure, L.A. has its advantages on its own, but West had to ALREADY HAVE A
GOOD TEAM in place in order for it to be an attractive destination. Only two
seasons before, they missed the playoffs with a 33-49 record. During the
summer that followed, West took Jones with the only lottery pick he ever had
at #10 and became an All-Star, and traded for another All-Star in Cedric
Ceballos. The team finished 48-34 and advanced to the second round of the
playoffs.
West's best decision ever as GM wasn't even mentioned: his refusal to trade
Worthy for Mark Aguirre and Roy Tarpley, after the Lakers lost to the
Rockets in the 1986 WCF. Buss had the deal in place, but West threatened to
resign, and Buss backed off. How many other GMs would have had the balls and
the clout to take such a firm stand against their owner? Some other moves by
West that weren't mentioned:
Signing Sam Perkins as a free agent.
Drafting Elden Campbell at #27.
Acquiring Sedale Threatt for three second-round picks.
Drafting Anthony Peeler at #15.
Drafting Nick Van Exel at #37.
Trading Ceballos for Robert Horry.
Signing Rick Fox as a free agent.
Alson Wong
>
> Furthermore, despite our early misgivings about him, Mitch Kupchak has
> proven to be a worthy successor.
Yep. Besides the obvious (Gasol), he's been able to get useful players late
in the draft (Walton, Turiaf, Farmar, Vujacic) and upgraded the team with
other trades (Ariza for Evans and Cook, Brown and Morrison for Radmanovic).
VicXnews
news:syhNn.93219$0B5....@newsfe05.iad:
great write up Alson...thanks
I'm guessing he should have consulted you first but it sounds like he had
his mind made up and used just the facts that fit his view
Ken Cheng
> VicXnews wrote:
> > Is Jerry West Overrated as a GM?
> > by M. Haubs
>
I like most of Jerry West's moves as our GM, but the one absolute dud
he had was Sam Perkins for Doug Christie and Benoit Benjamin. I still
occasionally shake my head at that one.
holyrune
GM (or is over-rated) then who among his contemparies are better or at
his level?
The usual names:
Geoff Petrie (SAC) - He had a good run w/ Webber/Vlade/Bibby but that
team has been lottery-bound since. Making a comeback w/ Evans.
Scott Layden (UT-NY) - People gave him a ton of credit for Utah's
success, which he parlayed into the NY gig, only to be followed by
perhaps the worst GM in history, Isiah Thomas.
Rod Thorn (Chi-NJ) - Got Jordan. Did well in NJ early, then total
falloff.
Jerry Krause (Chi) - Got Pippen/Grant/role players to play w/ Jordan.
Then broke up dynasty for cap room (got rebuffed by Eddie Jones) and
drafting Brand + Artest only to rebuild again w/ Eddie Curry + Tyson
Chandler.
Daryl Morey (Hou) - Sabermatrics Basketball Stats guy. Incomplete.
RC Buford (SA) + disciples (Presti has done well w/ OKC, and Pritchard
drafted Oden + troubles w/ POR owner) - gets a lot of credit for
Duncan and then drafting Parker + Ginobli late. But traded Scola +
Dragic (who killed them) and signed Jefferson.
Let's put his Laker career to the side and just look at Memphis. I
thought he did well in getting Gasol, Bonzi Wells, Mike Miller,
Battier, Posey, Watson, and churning a couple of 50-win teams. His
only mistake was Drew Gooden. He needed luck in that draft, after
Memphis had the worst record, to get Lebron. He gets lucky--all GM's
and teams need that in the end--and gets Lebron, we may be talking
about Memphis as championship contenders.
> West's best decision ever as GM wasn't even mentioned: his refusal to trade
> Worthy for Mark Aguirre and Roy Tarpley, after the Lakers lost to the
> Rockets in the 1986 WCF. Buss had the deal in place, but West threatened to
> resign, and Buss backed off. How many other GMs would have had the balls and
> the clout to take such a firm stand against their owner?
This may be just a trade rumor, but my brother was adament that West
almost traded Worthy for Hakeem in 90 or 91 (and probably before his
call girl fiasco). This was when Hakeem wanted out of Houston and
Worthy was still an All-Star putting up 20 a game. Buss refused out
of loyalty or so it goes. Worthy was before my time. I only remember
bits and pieces. My very first live game, at the Forum, involved him
hitting a 3 against Philly to send the game into OT when I was 7 or
8. Of course, with Worthy there are a lot of what-ifs, such as
whether West should have drafted Dominique Wilkins instead.
