Hey BrandEintein - Fresh Gound MOOSE Burgers FOR SALE !!!
Ironside
Shades of Kevin Brown. The Yankmees are tankin and Bosux coming to town.
Have a great weekend!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
theBZA
wrote in news:ypXAi.481$Sd4...@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com:
I've been bagging on Mussina for 3 years now. Last year and the year
before, asbnyy'ers all called me an idiot. Now they think Moose sucks.
Yankees will beat the Sox and they will take the WC.
--
Crippled but free
I was blind all the time
I was learning to see.
mozark
Let me repeat that: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Not this year, pal. No way.
(Better turn toward the 31-51 Lakers.)
theBZA
@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
Seattle is a scant 2 game ahead in the wildcard.
theBZA
Boy those Angels sure look good tonight so far. Anway, let me give all
the props you deserve for knowing exactly how to make a Yankee fan
feel bad. I mean really. The Yankees are in danger of failing to win
the division for the first time in 10 years and maybe missing the
playoffs for the first time in 13. That really hurts. I'm sure it's
much better having a team like the Angels who only make the playoffs
every few years. BTW, how's the farm system doing? Yankees AAA, AA and
top A all have the best records in their leagues - AA Trenton clinched
their division yesterday - despite the fact that guys have been moving
up the tiers all season. And another A team (Staten Island) is going
to be WC in their league. Yeah - it sucks. The Yankees might actually
fail to win the division again next year before they stock the ML
roster with farm hands who will form the core of another decade-long
winner. Boy it sucks to be a Yankee fan.
Ironside
"theBZA" <dew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1188355889.5...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 28, 11:44 am, "Ironside"
> <old_irons...@SPAMREALLYSUXhotmail.com.REMOVECAPSTOREPLY> wrote:
>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
>>
>> Shades of Kevin Brown. The Yankmees are tankin and Bosux coming to town.
>> Have a great weekend!
>>
>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
>
> Boy those Angels sure look good tonight so far.
Didn't they? Came back from a 5-0 deficit to take a 4 game lead in the
division.
> Anway, let me give all
> the props you deserve for knowing exactly how to make a Yankee fan
> feel bad. I mean really. The Yankees are in danger of failing to win
> the division for the first time in 10 years and maybe missing the
> playoffs for the first time in 13. That really hurts. I'm sure it's
> much better having a team like the Angels who only make the playoffs
> every few years.
Yeah, every few years when they blow the Yankmees out of the playoffs.
> BTW, how's the farm system doing? Yankees AAA, AA and
> top A all have the best records in their leagues - AA Trenton clinched
> their division yesterday - despite the fact that guys have been moving
> up the tiers all season. And another A team (Staten Island) is going
> to be WC in their league. Yeah - it sucks. The Yankees might actually
> fail to win the division again next year before they stock the ML
> roster with farm hands who will form the core of another decade-long
> winner. Boy it sucks to be a Yankee fan.
Let's see. The Angels farm system has been too busy actually making
contributions this year to a first place team that they haven't fielded as
strong a team as they might have but the last time I checked the AAA
afilliate was still in first place. Despite a revolving door on the DL the
Angels have regularly called up minor leaguers who help the club, so much so
that we were able to dump a backup catcher (Jose Molina) and replace him
with a minor league prospect (Jeff mathis) who happened to throw out Ichiro
tonite trying to steal. Let's see, when Colon went down we called up
Saunders. We're also getting production from Kotchman, Kendrick, Aybar,
Willits, Weaver, Bootcheck and Mosely; all guys who have been promoted from
the minors in the past season or two. So while you're flaunting a farm
system that shows potential, the Angels are actually getting winning big
league results from theirs.
>
theBZA
wrote in news:Yx9Bi.4147$JD....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net:
>
> "theBZA" <dew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1188355889.5...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 28, 11:44 am, "Ironside"
>> <old_irons...@SPAMREALLYSUXhotmail.com.REMOVECAPSTOREPLY> wrote:
>>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
>>>
>>> Shades of Kevin Brown. The Yankmees are tankin and Bosux coming to
>>> town. Have a great weekend!
>>>
>>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
>>
>> Boy those Angels sure look good tonight so far.
>
> Didn't they? Came back from a 5-0 deficit to take a 4 game lead in the
> division.
>
Very nice indeed. About time they did something to help the Yankees
after rolling over and dying for the Redsox.
>> Anway, let me give all
>> the props you deserve for knowing exactly how to make a Yankee fan
>> feel bad. I mean really. The Yankees are in danger of failing to win
>> the division for the first time in 10 years and maybe missing the
>> playoffs for the first time in 13. That really hurts. I'm sure it's
>> much better having a team like the Angels who only make the playoffs
>> every few years.
>
> Yeah, every few years when they blow the Yankmees out of the playoffs.
>
Honestly, wouldn't you trade "every few years" for "12 consecutive
playoff appearances"?
