Strange...

[Bill McGarrity]

For some reason I find it strage why some in this NG always seem to find the
bad in a player and constantly pound them over and over yet when these very
same players outperform themselves, not a peep. Yes, everyone has the right to
bitch and moan over the way the team started but dear God, they're 7-1 in their
last eight, they've shown resilence where rolling over and playing dead when
down by a few in the 8th was the norm. It's mid-May and there's enough time to
get things worked out.

BTW.. kudos to Smargeja for last night's performance and to Arroyo. He could
hit .220 for all I care as long as he's coming up big in the clutch.

Just a little comparison..

Willie Mays 1952 stats before he left for the Service...

G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

34 127 17 30 52 2 4 4 23 16 - 17 4 1 .236 .326 .409 .736

Arroyo's Stats

25 95 9 21 33 3 0 3 12 8 1 23 1 2 .221 .279 .347 .626


Let's give this kid a chance at the plate. He certainly knows what he's doing
in the field.





--

Bill

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[John Walsh]

On Sun, 21 May 2017 11:16:00 -0400, "Bill McGarrity"
<bill.mc...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net.remove-qxc-this> wrote:

>For some reason I find it strage why some in this NG always seem to find the
>bad in a player and constantly pound them over and over yet when these very
>same players outperform themselves, not a peep. Yes, everyone has the right to
>bitch and moan over the way the team started but dear God, they're 7-1 in their
>last eight, they've shown resilence where rolling over and playing dead when
>down by a few in the 8th was the norm. It's mid-May and there's enough time to
>get things worked out.
>
>BTW.. kudos to Smargeja for last night's performance and to Arroyo. He could
>hit .220 for all I care as long as he's coming up big in the clutch.
>
>Just a little comparison..
>
>Willie Mays 1952 stats before he left for the Service...
>
> G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
>
>34 127 17 30 52 2 4 4 23 16 - 17 4 1 .236 .326 .409 .736
>
>Arroyo's Stats
>
>25 95 9 21 33 3 0 3 12 8 1 23 1 2 .221 .279 .347 .626
>
>
>Let's give this kid a chance at the plate. He certainly knows what he's doing
>in the field.
>
>
>

I think a long losing streak and landing in the bottom of the West
brings that out, with hardly anyone being left out for criticism. As
they started shaking off the slump, the outlook changes and so did the
criticism.

Arroyo has his moments and he's having to learn all about big league
pitching, but he still comes thru with some amazing hits and shows
tenacity with the way he handles pitches. He makes the pitcher work
hard and nothing showed that like his last double to win the game for
the Giants. That's the trait of an excellent hitter. He'll just have
to learn and once he gains the experience, he's going to be a
dangerous hitter to face.

If you read Grant's articles McCovey Cove, there's a great pitch
location charge on the last at bat for Arroyo. Amazing.
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2017/5/20/15670924/sf-giants-recap-cardinals-extra-innings

[ari...@bellsouth.net]

EVER heard of earnest ragging, among true fans? We rag on our favorite players in the hope that they will do even better.

[benf8...@aol.com]

Arroyo will be ok...maybe a year too soon but he is no Mays.

[Bill McGarrity]

To: ariess
-=> ariess wrote to alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants on 05-21-17 11:34 <=-


ar> EVER heard of earnest ragging, among true fans? We rag on our favorite
ar> players in the hope that they will do even better.

No, but then again, I'm old school. Ragging on players who are at that level
certainly is not within my paygrade. If you feel you can do a better job then
by all means, as they say, step up to the plate.

[ari...@bellsouth.net]

On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 11:21:20 AM UTC-4, Bill McGarrity wrote:

earnest ragging is old school.

[ari...@bellsouth.net]

On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 11:21:20 AM UTC-4, Bill McGarrity wrote:

I would let one know that the young Mays when he came up went 0-11, and did not get off to a good start. Its easy to say Arroyo is no Mays, because it is most likely a fairly safe bet. But there are similarities. I expect Arroyo to be a stud. He came up hot, he is cooled down, hopefully he will be hot again. For some reason whatever Meulens have been teaching it is not working very well this year. Seems as if there has been adjustments to the giant's approach, and they need to adjust back. Let us see if the giants will ever hit a home run with a man on base.

