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OT: One we can all agree on
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Gary Collard  
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 More options May 20 2008, 2:59 pm
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: Gary Collard <d...@ddd.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 18:59:54 GMT
Local: Tues, May 20 2008 2:59 pm
Subject: OT: One we can all agree on
Presumably, at least - the stupidity of the push and subsidies for ethanol:

---

Why are we doing something so maliciously stupid?

By Jack Kelly

World food prices have risen 83 percent in the last three years, the World
Bank says. Food riots could endanger stability of governments in 33
countries, estimated the World Bank's president, Robert Zoellick.

This burgeoning global catastrophe has many causes. Rising populations and
incomes in China and India have increased demand for food. A drought in
Australia has sent the price of wheat soaring. Our weak dollar has caused
nations which hold lots of them to buy up commodities, which hold their value.

But the two biggest culprits, says the International Food Policy Research
Institute, are soaring prices of oil and petroleum based fertilizer, which
increase the cost of growing and transporting food, and biofuels. The IFPR
says biofuels are responsible for a quarter to a third of the rise in food
prices.

That proportion soon will increase. Congress has ordered a 500 percent
increase in biofuels by 2022. The European Union has mandated that 5.75
percent of all gasoline and diesel fuel must come from biofuels by 2010.

It is economically, environmentally, and morally insane to use food for
fuel. Corn-based ethanol, the principal U.S. biofuel, is the worst
offender. Even with oil priced at more than $110 a barrel, it takes a 51
cent a gallon subsidy to make corn ethanol competitive with gasoline. And
even with the subsidy, gasoline mixed with ethanol costs drivers 20 to 30
cents a gallon more than regular gasoline, the American Automobile
Association said, because ethanol has one third less energy per gallon than
regular gas.

It takes 29 percent more fossil energy to produce corn ethanol than the
ethanol will provide, according to a 2005 study conducted principally by
Cornell University ecologist David Pimentel.

Because of its tendency to absorb water, ethanol cannot be transported by
metal pipeline, as most gasoline and diesel fuel is.

Ethanol increases two of the most dangerous air pollutants — volatile
organic compounds (VOC) and nitrogen oxides (NOx) by four to seven percent
over gasoline, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. Together,
VOC and NOx cause thousands of premature deaths each year, the EPA said.

I'm skeptical about man-made global warming. But if it's a problem, ethanol
production exacerbates it. NOx is a greenhouse gas with 296 times the
warming potential of carbon dioxide. A study led by Nobel laureate Paul
Crutzon estimates that NOx emissions from corn production cause up to 50
percent more warming than the substitution of ethanol for gasoline avoids.

The problem worsens if land is cleared for planting of fuel crops, because
nothing soaks up carbon dioxide like trees. Deforestation isn't a concern
in the U.S., but it's a major problem in Brazil and Indonesia.

Let's sum up. Corn-based ethanol costs much more than petroleum does, even
at present prices. About as much energy is used in its production as it
provides. It harms the environment. Diverting food crops to ethanol sends
food prices soaring. Why are we doing something so maliciously stupid?

Politics, of course. Corn is grown in Iowa. Iowa is a swing state, and
holds the nation's first presidential nominating contest.

The favors our politicians do for the corn ethanol producers goes beyond
subsidies and mandates. Corn-based ethanol is a terrible idea, but there is
something to be said for ethanol made from sugar cane. Sugar ethanol
provides eight times the energy of the fossil fuel required to make it, and
emits fewer greenhouse gases than corn ethanol. And though sugar is a food,
it isn't a staple, so sugar ethanol doesn't exert the upward pressure on
food prices that corn ethanol does. Yet we've slapped a 54 cent a gallon
tariff on sugar ethanol imports from Brazil, the world's largest producer.

We should end all subsidies and mandates for corn ethanol production. If
ethanol can't compete with oil when oil is $110 a barrel, it shouldn't be
part of our energy mix. And we should repeal the tariff on sugar ethanol.