>> BTW, how's the farm system doing? Yankees AAA, AA and
>> top A all have the best records in their leagues - AA Trenton
>> clinched their division yesterday - despite the fact that guys have
>> been moving up the tiers all season. And another A team (Staten
>> Island) is going to be WC in their league. Yeah - it sucks. The
>> Yankees might actually fail to win the division again next year
>> before they stock the ML roster with farm hands who will form the
>> core of another decade-long winner. Boy it sucks to be a Yankee fan.
>
>
> Let's see. The Angels farm system has been too busy actually making
> contributions this year to a first place team that they haven't
> fielded as strong a team as they might have but the last time I
> checked the AAA afilliate was still in first place. Despite a
> revolving door on the DL the Angels have regularly called up minor
> leaguers who help the club, so much so that we were able to dump a
> backup catcher (Jose Molina) and replace him with a minor league
> prospect (Jeff mathis) who happened to throw out Ichiro tonite trying
> to steal. Let's see, when Colon went down we called up Saunders. We're
> also getting production from Kotchman, Kendrick, Aybar, Willits,
> Weaver, Bootcheck and Mosely; all guys who have been promoted from the
> minors in the past season or two. So while you're flaunting a farm
> system that shows potential, the Angels are actually getting winning
> big league results from theirs.
>
Yes indeed. Those stellar callups have contributed to an impressive 78-
54 record. All of 5 games better than the utterly dreadful Yankees.
Perspective sucks, no?
BTW, the Yanks aren't exactly hurting in the call up department. They
called up Cabrera a couple seasons ago as a fill-in right fielder and
the guy is rapidly developing into an all-star centerfielder. And with
Phillips at first, the Yankees are in the dreadful position of have too
many DH's. You think some team out there that feels the need for a
little veteran pop might want Giambi or Damon? Maybe Seattle? And that
Joba guy - he sure doesn't look much like ML material, does he? And that
CLippard guy - he looked pretty good for a while after coming almost
straight from AA Trenton. Yeah he hit a rough spot but that's not too
surprising considering he was in low-A 2 seasons ago.
SO yeah, the Angels called a bunch of guys up and are 5 games ahead of
the Yankees in the overall standings. Meanwhile, their AAA team in Salt
Lake is barely holding on to first place; AA Arkansas is 8 games under
.500 and top-A Rancho Cucamonga is 13 games out. 3 of the Yankees top 4
minor league teams hold the best records in their leagues (Trenton
already clinched their division) and the fourth has the second best
record in their league. Every single one of the Yankees minor league
teams is over .500. Oh yeah, the GCL Yanks are in that league's finals.
I'm sure the Angels would hate to have that kind of "potential" in their
farm.
And Ian Kennedy starts on Saturday.
Ironside
"theBZA" <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns999B6C034177Ade...@130.133.1.4...
> "Ironside" <old_ir...@SPAMREALLYSUXhotmail.com.REMOVECAPSTOREPLY>
> wrote in news:Yx9Bi.4147$JD....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net:
>
>>
>> "theBZA" <dew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1188355889.5...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Aug 28, 11:44 am, "Ironside"
>>> <old_irons...@SPAMREALLYSUXhotmail.com.REMOVECAPSTOREPLY> wrote:
>>>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
>>>>
>>>> Shades of Kevin Brown. The Yankmees are tankin and Bosux coming to
>>>> town. Have a great weekend!
>>>>
>>>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
>>>
>>> Boy those Angels sure look good tonight so far.
>>
>> Didn't they? Came back from a 5-0 deficit to take a 4 game lead in the
>> division.
>>
> Very nice indeed. About time they did something to help the Yankees
> after rolling over and dying for the Redsox.
They took 2-out-of-3. The Yanks are gonna have to earn some of it
themselves.
>
>>> Anway, let me give all
>>> the props you deserve for knowing exactly how to make a Yankee fan
>>> feel bad. I mean really. The Yankees are in danger of failing to win
>>> the division for the first time in 10 years and maybe missing the
>>> playoffs for the first time in 13. That really hurts. I'm sure it's
>>> much better having a team like the Angels who only make the playoffs
>>> every few years.
>>
>> Yeah, every few years when they blow the Yankmees out of the playoffs.
>>
> Honestly, wouldn't you trade "every few years" for "12 consecutive
> playoff appearances"?
Honestly, since Scioscia became manager in 2001, they've made playoff
appearances in 2002, 2004 and 2005 and so far are in control of their
destiny this year.
Let's add some perspective shall we? The Angels are at least $100 million
lighter in payroll than the Yanks. Boras is going to present Cashman with an
AROD invoice for a minimum of $105 million for a 3 year extension.
>
> BTW, the Yanks aren't exactly hurting in the call up department. They
> called up Cabrera a couple seasons ago as a fill-in right fielder and
> the guy is rapidly developing into an all-star centerfielder.
Just imagine, Juan Rivera in right field instead of Abreu. Too bad huh? I
hope Javier Vasquez was worth the rent money.