[John Walsh]

On Sun, 21 May 2017 15:13:18 -0700 (PDT), "benf8...@aol.com"
<benf8...@aol.com> wrote:

>Arroyo will be ok...maybe a year too soon but he is no Mays.

He shows a good eye for the strike zone, ben. I think he'll hit for a
good average once he digests all the new pitching he's facing. Nobody
is Mays, but I thinkn Arroyo is better than the .250 he's toting right
now.

[Awesome Giants]

"Bill McGarrity"

<bill.mc...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net.remove-qxc-this> wrote:

> For some reason I find it strage why some in this NG always seem
> to find the bad in a player and constantly pound them over and
> over yet when these very same players outperform themselves, not a
> peep. Yes, everyone has the right to bitch and moan over the way
> the team started but dear God, they're 7-1 in their last eight,
> they've shown resilence where rolling over and playing dead when
> down by a few in the 8th was the norm. It's mid-May and there's
> enough time to get things worked out.

Well, I agree with some of what you said, but not every point. :-)

First of all, I was away for 5 days, or else I definitely would've
posted about his big hit, as I did with his previous big hits. I even
started a thread named "Awesome Arroyo" after one of his big hits, and
replied to the same thread after another one of his clutch hit. I did
see one thread named "Arroyo powers the Giants to a win!" from Saturday
though, so someone did give him a shout out. No need to rely on me.
:-)

I didn't see any mention of Nunez's clutch game-winning hit though, so
clearly Arroyo is more popular than Nunez in here. :-)

Well, of course I'd agree with the Mays example, since I was the one
who originally brought his name up (and Panik's) at least twice this
season, saying that you can't judge a rookie by just one or two weeks
of ABs. Mays was 1 for 26 (could even be 27 or 28) when he started
out, and I've mentioned Panik numerous times that he sucked for months
before he started hitting in the 2nd half of his rookie season.

And it's not like we have better options. Gillaspie's been
disappointing so far, and Nunez, although probably slightly better than
Arroyo at this point, is needed at LF now, so it might as well be
Arroyo at 3B. :-)

What I have a problem with, though, as I've mentioned repeatedly, is
that Boch is batting him so high up in the lineup, when he's batting
around .210-.220. I'm one who believes in rookies starting out near
the bottom and earn their way up (unless you're a franchise type
player). Panik started out batting 8th or 7th for months before Boch
moved him up. Even Mays played 76 games (out of 121) batting 6th, 7th,
and 8th in his rookie season. Posey started out batting 6th in 2010,
but proved himself immediately, batting 3 for 4 and 3 for 5 in his 1st
2 games, and the rest was history. :-)

Note: Mays batted 3rd in his 1st week, went 1 for 26, was demoted to
bat 8th in his 8th game, and immediately went 2 for 4. :-) Then he
stayed at #6 for a while. On July 1st he batted 3rd. On August 1st he
batted 5th. On Sep 1st he was back down to 7th. So he was moved
around quite a bit based on performance.

In the "Shot Heard Round the World" playoff game against the dodgers,
Mays batted 7th, and was on deck when Thomson hit the famous shot.

> BTW.. kudos to Smargeja for last night's performance

Yeah that was amazing and totally unexpected. Too bad he didn't even
get a win. He only needed 1 run!

> and to
> Arroyo. He could hit .220 for all I care as long as he's coming up
> big in the clutch.

I don't agree with this. I'd say over the long haul being a good
hitter helps the team a lot more than a few clutch hits. Over the long
haul, innings 1-8 will out-weigh innings #9 by a mile. And I'd prefer
leading the game in the 9th than coming from behind, even though coming
from behind is always much more exciting. :-)

Before his 13th inning clutch hit, he was 0 for 4. Perhaps if he came
through sooner, extra innings wouldn't be needed. We could've saved
some pitchers. And maybe Posey would've been available in Sunday's
game.

