the owner of the barber shop i go to in florida, is a big time giants fan.

[ari...@bellsouth.net]

he says the team started to fall apart after the duffy trade. I do have to question his insight though, as he is a Trump supporter.

[benf8...@aol.com]

On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 8:50:59 PM UTC-7, ari...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> he says the team started to fall apart after the duffy trade. I do have to question his insight though, as he is a Trump supporter.

What good is a Duffy that can't play due to injury?

[Jon Rossen]

The barber would say that you are spreading fake news.

But both points of view could be right: The Giants *did* fall apart
after the Duffy trade. And, YES, Duffy has health problems and can't
play. So they maybe would have fallen apart because of that as well.
So it boils down to this: Not having Matt Duffy playing (whether it's
because of a trade or due to injury) has negatively affected the Giants.
See, it's a lose / lose situation.


-jon rossen

[Roberto Ricca]

<ari...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:927d1485-55ed-4fe6...@googlegroups.com...

> he says the team started to fall apart after the duffy trade. I do
> have to question his insight though, as he is a Trump supporter.

The Duffy trade was bad (not for the trade in itself, more for nicking
or even destroying team's chemistry, whatever the value of it), but
there is something that I wonder and never comes up in the papers I
read.

There are prestigious positions which don't count too much and then
actually leading roles. In my country, for instance, the Prime Minister
is much more powerful than the President, even though it is the latter
who formally chooses the former.

I've often read that a nice way to practically get rid of somebody is to
"promote" him from a leading role to a prestigious position.

Did the Giants get rid of Sabean last year? I always had that
impression, but nobody speaks of it hence I keep wondering. Maybe I am
badly wrong (which is excusable as I am ten thousands miles away:-), but
has Sabean stilll a meaningful active role in the Giants brass?

I don't know whether Sabean would have traded Duffy or made a stronger
push to get Melancon last year. Sure, Melancon is badly failing this
year, but I'm talking of last year, when he was excellent, and could
have been the missing link for another even-year triumph.

I guess that, like the barber shop owner mentioned in the subject, all
of us are allowed to speculate when things go awry, and if I had just a
vote for "the reason why", I'd get it to Sabean's "dismissal".

--

Roberto Ricca
2010: 1st time WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS
2012: 2nd time WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS
2014: 3rd time WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS
2017: GO GIANTS (Anybody but the Dodgers) [Magic Number: 111]

[Awesome Giants]

Jon Rossen <jon...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 6/18/2017 9:36 PM, benf8...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 8:50:59 PM UTC-7,
>> ari...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>>> he says the team started to fall apart after the duffy trade.

Wrong. See below.

>>> I
>>> do have to question his insight though, as he is a Trump
>>> supporter.

Well, Florida in general have dumb people. They put George W into
office, and they voted for Trump. They couldn't even figure out
which box to check in the ballot in 2000.

Come to think of it, all the republican presidents in this century
have been put in office due to controversies - hanging chads and
Russian hack. Coincidence, or did they cheated successfully twice?

>> What good is a Duffy that can't play due to injury?

Exactly. And remember, he was absolutely the worst hitter last year
in the lineup. Also, Duffy was traded on Aug 1st, and the Giants
started losing horribly right after the all-star game. Had the
Giants continued to win in those last 2 weeks of July, the Giants
probably would not have traded him.

And the DRays went way downhill after getting Duffy, so he's
certainly no help or luck. At the time the Rays got Duffy, they
were 17 games behind 1st place. By the end of the season they were
25 games behind 1st place.

And as it turned out, Duffy's a defective product.

Also, had they not traded Duffy for Moore, the Giants most likely
would not have even made the playoff, as Moore replaced Peavy/Cain,
who were garbage at that point. And Moore dominated the Cubs in
Game 4. The Giants might have knocked out the Cubs had the bullpen
not achieved the greatest 9th inning collapse in playoff history.

Gillaspie also hit the lights out in the playoff.

> The barber would say that you are spreading fake news.

LOLOL. Good one!

[Awesome Giants]

I don't agree. I believe by winning 3 WS in 5 years, Sabean has
achieved royal status in the organization. He's become unfireable. It
was a real promotion. The A's sort of did the same with Billy Beane,
despite the A's not doing much in recent years, and moved him up to
EVP. He's also achieved royal status, and unfireable.

BTW, what did you think Sabean did that would let the Giants to "get
rid of him" anyway?

And obviously, I also disagree about Duffy (see my other post). By
your logic, one can argue that replacing Sabean as GM is a better
explanation for the Giants' downfall than Duffy's trade. With Sabes as
GM, we've been winning every 2 years this decade. With someone else as
GM, the streak has broken. :-) With Duffy, the timeline didn't fit.

[benf8...@aol.com]

They didn't get rid of Sabean, they promoted him to vice president of baseball operations in 2015. Bobby Evans seems to be a lousy day to day talent evaluator.

[John Walsh]

On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 20:50:58 -0700 (PDT), ari...@bellsouth.net wrote:

>he says the team started to fall apart after the duffy trade.
> I do have to question his insight though, as he is a Trump supporter.

That's just bum luck, Wayne. Duffy couldn't stay healthy and he's
still living on the DL with his new team. The Giants set themselves
for this disaster after Duffman left.

Look at the signings? Everyone of them a lousy deal. Even renewing
clowns like Pence backfired.

[John Walsh]

On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 00:44:19 -0700, Jon Rossen <jon...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Agreed.

[ari...@bellsouth.net]

On Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 11:50:59 PM UTC-4, ari...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> he says the team started to fall apart after the duffy trade. I do have to question his insight though, as he is a Trump supporter.

florida did not put W into office. The supreme court did. When the actual recount was made and published by the consortium of newspapers and news organizations. Gore had 22,000 more votes. Of course the Bush brothers and father ran an almost perfect CIA type election to steal it, and they were the ones who went to the federal government and use the courts. They also removed over 75 thousand eligible voters from the roles, the majority of whom were democrats. My politically nutty barber, is from the Northeast originally. His thesis is that the team chemistry just was broken during the Duffy trade. It is not as if they were terrible before they got Duffy. He has been hurt anyway, but who knows if there is any merit to his position. If he can believe what Trump says he does lose a ton of credibility.

[John Walsh]

What about Bumgarner? He wasn't peforming up to snuff and after his
injury, the team went into a steep nosedive. If they had any ideas
about recovering and making a run at 1st place, it went out the door
with Bumgarner when he went on the DL.