> And with
> Phillips at first, the Yankees are in the dreadful position of have too
> many DH's. You think some team out there that feels the need for a
> little veteran pop might want Giambi or Damon? Maybe Seattle?
Seriously doubt there would be any takers for Giambi, even if the Yanks pick
up half his contract. The Mariners already have enough overpaid FAs as well
(Beltre, Sexson, Washburn, Weaver). They also have a $100 million extension
they just signed Ichiro to, so why would they want Damon? The Dodgers on the
otherhand are becoming notorious at adding overpaid veterans in the twilight
of their careers.
> And that
> Joba guy - he sure doesn't look much like ML material, does he? And that
> CLippard guy - he looked pretty good for a while after coming almost
> straight from AA Trenton. Yeah he hit a rough spot but that's not too
> surprising considering he was in low-A 2 seasons ago.
>
> SO yeah, the Angels called a bunch of guys up and are 5 games ahead of
> the Yankees in the overall standings. Meanwhile, their AAA team in Salt
> Lake is barely holding on to first place; AA Arkansas is 8 games under
> .500 and top-A Rancho Cucamonga is 13 games out. 3 of the Yankees top 4
> minor league teams hold the best records in their leagues (Trenton
> already clinched their division) and the fourth has the second best
> record in their league. Every single one of the Yankees minor league
> teams is over .500. Oh yeah, the GCL Yanks are in that league's finals.
> I'm sure the Angels would hate to have that kind of "potential" in their
> farm.
>
If there's anything Angel fans do understand it's "farm potential". The
debate has raged for 3 seasons on whether the Angels should trade their
"farm potential" for aroven major league hitter. Bill Stoneman despite
tremendous fan pressure has resisted making trades. It's beginning to look
like that patience is paying off. But one can argue that patience cost the
Angels a trip to the WS in 2005 and missing the postseason in 2006. I wonder
how patient Yankmee fans will be when/if the Evil Empire decides to make a
youth movement. I wonder how happy AROD and Jeter will be to see their
twilights wasted on rebuilding? I don't believe Steinbrenner has that kind
of patience.
theBZA
wrote in news:u2gBi.564$ZA5...@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com:
3 out of last 6 years? I guess that's OK for some.
>> Yes indeed. Those stellar callups have contributed to an impressive
>> 78- 54 record. All of 5 games better than the utterly dreadful
>> Yankees. Perspective sucks, no?
>
> Let's add some perspective shall we? The Angels are at least $100
> million lighter in payroll than the Yanks. Boras is going to present
> Cashman with an AROD invoice for a minimum of $105 million for a 3
> year extension.
>
Since the Yankees are still the highest profit team in MLB even with a
bloated payroll, and since there is no salary cap, this is not
"perspective" it is "irrelevant." If the Yankees sign ARod, great. Love
to have him. If not, oh well. There are plenty of 3B's in the farm
system.
>>
>> BTW, the Yanks aren't exactly hurting in the call up department. They
>> called up Cabrera a couple seasons ago as a fill-in right fielder and
>> the guy is rapidly developing into an all-star centerfielder.
>
> Just imagine, Juan Rivera in right field instead of Abreu. Too bad
> huh? I hope Javier Vasquez was worth the rent money.
>
Abreu has played mostly great for the Yankees. As for Vaszquez, again,
payroll has no meaning in baseball.
>> And with
>> Phillips at first, the Yankees are in the dreadful position of have
>> too many DH's. You think some team out there that feels the need for
>> a little veteran pop might want Giambi or Damon? Maybe Seattle?
>
> Seriously doubt there would be any takers for Giambi, even if the
> Yanks pick up half his contract. The Mariners already have enough
> overpaid FAs as well (Beltre, Sexson, Washburn, Weaver). They also
> have a $100 million extension they just signed Ichiro to, so why would
> they want Damon? The Dodgers on the otherhand are becoming notorious
> at adding overpaid veterans in the twilight of their careers.
>
Giambi has had a solid year. Damon has been good despite stints on the
DL. This is baseball we're talking about. If the Yankees put either up
for trade, there will be a line of teams waiting for them.
Worst case scenario is missing the POs this year and next. 2 years from
now, they are out from under several contracts and have literally 6
pitching prospects and 10 hitting prospects all of whom will be ready
for the ML. They can be brought up or traded for veteran talent. Yankee
fans are probably the least impatient fans in ML - we remember 1982-
1993. The team still drew the most (or second most to the Dodgers) every
year in that span.
Ironside
> "Ironside" <old_irons...@SPAMREALLYSUXhotmail.com.REMOVECAPSTOREPLY>
> wrote innews:u2gBi.564$ZA5...@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "theBZA" <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:Xns999B6C034177Ade...@130.133.1.4...