> Just a little comparison..
>
> Willie Mays 1952 stats before he left for the Service...
>
> G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS AVG OBP
> SLG OPS
>
> 34 127 17 30 52 2 4 4 23 16 - 17 4 1
> .236 .326 .409 .736
>
> Arroyo's Stats
>
> 25 95 9 21 33 3 0 3 12 8 1 23 1 2
> .221 .279 .347 .626

Well, this comparison is not very meaningful. First of all, even
though their BA were close, their OPS were a mile apart. A .736 OPS
usually means a starting player, while a .626 OPS usually means you're
either a catcher or a bench player. :-)

And 34 bad games in 1952 wouldn't be enough to bench him since he's
proven himself in 1951, being Rookie of the Year. :-)

> Let's give this kid a chance at the plate.

Definitely. And the Giants seem to be very high on him, so he's not
going anywhere.

> He certainly knows
> what he's doing in the field.

Well... at 3B he seems to be ok. His fielding percentage is just a
bit under league average, and his range is a little above league
average.

But at SS, his range is *way* below league average, so he probably
shouldn't play SS that much.

He only played 1 game at 2B, so not enough sample size.

When I first saw him, I had a sense that he wasn't very agile, but he's
proven to be decent. And I guess if the big fat Pablo could handle 3B,
then Arroyo should too. :-)

[Awesome Giants]

ari...@bellsouth.net wrote:


> I would let one know that the young Mays when he came up went
> 0-11,

You're wrong. Mays was 0 for 12.

Game 1: 0 for 5
Game 2: 0 for 3
Game 3: 0 for 4

And 0 for 12 doesn't really sound that bad. You're talking about 3
games. :-) Probably a ton of good/great players have done that. 1 for
26, that's a little more unusual.

> I expect Arroyo to be a stud. He came up
> hot, he is cooled down, hopefully he will be hot again.

He was never hot. 1st 3 games:

Game 1: 0 for 4
Game 2: 1 for 4
Game 3: 1 for 4
End of week 1: .207 BA

Trivia: Who did Mays hit his 1st HR off of?

[Bill McGarrity]

To: Awesome Giants
-=> Awesome Giants wrote to alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants on 05-22-17 15:06 <=-


AG> Trivia: Who did Mays hit his 1st HR off of?

Don Gullett of the Reds at Shea...

[Bill McGarrity]

To: benf8...@aol.com
-=> benf8...@aol.com wrote to alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants on 05-21-17 15:13
<=-

be> From Newsgroup: alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants

be> Arroyo will be ok...maybe a year too soon but he is no Mays.


No one said he was. I was just making a comparision dealing with games played
between the both. I couldn't find stats for Mays' 1951 season that showed his
first 25 games so I used '52 being he went into the service that year. IMO, by
August, the Giants will have the best infield in the entire league with him at
3rd. I feel he'll be a .275BA minimum hitter with at least 15 dingers. More to
come next year.

[benf8...@aol.com]

Posey started his career 2 for 17 at age 22. He turned out ok.

[Awesome Giants]

"Bill McGarrity"

<bill.mc...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net.remove-dn7-this> wrote:

> To: benf8...@aol.com
> -=> benf8...@aol.com wrote to alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants on
> 05-21-17 15:13 <=-
>
> be> From Newsgroup: alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants
>
> be> Arroyo will be ok...maybe a year too soon but he is no Mays.
>
>
> No one said he was. I was just making a comparision dealing with
> games played between the both. I couldn't find stats for Mays'
> 1951 season that showed his first 25 games so I used '52 being he
> went into the service that year. IMO, by August, the Giants will
> have the best infield in the entire league with him at 3rd. I feel
> he'll be a .275BA minimum hitter with at least 15 dingers. More to
> come next year.

Wow that's very optimistic. For that to happen, he better hit .375
instead of .275, 'cause that's what Turner is hitting for LA. LA got
Turner, Seager, Taylor (.333), and Gonzalez. Gonzalez is actually the
weak link in that group right now.