Last week Sen. John McCain and 23 other GOP senators asked the EPA to
loosen congressional ethanol mandates. Sen. Barack Obama indicated he's
rethinking his position.

"My top priority is making sure people get enough to eat," Sen. Obama said
Sunday. "If it turns out we need to make changes in our ethanol policy to
help people get something to eat, that has got to be the step we take."

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcoll...@yahoo.com
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/

"They don't pose a serious threat to us." -- Barack Obama on Iran,
speaking in Portland, Oregon on May 18

"I've made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave."
  -- Barack Obama speaking in Billings, Montana on May 19


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Discussion subject changed to "One we can all agree on" by Jeff Mayner
Jeff Mayner  
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 More options May 20 2008, 3:53 pm
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: "Jeff Mayner" <jeffmay...@sillyahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:53:58 -0700
Local: Tues, May 20 2008 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: One we can all agree on

"Gary Collard" <d...@ddd.com> wrote in message

news:KcFYj.3053$dh.943@trnddc05...

> Presumably, at least - the stupidity of the push and subsidies for
> ethanol:

> ---

> Why are we doing something so maliciously stupid?

> By Jack Kelly

<snip>

From the posted article:

"I'm skeptical about man-made global warming."

I agree that ethanol is not the answer but to say this blows the author's
overall credibility right out his rightwing paid asshole.

In my opinion of course.


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David Goldberg  
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 More options May 20 2008, 10:02 pm
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: "David Goldberg" <daagoldb...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 02:02:04 GMT
Local: Tues, May 20 2008 10:02 pm
Subject: Re: One we can all agree on

"Gary Collard" <d...@ddd.com> wrote in message

news:KcFYj.3053$dh.943@trnddc05...

> That proportion soon will increase. Congress has ordered a 500 percent
> increase in biofuels by 2022. The European Union has mandated that 5.75
> percent of all gasoline and diesel fuel must come from biofuels by 2010.

Our Democrat-controlled Congress passes a feel-good measure that's supposed
to manipulate the market into going away from oil.  Of course the Law of
Unintended Consequences always rears its head and shows the idiot liberal
do-gooders that central planning never works because it inevitably creates
shortages in some other area.  In this case, food.

So the Democrats basically passed a massive tax increase on the world's
poor.


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David Goldberg  
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 More options May 20 2008, 10:05 pm
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: "David Goldberg" <daagoldb...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 02:05:49 GMT
Local: Tues, May 20 2008 10:05 pm
Subject: Re: One we can all agree on

"Jeff Mayner" <jeffmay...@sillyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:g0va8k$sf0$1@news.datemas.de...

Peer-reviewed study published in the December 2007 issue of the
International Journal of Climatology shows that global warming is natural
and not caused by man:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/908

"Climate scientists at the University of Rochester, the University of
Alabama, and the University of Virginia report that observed patterns of
temperature changes (‘fingerprints’) over the last thirty years are not in
accord with what greenhouse models predict and can better be explained by
natural factors, such as solar variability. Therefore, climate change is
‘unstoppable’ and cannot be affected or modified by controlling the emission
of greenhouse gases, such as CO2, as is proposed in current legislation."


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Terraholm  
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 More options May 20 2008, 10:25 pm
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 19:25:31 -0700
Local: Tues, May 20 2008 10:25 pm
Subject: Re: One we can all agree on

http://seekingalpha.com/article/76446-g-7-central-bankers-stymied-by-...

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Terraholm  
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 More options May 20 2008, 10:35 pm
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 19:35:18 -0700
Local: Tues, May 20 2008 10:35 pm
Subject: Re: One we can all agree on

David Goldberg wrote:
> course the Law of Unintended Consequences always rears its head and
> shows the idiot liberal do-gooders

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hkAVZnctXZPPpPl5LDDahWnQzHagD90OV9500

Bush administration defends food-based biofuels
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Bush administration is defending its decision to push
food-based biofuels as food costs rise at home and abroad, saying the
renewable fuels are only a small part of the problem.