> >> "Ironside" <old_irons...@SPAMREALLYSUXhotmail.com.REMOVECAPSTOREPLY>
> >> wrote innews:Yx9Bi.4147$JD....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net:
>
> >>> "theBZA" <dewe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
The Angels have built a team from their farm system that appears to be
in position to contend for the next several seasons. As a fan and as a
season ticket holder, that's all I really expect from team management
is a commitment to fielding a team that can compete at a high level.
The Angels have made that commitment every year. What makes this extra
special is that even with all the injuries, and there have been many,
the farm system has delivered the depth needed to stay in a pennant
race. They Angels have also played this entire season without their
second best power bat in Juan Rivera. He is finding his swing in Salt
Lake and should be called up this weekend. If he can make a
contribution in September, watch out. The Angels will be a team to
reckon with. I like the Angels chances of being a thorn in the Yankees
sides for years to come.
>
> >> Yes indeed. Those stellar callups have contributed to an impressive
> >> 78- 54 record. All of 5 games better than the utterly dreadful
> >> Yankees. Perspective sucks, no?
>
> > Let's add some perspective shall we? The Angels are at least $100
> > million lighter in payroll than the Yanks. Boras is going to present
> > Cashman with an AROD invoice for a minimum of $105 million for a 3
> > year extension.
>
> Since the Yankees are still the highest profit team in MLB even with a
> bloated payroll, and since there is no salary cap, this is not
> "perspective" it is "irrelevant." If the Yankees sign ARod, great. Love
> to have him. If not, oh well. There are plenty of 3B's in the farm
> system.
>
LOL, if they can't afford to lose AROD. Especially when you consider
that they gave up Soriano to get him. Personally I hope they extend
AROD. I'd much rather see the Rangers hamstrung by that contract
through 2010 than for AROD/Boras to let them off the hook.
>
>
> >> BTW, the Yanks aren't exactly hurting in the call up department. They
> >> called up Cabrera a couple seasons ago as a fill-in right fielder and
> >> the guy is rapidly developing into an all-star centerfielder.
>
> > Just imagine, Juan Rivera in right field instead of Abreu. Too bad
> > huh? I hope Javier Vasquez was worth the rent money.
>
> Abreu has played mostly great for the Yankees. As for Vaszquez, again,
> payroll has no meaning in baseball.
>
> >> And with
> >> Phillips at first, the Yankees are in the dreadful position of have
> >> too many DH's. You think some team out there that feels the need for
> >> a little veteran pop might want Giambi or Damon? Maybe Seattle?
>
> > Seriously doubt there would be any takers for Giambi, even if the
> > Yanks pick up half his contract. The Mariners already have enough
> > overpaid FAs as well (Beltre, Sexson, Washburn, Weaver). They also
> > have a $100 million extension they just signed Ichiro to, so why would
> > they want Damon? The Dodgers on the otherhand are becoming notorious
> > at adding overpaid veterans in the twilight of their careers.
>
> Giambi has had a solid year. Damon has been good despite stints on the
> DL. This is baseball we're talking about. If the Yankees put either up
> for trade, there will be a line of teams waiting for them.
>
>
Solid year? Giambi doesn't even have 200 ABs yet. He's strictly a DH
anymore so he has no value to a national league team. He's going to be
37 in January. He's had cancer. He's due $21 million next year and $22
million in 2009 with a $5 million buyout. Who's gonna be willing to
touch that? The Yanks are gonna swallow the whole $26 million for
Giambi. There might be a few takers for Damon, but he has a limited no-
trade clause, he's due $13 million in 2008 and 2009 and he's
represented by Boras. Again, the only way the Yanks move him is to eat
his contract.
Steinbrenner isn't getting any younger. The Yanks are moving into a
new stadium which supposedly will generate even more revenue. I don't
think many will tolerate anything less than a contender in the Bronx.
The Yankees need to find replacements for Mussina and Clemens.
Pettitte is 35 years old and only signed through 2008. So those 6
ptiching prospects are definitely going to be put to the test. The
Angels have a couple prospects down in AA that should be ready in 2009
as well. With Lackey, Escobar and Weaveranchoring the starting
rotation, the Angels' future looks brighter to me than the Yankees.
> --
> Crippled but free
> I was blind all the time
> I was learning to see.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
theBZA
news:1188409589.3...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
The same things can be said of the Yankees. They've lost both Giambi and
Damon to injuries. And they have plenty of homegrown talent on the team,
with more coming. YEt their farm is deep enough to maintain talent up
and down. The Angels may right now have a core that "can contend for the
next several seasons" but the Yankees have a farm that will keep them in
contention for another decade. I'm not saying the Angels farm system is
poor - though it is looking depleted - just that Yankees farm system is
deeper.
>>
>> >> Yes indeed. Those stellar callups have contributed to an
>> >> impressive 78- 54 record. All of 5 games better than the utterly
>> >> dreadful Yankees. Perspective sucks, no?
>>
>> > Let's add some perspective shall we? The Angels are at least $100
>> > million lighter in payroll than the Yanks. Boras is going to
>> > present Cashman with an AROD invoice for a minimum of $105 million
>> > for a 3 year extension.