[Awesome Giants]

"benf8...@aol.com" <benf8...@aol.com> wrote:

> Posey started his career 2 for 17 at age 22. He turned out ok.
>

Well, 4 games tell you nothing. He was a September callup in 2009 and
only started 4 games (not 4 consecutive games), only got some playing
time here and there. I'd consider 2010 his real true beginning.

And as Panik's shown, even 2 months doesn't tell you much.

On the flip side, Parker hit 3 HR in 1 game as a September callup in
2015, hit 6 HR with great stats: .347/.407/.755/1.163 in 21 September
games. Yet he didn't pan out.

Duffy had a great rookie season, yet he was a total flop in his 2nd
season.

So as I've said, they need at least a couple of months to prove
themselves.

But Arroyo went 0 for 5 today batting 2nd. At least 2 of the ABs he
had runner(s) in scoring position. He left 4 men on base. His BA is
down to .212. I think he should be batting 7th until he improves.
That's what Mays did.

[Awesome Giants]

"Bill McGarrity"

<bill.mc...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net.remove-dn7-this> wrote:

> To: Awesome Giants
> -=> Awesome Giants wrote to alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants on
> 05-22-17 15:06 <=-
>
>
> AG> Trivia: Who did Mays hit his 1st HR off of?
>
> Don Gullett of the Reds at Shea...

Where did you find that? I have Warren Spahn. Spahn even joked about
it:

Mays began his major league career with no hits in his first 12 at
bats. On his 13th at-bat, he hit a home run over the left field roof of
the Polo Grounds off future Hall of Famer Warren Spahn. Spahn later
joked, "I'll never forgive myself. We might have gotten rid of Willie
forever if I'd only struck him out."

LOL.

[ari...@bellsouth.net]

On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 11:21:20 AM UTC-4, Bill McGarrity wrote:

I like Arroyo in the field, he seems to have quick hands, and his range seems to be better than what is reported. Essentially the giants have 3 drafted shortstops playing in the infield, with Crawford being the fielding stud, Panik and Arroyo were also shortstops. Even Morse was a shortstop in high school.

[Bill McGarrity]

To: Awesome Giants
-=> Awesome Giants wrote to alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants on 05-23-17 09:37 <=-

AG> From Newsgroup: alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants

AG> "Bill McGarrity"

AG> <bill.mc...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net.remove-dn7-this> wrote:

> To: benf8...@aol.com
> -=> benf8...@aol.com wrote to alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants on
> 05-21-17 15:13 <=-
>
> be> From Newsgroup: alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants
>
> be> Arroyo will be ok...maybe a year too soon but he is no Mays.
>
>
> No one said he was. I was just making a comparision dealing with
> games played between the both. I couldn't find stats for Mays'
> 1951 season that showed his first 25 games so I used '52 being he
> went into the service that year. IMO, by August, the Giants will
> have the best infield in the entire league with him at 3rd. I feel
> he'll be a .275BA minimum hitter with at least 15 dingers. More to
> come next year.

AG> Wow that's very optimistic. For that to happen, he better hit .375
AG> instead of .275, 'cause that's what Turner is hitting for LA. LA got
AG> Turner, Seager, Taylor (.333), and Gonzalez. Gonzalez is actually the
AG> weak link in that group right now.

I think it's being more realistic. No one is doubting Turner is having a good
year but we're only 40 games into the season. He's a lifetime .288 hitter with
59 HR's in 7 seasons. I wouldn't consider him superstar material. Seager will
be great for LA for many years to come. Taylor is another having an out of body
experience statistically. Gonzalez, I feel, has seen his best days. My
statement also includes fielding. The Giants are rated 3rd in the League in
FPCT, the Dodgers 20th. yet the Giants are well below LA in defense efficiency
rating and because of the piss poor start to the season, far behind in total
runs scored.