Ken Cheng
>
> This may be just a trade rumor, but my brother was adament that West
> almost traded Worthy for Hakeem in 90 or 91 (and probably before his
> call girl fiasco). This was when Hakeem wanted out of Houston and
> Worthy was still an All-Star putting up 20 a game.
Now that you mention it, I remember some discussion to that effect at
the time. I don't think West ever had anything against Big Game
James, but for some strange reason, Jerry always seemed eager to trade
Worthy for other talent.
I'm glad he didn't, though; Big Game James came through for the Lakers
in so many playoff battles. Had he been healthy in '91, the Bulls
might not have taken that series.
Chainsaw
I always thought the offer was Scott, Green, and Vlade for Hakeem;
didn't think Worthy was on the table.
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice,
but in practice there is.
Alson Wong
>
> I like most of Jerry West's moves as our GM, but the one absolute dud
> he had was Sam Perkins for Doug Christie and Benoit Benjamin. I still
> occasionally shake my head at that one.
He was able to trade Benoit Benjamin for Sam Bowie, who was a pretty good
player. Also, when a team's rebuilding, it's not always a bad thing to trade
away talent.
Ken Cheng
True, but we didn't acquire too many high draft picks that way during
the lean years of the mid-1990s.
The highest pick we had that decade was # 10 in 1994 (from which we
got Eddie Jones), but that was because we were in the lotto that
year.
Ken Cheng
I remember it being Worthy. Three for one, even for Hakeem, seems
like really uneven trade. Green was conceivably replaceable by Elden
Campbell, and we still had Sam Perkins at that point, but trading away
Byron would have left us *really* thin at guard. The guard position
was really thin for the Lakers in '91. We had Magic, Byron, Larry
Drew, and Tony Smith. That was it. Guard thinness was just one of
several problems the Lakers had against the Bulls in the '91 Finals.
Gary Collard
> The ensuing question to this writer should be, if West isn't the best
> GM (or is over-rated) then who among his contemparies are better or at
> his level?
>
> The usual names:
> Geoff Petrie (SAC) - He had a good run w/ Webber/Vlade/Bibby but that
> team has been lottery-bound since. Making a comeback w/ Evans.
> Scott Layden (UT-NY) - People gave him a ton of credit for Utah's
> success, which he parlayed into the NY gig, only to be followed by
> perhaps the worst GM in history, Isiah Thomas.
> Rod Thorn (Chi-NJ) - Got Jordan. Did well in NJ early, then total
> falloff.
> Jerry Krause (Chi) - Got Pippen/Grant/role players to play w/ Jordan.
> Then broke up dynasty for cap room (got rebuffed by Eddie Jones) and
> drafting Brand + Artest only to rebuild again w/ Eddie Curry + Tyson
> Chandler.
> Daryl Morey (Hou) - Sabermatrics Basketball Stats guy. Incomplete.
> RC Buford (SA) + disciples (Presti has done well w/ OKC, and Pritchard
> drafted Oden + troubles w/ POR owner) - gets a lot of credit for
> Duncan and then drafting Parker + Ginobli late. But traded Scola +
> Dragic (who killed them) and signed Jefferson.
>
> Let's put his Laker career to the side and just look at Memphis. I
> thought he did well in getting Gasol, Bonzi Wells, Mike Miller,
> Battier, Posey, Watson, and churning a couple of 50-win teams.
He inherited Gasol, who was easily the best player on that team, as well
as starting PG Jason Williams and consummate role player Battier. But
he did add some role players around them (Miller, Posey, Wells).
But the most important thing he added, and what turned that team around,
was Hubie Brown. That was easily West's best move as a Grizz.
--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard at yahoo dot com
http://twitter.com/LakerGMC
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/
"The reality of net neutrality makes as much sense as mandating that
tricycle riders have the same rights and privileges as cars and trucks
on our roads � highway neutrality." -- David Harsanyi
Chainsaw
Scott was useless against Jordan. Tony Smith did a much better job
defending him, though no guard in the league would have made an
appreciable difference.
IAC it would have been easier to replace Scott than Worthy.
Huang Gang
>
> "The reality of net neutrality makes as much sense as mandating that
> tricycle riders have the same rights and privileges as cars and trucks
And that idiot who wrote the piece would probably said it was because
Jerry West's Lakers past that Hubie signed for it.......