>>
>> Since the Yankees are still the highest profit team in MLB even with
>> a bloated payroll, and since there is no salary cap, this is not
>> "perspective" it is "irrelevant." If the Yankees sign ARod, great.
>> Love to have him. If not, oh well. There are plenty of 3B's in the
>> farm system.
>>
>
> LOL, if they can't afford to lose AROD. Especially when you consider
> that they gave up Soriano to get him. Personally I hope they extend
> AROD. I'd much rather see the Rangers hamstrung by that contract
> through 2010 than for AROD/Boras to let them off the hook.
>
Of course they can afford to lose ARod. The beauty is that they can also
afford to keep him.
Giambi's been on the DL twice this year after being on the DL twice last
year. His OPS+ is still 127. Angels have only two players with higher
OPS+ so if you're telling me he couldn't help the Angels then you know
little or nothing about baseball. As for his contract, again, money is
irrelevant in baseball unless you have a skinflint-cheapskate owner.
Damon was also on the DL and while his OPS+ is down (still above
average) he also has 20 SB in 114 games. And while I think Giambi is
more tradeable regardless of no-trade clauses, only a fool would think
Damon is untradeable. This is baseball afterall. Boston gave JD Drew a
70 million dollar contract despite history of injuries and his age (32).
I don't think fans care how old or infirm Steinbrenner is. Most of us
don't particularly like him. He meddles too much. Why do you think
Guidry is pitching coach despite having no coaching experience?
> The Yankees need to find replacements for Mussina and Clemens.
THey already have them. Chamberlain has been a starter in the minors.
Hughes has shown potential despite being rushed from AA. TJ BEam,
Clippard, JB Cox (future closer), and DeSalvo are all good pitchers.
> Pettitte is 35 years old and only signed through 2008. So those 6
> ptiching prospects are definitely going to be put to the test. The
> Angels have a couple prospects down in AA that should be ready in 2009
> as well. With Lackey, Escobar and Weaveranchoring the starting
> rotation, the Angels' future looks brighter to me than the Yankees.
>
WEll I cannot fault you for your optimism. But with the depth in the
Yankees farm system, their pitching prospects (ranked #1 overall by
Elias) and virtually unlimited cash reserves, I find it a bit misplaced.
Ironside
> Ironside <old_irons...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:1188409589.3...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 29, 8:48 am, theBZA <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The Angels have built a team from their farm system that appears to be
> > in position to contend for the next several seasons. As a fan and as a
> > season ticket holder, that's all I really expect from team management
> > is a commitment to fielding a team that can compete at a high level.
> > The Angels have made that commitment every year. What makes this extra
> > special is that even with all the injuries, and there have been many,
> > the farm system has delivered the depth needed to stay in a pennant
> > race. They Angels have also played this entire season without their
> > second best power bat in Juan Rivera. He is finding his swing in Salt
> > Lake and should be called up this weekend. If he can make a
> > contribution in September, watch out. The Angels will be a team to
> > reckon with. I like the Angels chances of being a thorn in the Yankees
> > sides for years to come.
>
> The same things can be said of the Yankees. They've lost both Giambi and
> Damon to injuries. And they have plenty of homegrown talent on the team,
> with more coming. YEt their farm is deep enough to maintain talent up
> and down. The Angels may right now have a core that "can contend for the
> next several seasons" but the Yankees have a farm that will keep them in
> contention for another decade. I'm not saying the Angels farm system is
> poor - though it is looking depleted - just that Yankees farm system is
> deeper.
>
>
You can only protect 40 men for so long. Eventually Rule V will rob
your farm system of its depth. The Angels will probably lose a couple
of minor league outfielders (Gourneault and Evans) to Rule V this
offseason. The Yankees need the same things everyone else needs:
pitching. The Angels strength is their pitching. They have enough arms
to get them through the next few seasons.They also heavily selected
pitchers in this year draft. They have a proven track record for
developing pitchers as well. Yes the Yanks farm appears to be
brimming, the Angels were at a similar phase 2 to 3 years ago. Most of
their top talent is now at the major league level or in AAA. It's an
ongoing cycle. The difference is that we have more proven prospects at
this time than the Yanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > LOL, if they can't afford to lose AROD. Especially when you consider
> > that they gave up Soriano to get him. Personally I hope they extend
> > AROD. I'd much rather see the Rangers hamstrung by that contract
> > through 2010 than for AROD/Boras to let them off the hook.
>
> Of course they can afford to lose ARod. The beauty is that they can also
> afford to keep him.
>
The Angels signed a $500 million TV contract with FOX sports last
season. They were outbid for Soriano, but offered $116 million. They
will continue to bid on top FAs. They are also named as a one of the
favorites to land AROD if he opts out. The Angels can't afford to sign
players to some of the ludicrous contracts that the Yankees can.