it's still early and the signs that Belt, Panik, Nunez are coming out of the
dark ages. SP is starting to act like SP and although the pen has been "shaky",
it has had signs of brilliance lately. It's for these reasons I'm being
realistically optimistic... :)

[Bill McGarrity]

To: Awesome Giants
-=> Awesome Giants wrote to alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants on 05-23-17 09:43 <=-


AG> "Bill McGarrity"

AG> <bill.mc...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net.remove-dn7-this> wrote:

> To: Awesome Giants
> -=> Awesome Giants wrote to alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants on
> 05-22-17 15:06 <=-
>
>
> AG> Trivia: Who did Mays hit his 1st HR off of?
>
> Don Gullett of the Reds at Shea...

AG> Where did you find that? I have Warren Spahn. Spahn even joked about
AG> it:

AG> Mays began his major league career with no hits in his first 12 at
AG> bats. On his 13th at-bat, he hit a home run over the left field roof of
AG> the Polo Grounds off future Hall of Famer Warren Spahn. Spahn later
AG> joked, "I'll never forgive myself. We might have gotten rid of Willie
AG> forever if I'd only struck him out."

AG> LOL.


LOL... I read it wrong... thought it said last... my apologies... :)

[Awesome Giants]

"Bill McGarrity"
<bill.mc...@tequilamockingbirdonline.net.remove-121c-this>
wrote:

Turner's lifetime stats wouldn't tell the whole story because for
half of his career he was a nobody, but ever since joining the bums
he's been a different hitter. In fact, last year he was 9th in MVP
voting. His 1st year in LA he batted .340. So I doubt this year is
a fluke. 27 of his 59 HR came last year, and 51 of his 59 HR came
as a dodger (in 3 years and 2 months), although this year he only
has 1 so far. I really hate him so I hope he sucks, but I really
don't see that happening.

> Seager will be great for LA for
> many years to come. Taylor is another having an out of body
> experience statistically.

Taylor is only 26, and looks like this is the first time he gets to
play regularly so it's hard to say. Could be a fluke, or he could
be coming into his own. I hope it's a fluke.

> Gonzalez, I feel, has seen his best days.

He's definitely near his end. 2 months in and he has 0 HR, slugging
.330. Even though Belt is not hitting well either, Belt should win
this one.

> My statement also includes fielding. The Giants are rated
> 3rd in the League in FPCT, the Dodgers 20th.

It's weird. Both teams' starters seem to make similar amount of
errors, but LA's bench players and pitchers have made a lot more
errors than the Giants' bench and pitchers.

> yet the Giants are
> well below LA in defense efficiency rating

Probably because LA has turned 44 double plays while the Giants only
turned 30.

> and because of the piss
> poor start to the season, far behind in total runs scored.

I suspect more often than not the bums score more runs than the
Giants anyway, at least in recent years.

> it's still early and the signs that Belt, Panik, Nunez are coming
> out of the dark ages. SP is starting to act like SP and although
> the pen has been "shaky", it has had signs of brilliance lately.
> It's for these reasons I'm being realistically optimistic... :)

I sure hope you're right! :-)

[Awesome Giants]

ari...@bellsouth.net wrote:

> I like Arroyo in the field, he seems to have quick hands, and his
> range seems to be better than what is reported. Essentially the
> giants have 3 drafted shortstops playing in the infield, with
> Crawford being the fielding stud, Panik and Arroyo were also
> shortstops. Even Morse was a shortstop in high school.

Posey played SS in college too, but there's no chance in hell he can
play major league SS. That goes to show you there's a world of
difference between college level and mlb level SS. Tons of drafted SS
became 2B and 3B, and utility players. Heck, sometimes even pitchers
and OF.

Oh, Joe Nathan was drafted as a SS too. Do you think he can play major
league SS? LOL.

As you said, even Morse played SS in high school. Need I say more? :-)

Very often a college team only has one guy good enough to make it to
the pros, and naturally that one guy is way better than all his
teammates, so there's a good chance he'd play SS for his team if he's
an infielder.

At the high school level, you almost always put your best athlete at
SS.