Some have blamed the food crisis in part on policies backed by the White
House and Congress that divert corn, soybeans and other crops to fuel.

Agriculture Secretary Ed Schafer said Monday that the increased use of
biofuels may have some small, short-term costs, but those do not outweigh
the ultimate benefits of reducing the country's dependence on oil.

"It's clear that while bioenergy generation does have some effect on prices,
it's not a major effect, it's not even a big effect," Schafer said.


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Swillabrew  
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 More options May 21 2008, 11:34 am
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: "Swillabrew" <donts...@any.net>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 08:34:06 -0700
Local: Wed, May 21 2008 11:34 am
Subject: Re: One we can all agree on
"Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:69hg3hF31nneqU1@mid.individual.net...

Just more excuses to drill ANWR.  These fucking oil barons will never give
up on the opportunity to squeeze as much money as they can out of the
planet, regardless of the limited amount of oil actually produced or the
environmental damage done.

If there really is a God, He will see to it that Bush, Cheney, et al. spend
eternity burning in a waist-deep pool of Exxon's highest grade while wearing
Enron t-shirts & eating Halliburton leftovers from Iraq.  Cocksuckers, one &
all.

Go Blazers !


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Gary Collard  
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 More options May 21 2008, 2:55 pm
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: Gary Collard <d...@ddd.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 18:55:21 GMT
Local: Wed, May 21 2008 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: One we can all agree on

Wow, even skepticism is not allowed?  What is the punishment in your
circles for failing to think as ordered?

I never took you for the deeply religious, anti-science type.

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcoll...@yahoo.com
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/

"They don't pose a serious threat to us." -- Barack Obama on Iran,
speaking in Portland, Oregon on May 18

"I've made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave."
  -- Barack Obama speaking in Billings, Montana on May 19


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Gary Collard  
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 More options May 21 2008, 2:57 pm
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: Gary Collard <d...@ddd.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 18:57:58 GMT
Local: Wed, May 21 2008 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: One we can all agree on

This is, unfortunately, a bipartisan thing.  Farmers in Iowa, home to the
caucuses that can make or break presidential candidates, are more important
to politicians than the world's poor.

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcoll...@yahoo.com
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/

"They don't pose a serious threat to us." -- Barack Obama on Iran,
speaking in Portland, Oregon on May 18

"I've made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave."
  -- Barack Obama speaking in Billings, Montana on May 19


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Terraholm  
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 More options May 21 2008, 5:53 pm
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:53:38 -0700
Local: Wed, May 21 2008 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: One we can all agree on

Swillabrew wrote:
> "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> Just more excuses to drill ANWR.  These fucking oil barons will never
> give up on the opportunity to squeeze as much money as they can out
> of the planet, regardless of the limited amount of oil actually
> produced or the environmental damage done.

ANWR...in 10 years will up the supply to lower the price one to two cents...

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Swillabrew  
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(1 user)  More options May 21 2008, 6:55 pm
Newsgroups: alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers
From: "Swillabrew" <donts...@any.net>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:55:58 -0700
Local: Wed, May 21 2008 6:55 pm
Subject: Re: One we can all agree on

Terraholm wrote:
> Swillabrew wrote:
>> "Terraholm" <TerraholmSPAM...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>> Just more excuses to drill ANWR.  These fucking oil barons will never
>> give up on the opportunity to squeeze as much money as they can out
>> of the planet, regardless of the limited amount of oil actually
>> produced or the environmental damage done.

> ANWR...in 10 years will up the supply to lower the price one to two
> cents...

And will take longer to get up & pumping than it will actually pump before
running dry.  Like I said, a few get rich while the rest of us get screwed.
Typical play book stuff from the same team that brought us Iraq.

Go Blazers !


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