>
> > Solid year? Giambi doesn't even have 200 ABs yet. He's strictly a DH
> > anymore so he has no value to a national league team. He's going to be
> > 37 in January. He's had cancer. He's due $21 million next year and $22
> > million in 2009 with a $5 million buyout. Who's gonna be willing to
> > touch that? The Yanks are gonna swallow the whole $26 million for
> > Giambi. There might be a few takers for Damon, but he has a limited
> > no- trade clause, he's due $13 million in 2008 and 2009 and he's
> > represented by Boras. Again, the only way the Yanks move him is to eat
> > his contract.
>
> Giambi's been on the DL twice this year after being on the DL twice last
> year. His OPS+ is still 127. Angels have only two players with higher
> OPS+ so if you're telling me he couldn't help the Angels then you know
> little or nothing about baseball. As for his contract, again, money is
> irrelevant in baseball unless you have a skinflint-cheapskate owner.
Being unwilling to pay $43 million for 2 seasons for a DH who hasn't
exactly been a model of good health does not make one a skinflint-
cheapskate IMO. But if the Angels were willing to take a risk on an
aging left-handed hitting DH, I'd rather take a chance on Jim Thome
than the Human-Giambi-Hormone. Thome's due $27 million over the next 2
seasons with a $3 million buyout.
>
> Damon was also on the DL and while his OPS+ is down (still above
> average) he also has 20 SB in 114 games. And while I think Giambi is
> more tradeable regardless of no-trade clauses, only a fool would think
> Damon is untradeable. This is baseball afterall. Boston gave JD Drew a
> 70 million dollar contract despite history of injuries and his age (32).
>
Boston overpaid for Drew just as badly as the Yanks overpaid for
Damon. You make it sound like teams are knocking down office doors to
line up for a Damon trade. That did not appear to be the case in July.
There's a rumor that the Braves were interested but only if the Yanks
paid most of his contract.
>
>
>
> > Steinbrenner isn't getting any younger. The Yanks are moving into a
> > new stadium which supposedly will generate even more revenue. I don't
> > think many will tolerate anything less than a contender in the Bronx.
>
> I don't think fans care how old or infirm Steinbrenner is. Most of us
> don't particularly like him. He meddles too much. Why do you think
> Guidry is pitching coach despite having no coaching experience?
>
> > The Yankees need to find replacements for Mussina and Clemens.
>
> THey already have them. Chamberlain has been a starter in the minors.
> Hughes has shown potential despite being rushed from AA. TJ BEam,
> Clippard, JB Cox (future closer), and DeSalvo are all good pitchers.
These guys have a hell of a lot more to prove before they can be
called replacements.
>
> > Pettitte is 35 years old and only signed through 2008. So those 6
> > ptiching prospects are definitely going to be put to the test. The
> > Angels have a couple prospects down in AA that should be ready in 2009
> > as well. With Lackey, Escobar and Weaveranchoring the starting
> > rotation, the Angels' future looks brighter to me than the Yankees.
>
> WEll I cannot fault you for your optimism. But with the depth in the
> Yankees farm system, their pitching prospects (ranked #1 overall by
> Elias) and virtually unlimited cash reserves, I find it a bit misplaced.
>
Like I said, our guys have proven that they can perform at the MLB
level while your guys are still just rated prospects by Elias and
Baseball America. It's one thing for a 23 or 24 year old kid to
perform in front fans in Scranton or Trenton. It's a completely
different story to play in the pressure cooker called Yankee stadium
not to mention the meat grinder that the NY press puts players through.
theBZA
news:1188415588....@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
I don't know what you mean by "proven prospects." If they are proven
because they are on the ML roster, then they aren't prospects anymore. I
would say that the success the Yankees prospects have had in AA and AAA
and in short ML stints make them "proven prospects". The Yankee farm
system is chock full of highly regarded pitching prospects. And they
have veteran depth on the ML roster. They are in a very good bargaining
position wrt re-signing players or trading players.
>>
>> > LOL, if they can't afford to lose AROD. Especially when you
>> > consider that they gave up Soriano to get him. Personally I hope
>> > they extend AROD. I'd much rather see the Rangers hamstrung by that
>> > contract through 2010 than for AROD/Boras to let them off the hook.
>>
>> Of course they can afford to lose ARod. The beauty is that they can
>> also afford to keep him.
>>
>
> The Angels signed a $500 million TV contract with FOX sports last
> season. They were outbid for Soriano, but offered $116 million. They
> will continue to bid on top FAs. They are also named as a one of the
> favorites to land AROD if he opts out. The Angels can't afford to sign
> players to some of the ludicrous contracts that the Yankees can.
>
Which is why talk of contracts and payrolls is irrelevant wrt the
Yankees. Until there is a salary cap (and I hope they do get one
although I doubt they will) George can keep on spending as much as he
wants because the more he spends, the more he makes. It's capitalism at
its best.
>
>
>>
>> > Solid year? Giambi doesn't even have 200 ABs yet. He's strictly a
>> > DH anymore so he has no value to a national league team. He's going
>> > to be 37 in January. He's had cancer. He's due $21 million next
>> > year and $22 million in 2009 with a $5 million buyout. Who's gonna
>> > be willing to touch that? The Yanks are gonna swallow the whole $26
>> > million for Giambi. There might be a few takers for Damon, but he
>> > has a limited no- trade clause, he's due $13 million in 2008 and
>> > 2009 and he's represented by Boras. Again, the only way the Yanks
>> > move him is to eat his contract.
>>
>> Giambi's been on the DL twice this year after being on the DL twice
>> last year. His OPS+ is still 127. Angels have only two players with
>> higher OPS+ so if you're telling me he couldn't help the Angels then
>> you know little or nothing about baseball. As for his contract,
>> again, money is irrelevant in baseball unless you have a
>> skinflint-cheapskate owner.
>
> Being unwilling to pay $43 million for 2 seasons for a DH who hasn't
> exactly been a model of good health does not make one a skinflint-
> cheapskate IMO. But if the Angels were willing to take a risk on an
> aging left-handed hitting DH, I'd rather take a chance on Jim Thome
> than the Human-Giambi-Hormone. Thome's due $27 million over the next 2
> seasons with a $3 million buyout.
>
I'd rather the Yankees trade Damon and keep Giambi as DH.
>>
>> Damon was also on the DL and while his OPS+ is down (still above
>> average) he also has 20 SB in 114 games. And while I think Giambi is
>> more tradeable regardless of no-trade clauses, only a fool would
>> think Damon is untradeable. This is baseball afterall. Boston gave JD
>> Drew a 70 million dollar contract despite history of injuries and his
>> age (32).
>>
>
> Boston overpaid for Drew just as badly as the Yanks overpaid for
> Damon. You make it sound like teams are knocking down office doors to
> line up for a Damon trade. That did not appear to be the case in July.
> There's a rumor that the Braves were interested but only if the Yanks
> paid most of his contract.
>
Again, such a contingency is irrelevant to the Yankees. If the Braves
will pony up decent players, the Yankees will eat most if not all of
Damon's contract.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Steinbrenner isn't getting any younger. The Yanks are moving into a
>> > new stadium which supposedly will generate even more revenue. I
>> > don't think many will tolerate anything less than a contender in
>> > the Bronx.
>>
>> I don't think fans care how old or infirm Steinbrenner is. Most of us
>> don't particularly like him. He meddles too much. Why do you think
>> Guidry is pitching coach despite having no coaching experience?
>>
>> > The Yankees need to find replacements for Mussina and Clemens.
>>
>> THey already have them. Chamberlain has been a starter in the minors.
>> Hughes has shown potential despite being rushed from AA. TJ BEam,
>> Clippard, JB Cox (future closer), and DeSalvo are all good pitchers.
>
> These guys have a hell of a lot more to prove before they can be
> called replacements.
>
Chamberlain has little left to prove except that he can start instead of
relieve. Philips has proven he can play. The rest are still *prospects*
so they have everything to prove. The nice part is that the Yankees have
so many of them that its unlikely none of them will pan out.
>>
>> > Pettitte is 35 years old and only signed through 2008. So those 6
>> > ptiching prospects are definitely going to be put to the test. The
>> > Angels have a couple prospects down in AA that should be ready in
>> > 2009 as well. With Lackey, Escobar and Weaveranchoring the starting
>> > rotation, the Angels' future looks brighter to me than the Yankees.
>>
>> WEll I cannot fault you for your optimism. But with the depth in the
>> Yankees farm system, their pitching prospects (ranked #1 overall by
>> Elias) and virtually unlimited cash reserves, I find it a bit
>> misplaced.
>>
>
> Like I said, our guys have proven that they can perform at the MLB
> level while your guys are still just rated prospects by Elias and
> Baseball America. It's one thing for a 23 or 24 year old kid to
> perform in front fans in Scranton or Trenton. It's a completely
> different story to play in the pressure cooker called Yankee stadium
> not to mention the meat grinder that the NY press puts players
> through.
>
I don't see where you get this. The Yankees have had a ton of injuries
this season, and they've traded Proctor, sent Igawa down at least twice,
and moved several other pitchers up and down all season. Yet the Yankees
are only 5 games behind the Angels. I don't understand what you think
the Yankee callups have to prove that Angel callups don't.
Ironside
> I don't see where you get this. The Yankees have had a ton of injuries
> this season, and they've traded Proctor, sent Igawa down at least twice,
> and moved several other pitchers up and down all season. Yet the Yankees
> are only 5 games behind the Angels. I don't understand what you think
> the Yankee callups have to prove that Angel callups don't.
>
For chrissakes Brando... you still argue like a woman. If I want a circular
argument I'll go downstairs and argue with my wife. The stats are available
for you to analyze. The Yankees pitchers avg age is like 55 years old while
the Angels are like 27. They've had 3 healthy regulars all season long.
Rivera has missed the entire season. Our two current catchers both started
the season in AAA, our Cy Young pitcher of 2005 has not contributed in 2
years, and we still lead our division by 5 games.
theBZA
wrote in news:UWqBi.1528$z_5....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:
Perhaps you can point out the circular reasoning? My argument is, in
fact, structured exactly like yours. I did that to highlight the fact
that your own argument applies directly to the Yankee callups as well.
I'm thrilled that your catchers both started the season in AAA. Joba
Chamberlain started the season in AA and he's pitching like a young Mike
Mussina. Our Cy Young pitcher of 2001 hasn't contributed in 5 years
(wasn't even on the team for 4) and is only now looking like he's not
still in spring training - he had a great start last night despite
walking a bunch of Redsox. Meanwhile, the Yankees have taken a dump on
the RedSox 2 best pitchers in a row, are tied with the Mariners for the
WC and with a win tonight will be only 5 games behind the Sox. Moreover,
Pettitte has been nothing short of brilliant since the AS break (6th
best ERA among starters since AS break, 8-1 record in that time). If
Kennedy pitches well this weekend, after starting the season in AA (not
AAA) then the Yankees look like they might be set to storm through the
playoffs despite being 14.5 games back in April. That's pretty amazing
and it wouldn't have happened without the contributions of minor league
callups like Clippard, Chamberlain, Hughes, Rasner, DeSalvo and players
promoted in the last 2-3 seasons like Cabrera, Philips and Cano.
Ironside
> "Ironside" <old_irons...@SPAMREALLYSUXhotmail.com.REMOVECAPSTOREPLY>
> wrote innews:UWqBi.1528$z_5....@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "theBZA" <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote in message
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!
Clippard? 6.33 ERA and hasn't pitched since June 16th. Chamberlain has
done well, but he's only pitched all of 10 innings in his MLB career.
Hughes 5.35 ERA, was shelled his last two outings. Rasner hasn't
pitched in 3 months and he wasn't actually drafted by the Yanks. He
came up through the Expos/nationals farm system. DeSalvo? 6.18 ERA.
Hasn't pitched in over a month. 18 walks in 27 innings. That's rich.
Cano is in his 3rd full season, but that's cool, he has nicely
replaced Soriano. Cabrera has also made significant contributions.
Phillips also appears to be on the precipice of making regular
contributions.
But I still don't think you can even come close to comparing what the
Angels have gotten out of their farm system over the past 2 seasons.
Jered Weaver and Joe Saunders have been saviors in the starting
rotation. No Yankee prospect can compare to the contributions these 2
guys have made. Chris Bootcheck has chipped in with 61 IP this season.
Dustin Mosely has had to fill in for Colon and Santana. Ervin Santana
prior to this season won 28 games his first 2 seasons. He has pitched
terribly on the road this year. Contributions from position players
are far too many to list but Howie Kendrick, Casey Kotchman, Reggie
Willits, Mike Napoli and most recently Jeff Mathis have all been
called within the past 2 seasons and are all regular contributors. We
still have Brandon Wood, nick Adenhart and Jose Arredondo as top rated
prospects looking to latch on in the next year or two as well.
Perhaps the Yanks have a bright future to look forward to with their
farm system, but the Angels farm has certainly delivered in a big way.
theBZA
news:1188518554....@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> Perhaps the Yanks have a bright future to look forward to with their
> farm system, but the Angels farm has certainly delivered in a big way.
You've finally gotten the point. The Angels have virtually depleted
their farm system, only their AAA club has a winning record and their
lower teams are dreadful. Has it paid off? Sure. They won the WS 5 years
ago and they've been in the playoffs twice more since then. And they are
currenly 4.5 games ahead of a Yankee team that was once 10 games behind
them and has struggled all year. You yourself have pointed out that
Giambi has had a bad year, and Damon, and Mussina, and many of their
pitching callups have been spotty at best. So what gives with dropping
5.5 games in the standings with all these farmhands who "delivered in a
big way"?
Meanwhile, the Yankees have 8 minor league teams that are either in
first place, second place overall in their league, or won a half-season
division title. IOW, ever single farm club is in their leagues playoffs.
That is despite players going up and down the ladder all season. And
guys like Cano, Cabrera and Soriano (since traded for ARod) have all
made major contributions. Now we have Chamberlain looking like a future
Ace of the staff, Cox is in the minors and throwing like a young Mariano
Rivera, Philips is, as you said, on the precipice. And with 8
champioship caliber minor league teams, there is really no end in sight
to the prospects.
So yeah, the Angels have a good core that was developed in their minors.
But there is nothing left in those minors so you need to hope this core
holds together and keeps producing.
--
If I were a cactus, I wouldn't need so much water
Ironside
I didn't even mention Kendry Morales and Erick Aybar. The Angels have a
solid core of young players that will hopefully continue to own the Yankees
for many years to come.